now that it looks like we will pull out of Iraq, should we first declare victory or defeat?
830365
When we pulled out  last time, we left a functioning government intact.  In this instance, we would be leaving a power vacuum that Iran could fill with their own brand of Muslim extremism.\n\nWe'll stick around for another 6 months and begin to draw down gradually while giving the Iraqi security forces achievable, but hard benchmarks.  We'll do the best we can to support them, but the relationship will look more like S. Korea than Puerto Rico.
710346
Whether we stay or pull out the consequences will be terrible.  This is a situation that is not capable of being won.  While we are there they are fighting each other as well as our occupation.  If we leave then they are fighting only each other.  There always will be fighting amongst themselves and it is up to them to resolve it.  We made a grievous error in invading their country but staying is only making it worse.  Our invasion launched a civil war, which probably would have came about sooner or later anyhow.  For us to remain there knowing that it is a no win situation is stupid.  All we're doing is losing more lives, both our soldiers and innocent Iraqis.  What I don't understand is how people condemn the Iraqis as terrorists yet want to remain there to "defend" them.
208077
no. the US should not pull all of the troops out of IRAQ right away. it should be a slow process while the iraqi govt learns how to handle the present situation on its own. by doing so, they will no longer need the US there and they will become a fully funtioning country that is able to defend its self.\nand im in the USMC
802275
Um, no.\nNo matter who rules the house we should not totally withdraw. No the liberals have an uphill battle, if they shun the troops and make their efforts pointless then the american people will be furious with them and good luck getting re-elected. Thats just not a smart move. The terrorist wont like us no matter what, thats plain and simple. They attacked america so many times no matter who was "leading in congress". Think the american hostages in Iran in the 80's, World Trade 1 in 1992, The attack of the USS Cole, World Trade 2 in 2001. There are too many people who hate us for so many reasons. Bottom line, we should get the job done. The only thing that says we are losing this war is the media, ask the Iraqi people, they see that the US wants to help, yeah they want us out as soon as possible, but they dont want us to leave too soon. At work do you leave work unfinished?
856741
I think that when the Reps say "winning," they mean having the insurgency (the people who took up arms to get the invaders, I'm sorry, I mean American troops out of their country) to realize that they will never be able to win and will surrender, giving way towards a peaceful (i.e. not violent) condition in Iraq where the Military can train the new military, rebuild the cities, and let the new prime minister enact his new laws, constitution, etc.\n\nThey are at a stalemate right now as the insurgents are also waiting for the US military to realize that they will never be able to win and will surrender, giving way for said insurgency to try to take over the prime minister and put one of their guys in power.\n\nThis stalemate could be forever (literally: have you heard of the 100-year war?); however, it could end tomorrow if the insurgency can give up.  (Which is what the Reps keep hoping for.)\n\nNow that the Reps are no longer controlling, they probably think of their election "losses" as a win.  Going to war was a mistake.  Now if we "pull out," we admit defeat and leave Iraq to the mercy of the insurgency.  But if we stay there, we could be hit with losses and make our sons and brothers kill innocents for years.  We never should have gone.\n\nBut now that the Reps are out, the ultimate blame for "losing" or staying and dying will fall on the Dems.
707275
I'd love to see our troops come home and they can , just as soon as your government can stand by itself .\nRight now , you have a lot of trouble because different factions want to rule the country . Some would be new dictatorships if they won .\nIf we pulled out , next week , you'd have a full blown civil war that would last for years . You could end up with someone a lot worse than Saddam .\nThe key is for all the people of Iraq to learn to live and work together as equals , not as Shia , Sunni and Kurds ,but as Iraqis .
709585
Go big.  We made this mess, we have a responsibility to clean it up.  We need to stabilize that region.  Walking away will only let the chaos we've already created escalate.\n\nIt was an incredibly stupid thing to do from the outset, going into Iraq.  Bush, and the people who supported him shouldn't be still calling the shots over there, based on their track record alone.  But, for the first time since the man took office, I find myself agreeing with him on one point.  It's a mistake to leave Iraq in this mess.  The entire region will implode. \n\nHowever, it's idiotic to say that troop levels over there are sufficient, they are woefully inadequate at best.   Big--overwhelmingly big, preferably--is the only chance we have at getting control.\n\nBTW--I've voted pretty much straight Democrat in all elections, this last one included.  The need for change in our leadership is obvious and necessary, but I believe we can't afford to compound the error we made (I say 'we' because over half of this country supported the invasion of Iraq, so much so that 'we' re-elected Bush for a second term) by leaving Iraq to it's fate.  We will never see the end of violence in that region if we don't get control of it now.  If we leave, and Iraq becomes a terrorist stronghold, how long do you imagine it will be until Israel is engaged?  Anyone fancy a nuclear war in your lifetime?\n\n\nArcticchick--you seem to have forgotten that convenient intelligence failures, coverups, and deliberate circulation of misinformation have been the main attribute of  GW Bush's administration.   Your selected excerpts do a fine job of implying that, despite the fact that their support was based on erroneous information, the Democrats are to blame for the Iraq invasion.  You demonstrate how well Bush & Co.'s tactics worked--and continue to work--on the segment of America's populace who refuse to acknowledge what terrible consequences have resulted from their support of this administration.
1123470
No.  we can't just pull out of Iraq before its own government is stable.  Then it would be another Vietnam.  If we just pick up and leave, the country will turn into a police state, much like Somalia did during the Clinton administration.
383073
No-is the simple answer.  To withdraw would be a sign of weakness-something which the American Military would not want to show.  Remember Vietnam.  But this would be the same for most countries-the UK wouldn't pull out either because of Iraqi resistance it just doesnt give a good impression.  And I would support them in their choice!!!
1059070
The U.S. is sort of in a bind in that it can't really win (the way we originally thought a win should look like) and we can't really leave (and have it look like we made mistake), so instead we'll phase out our troop levels over a period of years (10?) and continue to reassure the public that the Iraq government is able to handle things themselves and we're no longer needed, and it's anyone's guess how we'll explain the ongoing vioence.  How sad though for the families of fallen soldiers who may not see the ultimate worth in their sacrifices.
763511
good question. as it depends upon what part of the liberal front they are addressing. or at any given moment.  to one group they say pull out, to another they say add more troops, and yet to another they say a gradual exit.. which one do you think they really mean?  hard to say guess it depends on what day it is..
483570
I think you are probably right, that the outcome will be a defeat. The US government has forgotten what it took to win the peace after WWII.\n\nPresident Truman authorized the Marshall plan that rebuilt Europe and has ultimately led to the European Economic  Union. In the conquered countries, like Germany, the allied powers contracted the best possible civil servants and military officials for 5 year tours to establish civilian rule. They instituted effective martial law until the new German government was ready to take over. The German army troops were detained and retrained. War criminals were tried and justice was seen to be done.   \n\n\nUS forces are in an unwinnable position. Rumsfeld and Rice have no coherent plan on how to put Iraq back together. The military is fighting a holding action with no specified goal. The civilian government is in a war zone with no resources. \n\nThe peace will only be won if the US realizes that it takes more than money and troops to establish a working country with a workable constitution. \n\nI would say that if the Iraqi "insurgents" were being arrested and handed over to a criminal justice system then the peace has been won. Until then, with no civil direction, Iraq is going to bleed the US.
710993
The UK has already begun the retreat. I expect Australia and others to follow. We are too deeply entrenched to do exactly that very quickly. Democrats know this. We are likely the ones who will remain behind to help Iraq. \nThere are much deeper reasons aside from democracy for Maliki's call to remain in Iraq indefinitely. There are ties between Iraqi leadership begging us to stay, Saddam's death sentence, and Don Rumsfeld's resignation yesterday. Maybe something on the scale of Watergate from the Nixon era.
107463
When the mission is done, Iraq can defend its democratic state by itself, and we will not cause unrest and instability in the area by pulling out.\n\nAnd NOT a DAY sooner.
1184240
If I might ask, when exactly did anyone tell us to leave? Please give me a reference to a speceific report or news broadcast that says so.\n\nOk here is a quote from the article you were talking about, thank you! It was from Jalal Talabani as you stated who was the Iraqi President until the first election.\n\n"'We think that America has the full right to move some forces from Iraq to their country because I think we can replace them [with] our forces," Talabani said. "In my opinion, at least from 40,000 to 50,000 American troops can be [withdrawn] by the end of this year.'\n\n"That assessment differs dramatically from those offered by Bush and by U.S. military commanders in Iraq.\n\n"Bush has carefully avoided setting a timetable for reducing the number of U.S. troops in Iraq, currently about 140,000, and the Pentagon plans to maintain or slightly increase the force level in anticipation of an Oct. 15 referendum on Iraq's new constitution. White House officials say that Bush's strategy for eventually withdrawing troops hinges on Iraqis' approving the constitution and holding successful elections in December."\n\nYou are not wrong that he talked about some troops leaving. But it was not a matter of telling the U.S. to get out. Of course you knew that I would find an inaccuracy as you said in your message to me. But that doesn't mean you can't admit being slightly wrong and that maybe you can learn something, or you can just ignore me and forget about it.\n\nHere is the explanation. Talabani was making a suggestion that we COULD relieve our forces, not that we should, nor was he making a demand. He was going to replace them with American trained Iraqi forces anyway. So that wouldn't really change a thing. President Bush and he agreed that there should not be a rush or timetable placed on the matter and that they could make a decision about that when the time came. He said at that time that it would be well after the election. We are at that point and now we are close to pulling out that many troops.\n\nIt was a suggestion. We would like to leave just as bad as they would like us to not be occupying them any longer, but Abass said that he is afraid that if we leave too early, his peace efforts with the Palestinians, Isreal and the Hamas would cause the new Iraqi government to crumble.\n\nHopefully we will pull out soon!
644902
I would pull the troops out. I feel as long as we're out there getting killed in war the terrorists are winning. War soves none of this problem.
740166
The Iraq war will soon end with the withdrawal of Americans.  Iraq will have a disastrous civil war.