Is Trinitarian Ontology Coherent?
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There is more in heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy.\n\nEpistemological arguments for (or against) ontological claims are all doomed to failure, based simply on the nature of knowledge.  I believe it was Saint Patrick who held forth a shamrock and said "It is three, yet it is one.  It is a mystery."  And although I RATIONALLY agree with your question/statement, your philosophy, Horatio, leaves no room for mystery.  Which is why logical consistency never truly takes root in most human minds;  we desire the sublimation of rationality to the spiritual.\n\nFor the majority, it is not the logic of the belief, but the EXPERIENCE (illusory or otherwise) of the belief which is important.
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God is one God in three parts, God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. They are all every bit God but able to function separately. Don't worry about the De Vinci Code, it fiction.
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It is not canonical and it is, also, a gnostic "gospel".....\n\nIt does not change anything....
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The New Encyclopedia Britannica says:"Neither the word Trinity,nor the explicit doctrine as such,appears in the New Testament,dor did Jesus and his followers,intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament:'Hear, O Israel:The Lord our God is one Lord'(Deut.6:4)......The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and throught many controversies....By the end of the 4th century......the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since."-(1976),Micropaedia,Vol.X,p.126.\nThe New Catholic Encyclopedia states:"The formulation 'one God in three Persons'was not solidly established,certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith,prior to the end of the 4th century.But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title,the Trinitarian dogma.Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective".-(1967),Vol.XIV,p.299.\n\nDoes the Bible teach that the "Holy Spirit" is a person?\nSome individual texts that refer to the holy spirit("Holy Ghost,"KJ)might seem to indicate personality.For example,the holy spirit is referred to as a helper(Greek, Parakletos;"Comforter,"KJ;"Advocate,"JB,NE)that 'teaches','bears witness','speaks'and 'hears'(John 14:16,17,26;15:26;16:13)\nBut other texts say that people were "filled"with holy spirit,that some were 'baptized'with it or "annointed"with it(Luke 1:41;Matt.3:11;Acts 10:38)\nThese latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a person.To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches,all theses texts must be considered.What is the reasonable conclusion?That the first texts cited here employ a figre of speech personifying God's holy spirit,his active force,as the Bible aslo personifies wisdom,sin,death,water, and blood.\n\nThe Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father-Jehovah.They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ.But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.\nActs 7:55,56 reports that Stephen was given a vision of heaven in which he saw "Jesus standing at God's right hand".But he made no mention of seeing the holy spirit.\nAre the Father and Son one?\nMatt.26:39,RS:"Going a little farther he(Jesus Christ) fell on his face and prayed,'My Father,if it be possible,let this cup pass from me;nevertheless,not as I will,but as Thou wilt"(If the Father and the Son were not distinct individuals,such a prayer would have been meaningless.Jesus would have been praying to himself,and his will would of necessity have been the Father's will).\nJohn8:17,18,RS:"(Jesus answered the Jewish Pharisees)In your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true;I bear witness to myself,and the Father who sent me bears witness to me."(So, Jesus definitely spoke of himself as being an individual separate and distinct from the Father.)\n\nThere are so many more scriptures to disprove the Trinity that it would take me hours to go through them all.\nI USED to be a Catholic myself but a person who is really seeking to know the truth about God is not going to search the Bible hoping to find a text that he can construe as fitting what he already believes.\nHe wants to know what God's Word itself says.He many find some texts that he feels can be rad in more than one way,but when these are compared with other Biblical statements on the same subject their meaning will become clear.\nSo instead of just believing what the Priest or Pastor is telling you - look for yourself,reason on the scriptures,compare translations.....you will be surprised to learn all the untruths about God,His Son,His purpose for mankind etc that you are being taught.\n\nSo I must say it is a definite BIG THUMBS DOWN
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Study Modalism, not to be confused with Patripassianism.\n\nThe Trinity was a product of philosophy, and politics.  Theological Evolution.  You can see that early "trinitarians" rarely agreed with each other, and all held the 'heresy of sub-ordination'\n\nIt was not until the Council of Nicea that the trinity was given a 'solid' form that could be built upon by later councils.\n\nEusubius, from which we know most of what we know about Nicea, went to the council for the express purpose that modalists would not have a voice in the council, and they didn't.  He origianlly went to help arius, but had been misinformed about his beliefs, and then supported athanasius, since Esubius liked Origen's teachings.\n\nWhen studying modalism, remember that trinitarians oversimplify the doctrine and label it as patripassianism.  This comes soley from claims from thier ancient enemies such as Tertullian and Hippolytus.  \n\nModalism beleives that Jesus was the messiah, God manifested in the flesh, but that he WAS NOT God in three persons, but rather God in A person, who was the image of the invisible God.  The Logos, the plan God had in His mind since the Beginning.\n\nPatripassianism is the view that the Father died on the cross. I am not a modalist. God did not die on the cross, the human flesh died on the cross, not the divine Spirit that dwelt fully within Him.\n\nWere Praxeas and Sabellius patripassianists?  Really, NO ONE can say yes or no.  All we have are biased writings from thier enemies.  Historically, no one knows.\n\nThere is but ONE God.  Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
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The Triune God existing as God, the Father, God, the Son and God, the Holy spirit. They are three in one. This is called the Trinity of God. We humans have a hard time trying to understand this. We try to understand the Omnipotent, Infinite God using the tiny brain cells that He gave us. There are some things that we just need to accept and move on. Trying to understand God in all His glorious fullness with our pathetically finite minds is like trying to fly along with a fighter jet while riding on your little bicycle.
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Is It Clearly a Bible Teaching? IF THE Trinity were true, it should be clearly and consistently presented in the Bible.  A PROTESTANT publication states: "The word Trinity is not found in the Bible . . . It did not find a place formally in the theology of the church till the 4th century." (The Illustrated Bible Dictionary) And a Catholic authority says that the Trinity "is not . . . directly and immediately [the] word of God."—New Catholic Encyclopedia. The Catholic Encyclopedia also comments: "In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word  [tri'as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180. . . . Shortly afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian." The Encyclopedia of Religion admits: "Theologians today are in agreement that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity." And the New Catholic Encyclopedia also says: "The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the O[ld] T[estament]." "The early Christians, however, did not at first think of applying the [Trinity] idea to their own faith. They paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and they recognised the . . . Holy Spirit; but there was no thought of these three being an actual Trinity, co-equal and united in One."—The Paganism in Our Christianity. \nAlso, if the trinity is true why does Jesus say he is goiing to pray to his heavenly father, and that he doesn't do anying of his own initiative, but he does the will of his father that sent him...
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:}\nHe is he exist\nBy him all things consist.\nif we are it is because he is.
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The existential brightness of reason.
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Yes.  As in the Gospel of Thomas, or Lao Tsu's Tao Te Ching, or James Carse's Finite and Infinite Games, or Elain Pagels' Beyond Belief.\n\nI searched long an hard as a kid, and I'm still on my journey, though much nearer the end now.\n\nLook up some of my recent answers and see what you think.  Skip the math, of course.
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It has been said that all knowledge rests upon and arises out of an epistemological matrix that of itself forms the very context of comprehension, thus, all information systems require a comprehension of the nature of consciousness to reach their full potential.\n\nSo, the witness of any mentally selected event is thus simultansously both content and context and therefore trapped in the epistemological dilemna of duality itself - the mind can only 'know about' rather than truly comprehend essence, which is a nonverbal realization in which consciousness and essence are united as One. \n\nOur Soul is capable of so much more than we often imagine, as it is the essence and knows the essence - God within - and is where consciousness is superconsciousness. We can be exceptional liars to ourselves, often over-riding what our Soul tells us in the form of essence - essence that endures.\n\nTo believe we can, with simply our human consciousness, or with some method for tracking "holodynes" and manipulating them in some structured manner will give us the ability to actually discern a 'cause' of anything at all is really a grand dilusion and "pomposity of egotism".\n\nI agree that the infinite context of all that exists and of all possibility is obviously God. \n\nSo knowing God, by consciously connecting with our own Soul, knowing that God is Love, we find our way. And if we have no doubts, and we seek quidance from the "Great Spirit", we ask the right questions and make the right requests. And what we are to know will be shown to us that seek it diligently with all our hearts.
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I always like to look at the trinity like a very good pie.  You can imagine any kind of pie you want.  I particularly like blueberry myself.  Anyway, Imagine that pie is split evenly into three pieces.  The entire pie represents God.  The pieces are part of God.  The Father is one piece (The good parent.) The Son is one piece (The devoted child) and the holy ghost (the speaker)  \n\nNow, that said, there are not biblical reference for the trinity.  Really it is two in one. (Jesus and God)  The spirit is just a way for God to communicate.  \n\nWho do I believe is in control?  I give it to God right now.  If Jesus was here like he was at the beginning of the century I would give it to him but he is taking a break right now until he comes back.  At least that is what I believe.
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not me. i know the trinitarian doctrine doesnt line up with the word. the greatest of all commandments"hear o israel the Lord our God is one Lord,and thou shalt love the Lord..............
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Semantics, Pros, Etc.
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No. The father (GOD), the son (Jesus) and the holy spirit is one and the same. The Trinity is a hard thing to grasp for those who are not in the faith who does't believe it.
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1. If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.\n   2. If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.\n   3. If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.\n   4. If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.\n   5. Evil exists.\n   6. If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn't have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn't know when evil exists, or doesn't have the desire to eliminate all evil.\n   7. Therefore, God doesn't exist.\n   8. If God doesn't exist, hell can't exist either.
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The Universe as god, is Deism.