Tell me why Iraq won't end up like Vietnam. I say the outcome will be the same. Defeat and Shame. Agree?
483570
I think you are probably right, that the outcome will be a defeat. The US government has forgotten what it took to win the peace after WWII.\n\nPresident Truman authorized the Marshall plan that rebuilt Europe and has ultimately led to the European Economic  Union. In the conquered countries, like Germany, the allied powers contracted the best possible civil servants and military officials for 5 year tours to establish civilian rule. They instituted effective martial law until the new German government was ready to take over. The German army troops were detained and retrained. War criminals were tried and justice was seen to be done.   \n\n\nUS forces are in an unwinnable position. Rumsfeld and Rice have no coherent plan on how to put Iraq back together. The military is fighting a holding action with no specified goal. The civilian government is in a war zone with no resources. \n\nThe peace will only be won if the US realizes that it takes more than money and troops to establish a working country with a workable constitution. \n\nI would say that if the Iraqi "insurgents" were being arrested and handed over to a criminal justice system then the peace has been won. Until then, with no civil direction, Iraq is going to bleed the US.
571257
i don't know what the final outcome in iraq will be, but i have made this very point to people i know. i heard the same thing in 1969 myself. we were in an unpopular war then, gas prices were soon to rise, people, for the most part, were becoming disillusioned with our government, jobs were soon to start drying up and many were to move overseas, interest rates were starting to rise. sounds like deja vu all over again today, doesn't it?
806938
I think I understand what your asking.  Now that Democrats have control of congress and if the next election is successful for them.. what will happen?  I don't know that answer, but hopefully the next two years will have brought Iraq the independence it needs to govern and protect itself form the insurgents.  So that if we do pull out more aggressively all of this wont have been for nothing.
1008329
Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong here - but I think one of the major differences is that the Iraqi people ARE indeed willing to change their way of life, adopting democracy, whereas the Vietnamese actually wanted to keep their communist government in tact so there was no will on their part to change. That's why we lost then. I mean, going back to the basics, in order for things to change, the will must come from both parties, otherwise it'll just be communist and dictatorship all over again. If we come in Iraq forcing our democratic ways on them, that wouldn't make us any different from Hitler. I think the Iraqis are actually willing to adjust.
843423
Regardless of when the troops are withdrawn, there will probably be a Civil War. The present government that came into power with US help and backing realize this, hence they want the US to remain to secure their hold. The nation will probably end up with a strongman style dictatorship, like Saddam's but will be friendly to the US, at first anyway. However,I do not believe, the US is in there for oil, and definately not to win the "Hearts & Minds" of the Iraqies. They are mainly concerned about the 14 military bases being built, which will put the US & her client state, Israel within striking distance of all Arab & Persian territory. Although, I think your suggestion about letting the Iraqi people decide will fall on very deaf ears. If there was honesty involved about the war, I would think your idea would be the best way to let go of the tiger's tail...BUT??????????
632902
I think it will be like Vietnam where the US won militarily in terms of the number of enemy troops/insurgents that were killed(US lost 58,000 soldiers, Viet Cong lost over 1.5 million) but did not acheive its goal to stop the communist takeover of Vietnam. The US will no doubt kill dozens of insurgents for every soldier it loses in Iraq but public opinion in the States will eventually lead to troop withdrawal and the insurgents may overthrow the undefended and overwhelmed democratic government and install a theocracy like Iran
149728
No. This whole "democratic" Iraq issue is an exercise in futility. You are absolutely correct about how true democracy must be homegrown and spring up from within a nation and the hearts of its people. It cannot be imposed upon them from outside. They will resist, at all costs, they will resist.\n\nYou would have thought we'd have learned our lessons in Vietnam. Ho Chi Min originally wanted to make Vietnam a western-style democracy, basing its constitution on our own. He spent several years in the late 1950s in Paris trying to get western governments (including the US) to support him in this quest. He was rebuffed and ignored.\n\nAll he (and most Vietnamese) wanted was to throw off the chains of colonial rule (French, at the time) and be a free and independent nation. When the West balked, he turned to the East and ultimately embraced communism, alas. The Viet Cong sent the French packing and you-know-who stepped into the breach. You also know the rest of that sad story... \n\nWell, the circumstances are somewhat different (no threat of communism in Iraq, but plenty of even worse threats) but the end result will be the same. We will ultimately bring our soldiers home (and God knows they deserve to come home from that living hell) and Iraq, like Vietnam before it, will be left in utter chaos. \n\nHad we supported the uprisings against Saddam Hussein, which occurred naturally, even spontaneously, after the first Gulf War, NONE of this would be happening now. That swine would have been deposed and a representative government would have taken power (the Iraqis, particularly the Kurds, are an intelligent and capable people). It may not have been exactly what the US wanted, and oil contracts might not have been quite as sweet for Exxon-Mobil and the rest, but this insane nightmare of an endless bloodbath would not be continuing as it is now.\n\nI'll stop now. Except to say that I really do hate bush and his arrogant advisers for dragging us into this no-win situation. \n\n*sigh*\n\nNo wonder everyone hates us so much....
1028689
Yep. Correct.  \nBP announced today that they expect the Oil price to fall.\nThey didn't give a specific reason for this sudden announcement.\n& who do you ask?\nDo what I do & make up my own mind.\nWith the Insurgents a lil more fazed after head-honcho dead.\nThey'll be able to pump at full steam ahead instead of half-cocked of late.\n\n& once the OIL's all gone, I suppose it's too late to start debating re. the legality of the Iraq invasion again!
1000150
Gee i seem to understand that America had a few problems ourselves after the revolution.  I mean like a previous answerer stated Germany and Japan were not fixed overnight.  The biggest difference between Iraq and Vietnam is that in Vietnam the Democrats would not let the military fight to win, but were more interested in making money on our dead 58,000 American soldiers than doing what needed to be done to help democracy succeed, but now the Republicans, much to the anger of the liberals, have turned the conflict over to the military so that they can do what they need to in order to win.  In wartime someone always makes money, but something you need to keep in mind is that most of the major conflicts America has been involved in the Democrats have squarely planted us in them.  You are so concerned with getting us out of Iraq, and so worried about the soldiers dying there, because Bush got us there, but you have said nothing about the American, and allied troops that still get into firefights in Bosnia!!!  Clinton put us there 11 years ago, and we still rotate troops there, but no says anything about Clinton's screwup!!  If you are going to ask these kind of questions, then at least have the balls, and intestinal fortitude to ask about ALL the places AMERICAN troops are dying in!!!!!
890379
Iraq was not like it is now when Saddam was in power. Saddam was a threat to his own people, and those around him, period. World threat? Threat to America? Not by any thinking person's stretch of the imagination. We had to retaliate for 9/11 and a group of brilliant people decided Iraq was the path of least resistance after we topple their tyrant to install a democracy. Wishful thinking at its best, we are starting to see the worst. Things have degraded to their tribal levels split along religious sects. We invaded without understanding the culture and history of the region. Hatred and war are long time bed-partners in the middle-east. Just to keep the excitement growing we can now add extremely twisted, hate filled, religious fundamentalist zealots adding to the killing in the name of Allah.  Baghdad is eerily starting to look like Saigon. We won't need a strategy to get out, we'll need emergency evacuation.
932378
Unfortunately I don't think we'll be able to keep Iraq together now that sectarian violence has taken over the country. Iran is clearly helping the Shiite militias with resources as they are supporting Hezbolla in Lebanon. Like it or not we should be talking with the Iranians about this and other things. However even Sadr has lost control of the militias. There's just an ineveitable bottom that has to be hit before this thing wears out. I remember a similar situation in South Viet Nam. The South was corrupt and it's army unable to stand up to the North. As soon as we left it all fell apart. Iraq was a creation of the west. Rival ethnic groups held down by a merciless dictator. Bush and his advisors completely underestimated the divisons in that country. Sadam was like a cork in the bottle. Maybe an international force of non-western nations might be able to restore order but it would take hundreds of thousands more than we have there now. The current prime minister has to go and the interior ministry needs to be purged of the criminals and assassins using their positions to carry out personal vendettas. Twice in my lifetime the bright boys in Washington have tried this and twice they've failed. My Dick Cheney and his like will finally stop trying to refight the Viet Nam war.
1102041
I am a Vietnam veteran and this month I voted for the first time as a registered Democrat. I used to be a Libertarian but no longer can I sit on the sidelines saying both parties are evil. \n\nThe resolution passed says that we have to "stay the course in Iraq" or all the US lives we have lost there will have died in vain. That is like a gambler saying "I have to keep putting down bets or all the money I have lost so far will be lost in vain." \n\nIn truth, it is the Republican congress saying that THEY don't want to be like Johnson and Nixon and get blamed for losing Iraq like the aforementioned Presidents got tagged for losing Vietnam. In both cases, the war is not winnable. We went into Iraq on cooked up intelligence. There were no weapons of mass destruction. None. Sadam had already used them on his own people. We sold him the gas. We saw when he used it. There was no uranium and the Republicans knew that. That is why they outed Valerie Plame.\n\nAnd get this, somebody, please: Iraq had nothing at all to do with 9-11. Nothing. The guys flying the planes were mostly Saudiis. OK? Despite the waving the bloody shirt about 9-11, Iraq had nothing to do with it. Oh, that is so criminal to do. It is truly like yelling fire in a crowded theater.\n\nWe or our kids or grandkids will look back on this era and shudder. I hope we can look back on this era. I hope the history of this era will be open and not sealed away.
780107
I only listened to a little of his speech.  I thought that, overall, he is very conciliatory.  What was very concerning for me is the thought that the Democrats will in the next three to four years find a way to pull out of Iraq and leave it to chaos and eventual rule by Jihadists.  Unlike Vietnam, Jihadists are able and willing to attack us at home in the US.  Their goal is to convert or kill every man, woman and child. I don't want that fighting here.  I think it's time for me to take up shooting sports.
338009
Can't see America losing the war in Iraq. Reason, we're there and now it's too late to back out. Most likely we're going to be in Iraq and the middle east for at least 20 years if not longer. The overall goal is to bring democracy to the region. Not an easy task, since most there don't know what democracy is. America will suffer a humilating defeat if it backs out now. It fought to a draw in Korea, lost in Vietnam. Now if it withdraws, that's another lose. It's not going to happen. America doesn't want to lose its international superpower status. And withdrawing from Iraq could led to that.
786132
The USA is obsessed with the concept of world dominance. It has refused to  learn from history and its experience in Vietnam. It could not prevent Vietnam from being a communist  state. It had fueled Afghanistan crisis and now trying to dose it off. Withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan will not be that easy and the change of guard in White House will have least impact on taking such a decision.
1024061
The truth is it is the United States of America who is the real terrorist in Iraq.  We will end up like Vietnam. On the losing end.
743287
Just about all wars see major shifts in goals and tactics at some point making the original goals and tactics obsolete.  If we leave Iraq tomorrow the result would be a major power struggle resulting in a winner.  that winner will be the badest of the bunch and most likely hate the west.  We will leave him the 2nd largest oil reserves in the world.  He will spend that oil wealth on exporting terror with the best weapons money can buy.  We are part of this world we better have a force there!!