Is the trinity the truth or is it the biggest lie around today in the so called christian community?
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THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE "TRINITY"\n\n1st of all Jesus said: He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57.\n\nJesus’ being called the “only-begotten Son” (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18) does not mean that the other spirit creatures produced were not God’s sons, for they are called sons as well. (Ge 6:2, 4; Job 1:6) However, by virtue of his being the sole direct creation of his Father, the firstborn Son was unique, different from all others of God’s sons, all of whom were created or begotten by Jehovah through that firstborn Son. So “the Word” was Jehovah’s “only-begotten Son” in a particular sense,\n\nJesus is also “Mighty God” and “Eternal Father.” This does not mean that he usurps the authority and position of Jehovah, who is “God our Father.” (2 Corinthians 1:2) “He [Jesus] . . . gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” (Philippians 2:6) He is called Mighty God, not Almighty God. Jesus never thought of himself as God Almighty, for he spoke of his Father as “the only true God,” that is, the only God who should be worshiped. (John 17:3;\n\nDoes the Bible teach that all who are said to be part of the Trinity are eternal, none having a beginning?\n\nRev. 1:1; 3:14, RS: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him .  Why did God have to give Jesus the revelation, if Jesus is God?\n\nDoes the Bible teach that none of those who are said to be included in the Trinity is greater or less than another, that all are equal, that all are almighty? Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)\n\nJohn 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”\n\n1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven. \n\nA person who is really seeking to know the truth about God is not going to search the Bible hoping to find a text that he can construe as fitting what he already believes. He wants to know what God’s Word itself says. He may find some texts that he feels can be read in more than one way, but when these are compared with other Biblical statements on the same subject their meaning will become clear. It should be noted at the outset that most of the texts used as “proof” of the Trinity actually mention only two persons, not three; so even if the Trinitarian explanation of the texts were correct, these would not prove that the Bible teaches the Trinity.\n\nI COULD GO ON & ON WITH SCRIPTURES & EXPLANATIONS, BUT I THINK THIS ALREADY TO LONG FOR SOME PEOPLE.
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In Christianity the trinity is belived to be a mathimatical annomaliy. Instead of 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 (Father, Son, and Holy spirit) it is actually 100% for all three. The debate over free will versus destiny has existed since time began. I believe in a divine creator and His rule over my life, but I also believe in free will. To me it is another annomaliy in our reality. I believe we have 100% free will, but that we are also 100% bound to our destiny. I don't think it's one or the other, but rather both in a very complete way. \n\nWith that in mind we are divided in our aims and goals based on our relation with that source. Since we all carry the same creator and that creator gave us free will, we all take different paths. One leads to that creator, others don't. I would love it if pluralism applied to reality, but since all faiths say they are THE one, then they all can't be right. Especially with Christianity. Christ said "I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the Father except through the Son." In that scripture He is saying that you can only take one path to reach God and no other.\n\nImagine a city street with millions of pedestrains. Half of them are going in one direction and the other half are going in the oppposite direction. They are bumping and shoving and stumbling on to each other. This is the human experience. One group is traveling towards the creator and what is good, the other half is traveling away from the creator to satisfy their pride. Either way you travel you will have conflict and you will bump into others with different aims, goals, and destinies. What really matters is that you travel with kindness, love, and in the right direction.\n\nlightbringer1979@yahoo.com\n\nGodspeed\n\nP.S. Just one note on a comment above. The Muslims and Christians actually DO worship the same God. And both believe in Christ as well. It's just that Christians believe He is the son of God.
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IF THE Trinity were true, it should be clearly and consistently presented in the Bible. Why? Because, as the apostles affirmed, the Bible is God's revelation of himself to mankind. And since we need to know God to worship him acceptably, the Bible should be clear in telling us just who he is. \n\nFirst-century believers accepted the Scriptures as the authentic revelation of God. It was the basis for their beliefs, the final authority. For example, when the apostle Paul preached to people in the city of Beroea, "they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so."—Acts 17:10, 11. \n\nA PROTESTANT publication states: "The word Trinity is not found in the Bible . . . It did not find a place formally in the theology of the church till the 4th century." (The Illustrated Bible Dictionary) And a Catholic authority says that the Trinity "is not . . . directly and immediately [the] word of God."—New Catholic Encyclopedia. \n\nThe Catholic Encyclopedia also comments: "In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word  [tri'as] (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A. D. 180. . . . Shortly afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian."
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No.\n\n‘Christ according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the holy Ghost the third. Each of these three persons is God. Christ is his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both. The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten--just the same before as after. Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was an equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say before he existed, but he is of the same age as the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever can be more perfectly idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the Trinity.’\n\n - Col. Robert G. Ingersoll
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Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the second person in the "Holy Trinity". However, the very Bible which is used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are not drawn out of context: \n\n1. God is All Knowing... but Jesus was not.\n\nWhen speaking of the Day of Judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32 and Matt 24:36) But God knows all. His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own admission, did not know when the Day of Judgment would be, is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not God.\n\n2. God is All-Powerful... but Jesus was not.\n\nWhile Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own, but derived from God. He said, "Verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..." (John 5:19) Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30) But God is not only all-powerful, He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.\n\n3. God does not have a God... but Jesus did have a God.\n\nGod is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17) He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt 27:46) If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read "Myself, myself, why hast thou forsaken me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4) was he praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless, not as I will but as thou wilt." (Matt 26:36-39) Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own admission, and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped and prayed to another being as God, is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.\n\n4. According to the Bible, God is invisible to humans... but Jesus was flesh and blood.\n\nWhile thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that this could not be done with God when he said, " No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18) "Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." (John 5:37) He also said in John 4:24, "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen or heard God ant any time, while his followers both saw and heard him, is clear proof that Jesus was not God.\n\n5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him... but Jesus acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from his own.\n\nPerhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in John 14:28, "My Father is greater than I." When someone referred to him as a "good master" in Luke 18:19, Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God..." Further more, Jesus drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and cam
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The concept of the Trinity is often hard to grasp. In your question, you seem to show that you believe that the Trinity did not always exist. According to John 1, Jesus was with God, in God, and God from the begining, they were never seperate (except when Jesus took on the world's sins on the cross). in John 10, Jesus states that 'I and the father are one,' in John 10:30. The plainest biblical evidence for the Trinity falls in 1 John 5:7, where it says "7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. "\n\nEach Godhead (The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) are God, and the same one God, yet they are different. They each have their distinctive roles, yet are one unit.
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Being of the jewish  race they probably prayed to God as the jews are monotheistic based?Hear ye o Israel the lord God is one!says so in the Bible. check it out?Trinity was conceived at the Coucil of Nicea? I think?it explains the Father,Son,Holy Ghost most Christians believe in?One reason Muslims have a problem with Christians is their belief in a triune god[3 godhead]as they believe in Allah as the one true god?
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NO, NO\n\nWhat is the origin of the Trinity doctrine?\nThe New Encyclopædia Britannica says: “Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord’ (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since.”Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.\nThe New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.”\nIn The Encyclopedia Americana we read: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching\nDoes the Bible agree with those who teach that the Father and the Son are not separate and distinct individuals?\nMatt. 26:39, RS: “Going a little farther he [Jesus Christ] fell on his face and prayed, ‘My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.’” (If the Father and the Son were not distinct individuals, such a prayer would have been meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself, and his will would of necessity have been the Father’s will.)\nJohn 8:17, 18, RS: “[Jesus answered the Jewish Pharisees:] In your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true; I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness to me.” (So, Jesus definitely spoke of himself as being an individual separate and distinct from the Father.)\nDoes the Bible teach that all who are said to be part of the Trinity are eternal, none having a beginning?\nCol. 1:15, 16, RS: “He [Jesus Christ] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth.” In what sense is Jesus Christ “the first-born of all creation”? \n, the expression “the firstborn of” occurs upwards of 30 times in the Bible, and in each instance that it is applied to living creatures the same meaning applies—the firstborn is part of the group. “The firstborn of Israel” is one of the sons of Israel; “the firstborn of Pharaoh” is one of Pharaoh’s family; “the firstborn of beast” are themselves animals.\nDoes the Bible teach that none of those who are said to be included in the Trinity is greater or less than another, that all are equal, that all are almighty?\nMark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)\n1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven. So the truth here stated applies to the relationship between God and Christ in heaven.)\nDoes the Bible teach that each of those said to be part of the Trinit
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There is no mention of the " Trinity" in the Bible, I hate to admit that so many Christians have been brainwashed into beleiving it is but it is an unscriptural representation of God. If more people would read the good book themselves they wouldn't be so easily fooled. And to all the people that are using  the name Elohim to infer a Trinity, Elohim is a name of God in reference to his role as Creator. I suspectt he concept of the Trinity is an absorbed pagan belief like so many others in modern day Christianity.
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Gnosticism agrees with the teachings of just about every religion in the world.  Orthodox Christianity is the only one with that dying for sins nonsense.  I don't know, in my opinion the truth is within us, not within a book, if it is in us all, it would be universal.  The actual words of Jesus are universal.  All that other nonsense came from Paul and is not.
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The Bible does not contain the word Trinity. However, the Holy Trinity is hinted at repeatedly in both the Old and New Testaments. \n\nThe early Christians prayed and struggled over these hints for a couple of centuries. The concept of the Holy Trinity (three persons in one God) was mainstream Christianity in 325 A.D. at the Council of Nicaea and our belief is expressed in the Nicene Creed from that council:\n\nWe believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen. \n\nWe believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him, all things were made. For us and our salvation, He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day, He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures: He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. \n\nWe believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen. \n\nWith love in Christ.
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honestly if you think the trinity was just added to the bible at nicea .. dont you think they would have put the word trinity in the bible ?? \n\nPlease recognize that this question is for thoughtful consideration and polite responses. Please try to be acedemic in your answer approach. Thanks
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There are no false doctrines. Every one of our teachings and beliefs is completely in harmony with God's Word, the Bible. God leads his people progressively and has, at times, had to readjust the thinking of his people to fully understand Bible truths. In the early days of God's earthly organization it was believed, like so many still wrongly believe today, that holiday celebrations like Christmas honor God. It was also wrongly believed, by some, that the end would come at a particular time. However, as the scriptures state in the book of Psalms, the truth is like a light that gets brighter and brighter as the end draws closer. So in that way, certain teachings had to be realigned with the scriptures and people had to be readjusted in their thinking. As a whole, however, the very basic truths remain unchanged and Jehovah's Witnesses still acknowledge the Bible's stand that Jehovah God is Almighty God alone, not some part of a false religious trinity, and that Jesus Christ is the now-reigning king of God's heavenly kingdom, soon to bring vengeance upon this system of things controlled by Satan.
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Uh, no. \n\nThe concept of a trinity is nothing new. While the word itself isn't in the Bible, the concept was around for a long time before; that's why and how the apostles understood it even without it being specifically named. But it doesn't work at all the same as any mythology.\n\nThere's a blog on my 360 that explains it in detail, but there's too much to include here and still hope to be literate. Anyway, the idea has nothing to do with Adam, Abraham, or Moses. The message of Jesus is hardly to worship 3 gods, nor is it to worship the trinity. He did say to worship the God who sent him, but made very clear comments about his own deity.
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The New Encyclopedia Britannica says:"Neither the word Trinity,nor the explicit doctrine as such,appears in the New Testament,dor did Jesus and his followers,intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament:'Hear, O Israel:The Lord our God is one Lord'(Deut.6:4)......The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and throught many controversies....By the end of the 4th century......the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since."-(1976),Micropaedia,Vol.X,p.126.\nThe New Catholic Encyclopedia states:"The formulation 'one God in three Persons'was not solidly established,certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith,prior to the end of the 4th century.But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title,the Trinitarian dogma.Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective".-(1967),Vol.XIV,p.299.\n\nDoes the Bible teach that the "Holy Spirit" is a person?\nSome individual texts that refer to the holy spirit("Holy Ghost,"KJ)might seem to indicate personality.For example,the holy spirit is referred to as a helper(Greek, Parakletos;"Comforter,"KJ;"Advocate,"JB,NE)that 'teaches','bears witness','speaks'and 'hears'(John 14:16,17,26;15:26;16:13)\nBut other texts say that people were "filled"with holy spirit,that some were 'baptized'with it or "annointed"with it(Luke 1:41;Matt.3:11;Acts 10:38)\nThese latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a person.To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches,all theses texts must be considered.What is the reasonable conclusion?That the first texts cited here employ a figre of speech personifying God's holy spirit,his active force,as the Bible aslo personifies wisdom,sin,death,water, and blood.\n\nThe Holy Scriptures tell us the personal name of the Father-Jehovah.They inform us that the Son is Jesus Christ.But nowhere in the Scriptures is a personal name applied to the holy spirit.\nActs 7:55,56 reports that Stephen was given a vision of heaven in which he saw "Jesus standing at God's right hand".But he made no mention of seeing the holy spirit.\nAre the Father and Son one?\nMatt.26:39,RS:"Going a little farther he(Jesus Christ) fell on his face and prayed,'My Father,if it be possible,let this cup pass from me;nevertheless,not as I will,but as Thou wilt"(If the Father and the Son were not distinct individuals,such a prayer would have been meaningless.Jesus would have been praying to himself,and his will would of necessity have been the Father's will).\nJohn8:17,18,RS:"(Jesus answered the Jewish Pharisees)In your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true;I bear witness to myself,and the Father who sent me bears witness to me."(So, Jesus definitely spoke of himself as being an individual separate and distinct from the Father.)\n\nThere are so many more scriptures to disprove the Trinity that it would take me hours to go through them all.\nI USED to be a Catholic myself but a person who is really seeking to know the truth about God is not going to search the Bible hoping to find a text that he can construe as fitting what he already believes.\nHe wants to know what God's Word itself says.He many find some texts that he feels can be rad in more than one way,but when these are compared with other Biblical statements on the same subject their meaning will become clear.\nSo instead of just believing what the Priest or Pastor is telling you - look for yourself,reason on the scriptures,compare translations.....you will be surprised to learn all the untruths about God,His Son,His purpose for mankind etc that you are being taught.\n\nSo I must say it is a definite BIG THUMBS DOWN
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Truth is true whether we understand it or believe it. You said yourself, something is true or it isn't. It can't be both. People are fallible. Nobody has perfect understanding. All we can do is share what we believe to the best we understand it. God communicates through imperfect people, through nature, through the Bible. He will be found if you look for Him. But there is still some mystery to it. It requires faith, not every question has an easy answer
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The reality of the trinity appeared before the Catholic Church. The following is a Messianic prophesy. Note that the speaker is saying He is both the beginning and the end (ie from eternity).\n\n"Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His SPIRIT have sent ME." - Isaiah 48:16\n\nNow a good question to ask yourself when reading the New Testament, "Who raised Jesus from the dead?"\n\nGod raised Jesus according to Acts 3:15.\n"..and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses."\n\nAs well as in Acts 13:30.\n"...God raised [Jesus] from the dead."\n\nBut hold on, Romans 8:11 said the Holy Spirit raised Jesus.\n\n"...the Spirit of [God] who raised Jesus from the dead..."\n\nThen again, it also reads that Jesus raised Himself in John 2:19-21 and again in John 10:17-18.\nJesus said, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." \n“I lay down my life that I may take it up again…  I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again"\n\nSo either we have a Trinity that just proves we are dealing with a God who dwells in eternity without constraint to physical limitations, or a series of contradictions. You make the choice, but choose wisely, eternity rests in your decision.\n\nThe following is taken from my study at http://tinyurl.com/phllk\n\nOne concept that both Jews and Christians can agree on is that God is light, and in Him is no darkness. His light is unapproachable.\n\n“…the Lord shall be unto you an everlasting light, and your G-d your glory.” - Isaiah 60:19 \n\nWhen the Jews look at this light, they proclaim that God is a solitary white light. The Christian looks at this same light and agree, God is indeed a solitary white light, but hold up three fingers and add the following caveat, “technically, He is made up of three colors.” This then offends the Jewish concept of what they see before them. \nFor those who do not understand the physics of light, look at a computer monitor with an empty file up on your word processor. You see a white page. Did you know that white light does not exist as a singular source? White light is actually an equal intensity of three primary colors. Take a magnifying glass to your computer monitor, look closer and you will see a cluster of red, green and blue phosphors, these are the primary colors. Their close proximity to one another creates the illusion of white. This cluster would be translated into Hebrew as echad, or a compound unity. As seen in the Hebrew Shema, “...the Lord is one [echad].”