Is anyone aware of a book explaining Mormonism that is unbiased; i.e. not written by a Mormon?
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Check out this website:\n\nhttp://www.religioustolerance.org\n\nIt is full of unbiased information on a whole lot of different religions.
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The book for explaining God's salvation plan is in the Bible. The Book of Mormon will not have this because Mormons are not a\nchristian religion. Although they acknowledge Jesus, they consider Him either a prophet or just one of many different gods, which they believe they themselves will become some day.\nPeople confuse Mormons' good works and family values with being a christian religion. Christians base their salvation on Christ's life sacrificed as the atonement for sins. Because He is God's son and therefore holy, Christ was the perfect sacrifice and part of God's plan from the start to redeem mankind from sin. There is only one God, not many, Within that Godhead are    three persons - the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, which is a mystery to many.  Belief or trust in Christ's sacrifice as the atonement to cover our repented sins is the basis for our salvation and eternal life. These are the main tenets of \nthe Christian faith which Mormons do not embrace. Several places in scripture have words from Jesus, Paul and John warning against adding or changing the inspired words of God.The subtitle on a "Book of Mormon" that I received on a tour of the Mormon premises in Salt Lake City reads "Another Testament of Jesus Christ". The one and only reliable source of truth is the Bible.
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Thankyou so much for your voice of justice.\n\nIt was not unusual to be bashed. Most people just not educated enough, but worst yet, some just do not respect other people.\n\nBut we will not be discourage. I'm sure there is people like you who can be fair. and we will present the correct truth about LDS when ever its necessary.
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Mormonism teaches that God used to be a man on another world and that he became a god by following the laws and ordinances of his god on his home world.  He brought his wife to this world, a woman he had married on the other world.  She is, essentially a goddess.\n     In his present god-state, he rules our world. He has a body of flesh and bones.  Since god and his wife are both exalted persons, they each possess physical bodies.  In their exalted states as deities, they produce spirit children that grow and mature in the spiritual realm. The first spirit born was Jesus. Afterwards Lucifer was born along with the rest of us. So, Mormonism teaches that we all pre-existed in the spirit realm having been produced from the union of god and his goddess wife.  Therefore, we all existed in spirit form before coming down down and entering the bodies of human babies that are being born on earth. During this ‘compression' into the infant state, the memories of their pre-existence is 'veiled.' \n      God the father, who is called Elohim, was concerned for the future salvation of the people on earth. In the heavenly realm, the Father had a plan for the salvation of the world. Jesus endorsed the Father's plan. Lucifer did not. Lucifer became jealous and rebelled. In his rebellion he convinced a large portion of the spirits existing in heaven to side with him and oppose god. God being more powerful then they, cursed these rebellious spirits to become demons.  They can never be born in human bodies.  \n      The remaining spirits sided with God.  Since they chose the better way, when it comes time for them to live on earth, they have the privilege of being born in races and locations that are relative to their condition and choice made in the spirit realm.1\n      In the Mormon plan of salvation there needed to be a savior: Jesus. But Jesus was a spirit in heaven. For him to be born on earth, Brigham Young the second prophet of the Mormon church said that instead of letting any other man do it, God the Father did it with Mary. He said that the birth of our savior was as natural as the birth of our parents. Essentially, what this means is that Brigham Young taught that god the father came down and had relations with Mary, his spirit daughter, to produce the body of Jesus.  Though many Mormons will not entertain such incestuous thoughts about God and Mary, this is what Brigham Young taught and as far as we know, this has not been denied by the Mormon church.\n     Nevertheless, Jesus was born, got married, and had children.2  He died on the cross and paid for sins -- but not on the cross only.  According to Mormonism, the atonement of Christ was not only on the cross.  It began in the Garden of Gethsemane before he went to the cross. \n      In Mormonism, men and women have the potential of becoming gods. President Lorenzo Snow said, "As god once was, man is. As God is, man may become." In order to reach this exalted state of godhood, a person must first become a good Mormon, pay a full ten percent tithe to the Mormon church, follow various laws and ordinances of the church, and be found worthy.  At this point, they receive a temple recommend whereupon, the Mormon is allowed to enter their sacred temples in order to go through  set of secret rituals: baptism for the dead, celestial marriage, and various oaths of secrecy and commitment. Additionally, four secret handshakes are taught so the believing Mormon, upon entering the third level of Mormon heaven, can shake hands with god in a certain pattern. This celestial ritual is for the purpose of permitting entrance into the highest level of heaven.3 For those who achieve this highest of heavens, exaltation to godhood awaits them. Then, he or she, will be permitted to have his or her own planet and be the god of his own world and the Mormon system will be expanded to other planets.
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The book of Mormon is a book that according to the original title page Joseph Smith claimed to have authored. It was later changed to translated.\nHe claimed that golden plates were given to him by an angel named Moroni (hence Mormon) the book tells a story of a Jew living in Jerusalem about 600 BC who was left behind when the first captivity took place. As the story goes he seems unaware that all of the educated and skilled Hebrews had already been taken into captivity. He did not accept the teachings of the prophet Jeremiah but rather left Jerusalem and migrated to the Americas. He along with those in his party and a previous group who had also migrated there became what we know of as the American Indians, They allegedly built cities had all kinds of enterprise, agriculture, architecture and commerce etc (no archeological evidence exist for any of this,) they lived for another 600 years without leaving any evidence of their existence, then they were visited by Jesus Christ who had just been crucified in Jerusalem. Jesus spent much of the 40 days he was on earth between his resurrection and ascension here in America with them. A war between good and evil ensued resulting in the death of all the good guys and the culture about which the book of Mormon was written, the story was preserved on golden plates, buried in a hill near where Joseph smith lived and later delivered to him.\n\nThough it was claimed to be an inspired work, much of the original work has been lost, many changes to the text have been made. God has even since changed his mind on some of its doctrines such as polygamy and membership for blacks.\n\nIt is not the only writing that guides and controls the Mormon faith. Even stranger things are taught in the Doctrine and covenants, and the pearl of great price. To make matters worse they believe that revelation continues today and therefore what they believe today may change tomorrow, if a group like the blacks sue or if a political issue like state-hood comes up.
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I am a member of the Church, but by no means a historian. I will do my best to answer your question.\n\nFirst, neither the Book of Mormon nor the Church say exactly where the events of the Book of Mormon occurred. While members generally understand that it is a record of a people from the Ancient America, most do not seriously study the geography. We read it, after all, for its spiritual content not its geography. \n\nThat said, many LDS members believe that the Book of Mormon lands are primarily located in Meso-America. This is largely due to the fact that its people had a highly developed system of writing. The whole face of its land was covered with buildings. The first six square miles of Tikal alone revealed hundreds of buildings. It is also known that there were numerous city states with populations reaching into the 10's of thousands. There is also ample evidence of warfare throughout the region, despite early claims by anthropologists that they were a peaceful people. Many other evidences exist supporting this theory. \n\nIn Mormon 6:6, it is recorded that all of the records and sacred items where buried in the Hill Cumorah, except for the Book of Mormon plates, which were given to Mormon's son Moroni. From that time, Mormon had over 30 years with the plates during which time he fled from the Lamanites, as they would put to death any Nephite who would not deny the Christ. Some members believe that Mormon brought the plates to their final burial in New York during that time. Which would explain the current lack of evidence in New York. Unfortunately, this is all speculation as we simply do not yet know all of these answers.\n\nI hope that this has, at least, offered some additional perspective on the subject. While I do not have "proof" of the Book of Mormon's exact Geography, it does not affect my testimony of its truthfulness. Living its doctrines have brought me closer to the Savior. I have studied it, pondered it, prayed about it, and have felt the confirming witness of the Holy Ghost that it is truly God's word.\n\nI am including a link to a very thorough study on the subject that may further clarify your question. Please let me know if you have further questions.\n\nhttp://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=jbms&id=305&previous=L3B1YmxpY2F0aW9ucy9ib29rb2Ztb3Jtb252aWV3LnBocA==
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Anti charge:\n\n...when questioned closely the witnesses said they never really saw the gold plates except when they were wrapped up or covered. They used terms like “vision” or “I saw them with the eye of faith.” ...Of these eleven total witnesses, over half apostatized from the Mormon church.... Joseph Smith and other Mormon officials are on record as calling his three main witnesses “thieves and liars.” In History of the Church Joseph Smith said, “Such characters as ... David Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery, and Martin Harris, are too mean to mention, and we would like to have forgotten them.” (McElveen, 48-49.)\n\nThe testimony of the Book of Mormon witnesses (Martin Harris, Oliver Cowdery, and David Whitmer) has been a thorn in the side of the critics for more than a century and a half (read this testimony). Many critics have tried to ignore their testimonies, while others have simply glossed over their significance. Those who have attempted to tackle the issue generally have relied on ad hominem arguments– attacking the credibility, honesty, or motives of the Three Witnesses.\n\nWhat possible motives might have driven the Three Witnesses to proclaim (and maintain) their testimonies? It is important to keep in mind that these three men never denied their testimonies. Throughout their entire lives they claimed that an angel of God had shown them the Book of Mormon plates. Trying times arose in each of their lives– persecution, loss of financial gains, etc. Each of these men separated themselves from the Mormon Church at some point in their lives for one reason or another. Some may think this shows that neither the Book of Mormon, nor the LDS Church are true. On the contrary, we point out the significance of the departure of the faith by these three men because despite their loss of membership, they continued to affirm their testimonies of the Book of Mormon. Both Martin Harris and Oliver Cowdery rejoined the Church at later dates, but although David Whitmer did not, he maintained to his death that his testimony was true. Think of the significance. Despite excommunicate, embarrassment, and ill-feelings, these men knew they had seen an angel; they knew they had heard a voice from heaven declaring the book’s authenticity; and they knew that the Book of Mormon was the word of God.\n\nSome may wonder why any of these witnesses could ever leave or be excommunicated from the Mormon Church. All men make mistakes, and these men were no different. The times in which these men lived were trying times, times when persecution against the Mormons was severe, to say the least. Did not Judas betray Christ? Judas, an Apostle chosen by the Lord himself? Are we to conclude therefore that Christianity is a fraud? Did not Peter deny Christ three times? Peter, who was the chief Apostle, and an Apostle who performed great works both during and after Christ’s ministry? Did not King David fall from favor in the eyes of God due to his sins?\n\nAs I see it, there are five possible motives for proclaiming their testimony, and possible motives for maintaining their testimonies.\n\nPossible Motives for Proclaiming Their Testimonies\n1) Wealth– If the Book of Mormon were to become a best seller, they might see lucrative returns by falsely testifying to have seen the angel and plates. Perhaps they even thought they would start an organization by which they could con thousands of people out of their money.\n\n2) Fame– The Three Witnesses might have hoped that people the world over would have been impressed by their false testimonies and might have shown them the adulation reserved for royalty.\n\n3) Power– Tied to both wealth and fame, the Three Witnesses might have falsely testified in hopes of gaining power of other people. Such power might secure them financially for the rest of their lives.\n\n4) Duped– They might have been duped by Joseph Smith or their own fantasies. Perhaps Joseph Smith was such a brilliant con artist that h
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I'm kind of flaky with my actual faith, but I've been an active Mormon for a while now.\n\nI have to say that we believe in a pre-mortal existence. That we were all present at the Council of Heaevn when God was establishing his plan of salvation. Satan and Jesus both had ideas about how to do it. Essentially, Satan wanted glory for himself and Jesus wanted to give Glory to God. In order to actually believe this though you have to have a better understanding of the basic principles that under lie the LDS Church.\n\nAnd to say, out right, that the Church is wrong or that the book of mormon is bogus is really childish. There are millions of LDS people in the world today, I find it hard to believe that all of them are wrong.\n\nAnd the Bible says that the Father and the Son are One. This doesn't mean LITERALLY, look at the gospels, Jesus approaches the Father as his Father. They are One in purpose - To bring to pass the immortal life of man, but they are two seperate beings. Even if you look at Hebrew texts they use to words for God - elohim and yahweh. The reason for this is because God is no one being. But like I said, you have to have at least an undersatnding of where the book of mormon came from.\n\nI don't bash other religions. There are so many times I want to say, "No, you've got it all wrong" but I don't because I understand that every person has every right to be what they are.\n\n-------------\nTo Asker:\nI don't believe in one religion. When I say "we believe" in the Mormon church I should have been saying "they believe" My whole philosophy on life is that every religion is right... for someone. That doesn't mean is right or wrong. My friend and I have discussed religion at length and I've come to my own conclusions regarding it. She's Muslim and I am whatever I am. I used to say this to my brother, "Belief in something is better then belief in nothing." That something specific of course referred to God. But anywho, not sure if that answered your question. I'm not totally with it. Perpetually tired.\n\n-------------\nTo Asker:\nMy brother is an atheist and I find it hard to believe in nothing. I think to know that this is all we have and after this is only death is a really hard thing to cope with. Maybe it's what really is, but I think it's better to believe that there is some greater purpose for this life. The Book of Mormon has it's own set of doctrine and beliefs set out. The purpose of it is to testify that Christ is the Savior and help us understand how to live righteously. I'd strongly encourage everyone to read it. My faith is unique. I believe the teachings of the LDS church are correct in some sense. I just have too many things I'm questioning in my life. I'm working on resolving them and I don't know where it is going. Sorry for the confusion. don't base your views on the LDS Church on me because I'm far from the best person. If a person wants to know more I'd suggest lds.org and you can actually read the conference talks etc. Or even talking to missionaries. Anywho, sorry.
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What bothers me most about Mormons are their false scriptures and false prophets. They have three false scripture-the book of Mormon, a Pearl of Great Price and Doctrines and Covenants. Starting with the founder Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and all their church presidents are false prohphets. What changes would I recommend. Throw out their scriptures, read their Bibles and forget about their prophets. \n\nA short summary for those not familiar with Mormonism\n\n\nThe Mormon church has some very unusual doctrines and beliefs and is considered to be a cult by most conventional Christian denominations.\n\nFor example, they believe their God has a number of heavenly wives. They believe God lives on a planet near a star names Kolob. They believe that they can become gods in the afterlife. They believe in a three tiered heaven which can only be reached through works including marriage to another mormon. Single Mormons can not reach this third level of their heaven. They believe their God used to be a man of flesh and bones and later became God. They believe God came down to earth as a man to impregnate the virgin Mary. \n\nThey believe Satan and Jesus are brothers. They believe everyone has two sets of parents-heavenly parents that create spirit babies and the earthly parents who create the bodies into which these supposed spirt babies go. The reason Mormons have so many children is that they believe that there are a surplus of spirit babies and so members are encouraged to have as many babies as possible to make a place for the spirit bodies to live.\n\nThey believe in marrying and baptizing all their dead relations into the Mormon church, hence the interest in geneology. They have also baptized most dead US presidents and a number of holocaust victims until they got quite a few complaints from members of the Jewish faith. \n\nThe church is very controlling and a person must pass an interview with a church official each year to get a temple recommend pass-this includes a promise of tithing, believing the prophets, work in the church, etc. \n\nThe mormon church was founded by Joseph Smith a local ne'r do well, who spent most of his time treasure hunting, and one day ta-dah he discovered supposedly gold plates from the angel Moroni in New York. The book of Mormon, as opposed to the Bible is historically and archeologically unsound. For example, Bethlehem and Jericho existed. Not so for the locations in the book of Mormon. Joseph Smith as a child made up lots of involved stories regarding Indians and other inhabitants of America. Not so surprisingly the same type of stories are in his book of Mormon, which he claimed came down on gold plates from God. According to Mormon doctrines dark skinned people were dark skinned because of a "curse" placed on them.
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mormonism is as illogical of not more than christianity
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Yes, and some dude wrote about it too.  What makes mormons a cult is the fact they believe American Indian fiction.  (that would make an interesting conversation - you: so I hear you believe in American Indian folklore  they: .... it's true, I KNOW it is!)
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Mormons may not like the idea of being labeled a cult, but that's what they are.\n\nOne of the primary red flags in Christianity is to ask about the Deity of Jesus Christ. \nJesus states repeatedly in the Gospels that He is God in fleshly form. He says it so emphatically that the Jews picked up stones to stone Him for such a blasphemous claim. \n\nChristian denominations all support Jesus' Deity, and they worship Him as God.\n\nMormons deny Jesus' Deity, and then also deny the accepted  doctrine of the Trinity of mainline Christian Churches. The Apostle Paul would take GREAT exception to Mormons claiming that they are Christian. \n\nOther Red Flags? \n*Exclusivity for salvation. They believe they are the only true church and the rest of us are going to hell. "Membership" in their church is required to get to heaven.\n*Exclusivity for interpreting the Bible. Without their unique explanations of the Bible, a person cannot fully understand the scriptures. Therefore, they added books to the scriptures to further explain God's plan. (additions and subtractions to or from are clearly prohibited in the Bible.) \n\nI wonder what the Angel Moroni (source of Joseph Smith's Golden Plates) would have to say to Paul?
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Please have a look here: \n\nPurpose of life: \nhttp://www.mormon.org/ \n\nhttp://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,792-1,00.html
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That a girl, keep up the good fight. It's funny to watch people respond. They give you a link to a lying anti-mormon video, and expect that it will change your mind. Ha! People like that don't rely on faith. \n\nSome of those who make it their mission to attack the church believe that they are honest. They take the stand which they believe their conscience requires. There are many more, who feel that the Mormon church deserves their contempt. These people do not feel constrained to stick with the truth. Many misrepresentations and falsehoods are deliberately used if it achieves their objective of further discrediting the LDS church.\n\nMany people do not feel that a just God would allow some of the evils which are so prevalent. Or they may also question why a loving Father doesn't answer our questions in a more straightforward and direct manner. But they overlook the essential ingredient in the Plan of Salvation, that we need to choose for ourselves what is right. And that choice can not be too simple or we haven't actually chosen, we have simply picked the obvious. How we choose will be built upon faith that we are doing the right thing. Hugh B. Brown has said, "Man cannot live without faith, because in life's adventure the central problem is character-building--which is not a product of logic, but of faith in ideals and sacrificial devotion to them."\n\nI believe that the Lord continues to keep the information we have balanced. If the opposition is getting too strong then he will reveal additional knowledge that will build faith. If a testimony can be built only on logic, then he will allow the adversary to add some additional information to encourage study, soul searching and prayer. The type of knowledge we gain may also be geared to our level of understanding. The stronger challenges might come to those who have the stronger testimonies. There are those who have as their goal to present attacks against the church that will be stronger than the testimonies of those to whom they are speaking. It is my goal to provide an answer to those critics. Let us realize that the critics will be there, but we need to be balanced in our understanding. Many criticisms can actually build faith if they are correctly understood. With the information available we can either build faith or create doubt depending on the perspective we use to analyze the data.
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I'm a Mormon--I haven't seen any of the episodes, I wouldn't mind checking it out but I just don't get HBO. \n\nIt is unfortunate that the show, whether intentionally or not, draws lines between Polygamist groups in Utah and the official LDS (Mormon) church. Any degree of research or life experience would show you that the two are very separate. The LDS church is intricately structured with an effective leadership hierarchy. It is not as though a single Mormon church group could decided to practice or support polygamy without any higher up leadership finding out. If they do anything so far out of line, they would be excommunicated. In that respect, the LDS church exercises nearly complete control over officially sponsored doctrine and practices to the individual church level. If you had the chance to see this process in action--it would be much easier to understand. \n\nWith this in mind, the highest LDS leadership over 100 years ago decreed that Polygamy was no longer needed and it's practice was to end. Today, that stance is even more firm. I have complete faith that any person who is a member of the official LDS church will be excommunicated if they practice polygamy. \n\nWith that all said, yes the Mormon church did practice polygamy. It is not a secret, however we do try to distance ourselves from it today since for one it is no longer in effect, and for another Polygamist groups aren't usually very pleasant for PR and we simply have no relation to them, therefor it is unfair to be associated with them. \n\nBut do take this in context. Mormons have a history of Polygamy. So do Christians in general if they believe in the Old Testament. So do the Jews and so do Muslims. So you can say what you want, but you practically can't be religious if you want to have a real argument against polygamy in religious life.
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lol I used to be anti- mormon and trust me this post wont change there ways! lol they have heard rumors and been to sites such as \nCurt van den Heuvel's Page. Deals with the Book of Mormon, history and various other subjects.\n\nTough Questions For Mormons. Questions that Mormons are supposed to be having difficulty with.\n\nExMormons Page. Phenomenal links to the anti-Mormon issues. Quite comprehensive and well done in my opinion. \n\nH. Michael Marquardt's Mormon History Homepage. A well done anti-Mormon page of historical research into Mormon History, the Book of Abraham, etc.\n\nOn the Book of Abraham Papyri. Discusses the classic 1968 anti-Mormon stance against the Joseph Smith Papyri and Book of Abraham.\n\nMore Tough Questions For Mormons. Apparently Mormons are unable to answer these questions.\n\nMark D. Champneys ExMormon Christian Site.\n\nEd Decker, Saints Alive in Jesus.\n\nMormonism Research Minstry\n\nJerald and Sandra Tanners Lighthouse Ministry\n\nWatchman Ministry\n\nUtah Missions\n\nBerean Christian Ministries\n\nChristian Apologetics and Research Ministry\n\nProblems With Mormonism\n\nInstitute For Religious Research\n\nRecovery From Mormonism\n\nHarder Questions that Mormons Can't Answer\n\nRPCMan Anti-Mormon Pages\n\nA Closer Look at Mormonism\n\n \nthey are not interested in sites such as\n\nFAIR (Foundation for Apologetic Information and Research) A site near and dear to my heart. Outstanding articles, and a fabulous Message Boards to learn everything you need to about Mormonism, the history, doctrines and ideas and ideals, hopes, fears, etc.\n\nFARMS Homepage. The clearinghouse of scholarly information on the LDS scriptures and history. Updated news in the LDS scholarly community of events as well.\n\nSHIELDS Scholarly Website. Shields is a scholarly rebuttal of critical views against Anti-Mormonism, with updated news events. A well done site for the LDS community. Outstanding correspondence between FARMS scholars and anti-Mormons, as well as Evangelical Christians.\n\nJeff Lindsay's Book of Abraham Page. Deals with the rolls of Abraham Papyri, the length of the rolls, how much of the papyri that Joseph Smith do we now have today? etc., etc. Very well done. Rather long, because there is a lot of information here. Talks of Facsimile #2, Enoch's Pillar, etc. also. Nice information for those confused by the anti's on this subject. Truly one of the remarkable sites on the Internet!\n\nJeff Lindsay's Book of Mormon Evidences Page. An excellent site for Book of Mormon information. Many nice links also. Very nice!\n\nZions Lighthouse Message Boards - This is THE place to go for discussions of all aspects of Mormonism with Mormons, non-Mormons, Anti-Mormons, and a mix of absolutely everyone else. \n\nRussell Anderson's LDS page Lightplanet (click here) is also a very good site. Loads of great information here.\n\nBarry Bickmore's Early Christianity and Mormonism Page. Simply a must look at for information on early Christianity with many invaluable links! A very well done and scholarly site. One of the most complete sites on early Chrisitianity along with Arden Eby's.\n\nMike Ash's Book of Mormon Evidences. Nice site discussing the flora and fauna of the Book of Mormon, and dealing with various problems the Book of Mormon supposedly has, such as plagiarizing the Bible, cement, horses, etc.\n\nPacumeni's Rebuttal of the Tanner's Page. Pacumeni is not one to take lightly as he demonstrates rather well the weaknesses of the Tanner's research into Mormonism. Well done page.\n\nBrant Gardner's Scholarly Mesoamerican Research. Brant's self-published papers on Mesoamerican archaeology and history. Very nice, and quite scholarly, as Brant is a Mesoamerican scholar.\n\nNick Literski's LDS Temples Page. Nick is having fun with this devotional, yet scholarly and tastefully done page, and I can't blame him. A very nice site, well worth looking into.\n
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I am not a Mormon, but in the studies I have done, I have found that Mormons believe in the Torah and the NT>  The problem is, they believe in it so long as it is correctly interpreted...by the leaders of the church.  Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, said that the Bible and all it's teachers were corrupt.  He claimed to have been given a new testament of Jesus Christ.  The Mormons use th Book of Mormon and The Pearl of Great Price as their ultimate authority on everything, including the OT and NT.  There were literally thousands of errors in the original Book of Mormon when Joseph Smith recieved the Divine revelation.  Those have been corrected, for the most part.  There is also the contradictions of scripture and revelation that have taken place since then.  At one point, the prophet, Joseph Smith and then the presidents of the church...Brigham Young, etc., stated as prophecy that Mormons will practice polygamy...that this was a commandment that shall be everlasting.  After the US government told them that they will abandon that belief or get kicked out of Utah and the US, a new, everlasting commandment, came down from God to the president of the church saying you shall not commit polygamy.  I hate it when gods are afraid of the gvernment. ;)  Sorry, my Christian bias came through there.