I'm totally stuck on what I think about this whole situation. I think building walls and kicking all of them out is totally Xenophobic and against the ideals that America was built on. However they do take jobs that, since we have a free market, would naturally go to americans. Also (trying not to make a blanket statement) most are low-education/low-income, and use the governments money that could be used to support actual citizens. My capitalist side wants to keep them, but my patiriotic one wants them out. HELP!!
131679
ILLEGAL ALIENS in America are here only because they are GUILTY of CRIMINAL VIOLATION  of our FEDERAL LAWS, Jumping our borders and living in a shadowy underground economy. They are morally culpable for shoving aside those who adhere to the law and enter these United States in orderly and Legal Fashion. Since when do criminals and cheaters receive pride of place for the blessings of liberty, over those honestly, earnestly and faithfully seeking to become American citizens? \n\nPresident Bush has called for a reasonable and civil debate over the issues of border security and immigration reform. But the American people understand there can be no responsible immigration reform UNTIL OUR BORDERS ARE SECURE. “Guest worker” amnesty programs ARE NOT a part of border security. Amnesty is not the answer. To grant amnesty to these trespassers is to say "You crossed our borders ILLEGALLY, You BROKE OUR LAWS and now we are REWARDING you with U.S. Citizenship -- Congratulations!" \n\nThis is unacceptable. \n\n To illustrate the absurdity of a "comprehensive" approach to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS , and the more radical of the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT  advocates who are proponents of an "open borders" policy. We don't take a comprehensive, humane approach with drug dealers because they are breaking our laws and causing great damage to this country by poisoning our children. Similarly, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS  violate our laws and Poison our system of Economics by TAKING JOBS  from American Workers, Keeping WAGES ARTIFICIALLY LOW, and Sucking MILLIONS of Dollars of TAXPAYERS MONEY out of our Welfare and Medical Systems. \nNot To Mention The Fact That A Majority Of ILLEGAL ALIENS Live And Work In This Country And Then Send Their Money Back Home To Their Families (Whatever Nation Their Families Live In) Therefore DRAINING The Economy Even Further. \nWhen The US Dollar Leaves The US... Its GONE From The American Economy. \n\nSome Will Argue that there are jobs Americans simply won't do, so that the importation of foreigners is essential. Whether these foreign workers are ILLEGAL ALIENS,  guestworkers, or permanent Legal Immigrants is a detail to be worked out by us, the argument goes, but our need for them is unchanged.Even many opponents of the proposed Bush Amnesty assume this to be true, leading them to propose new and improved guestworker programs, with provisions for stricter controls against Permanent Settlement, greater incentives to return, tighter enforcement against Unscrupulous Employers, etc. As well-meaning as such efforts may be, the basic assumption is false — \n\nThere is simply no economic reason to import FOREIGN Workers.If the supply of FOREIGN Workers were to dry up (say, through actually ENFORCING the immigration law, for starters), employers would respond to this new, tighter, labor market in two ways. \n\n1: One, they would offer HIGHER Wages, INCREASED Benefits, and Improved Working Conditions, so as to recruit and retain people from the remaining pool of workers.\n\n2:At the same time, the same employers would look for ways to eliminate some of the jobs they now are having trouble filling. The result would be a NEW Equilibrium, with Blue-Collar Workers making somewhat Better Money, but each one of those workers being more productive.\n\nMany people fear the first part of such a response, claiming that prices for fruits and vegetables would skyrocket, fueling inflation..NOT TRUE..Labor accounts for only about ten percent of the retail price of a head of lettuce,  so even doubling the wages of pickers would have little noticeable effect on consumers.\n\nThis Is For F**KIN TWINNKY(Above)\n\nSeveral people told me they used to do the "jobs Americans won't do" until local employers figured out they could get ILLEGAL Aliens to work for less than half the same amount. As an example, a young landscaper who used to make $15 an hour 10 years ago, can't get a similar job now for more than
192670
There should be no exceptions. Period. I say round up the ones who are here and ship them back to where they came from. They are a drain on our economy. I see them all the time sending most of their paycheck back to their families in Mexico. They live 20 or so to a house, so it's not like they're helping the real estate market. They're digging through dumpsters behind the grocery store adn the thrift store, looking for usable food and clothes. They're riding bicycles. Get rid of them and close the borders.
329511
i believe we need to secure our borders,but criminalizing a group of hardworking people trying to escape poverty for their family's sake is not right.is anyone aware of the hardships and living conditions these people put up with so they can send extra money to their faMILIES.hell these are the type of people that should be americans.
163235
This whole issue makes no sense to me.\n\nNow my info is based on my dealings with the construction world, which as you know employs alot of immigrants from south of the border. Now I'm not naive and I know a good many of these so called *legal* immigrants use fake socials and names to get jobs and are in actuality illegal immigrants. Our government is not stupid either but you don't see anybody going to major construction sites and doing immigration status checks now do you? Shutting down major construction projects is not going to win anybody in government very many votes now is it?\n\nIts all politics people. If its currently popular to harass immigrants the government will do so, if its not they turn a blind eye to the issue. Whatever it takes to get themselves re-elected.\n\nNow as to why this is viewed as a huge problem, I just don't see it. \n\nFirst of all the *undermining the economy* statements I see.\n\nEven the truly illegal immigrants pay taxes on the food they eat, they purchase items and pay sales tax, they pay rent, buy gasoline and cigs with high taxes on them, pay utilities, pay tolls, pay insurance, buy automobiles and in cases where they use fake IDs and socials, pay all the applicable payroll related taxes. (and in most cases overpay, you don't think they file returns at the end of the year do you?)\n\nSecondly *they work for extra low wages* The people I know in construction pay industry standard or better wages for their immigrant workers. If anything I hear complaints about how much they have to shell out, usually followed by statements praising the quality of work they get in return.\n\nThirdly *they are taking jobs from hardworking Americans* Honestly, no they aren't. The work they do in construction, while requiring some skill, is mostly back-breaking hard labor. This type of job is considered *beneath* the majority of Americans and lets face it, selling drugs is much easier and while you might be risking a stint of 3 hots and a cot atleast you won't be breaking a sweat! \n\nFourthly, they work, that's more then I can say for some Americans I know. They don't get food stamps, welfare, Medicaid, medicare, social security, or unemployment, they can't, in most cases, afford to have the government look that closely at their status so they get up every morning and go to work!\n\nFifthly, have any of you looked at what it takes to get a green card? Its not a matter of filling out a few forms. There are 3 ways to become a legal immigrant. Sponsorship by an employer, who must prove he/she can't hire anybody else for the job (and even if its true, most employers can't be bothered by all the paperwork) this method also requires the immigrant to hire a lawyer, takes about a year and reams of paperwork (hence the need for a lawyer). Secondly the lottery....yes our government holds a lottery for immigrants who have the equivalent of a HS education to *win* legal status. They give away 50,000 green cards a year to around 8 million lottery applicants. If you don't believe me look up Green Card Lottery. Funny position for a government who currently wants to crack down on illegal immigrants to take don't you think? Enter our lottery and win a chance to live in America! I'm sorry but that seems just alittle cheesy to me. And thirdly marriage to a US citizen. Its just not as simple as people seem to think.\n\nNow I know that there are probally sweat shops employing immigrants at below minimum wage but again which one of you would want that job anyway? Heck, most of the people that I know would rather starve then work at a McDonalds, much less a sweat shop. Besides, if companies want to produce items at  sweat shop wages all they have to do is relocate their factories outside the US...no wait, umm, they are already doing that so again what is the problem?\n\nI'd much rather keep the money here wouldn't you? And as far as the premise that they send money hom
278932
Sheesh, and I thought the Russians were bad with the "We thought of that first" business! It isn't bad enough that you're trying to get into America illegally and take all the benefits that the citizens have all worked for? They come from our taxes, you know! You're trying to tell us that tvs could be manufactured cheaper down there? Now, you're trying to take our tvs away from us? We're not going to stand for this! it's an outrage!
192822
I think it is a Karl Rove-esque political move by the bigoted wing of the Republican party (I'm glad that Mr. Bush does not belong to it frankly--one has to give credit where credit is due) to galvanize the support of a bunch of xenophobes.  I think it is legitimate for Americans, in particular the American lower and middle classes, to be concerned with the economic effect of illegal immigration, and I think that the Democratic party would--if it were in power--put forth a saner, more humane immigration policy that would allow for more guest-worker visas to be extended (to reflect the incredibly high demand for low-wage workers in the US), and at the same time secure the border.  But the rhetoric of the Republicans (in particular) is off-putting, callous, and contemptible.  I cannot, for the life of me, understand how they dare call themselves compassionate conservatives, when many of them are anything but compassionate.  The tragedy is that their ancestors came to the US--in all likelihood--during periods in which immigration policy was laxer, and it wasn't almost necessary to be a PhD student or a high-wage worker to come here legally.  And, of course, in some cases, their ancestors came here illegally.
267021
Just exactly what jobs are these people taking away from Americans?  Picking in the field?  Washing dishes?   I don't see too many Americans lining up to do those jobs... most of them that are available for this kind of work are too busy sitting on street corners asking for money.  \n\nLazy bastards.
481435
There are many levels of support.\n\nMost of us who "support" them, do not argue that the borders should just be thrown wide open, or even that they should be allowed to stay.\n\nMost of us "supporters" just want an immigration policy that doesn't treat them *all* like they were murderous thieves and drug dealers.  That image is one born out of racism.\n\n(And by the way, if you listen closely to those "idiots" in the protest marches ... that is what they're saying ... they are angy that white Americans treat them like vermin.)\n\nThe vast majority *do* come here for no more criminal a purpose than to find work and better their lives and those of their families.  Yes, I'm sure of that, and yes I know they are not *all* good people.  But when we are not "psychic" (as you say) and unable to tell the good people from the scum, you don't just treat them all like scum.\n\nSo at the very least ... catch them, stop them, deport them  ... but don't *hate* them ... they are doing what they have to do.\nIf we would do what we have to do ... prosecute the rich white farm growers and factory owners who are providing the jobs ... aiding the economies in their countries (instead of pouring it by the billions into that rathole called the Iraq war) ... *then* they would stop coming here.\n\nIt's the dripping *racism* on this part of YA that I object to.\n\nExample: On another post, someone discovered that his Australian neighbor was illegal, and asked if he should report her.  The "Best Answer" was somebody who said that he should report her if she is "hyspanic", but not if she is Australian.  \n\nRacists suck.
47703
*Retrieving part of an earlier post of this nature*\n\nKK First I'd like to cut to the chase here, it is a wolf thing you know...\n\nI wanna say I have no prob with immigrants, after all most of the people we concider American's ancestors (and some of mine) were immigrants who came here by legal means. There is no problem there.\n\nThat said, let us define then the real problem...\nIllegal Immigration and what is wrong with that can be summed up in one word...\nILLEGAL!!!\nNothing more is needed to define that, but for those who need a definition between immigrants who apply to the US through proper channels and are here by set rules and permissions and those here by illegal means...\n\nOK, they are here not by following proper applicants and permissions, gaining entry by just crossing over into this country or outstaying visa's and never leaving.\n\nI do have a problem with the huge amount of money being shelled out by us tax payers to pay for welfare, education, medical ect to someone here illegally.\n\nNot only that, it is evident here in states on the borders that businesses are using low wage/under the table pay Illigals as their workers. And we are not just talking picking fruit in fields. All sectors are now affected by it, from construction, to manufacturing, to high tech trade jobs. Often using falsefied documents to obtain those positions.\nIt is wrong that Americans who wish to work cannot find work at a reasonable wage and must resort to accepting near minimum for positions that took years of educational expenses and experience to be able to do or to go on unemployment as they cannot find the work that pays a reasonable wage to meet living expenses or to move to areas not as affected by the situation...\n\nIt is past time our government here in the US starts representing the US people and stop accepting big business money to ignore the problem.
75831
Don't worry my Canadian friend, I believe that this issue will have to be taken care of. It's the Capitalists that are really to blame here; because they have exploited the Latinos. I really don't think it is all their fault, do you "Really"? It's an obvious Employer, Employee problem. the Employers in my area invite them into my country illegally. Heavy fines should be imposed on the Employers, and that is the way it used to be in America. So it is only a select few, a minority that has once again screwed up things for the majority. That includes Canadians, and everyone else from all the other Countries. Bush's watch, and his problem. Nobody can do anything about it all right now, but him.
155370
So, the immigrants that started the United States were legal, eh?  Guess again.  The British government declared many of their actions illegal.  Since they were British citizens. this makes them illegal as well.  Also, if we deport all of the illegal immigrants, how do you think our economy will fare?  Do you really think that citizens will take the jobs that the illegal aliens have?  There is no way.  Also, almost all, if not all of the people participating in the petitions were naturalized citizens.
222261
No, it isn't. It's quite simply that in recent years it is getting out of hand. As the owner of a fairly large construction company, I can give you an example why people like myself have such an issue with illegal aliens. In 1995, the cost of framing a custom home was about $7.00 per sq. ft. . In 2005, the cost for the same job is about $3.25 per sq. ft.. This is DIRECTLY related to illegal aliens, in that they are highly skilled craftsmen who can do just as well a job, but because they don't have insurance, or pay taxes, they can cut a bid in HALF, and still maintain the same profit margin. Almost 30% of every penny the company makes goes to taxes alone. Add another 5% of each individual's income for worker's comp. Which illegal aliens can't get, nor can they get the bonding and liability insurance policies I am requred to maintain as a part of doing business. Their average income is $12 per hour. My average payout for wages is $18 per hour. That's per man. So do the math. How much house do you think I can afford to build at $3.25 per foot, at $18 per man hour with a 9 man crew per jobsite? Notice, the cost of housing (along with the price of fuel) has increase almost 150 PERCENT in the past 10 years, yet the income of TENS OF THOUSANDS of AMERICAN construction workers has been cut in half, just so they can compete in an open job market. So tell me mister, who SHOULD I be pissed at? I don't see any senators running the bottom out of my business. But I do support ANY efforts they can make to keep ANYONE else from doing so. The White House has had ZERO impact on my particular job market. The criminal activities of 10 million Mexicans HAS.
205529
viper_najem-I AGREE The Asker IS An EGOTISTIC Loser\n\nbanana_bean01 Asked 2 Of The BEST Questions Ive EVER Seen Posted In ANY Of These Forums\n\nteresa-I WISH More People Would Understand The Underlying Economics As You See Them Because The Issue IS NATIONAL ECONOMICS NOT RACE\n\nJust Cause Life In MEX. And Some Other Countries "SUCKS"\nDont Give Someone A RIGHT To Be In This Nation\n\nAnd I Know That Pres.Fox Is CORRUPT But THAT\nDont Give Someone A RIGHT To Be In This Nation\n\nAnd Just Cause You Dont Have A Criminal Record\nDont Give Someone A RIGHT To Be In This Nation\n\nThis Is A NATION With LAWS-THAT IS The REALITY\nThis NATION Of LAWS Has BORDERS\nIt Dont MATTER HOW It Got To Be That Way\nTHAT Is The Way It Is\nThe INDIANs, The BUFFALOs, The WARs, The ESKIMOEs,\nIT DONT MATTER-Thats The WAY It IS\n\nYou Have The RIGHT To Be Here If \n1:You Were BORN Here\n2:You Take The Basic Nessesary Steps To Apply For A VISA And Then CITIZENSHIP And Are APPROVED\nTHAT Is The LAW In THIS NATION\nIF EITHER 1 or 2 Of The ABOVE Are In Fact TRUE\nThen You Are A CITIZEN Of This Nation\nAnd You Have A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT To Be Here\n\nTHATS IT-THATS ALL-There Are NO More Arguements About The RIGHT To Be Here In This NATION Of LAWS\n\nILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS Have No Constitutional Rights\n\nYou CANNOT "STEAL" The RIGHT To Be Here As You CANNOT STEAL ANY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS\nIf You DO, You Are A FELON\nYouve BROKEN FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS\nIf You VIOLATE The FEDERAL LAWS Of A NATION, You Are A CRIMINAL\n\nIts THAT SIMPLE \nIf You Break Into A House To Steal Property, That Is An ILLEGAL ACTION, With A PENALTY If You Are Caught \nIf You SNEAK Across The BORDER Of A NATION To STEAL The RIGHT To Be There, That Is An ILLEGAL ACTION, With A PENALTY If You Are Caught\n\nILLEGAL ALIENS in America are here only because they are GUILTY of CRIMINAL VIOLATION of our FEDERAL LAWS, Jumping our borders and living in a shadowy underground economy. They are morally culpable for shoving aside those who adhere to the law and enter these United States in orderly and Legal Fashion. Since when do criminals and cheaters receive pride of place for the blessings of liberty, over those honestly, earnestly and faithfully seeking to become American citizens? \n\nPresident Bush has called for a reasonable and civil debate over the issues of border security and immigration reform. But the American people understand there can be no responsible immigration reform UNTIL OUR BORDERS ARE SECURE. “Guest worker” amnesty programs ARE NOT a part of border security. Amnesty is not the answer. To grant amnesty to these trespassers is to say "You crossed our borders ILLEGALLY, You BROKE OUR LAWS and now we are REWARDING you with U.S. Citizenship -- Congratulations!" \n\nThis is unacceptable. \n\n\nWe cannot allow illegals to remain in this country because it sends the very clear message to anyone from any country: \nGo ahead and enter the U.S. illegally. Nothing will be done to you. \nThe stupid Americans will pay to feed you, clothe you, educate your kids and pay for your medical care\nwhile they themselves are forced to go without because they can't afford health insurance because their tax dollars are paying for you! \nHa, Ha! Go ahead and enter the U.S. illegally If you're a terrorist, no problem, go ahead and build your cells, blow up buildings and schools.\nNothing will happen because American politicians are too cowardly to repel this invasion and deport the millions of \nillegals aready here while the illegals rub their lawlessness in our faces.\n\nAFRAID???-AFRAID???-NO< Im NOT AFRAD-IM PI$$ED\n\nIM MAD AS HELL-And IM NOT GONNA TAKE THIS $HIT \n\nYou Wish To Become AMERICANS With The RIGHTS Of AMERICANS .. \nYet Many Of You REFUSE To SPEAK My/Our LANGUAGE \nAnd REFUSE To Honor My/Our Flag \nWell I REFUSE To Let YOU Continue To Burden My Pocket \nAnd The Pockets Of My "PROUD TO BE AMERICAN" BROTHERS \nOf ANY DESCENT\n\nY
305160
This is what suprises me...that the "legal" immegrant population is willing to allow their way of life here in the U.S to be dramatically reduced for the sake of their "Illegal" counter parts. What's going to happen when we let all these people become citizens? a new build up of illegals will start! Your schools, your freeways, your hospitals are all overcrowded NOW! What does the future hold when we don't say NO? The poor will continue to crowd into their dingy one bedroom apartments while the rich will continue to exploit them for pennies! Pretty soon OUR country will be like Mexico in that we will have those that are rich exploiting those that are dirt poor!....and you will have brought it on yourselves!
390809
LMAO . I saw it.  Many of them live a dual life .. . Hate America, but Want to Live Here. Makes about as much sense as the rest of their views.
132600
It´s a lovely idea, but doesn´t sound like anything the current US administration would go for.  After all, while hyping the immigration issue in the media and, frankly, whipping up racism, they are also quite happy to turn a blind eye to US businesses using cheap illegal labour. It´s happening in all western countries at the moment.  The media, backed by the government, incites its citizens to be worried about illegal immigration, while the economy actually benefits from the black market economy working with it. I´m in Mexico now on holiday, but staying with family.  It´s a hard place, with a bad atmosphere.  It definitely needs some help, but everyone here says the corruption is so far reaching, there is no hope.  Your idea is nice but too socialist for anyone in today´s political arena and, like Iraq, would require serious investment, commitment and integrity..... never forget it´s all about the money.
161267
You americans and your minuteman. Quit the crap. The inmigrants only do those jobs you snob americans(not all of you) don't want to do. And anyway, you all "americans" are inmigrants anyway, the only real americans are the indians that you keep in resevoirs. Imagine how your economy would be without all the latins that clean your floors, and do your harvesting and work their butts off for a penny or two? All your vigilantes should find a real job and stop killing people just beacuse they are trying to make an honest living and trying to live the american dream. The same reason the ancestors of those vigilantes inmigrated to the US.