...and known about all the archaeological findings of Neanderthals and Homo erectus, would he still put this "Adam and Eve" story in the bible? \n\nI mean it really only makes "God" look like an unforgiving bully.
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i know this isn't really answering your question but i was kinda surprised to see what you said about "God looking like an unforgiving bully". I don't get that - He says do anything you want with this amazing garden I've given you, except one thing. If you do it, I'm going to punish you. So they do that one thing, and surprise surprise, they get punished. THEN He says, ok, so now you all do loads of stuff that goes against what i have said you should do, but I'll offer forgiveness through Jesus. That seems both pretty consistent and forgiving to me. \nSorry that doesn't answer your question, and I'm not ranting at you, just interested that you think that. I've never looked at it in that way. Hope other's answers are more on the point.\n\n\nAnd shadowalfalfa -sorry to disagree with you again, but Moses is thought to have written the first 5 books of the Bible.\n\nAn addition to my answer after your addition to your question - there is a prophecy in Daniel 7 that is entirely consistent with the acts of Alexander the Great many many many years later. There is historical evidence that Jesus existed and did many of the things the Bible says He did. So at least those things happened. Coincidence??? I don't think so.
654830
i've seen paintings of biblical scenes.... why does adam have nipples, and why do adam and eve both have belly buttons? if you believe the bible is word for word correct, (and i dont see how anyone can think that every single word in there is perfect) that alone proves that god must have a sense of humor.
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The dinosaurs fit right in. What I don't get is how more people don't see how it fits but let me give you my humble opinion. This is not doctrine, this is one man's opinion. This is what I believe. On things of God we have a couple a sacred texts or scripture, in the oldest book about God written by the hands of prophets on stone, papyrii and what not we have accounts of the creation, in Genesis the first of even the pentetauch we are given such as slim or incomplete description that it is possible that 1 billion years could pass by as we read in a matter of one stanza. It has been said that 1 day in God's time is 1000 of our years in our reckoning. So lets take the first 6 days of the creation, or in particuliar the the 5th day after he had made some grass and light and stuff. In Gen 1:20 it say that He said" Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. 21. And God created great whales, and every living vreature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful and Multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 32. And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. 24 And God said, let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind; and it was so. " So that 5th day was very busy and at 1000yr /day reckoning its possible that it took 365,000 years to complete but cant know precisely yet . The beast of the earth that is referred to, also the great whales that are referred to, also refences to unicorns and all manner of beasts now extinct, isn't it possible that although not specifically mentioned that and on the 5th day about the 6th and 1/2 hour God made the T-rex and he blessed them and saw that they were ferocious. No . We only have this small wordage to assemble together the whole of creation. I dont see a problem with 17 billion year universe age and putting it into Gods plan at all. Bless you and have a pleasant tomorrow.
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Joshua.  People like you crack me up.  Really!  You argue about biblical-specific entries and events as if they were factual and undeniable.  "written 4000 years ago"  On what?  Notebook paper?  Do you have some copies of those 4000 year old writings?  Do you have some secret text that nobody else has ever seen?  Are you on heroin or acid?  What's your trip?  None of the authors of the NT witnessed the alleged resurrection.  No matter how you stretch it, there are no actual accounts of it.  Most of the NT was created and written in 320AD under the direction of Constantine the Great, and its puirpose was NOT for historic accuracy.  Its purpose was to create a doctrine at the Council of Nicea that all factions of religious doctrine could agree upon and pull everyone together.  Why does it appear that there only a few people that post here regularly who actually know this?  Is your only source of "history" the Bible itself?  Are you crazy enough to use the Bible to prove the Bible?  Talk about illogic!\n\nThe original poster is correct -- if the notion of god portrayed in the bible is accurate, then there is no need for "free will" -- God already knows how things turn out.  He already knows who chooses free will and who doesn't choose free will, how they act, and who the sinners are and who goes to hell.  He already knows the choices people made in the past and what they'll make in the future.  He already knows how things will turn.  Already been there.  Outside of the time line?  Fine, state it however you wish.  It's still the same.  He's all knowing.  He knows how the "souls" will turn out. There's no need for a test on earth.\n\nThe question is not flawed at all.  Your assumption that the Bible is incontrovertible is flawed, and your statements of biblical myths as assertion are ridiculous.  It is one of hundreds of unprovable myths on this whole planet, full of fatal flaws, like the one this question raises.
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Yeah, it's like putting a 4 year old in a room and specifically telling him, "You can look in every box in this room.  But DON'T look in this one particular box."\n\nHe's going to head straight for it.\n\nAnd you have to figure, Adam and Eve would've been supremely naive.  It would be a bit harsh to deal out all the punishment that billions of human's have endured because of one damn apple.\n\nHowever, the tree was not really real.  It just shows that we are evil because we can know the difference between good and evil.  This knowlege makes us responsible for that evil we do.  This is re-affirmed when Jesus said, "Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do."  You're not guilty if you don't know.\n\nBut WE KNOW the evil we perpetrate, for the most part.  We KNOW when we are assuming things without verifying the fact, and we KNOW when we are talking trash about someone.  We're all pretty base.  Hopefully we all continually try to better ourselves.
401381
Huge Problems!!! where!!  have you ever thought the rules of the past may not be applied to what is today!  Adam is believed to have been created as a perfect being, and we know now that the humans are not perfect! get the point!!  Once upon a time Africa was a huge forest, now it is a big desert! ever wondered why!  think about it.\nDuring the time of ADAM and EVE, some believe didn't even have a spoken language, and now, we have so many languages!! ever wondered why!\nEarth is a living, or dying plant.  what was in the past, we many never see, or see again.\nCan you explain any of my questions! if you can! then you will get the answer to your questions as well.  Good luck if you can.\n\nIf the Genesis confuse you, try the Quran, but first take two asprines before you start reading. \ntake my advice.  Sincerely llewrose MD :)
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As Dawkins put it...\n\nThe God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.\n\nWhy would I want to worship that?
204997
Yeah! i agree with you 100% and a lot of them that i've talked to claim that it doesn't "SPECIFICALY" say that its wrong in the bible and uhhh hello! Leviticus 18:22, "Do not lie with another man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable." So my advice would be attack them with their own source of their job, the bible and god, also im pretty sure god wouldn't have song of solomon in the bible with a man and a woman instead of two men or two women. I mean c'mon people use some common sense! Like there was this gay guy and his bf that wanted to come to our youth group and we obiously had no prob. w/ it except it was really wierd and he claimed there was nothing wrong with it! HOW DARE HIM! i tried to not get upset and be respectful because its the devil whispering in his ear and ya don't fight fire with fire\n\n\n\n\nGod made adam and eve not adam and steve... lol sry, cheesy :)
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Hi Pangel,\n\nHere are some thoughts.  \n\n“When enlightened men go on arguing for a long time, there is a distinct possibility that the question is not clear.” -- Voltaire\n\nNoah’s Ark:  Some Facts\n\nMaybe the issue is not clear.  Are we talking about faith based on a global flood, or faith based on the fact that Noah listened to God?  Why was this story included in the Bible?\n\nThe story of Noah’s Ark likely occurred, since it was communicated and recorded as a significant event.  However, there are aspects of this story that do not make sense on a Global basis.  For example, how did all the animals from Australia and the America’s get there?  Where did 5 miles depth of water come from and go to?  If it rained heavily at 4 inches per hour, it would take 10 years of heavy rain to clear the peak of Mount Everest.  How many years did it take for the water to evaporate?  Can we show that all the fresh water or saltwater fish died out?  How about all the vegetation?  How did all this come back?  Are there facts in other cultures of a gap and recovery in life?  \n\nThe Bible is specific that it only rained for 40 days and nights.  Although it says the mountains were covered, is specifies the height of the water as 15 cubits, or about 27 ½ feet.  This suggests that it rained on average about 1/3 inch per hour, or 8 inches per day for 40 days to increase the water by 27 ½ feet over the world, or in a local valley.  If it had been a Global event, then it could be found in archeology, glacier samples, historical records, the life and death of species and many other methods.  Physically, it has not been discovered. \n\nThis was a difficult way for God to kill everyone except Noah and his family, compared to how He dealt with the immoral people in Sodom and Gomorrah.  Those cities and the people were destroyed in 1 day, very precisely.   \n\n“Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.” – Albert Einstein\n\nOccam’s Razor\nThis is an excellent example of how and when to use Occam’s Razor.  \n\n“The simplest explanation is the best explanation (one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities to explain anything”. -- Occam\n\nTo gather all the animals in the world (increases entities since it is unrealistic), and flood the entire world to kill just the local people that were immoral (increases entities since it is over-kill and why would God do that?), appears to be more effort and complex than necessary.  A local flood would have done the same job (simpler).  Where are there records that the world was flooded and all life died and started over again?  The historical records and scientific data do not support an event like this (adds entities).  I do not think God made it rain and then manipulated the water supply because he can do miracles (adds entities).  \n\nConjecture:\nWhat can be said?  Noah’s world was said to be immoral.  During a prayer, or by some means, Noah spiritually (was told by God) discerned that a flood was coming, so he built an Ark.  If Noah lived in a valley (an assumption), then his possessions and family were at risk to a flood.  When the rains came, Noah loaded the Ark with family and animals.  The valley flooded and all the immoral people who lived in it lost their lives.  When the waters receded, Noah re-settled.  \n\nI think a flood occurred.  Our world has big floods and little floods. This is the description of a big flood.  I believe when it was verbally communicated it was accurate in the context it was communicated, but not the context we read it.  Noah’s world was limited and it would have been unrealistic to say Polar Bears, Penguins, Koala Bears were in the Ark.  Who then would have believed the Bible for those animals were unknown, and the Bible would have sounded like mythology?  \n\nHowever, I must admit this truth, all this discussion is pure conjecture.  Whether it was a global flood or a local flood, until there is proof, it is
34859
Cain was concerned with the people that the Elohim created BEFORE the christian god created Adam and Eve.\n\nHeck.  I would be concerned and scared too if I were being sent out into a world among people I don't know after my parents isolated me from everything else.\n\n=======================\n\nThe following is an Article published six or seven years ago in Green Egg.\n\n*We Are the Other People*\n\nby Oberon (Otter) Zell\n\n"Ding-dong!" goes the doorbell. Is it Avon calling? Or perhaps Ed McMahon with my three million dollars? No, it's Yahweh's Witlesses again, just wanting to have a nice little chat about the Bible... Boy, did they ever come to the wrong house! So we invite them in: "Enter freely and of your own will..." (Hey, it's Sunday morning, nothing much going on, why not have a little entertainment?) Diane and I amuse ourselves watching their expressions as they check out the living room: great horned owl on the back of my chair; ceremonial masks and medicine skulls of dragons and unicorns on the wall; crystals, wands, staffs, swords; lots of Goddess figures and several altars; boa constrictors draped in amorous embrace over the elkhorn; white doves sitting in the hanging planters; cats and weasels underfoot; iron dragon snorting steam atop the wood stove; posters and paintings of wizards and dinosaurs and witchy women, some proudly naked; sculptures of mythological beasties and lots more dinosaurs; warp six on the star-filled viewscreen of my computer; a five-foot model of the USS Enterprise and the skeleton of a plesiosaur hanging from the ceiling; very, very many books, most of them dealing with obviously weird subjects... To say nothing of the great horned owl perched on the back of my chair and the Unicorn grazing in the front yard. You know; early Addams Family decor. And then, of course, it being late in the morning, you can expect Morning Glory to come wandering out naked, looking for her wake-up cup of tea. Morning Glory naked is a truly impressive sight, and the Witlesses look as if she'd set titties on stun as they stand immobilised, hands clasped over their genitals. With the stage set and all the actors in place, the show is ready to begin.\n\nTheir mission, of course, is to save our heathen souls by turning us on to "The Word of the Lord"- their Bible. I guess they figure some of us just haven't heard about it yet, and we're all eagerly awaiting their joyous tidings of personal salvation through giving our rational faculties to Jesus. Every time they come around, I look forward to trying out a new riposte. Sure, it may be cruel and sadistic of me, but hey, I didn't call them up and ask them to come over; they entered at their own risk! This time should be pretty good. After letting them run off their basic rap while lovely Morning Glory serves us all hot herb tea, I innocently remark: "But none of that applies to us. We have no need for salvation because we don't have original sin. We are the Other People."\n\n"Hunh? What?" they reply eloquently. It's clear they've never heard this one before. "\n\nRight," I say. "It's all in your Bible." And I proceed to tell them the story, using their own book for reference: (Genesis 1:26) The [Elohim] said, "Let us make humanity in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild beasts and all the reptiles that crawl upon the earth." Elohim is a plural word, including male and female, and should properly be translated "Gods" or "Pantheon." (1: 27) The Gods created humanity in the image of themselves, In the image of the Gods they created them, Male and female they created them. (1:28) The Gods blessed them, saying to them, "Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and conquer it. Be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of he
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No, Adam and Eve were the first Homo Sapiens.\n\nYou're trying too hard to fit science and the bible together.  God didn't create a clean rock called Earth.  He created the Earth with a history.  That's how you come to terms with 1,000,000 year old fossils.  He made them that old to begin with.  Connecting evolution to the Bible is easier than you think.
111132
"Exodus 33: 'evil tidings' from LORD? Moses talked face to face with LORD, but only saw 'back' parts of LORD?"\n\nAre you trying to reconcile Exodus 33 with the Kabbalistic concept of Qlippoth?\n\nWhile its quite normal in most mythological systems for deities to tell humans that they won't survive gazing upon the deity's awesome visage, Qlippoth does make an interesting question here.  Perhaps the suggestion would be that while we try to look YHVH in the face, we are unable to really conceive of it and can only glimpse the "back", the Qlippoth, ie the stuff we don't like so much.  Interesting how akin it is to the way children think of their parents when they're young. Maybe someday humans will mature and be able to see YHVH in a more wholistic fashion.\n\n"Could there be two LORDS to consider, sort out, if there's also mention of the LORD of 'LORDS'?"\n\nIn the translation I'm looking at right now, I don't see the phrase "Lord of Lords" used in Ex 33.  However, when it does come up its referring to one or both of two things: The supremacy of YHVH in the pre-Abrahamic Judaic pantheon (before Abraham made his covenant with YHVH, the Jews were polytheistic and YHVH was one deity among many), and/or the supremacy of YHVH as a heavenly Lord to earthly Lords.\n\n"Which 'things' are an 'allegory' and 'mystery'."\n\nThere's no allegory in this chapter.  And, for me at least, the Bible in its entirety can be understood as a Mystery if one chooses to see it that way.\n\n"Why did story of Noah's Ark mention God and LORD, who notably gave Noah contradicting commandments?"\n\nThe commands aren't really contradictory: They don't "undo" each other.  So its not like there are two entities here giving opposite commands to Noah and using him as a pawn in some secret hidden war.  God doesn't say "save the animals" only to have Lord come back and say "don't save the animals."  There's just a confusion over number, which I consider being a result of bad editing - something that's bound to happen when a text is scribed, re-scribed, redacted, translated, etc. ad nauseum over the course of roughly 6000 years.
170155
Kinda prejudiced in the way you asked, dontcha think?  :-)\n\nThe story of Adam and Eve is a parable.  I don't expect it was meant literally even by the people who wrote it.  I feel very sorry for the small-minded people who have to have the story be "true" in order to see any value to it.\n\nEvery human on the planet has a gene that, if it worked, would make us as furry as chimpanzees are.  It doesn't work, it has a transposon (a type of genetic parasite) stuck in it.  Without that transposon, we'd all have to pay a lot more for shampoo every month!\n\nSo, the question before the creationists is, wherefore doth we have it?  Did God create us with a broken gene, complete with parasite, that we don't even want?  Or were Adam and Eve furry?  So far, I've only found one creationist willing to accept that Adam and Eve were hirsute people.\n\nThere are a thousand arguments like this.  To date, creationists flee in terror from all of them, while presenting the same old, tired, long refuted nonsense in support for their cause.  They cannot explain the pattern of genetic similarity.  They cannot explain how the Great Flood hasn't left the entire surface of the earth salt-infused and sterile.  They cannot explain how any species more complicated than a protozoa survived the flood.  They've got nothing.\n\nResponding to some of the nothing they have:\n\nPopulation Growth:\n\nAssuming a constant rate of population growth is simply naive and silly.  We *know* the population growth hasn't been constant.  Remember the black death?  60% of Europe *died*.  That's not growth!\n\nIf we apply the same argument to fruit flies, we find that the entire earth is covered in fruit flies in a matter of days.  Funny how that hasn't happened.  It's almost as if populations do not experience continuous growth because limits are set by the environment!\n\nAnother fun fact about the constant population growth argument:  If it's true, the Bible LIES!  After all, at the time of Exodus, it says more people left Egypt than existed on earth at the time!\n\nSo, dump the rather silly population growth argument.\n\nDinosaurs:\n\nThere are NO human fossils found with dinosaur fossils.  Not a single one.  You're welcome to point out a specific exception.  There are three sites showing "human" and dinosaur footprints, but Paluxy is a product of wishful thinking and some faking by townsfolk hoping to get more tourist dollars (they admitted this) and the other two (Tuba City and some site in Russia I don't remember) are just really bad fakes.\n\nDinosaurs are not lizards.  Let a lizard grow forever and it will not turn into anything resembling a dinosaur.  This is one of Carl Baugh's silly claims and it causes nothing but ridicule for creationists.  Lizards belong to the suborder Laertes.  They have sprawling legs.  A large lizard has large sprawling legs.  Dinosaurs have legs better mounted. Small dinosaurs have smaller legs.  Small dinosaurs cannot be mistaken for lizards.  (Well, if you're utterly ignorant about biology, I suppose they could.)\n\n(At least Baugh stopped claiming that breathing pure ozone would help you live for hundreds of years, despite the fact that ozone is explosive and poisonous!  But since when has a creationist needed to understand a subject before making declarations about it.) \n\nSea monsters as evidence?  Gee, now that's desperate.  I'm sure you'll present the physical evidence that dinosaurs were fire-breathing next, right?  Sheesh!\n\nOh, and carbon dating has not been "proven wrong".  Not that it matters.  There are thousands of different dating systems.  Carbon dating, by the way, only works on organic materials:  NOT FOSSILS.  Dinosaur fossils are NEVER dated by carbon dating.  So, you're wrong.  Again.\n\nLaw of Angular Momentum:\n\nUm... because other collisions happen?  I know, stunning!\n\nReally dumb argument.\n\nHistoric
602602
I think you're absolutely right abou this. All of our theories about language evolving (there's that word again) from proto-language over a period of millenia just doesn't make any sense. The idea that things come from other things is simply a heap of rubbish.\n\nWe're clearly ignoring the possibility that Adam was created, fully formed, and went about naming the animals, using language for the first time.\n\nWhen will we learn?
430946
I'm agnostic, but here's the deal: of course the Bible is metaphor. Garden of Eden, Noah's Ark, parting of Red Sea, Sodom & Gomorrah, Virgin Birth, Lazarus rasied from the Dead, etc. But we have to remember that those stories were all told by a group of semi-nomadic, largely illiterate people living 2000 years ago. They were simply using metaphor and allegor and symbolism to convey as best they could their understanding of God. So yes, they ARE a bunch of stories, if you want to over-simplify like that, but the big question is: what compelled them to go to such lengths to create such myths? And why would Jesus' disciples risk death--and incur death--if they thought he was a fake? After his death they could have simply disbanded, yet they continued on. To me--the reasons for the stories are more important than the literal accuracy. To read the Bible like a history book is to totallt miss the point!
632532
Mankind had grown to new heights of evil preceding the flood. Certainly women knew they were copulating with something other than humans - and the debauchery was great on many levels.\n\nThe Book of Enoch was obviously quoted in accepted canonized books and should have been included.  The reason (or part of the reason) why it was rejected is because Enoch described planets as orbs (round) and having orbital paths..., something that threatened the Flat Earth stigma.\n\nAt any rate the Bible mentions the Nephelim not because they were a good thing.., but an added evil so yeah, your observation is at least partly true.  Only seven people in the entire earth had not been corrupted.. Actually it was just Noah, but there had to have been an assumption that his family had not been corrupted by that evil.\n\nOur present day world is seeing evil that rivals that of Noah's day, with men experimenting and trying to create life from scratch. Already some scientists are working on completely artificial human DNA. They have also manipulated genes so that female mice can have babies without a male partner - something they hope to develop into human females so the need for males are zero.., a violation of the order God set out on this world.\n\nTodays generation calls evil good and good evil.  Being homosexual and immoral is considered normal and thus deemed as good - but having morals is considered to be stifling intelligence and trying to control others, hence deemed as bad.\n\nThe list goes on and on..., but evil has reached new heights and the world doesn't see it. I've heard many saying there is no evil in  his world .., all things are good.\n\nJesus will be coming back soon. The sooner - the better!  Unless God had not cut the days short, mankind will end in a global state of genocide (nuclear and bio-weapons, diseases from abuse of our own bodies, violence and injustice and more)
70364
Its a metaphorical story taken from even older texts.  If you read your Bible, it states that the serpent tempted Eve and not Satan.