# MediaChunks

chunk_text:
What the cops tell us is that he appears to have been stabbed. 744.38s - 750.30s | And he's known to have this existing relationship with Alice Askey, the other name that we heard. 750.30s - 756.62s | And she lives at 123 Main Street. The police are pretty sure Alice went to Bob's house 756.62s - 764.62s | and killed him. And you've been asked to work with the team to investigate the digital relevant 764.62s - 771.02s | information and determine Alice's involvement. These are the specific objectives you are 771.02s - 777.82s | given. The police have asked you to perform an analysis on the information. And they want 777.82s - 784.06s | to know what evidence exists that proves Alice killed Bob and why did Alice kill Bob? Now, 784.06s - 791.54s | I'm here to tell you in the talk title of my talk hints at this. These are not good 791.54s - 799.14s | questions for forensics. Forensics cannot tell you why somebody did something. It cannot 799.14s - 805.38s | tell you that someone did something at all. It can tell you what happened on a system. 805.38s - 813.32s | It cannot always put hands behind keyboards. So these are not necessarily good objectives. 813.32s - 818.34s | This kind of challenge is presented to us regularly in forensics. Open-ended questions 818.34s - 823.50s | are not things forensics can typically answer. We just discuss what kinds of questions forensics 823.50s - 830.42s | is not meant to cover. So like, you know, why someone did something, who did something 830.42s - 836.82s | specifically. You often have incorrect assumptions, right? What assumption did we hear that was 836.82s - 844.30s | a problem? Alice killed Bob, right? Like we're just getting started and we're already assuming 844.30s - 850.42s | Alice killed Bob. That is not a good thing. They're often unrealistic timeframes and there 850.42s - 857.70s | are limitations to what we can recover. Sometimes the scope winds up being too huge and it has 857.70s - 864.36s | to be broken down. And sometimes requests are incomplete. So like asking for a particular 864.36s - 870.56s | type of social media, but really wanting all the social media. So these are all challenges. 870.56s - 875.48s | So as a result, we revise those objectives to fit more


chunk_text:
always put hands behind keyboards. So these are not necessarily good objectives. 813.32s - 818.34s | This kind of challenge is presented to us regularly in forensics. Open-ended questions 818.34s - 823.50s | are not things forensics can typically answer. We just discuss what kinds of questions forensics 823.50s - 830.42s | is not meant to cover. So like, you know, why someone did something, who did something 830.42s - 836.82s | specifically. You often have incorrect assumptions, right? What assumption did we hear that was 836.82s - 844.30s | a problem? Alice killed Bob, right? Like we're just getting started and we're already assuming 844.30s - 850.42s | Alice killed Bob. That is not a good thing. They're often unrealistic timeframes and there 850.42s - 857.70s | are limitations to what we can recover. Sometimes the scope winds up being too huge and it has 857.70s - 864.36s | to be broken down. And sometimes requests are incomplete. So like asking for a particular 864.36s - 870.56s | type of social media, but really wanting all the social media. So these are all challenges. 870.56s - 875.48s | So as a result, we revise those objectives to fit more with what forensics really can 875.48s - 882.32s | answer. So better questions that forensics can handle. Was there any activity on the 882.32s - 889.04s | devices around the time of death? Is there evidence to indicate involvement, right? Not 889.04s - 894.64s | to say that someone definitely did something, but could there have been a person involved? 894.64s - 899.12s | And we want to look at all that relevant digital communication between Alice and Bob since 899.12s - 911.66s | we know there is an existing relationship. That is a reasonable thing to do. The forensics 911.66s - 917.46s | team sprang into action, setting up their equipment and connecting cables to Bob's laptop. 917.46s - 922.50s | One technician began the process of creating a forensic image of the laptop while another 922.50s - 928.78s | meticulously documented every step, ensuring the integrity of the evidence. Meanwhile, 928.78s - 933.12s | Detective Hart scanned the room for any other digital devices that might hold clues. She 933.12s - 937.84s | spotted a smartphone lying on the floor near the victim's body and carefully bagged it 937.84s - 943.48s | for further analysis. Finally, after what


chunk_text:
with what forensics really can 875.48s - 882.32s | answer. So better questions that forensics can handle. Was there any activity on the 882.32s - 889.04s | devices around the time of death? Is there evidence to indicate involvement, right? Not 889.04s - 894.64s | to say that someone definitely did something, but could there have been a person involved? 894.64s - 899.12s | And we want to look at all that relevant digital communication between Alice and Bob since 899.12s - 911.66s | we know there is an existing relationship. That is a reasonable thing to do. The forensics 911.66s - 917.46s | team sprang into action, setting up their equipment and connecting cables to Bob's laptop. 917.46s - 922.50s | One technician began the process of creating a forensic image of the laptop while another 922.50s - 928.78s | meticulously documented every step, ensuring the integrity of the evidence. Meanwhile, 928.78s - 933.12s | Detective Hart scanned the room for any other digital devices that might hold clues. She 933.12s - 937.84s | spotted a smartphone lying on the floor near the victim's body and carefully bagged it 937.84s - 943.48s | for further analysis. Finally, after what felt like an eternity, the forensic team finished 943.48s - 950.32s | their work. They carefully packed up the equipment, leaving the room as they had found it. Simultaneously, 950.32s - 956.28s | additional police officers paid Alice Askey a visit at home. They encouraged her to do 956.28s - 962.36s | the right thing if she has nothing to hide. And as a result, they convinced her to provide 962.36s - 967.04s | her laptop and cell phone to them for examination, along, of course, with the passwords to these 967.04s - 973.48s | devices. So that evidence and the items collected at the scene were quickly turned over to the 973.48s - 986.97s | forensic lab for imaging and processing. So when we do data gathering, because this is 986.97s - 993.29s | the data gathering section, we may be gathering data that's not necessarily digital. And this 993.29s - 997.97s | can be a real challenge because what happens sometimes, sometimes you go in the field doing 997.97s - 1001.75s | this and you do it yourself. And sometimes somebody, a different team or other people 1001.75s - 1005.69s | go into the field. So sometimes you're


chunk_text:
felt like an eternity, the forensic team finished 943.48s - 950.32s | their work. They carefully packed up the equipment, leaving the room as they had found it. Simultaneously, 950.32s - 956.28s | additional police officers paid Alice Askey a visit at home. They encouraged her to do 956.28s - 962.36s | the right thing if she has nothing to hide. And as a result, they convinced her to provide 962.36s - 967.04s | her laptop and cell phone to them for examination, along, of course, with the passwords to these 967.04s - 973.48s | devices. So that evidence and the items collected at the scene were quickly turned over to the 973.48s - 986.97s | forensic lab for imaging and processing. So when we do data gathering, because this is 986.97s - 993.29s | the data gathering section, we may be gathering data that's not necessarily digital. And this 993.29s - 997.97s | can be a real challenge because what happens sometimes, sometimes you go in the field doing 997.97s - 1001.75s | this and you do it yourself. And sometimes somebody, a different team or other people 1001.75s - 1005.69s | go into the field. So sometimes you're going to get different information from different 1005.69s - 1010.69s | folks at different times. It can be really chaotic. But these are the kinds of things 1010.69s - 1016.49s | that are examples of stuff we might collect. So, you know, we might have to take a forensic 1016.49s - 1021.73s | image on scene. You know, maybe we need some log files. This all really depends on the 1021.73s - 1029.73s | very specific case. What kind of tools do we use? Well, we use forensic tools like FTK 1029.73s - 1035.97s | Imager, NCASE X-Ways, Axiom. You'll see a whole list here. We'll see some pictures. 1035.97s - 1040.05s | Sometimes scripts are used. Cameras are handy. Sometimes it's best to take photographs. We 1040.05s - 1045.01s | might see passwords on, I don't know, Post-it notes. Because no one's ever seen that under 1045.01s - 1052.53s | a keyboard before, right? Nobody ever does that. So we might do video, but video is encouraged 1052.53s - 1056.77s | to do with no sound. Sound can get you in hot water because people sometimes say things 1056.77s - 1062.57s | on scene that maybe they shouldn't be


chunk_text:
going to get different information from different 1005.69s - 1010.69s | folks at different times. It can be really chaotic. But these are the kinds of things 1010.69s - 1016.49s | that are examples of stuff we might collect. So, you know, we might have to take a forensic 1016.49s - 1021.73s | image on scene. You know, maybe we need some log files. This all really depends on the 1021.73s - 1029.73s | very specific case. What kind of tools do we use? Well, we use forensic tools like FTK 1029.73s - 1035.97s | Imager, NCASE X-Ways, Axiom. You'll see a whole list here. We'll see some pictures. 1035.97s - 1040.05s | Sometimes scripts are used. Cameras are handy. Sometimes it's best to take photographs. We 1040.05s - 1045.01s | might see passwords on, I don't know, Post-it notes. Because no one's ever seen that under 1045.01s - 1052.53s | a keyboard before, right? Nobody ever does that. So we might do video, but video is encouraged 1052.53s - 1056.77s | to do with no sound. Sound can get you in hot water because people sometimes say things 1056.77s - 1062.57s | on scene that maybe they shouldn't be saying. And of course, sometimes you just take notes. 1062.57s - 1067.77s | Old-fashioned paper and pen are great for that. So I know this is a little fuzzy, but 1067.77s - 1074.77s | this is Axiom GrayKey. It's only available to law enforcement. And it's used to gather 1074.89s - 1081.89s | data off phones, typically. And it can do phone image extractions. 1083.25s - 1090.25s | So this is with an FTK Imager. FTK Imager is often used for acquisitions and analysis 1090.93s - 1096.09s | of files and file systems. And I know this is kind of tough to see. The only thing you 1096.09s - 1103.09s | really need to pay attention to is the little tiny yellow thing that says EXFVE, that little 1103.17s - 1107.85s | tip. And we'll see what that means later. And I'll have a blown-up so you can see that 1107.85s - 1114.37s | better. This is NCASE Forensic. This is another really common tool that is used for acquisition 1114.37s - 1121.37s | and analysis. And this is Autopsy. Autopsy is a free tool. So I'm showing you a mixture 1121.93s - 1128.33s | like NCASE costs money, FTK


chunk_text:
saying. And of course, sometimes you just take notes. 1062.57s - 1067.77s | Old-fashioned paper and pen are great for that. So I know this is a little fuzzy, but 1067.77s - 1074.77s | this is Axiom GrayKey. It's only available to law enforcement. And it's used to gather 1074.89s - 1081.89s | data off phones, typically. And it can do phone image extractions. 1083.25s - 1090.25s | So this is with an FTK Imager. FTK Imager is often used for acquisitions and analysis 1090.93s - 1096.09s | of files and file systems. And I know this is kind of tough to see. The only thing you 1096.09s - 1103.09s | really need to pay attention to is the little tiny yellow thing that says EXFVE, that little 1103.17s - 1107.85s | tip. And we'll see what that means later. And I'll have a blown-up so you can see that 1107.85s - 1114.37s | better. This is NCASE Forensic. This is another really common tool that is used for acquisition 1114.37s - 1121.37s | and analysis. And this is Autopsy. Autopsy is a free tool. So I'm showing you a mixture 1121.93s - 1128.33s | like NCASE costs money, FTK Imager is free. This tool is also free and can do all kinds 1128.33s - 1134.89s | of cool analysis, acquisition, that kind of thing. And again, we'll get into some examples 1134.89s - 1141.89s | of that later. So these are some related questions. So often because you have limited time frames, 1143.77s - 1147.81s | you have to know what you have to prioritize. Because if you only have so much time to do 1147.81s - 1153.81s | an investigation or to analyze a particular piece of evidence, then it's problematic if 1153.97s - 1158.65s | you have tons of data, right, and you have to, you know, get through it all. Maybe you're 1158.65s - 1163.17s | not going to get through it all, so maybe you need to prioritize. You need to ask if 1163.17s - 1167.01s | you're not the one on scene, or even if you are, you might ask the other folks who are 1167.01s - 1170.97s | there, did you see anything interesting? And, you know, again, is there a restriction for 1170.97s - 1176.23s | the timeline? Now, there are a lot of challenges. We've already talked about a couple of


chunk_text:
Imager is free. This tool is also free and can do all kinds 1128.33s - 1134.89s | of cool analysis, acquisition, that kind of thing. And again, we'll get into some examples 1134.89s - 1141.89s | of that later. So these are some related questions. So often because you have limited time frames, 1143.77s - 1147.81s | you have to know what you have to prioritize. Because if you only have so much time to do 1147.81s - 1153.81s | an investigation or to analyze a particular piece of evidence, then it's problematic if 1153.97s - 1158.65s | you have tons of data, right, and you have to, you know, get through it all. Maybe you're 1158.65s - 1163.17s | not going to get through it all, so maybe you need to prioritize. You need to ask if 1163.17s - 1167.01s | you're not the one on scene, or even if you are, you might ask the other folks who are 1167.01s - 1170.97s | there, did you see anything interesting? And, you know, again, is there a restriction for 1170.97s - 1176.23s | the timeline? Now, there are a lot of challenges. We've already talked about a couple of them. 1176.23s - 1180.53s | You might acquire unnecessary data. So you might take a whole bunch of systems, take 1180.53s - 1184.05s | images of things, or take systems with you that are not related at all, and you may not 1184.05s - 1191.05s | know about that. You might really need a piece of data that is completely unavailable. So 1191.05s - 1195.09s | the device is encrypted. You don't have the key. Maybe something's inaccessible. It's 1195.09s - 1200.13s | behind a login. Because by default, even doing criminal case, you don't have the right to 1200.13s - 1206.61s | necessarily log in and grab that data. You need permission for that. Again, time frames 1206.61s - 1213.89s | are always an issue. Maybe there's regulations, ISO or other regulations, right? So which 1213.89s - 1219.17s | could tell you either you have to or you can't collect certain kinds of data. Maybe the stuff 1219.17s - 1226.01s | you brought to do the collection, wrong size, wrong dongles, wrong, you know, media, whatever, 1226.01s - 1231.85s | and maybe you're doing a collection of a particular type of file system that you don't have tools 1231.85s


chunk_text:
them. 1176.23s - 1180.53s | You might acquire unnecessary data. So you might take a whole bunch of systems, take 1180.53s - 1184.05s | images of things, or take systems with you that are not related at all, and you may not 1184.05s - 1191.05s | know about that. You might really need a piece of data that is completely unavailable. So 1191.05s - 1195.09s | the device is encrypted. You don't have the key. Maybe something's inaccessible. It's 1195.09s - 1200.13s | behind a login. Because by default, even doing criminal case, you don't have the right to 1200.13s - 1206.61s | necessarily log in and grab that data. You need permission for that. Again, time frames 1206.61s - 1213.89s | are always an issue. Maybe there's regulations, ISO or other regulations, right? So which 1213.89s - 1219.17s | could tell you either you have to or you can't collect certain kinds of data. Maybe the stuff 1219.17s - 1226.01s | you brought to do the collection, wrong size, wrong dongles, wrong, you know, media, whatever, 1226.01s - 1231.85s | and maybe you're doing a collection of a particular type of file system that you don't have tools 1231.85s - 1241.37s | to collect. So this is the, that is the blown up screen of the FTK imager you saw earlier. 1241.37s - 1245.69s | Now, I can tell you that the digital forensics team, when they were working on this, they 1245.69s - 1253.90s | saw that. Does anybody recognize what that tells you? BitLocker, yeah. So the team was 1253.90s - 1260.14s | like, oh, wow, this laptop's encrypted. So what they had to do is they had to take, they 1260.14s - 1266.62s | could not take a full image, right, because they don't have the password. What happens if they 1266.62s - 1274.22s | try to take a full image of this machine without a password? Yeah. You have an encrypted brick, 1274.22s - 1279.50s | spot on, right? So instead, they take what's called a logical disk image, and the logical 1279.50s - 1284.46s | disk image will capture basically whatever you can see sitting there working on it, but it's, 1284.46s - 1298.14s | you're not going to see some of the underlying data systems. All right. The whirring of hard 1298.14s - 1302.54s | drives mingled with the soft glow of computer


chunk_text:
- 1241.37s | to collect. So this is the, that is the blown up screen of the FTK imager you saw earlier. 1241.37s - 1245.69s | Now, I can tell you that the digital forensics team, when they were working on this, they 1245.69s - 1253.90s | saw that. Does anybody recognize what that tells you? BitLocker, yeah. So the team was 1253.90s - 1260.14s | like, oh, wow, this laptop's encrypted. So what they had to do is they had to take, they 1260.14s - 1266.62s | could not take a full image, right, because they don't have the password. What happens if they 1266.62s - 1274.22s | try to take a full image of this machine without a password? Yeah. You have an encrypted brick, 1274.22s - 1279.50s | spot on, right? So instead, they take what's called a logical disk image, and the logical 1279.50s - 1284.46s | disk image will capture basically whatever you can see sitting there working on it, but it's, 1284.46s - 1298.14s | you're not going to see some of the underlying data systems. All right. The whirring of hard 1298.14s - 1302.54s | drives mingled with the soft glow of computer screens in the brightly lit forensics lab. 1303.26s - 1309.90s | Detective Hart stands at the helm, her eyes sharp and calculating. She scans the array of devices 1309.90s - 1316.06s | laid out before her, two laptops, two cell phones, each holding secrets waiting to be unearthed. 1316.86s - 1322.22s | Beside her, Maya Patel, the team's lead forensic expert, delicately examines the data retrieved 1322.22s - 1328.54s | from Alice and Bob's laptops. Meanwhile, across the room, agent Mark Thompson meticulously dissects 1328.54s - 1334.54s | the data from their cell phones, his brow furrowed in concentration. With each tap of his fingers, 1334.54s - 1340.94s | he builds back layers of text messages and call logs, his determination unwavering as he hunts 1340.94s - 1352.56s | for clues. All right. So the goals of data analysis, we're going to look for scoped indicators. 1352.56s - 1359.92s | So remember that we had some goals in terms of what we were, our objectives were. So in terms 1359.92s - 1364.56s | of being given that initial information, you know, we're looking for names, right? We might be looking 1364.56s - 1369.52s | for user accounts, anything that was


chunk_text:
screens in the brightly lit forensics lab. 1303.26s - 1309.90s | Detective Hart stands at the helm, her eyes sharp and calculating. She scans the array of devices 1309.90s - 1316.06s | laid out before her, two laptops, two cell phones, each holding secrets waiting to be unearthed. 1316.86s - 1322.22s | Beside her, Maya Patel, the team's lead forensic expert, delicately examines the data retrieved 1322.22s - 1328.54s | from Alice and Bob's laptops. Meanwhile, across the room, agent Mark Thompson meticulously dissects 1328.54s - 1334.54s | the data from their cell phones, his brow furrowed in concentration. With each tap of his fingers, 1334.54s - 1340.94s | he builds back layers of text messages and call logs, his determination unwavering as he hunts 1340.94s - 1352.56s | for clues. All right. So the goals of data analysis, we're going to look for scoped indicators. 1352.56s - 1359.92s | So remember that we had some goals in terms of what we were, our objectives were. So in terms 1359.92s - 1364.56s | of being given that initial information, you know, we're looking for names, right? We might be looking 1364.56s - 1369.52s | for user accounts, anything that was sort of point back to what we were told in the beginning. 1370.16s - 1375.68s | And then from there, we might pivot because we might find something interesting. So, you know, 1375.68s - 1379.44s | you might see a particular keyword that might take you to something else. 1380.56s - 1386.24s | You need to document those findings. And timestamps are critical. If you take nothing 1386.24s - 1393.20s | else away from this and you're interested in forensics, universal time, UTC is your friend. 1393.20s - 1398.08s | I see some smiles out there. How many of you that do digital forensics are like, oh my God, 1398.08s - 1405.36s | why won't they just give me everything in UTC? Yeah. So one of the most frustrating things is 1405.36s - 1409.92s | that you sometimes get logs in all these different time zones and then you have to correlate 1409.92s - 1414.80s | everything, which we'll talk about later. And that's a major pain in the drain. So make sure 1414.80s - 1421.44s | that you're documenting not only the time, but what time zone, whether it's UTC or not, whatever. 1423.28s - 1428.72s | You know,


chunk_text:
sort of point back to what we were told in the beginning. 1370.16s - 1375.68s | And then from there, we might pivot because we might find something interesting. So, you know, 1375.68s - 1379.44s | you might see a particular keyword that might take you to something else. 1380.56s - 1386.24s | You need to document those findings. And timestamps are critical. If you take nothing 1386.24s - 1393.20s | else away from this and you're interested in forensics, universal time, UTC is your friend. 1393.20s - 1398.08s | I see some smiles out there. How many of you that do digital forensics are like, oh my God, 1398.08s - 1405.36s | why won't they just give me everything in UTC? Yeah. So one of the most frustrating things is 1405.36s - 1409.92s | that you sometimes get logs in all these different time zones and then you have to correlate 1409.92s - 1414.80s | everything, which we'll talk about later. And that's a major pain in the drain. So make sure 1414.80s - 1421.44s | that you're documenting not only the time, but what time zone, whether it's UTC or not, whatever. 1423.28s - 1428.72s | You know, where'd you find it? You know, if there's code, you know, you want all of that 1428.72s - 1434.24s | information. And document anything that's weird that maybe you don't see that you would expect 1434.24s - 1441.84s | to see, because a lack of evidence is itself evidence. We use a bunch of different tools for 1441.84s - 1446.96s | data analysis, very similar to what we saw for collection, because a lot of these tools do the 1446.96s - 1452.48s | same thing. So we already saw a magnet gray key. They have another product called Axiom, 1452.48s - 1458.48s | which is available to regular forensicators, not just law enforcement. We talked about autopsy. 1458.48s - 1463.84s | Eric Zimmerman has some free tools. There's something called Obsidian Forensics Hindsight, 1463.84s - 1469.04s | which I believe is free. We've already mentioned NCASE, X-Ways, FTK, and there's also a product 1469.04s - 1475.20s | called NUIX. Celebrate Inspector, which is again phones, and Volatility, which is for memory 1475.20s - 1483.12s | forensics. So this is Celebrate Physical Analyzer, which again can be used to recover an image and 1483.12s - 1489.60s | do some analysis on


chunk_text:
where'd you find it? You know, if there's code, you know, you want all of that 1428.72s - 1434.24s | information. And document anything that's weird that maybe you don't see that you would expect 1434.24s - 1441.84s | to see, because a lack of evidence is itself evidence. We use a bunch of different tools for 1441.84s - 1446.96s | data analysis, very similar to what we saw for collection, because a lot of these tools do the 1446.96s - 1452.48s | same thing. So we already saw a magnet gray key. They have another product called Axiom, 1452.48s - 1458.48s | which is available to regular forensicators, not just law enforcement. We talked about autopsy. 1458.48s - 1463.84s | Eric Zimmerman has some free tools. There's something called Obsidian Forensics Hindsight, 1463.84s - 1469.04s | which I believe is free. We've already mentioned NCASE, X-Ways, FTK, and there's also a product 1469.04s - 1475.20s | called NUIX. Celebrate Inspector, which is again phones, and Volatility, which is for memory 1475.20s - 1483.12s | forensics. So this is Celebrate Physical Analyzer, which again can be used to recover an image and 1483.12s - 1489.60s | do some analysis on phones. You know, and often you use more than one tool to get the best results, 1489.60s - 1494.00s | because one tool may only give you a certain piece of what you're looking for, and sometimes 1494.00s - 1503.02s | you need two. So this is Magnet Forensic Axiom. So this is the tool that is available to anybody 1503.02s - 1512.14s | who purchases it. And again, it can be used for looking at mobile or cloud, computer, vehicle 1512.14s - 1517.18s | sources. It can do all kinds of stuff. And the evidence you're going to see today was processed 1517.18s - 1524.70s | with Axiom to provide some SMS logs. So let's take a look at that. So this is a snippet of what 1524.70s - 1532.30s | that looks like. This is Axiom Forensics, and this is the overview screen. And this is 1532.30s - 1539.92s | Hindsight Internet History Forensics, which is used for parsing internet history. Now let's talk 1539.92s - 1546.24s | about the challenges, okay? So again, you need permissions. If something's behind a login, you 1546.24s - 1550.32s | can't just go, you know, even if you're law enforcement, you


chunk_text:
phones. You know, and often you use more than one tool to get the best results, 1489.60s - 1494.00s | because one tool may only give you a certain piece of what you're looking for, and sometimes 1494.00s - 1503.02s | you need two. So this is Magnet Forensic Axiom. So this is the tool that is available to anybody 1503.02s - 1512.14s | who purchases it. And again, it can be used for looking at mobile or cloud, computer, vehicle 1512.14s - 1517.18s | sources. It can do all kinds of stuff. And the evidence you're going to see today was processed 1517.18s - 1524.70s | with Axiom to provide some SMS logs. So let's take a look at that. So this is a snippet of what 1524.70s - 1532.30s | that looks like. This is Axiom Forensics, and this is the overview screen. And this is 1532.30s - 1539.92s | Hindsight Internet History Forensics, which is used for parsing internet history. Now let's talk 1539.92s - 1546.24s | about the challenges, okay? So again, you need permissions. If something's behind a login, you 1546.24s - 1550.32s | can't just go, you know, even if you're law enforcement, you can't just be like, I'm gonna go 1550.32s - 1556.16s | looking at all the things. You might ignore relevant evidence. Perhaps you collect all kinds 1556.16s - 1561.04s | of stuff and you're like, ah, this isn't relevant, doesn't matter, I don't care about this. And that's 1561.04s - 1565.68s | really easy trap to fall into, especially if you have a ton of stuff and you're a short 1565.68s - 1570.64s | timeline. It's easy to assume something is irrelevant and then find out later maybe it wasn't. 1571.60s - 1576.88s | So maybe you don't have the right tools to analyze. Maybe you suddenly find there's malware 1576.88s - 1582.16s | on something, but the issue is really somebody who's dead. Maybe the malware is just, you know, 1582.16s - 1588.08s | they're involved in other extracurricular activities and they got malware from that. 1588.08s - 1592.96s | So you've got to be very careful you don't go down the wrong rabbit holes. It's very easy to 1592.96s - 1597.60s | get tunnel vision. I'm looking for this, I'm only looking for this, and then oops, and I'm seeing a 1597.60s - 1602.96s | bunch of nods,


chunk_text:
can't just be like, I'm gonna go 1550.32s - 1556.16s | looking at all the things. You might ignore relevant evidence. Perhaps you collect all kinds 1556.16s - 1561.04s | of stuff and you're like, ah, this isn't relevant, doesn't matter, I don't care about this. And that's 1561.04s - 1565.68s | really easy trap to fall into, especially if you have a ton of stuff and you're a short 1565.68s - 1570.64s | timeline. It's easy to assume something is irrelevant and then find out later maybe it wasn't. 1571.60s - 1576.88s | So maybe you don't have the right tools to analyze. Maybe you suddenly find there's malware 1576.88s - 1582.16s | on something, but the issue is really somebody who's dead. Maybe the malware is just, you know, 1582.16s - 1588.08s | they're involved in other extracurricular activities and they got malware from that. 1588.08s - 1592.96s | So you've got to be very careful you don't go down the wrong rabbit holes. It's very easy to 1592.96s - 1597.60s | get tunnel vision. I'm looking for this, I'm only looking for this, and then oops, and I'm seeing a 1597.60s - 1602.96s | bunch of nods, because yeah, some of you have been there. And follow through is really important, 1602.96s - 1607.04s | right? You got to follow the, once you start down that rabbit hole, you often have to follow it all 1607.04s - 1612.48s | the way down. So here's where we're going to get into what I think is the interesting stuff, 1612.48s - 1617.28s | right? The meat and potatoes. So this is an SMS conversation between Alice and Bob, 1617.84s - 1625.28s | and this is, once you take something like Axiom, you can then export the log information into a 1625.28s - 1629.76s | spreadsheet, and I know this is impossible to read. So instead, I'm going to give you the 1629.76s - 1635.68s | conversation in a much easier place to read. So I'll give you just a minute or so. We're going to 1635.68s - 1642.48s | see that, you know, Bob and Alice are having a conversation. Alice is like, Bob, we got to talk. 1643.60s - 1649.76s | And ultimately, when we get to the end, because there's one more slide here, 1654.72s - 1661.44s | so what's the tone here? What do we think?


chunk_text:
because yeah, some of you have been there. And follow through is really important, 1602.96s - 1607.04s | right? You got to follow the, once you start down that rabbit hole, you often have to follow it all 1607.04s - 1612.48s | the way down. So here's where we're going to get into what I think is the interesting stuff, 1612.48s - 1617.28s | right? The meat and potatoes. So this is an SMS conversation between Alice and Bob, 1617.84s - 1625.28s | and this is, once you take something like Axiom, you can then export the log information into a 1625.28s - 1629.76s | spreadsheet, and I know this is impossible to read. So instead, I'm going to give you the 1629.76s - 1635.68s | conversation in a much easier place to read. So I'll give you just a minute or so. We're going to 1635.68s - 1642.48s | see that, you know, Bob and Alice are having a conversation. Alice is like, Bob, we got to talk. 1643.60s - 1649.76s | And ultimately, when we get to the end, because there's one more slide here, 1654.72s - 1661.44s | so what's the tone here? What do we think? Hostile, right? How about on this one? 1667.50s - 1673.02s | This is a continuation of the previous. There's one more. Yeah, it's threatening, right? 1674.62s - 1684.64s | Yeah. How about how it ends? Yeah, not good, right? She's kind of digging a hole. 1686.67s - 1692.99s | So we get some information from PD. They let us know that Alice's fingerprints were all over the 1692.99s - 1697.79s | victim's house, including on a kitchen knife, that has a profile that's very similar to the 1697.79s - 1706.92s | murder weapon. Interesting. There's also some evidence that is a conversation between Bob B, 1707.72s - 1715.64s | we know Bob Byte, right, and some mystery person. So Agent Thompson shows this to you 1716.20s - 1721.56s | and makes it much easier to read this way. This is a much shorter conversation. 1725.66s - 1734.57s | So this seems, what, a little sketch, but, you know, okay. So, I mean, this is just some evidence 1734.57s - 1742.08s | that's collected. So then the PD comes back. They've been, you know, talking to folks to find 1742.08s - 1747.92s | out more information. And they find out they're


chunk_text:
Hostile, right? How about on this one? 1667.50s - 1673.02s | This is a continuation of the previous. There's one more. Yeah, it's threatening, right? 1674.62s - 1684.64s | Yeah. How about how it ends? Yeah, not good, right? She's kind of digging a hole. 1686.67s - 1692.99s | So we get some information from PD. They let us know that Alice's fingerprints were all over the 1692.99s - 1697.79s | victim's house, including on a kitchen knife, that has a profile that's very similar to the 1697.79s - 1706.92s | murder weapon. Interesting. There's also some evidence that is a conversation between Bob B, 1707.72s - 1715.64s | we know Bob Byte, right, and some mystery person. So Agent Thompson shows this to you 1716.20s - 1721.56s | and makes it much easier to read this way. This is a much shorter conversation. 1725.66s - 1734.57s | So this seems, what, a little sketch, but, you know, okay. So, I mean, this is just some evidence 1734.57s - 1742.08s | that's collected. So then the PD comes back. They've been, you know, talking to folks to find 1742.08s - 1747.92s | out more information. And they find out they're really concerned about Bob, because Alice has 1747.92s - 1754.40s | a temper. We don't know that at all from reading the evidence we saw, right? And they also noted 1754.40s - 1759.36s | that Bob, the neighbors have said, gee, Bob seems to have folks that come all hours of the night. 1760.08s - 1764.40s | And maybe drugs, maybe there's some drug smuggling, something going on there. Interesting. 1767.88s - 1773.80s | So then they start looking at some email logs. And the tool that's used here is called Paraben 1773.80s - 1781.56s | E3. This is a tool that's specifically used to investigate email. And Maya shows you this and 1781.56s - 1787.72s | says, huh, this is a Lyft receipt she got from Alice's computer. And it indicates that Alice did, 1787.72s - 1793.08s | in fact, travel to Bob's house on the day of the murder. And here is it blown up, so you can see 1793.08s - 1798.92s | it a little better. So we can see the pickup at 123 Main Street, which we know is Alice's house, 1799.56s - 1806.36s | and the drop off at 456 Central Avenue. And we see


chunk_text:
really concerned about Bob, because Alice has 1747.92s - 1754.40s | a temper. We don't know that at all from reading the evidence we saw, right? And they also noted 1754.40s - 1759.36s | that Bob, the neighbors have said, gee, Bob seems to have folks that come all hours of the night. 1760.08s - 1764.40s | And maybe drugs, maybe there's some drug smuggling, something going on there. Interesting. 1767.88s - 1773.80s | So then they start looking at some email logs. And the tool that's used here is called Paraben 1773.80s - 1781.56s | E3. This is a tool that's specifically used to investigate email. And Maya shows you this and 1781.56s - 1787.72s | says, huh, this is a Lyft receipt she got from Alice's computer. And it indicates that Alice did, 1787.72s - 1793.08s | in fact, travel to Bob's house on the day of the murder. And here is it blown up, so you can see 1793.08s - 1798.92s | it a little better. So we can see the pickup at 123 Main Street, which we know is Alice's house, 1799.56s - 1806.36s | and the drop off at 456 Central Avenue. And we see that this is, in fact, at least one of Alice's 1806.36s - 1820.08s | emails. We'll get there. Good observation, though. As the hours stretched on, the team's 1820.08s - 1824.96s | efforts began to yield results. Maya unearthed a number of potentially important emails from the 1824.96s - 1829.92s | laptop, while Mark's fingers fly across the keyboard, cross-referencing timestamps and 1829.92s - 1837.12s | GPS coordinates in a relentless pursuit of the truth. His analysis of metadata ultimately reveals 1837.12s - 1841.44s | a pattern of communication that can be linked to the prime suspect in this case. 1842.16s - 1845.68s | Through trial and error, they each piece together fragments and information, 1846.40s - 1851.12s | every breakthrough bringing them one step closer to unlocking the answers they are seeking. 1855.36s - 1863.31s | So once we have all of this data, we need to correlate it, right? Bring all of this stuff 1863.31s - 1868.75s | together from all these different places that we pulled it, normalize the findings. Again, 1868.75s - 1875.31s | timestamps are your friend, and they need to all be in one UTC time zone so that you get a much 1875.31s


chunk_text:
that this is, in fact, at least one of Alice's 1806.36s - 1820.08s | emails. We'll get there. Good observation, though. As the hours stretched on, the team's 1820.08s - 1824.96s | efforts began to yield results. Maya unearthed a number of potentially important emails from the 1824.96s - 1829.92s | laptop, while Mark's fingers fly across the keyboard, cross-referencing timestamps and 1829.92s - 1837.12s | GPS coordinates in a relentless pursuit of the truth. His analysis of metadata ultimately reveals 1837.12s - 1841.44s | a pattern of communication that can be linked to the prime suspect in this case. 1842.16s - 1845.68s | Through trial and error, they each piece together fragments and information, 1846.40s - 1851.12s | every breakthrough bringing them one step closer to unlocking the answers they are seeking. 1855.36s - 1863.31s | So once we have all of this data, we need to correlate it, right? Bring all of this stuff 1863.31s - 1868.75s | together from all these different places that we pulled it, normalize the findings. Again, 1868.75s - 1875.31s | timestamps are your friend, and they need to all be in one UTC time zone so that you get a much 1875.31s - 1881.39s | better picture of what happened. And then we're going to look for some patterns, which will help 1881.39s - 1886.59s | us build a picture of what actually happened. So how do we do that? Well, we use some tools, 1887.39s - 1892.43s | things like mind mapping software, and I've given some examples, but good old pen and paper, 1892.43s - 1898.43s | even a regular old spreadsheet can be good for that. In this case, so far, what do we have? Well, 1898.99s - 1904.91s | we have SMS messages from Bob and Alice's phones. We saw the email. We got some information from 1904.91s - 1912.91s | PD. We can run into challenges at this particular place, too. Not enough context might be provided. 1913.47s - 1918.43s | We might dismiss something as irrelevant, again, back to timeframes. We might just not take the 1918.43s - 1929.28s | time to correlate. So then we're going to build a timeline. In the hushed confines of the digital 1929.28s - 1934.16s | forensic lab, the team gathered around a large whiteboard, their eyes fixed on the intricate 1934.16s - 1939.12s | timeline taking shape before them.


chunk_text:
- 1881.39s | better picture of what happened. And then we're going to look for some patterns, which will help 1881.39s - 1886.59s | us build a picture of what actually happened. So how do we do that? Well, we use some tools, 1887.39s - 1892.43s | things like mind mapping software, and I've given some examples, but good old pen and paper, 1892.43s - 1898.43s | even a regular old spreadsheet can be good for that. In this case, so far, what do we have? Well, 1898.99s - 1904.91s | we have SMS messages from Bob and Alice's phones. We saw the email. We got some information from 1904.91s - 1912.91s | PD. We can run into challenges at this particular place, too. Not enough context might be provided. 1913.47s - 1918.43s | We might dismiss something as irrelevant, again, back to timeframes. We might just not take the 1918.43s - 1929.28s | time to correlate. So then we're going to build a timeline. In the hushed confines of the digital 1929.28s - 1934.16s | forensic lab, the team gathered around a large whiteboard, their eyes fixed on the intricate 1934.16s - 1939.12s | timeline taking shape before them. Detective Hart stands at the forefront, her gaze intent, 1939.12s - 1944.16s | as she directs the assembly of evidence into a coherent narrative. Next to her, Maya and Mark 1944.16s - 1948.80s | meticulously arranged timestamps and digital artifacts, weaving together threads of data to 1948.80s - 1954.16s | reveal the chronological sequence of events they uncovered. Each piece of information begins to fit 1954.16s - 1961.60s | into the puzzle that was the grand design of their investigation. Across the room, Dr. Maya Rodriguez, 1961.60s - 1965.76s | the forensic psychologist, examines the psychological profiles of the individuals 1965.76s - 1972.24s | involved, her insights providing a crucial layer of context to the timeline. With each revelation, 1972.24s - 1977.52s | she uncovers the layers of motive and intent, shedding light on the human elements driving 1977.52s - 1985.90s | the digital drama. Why is it important that we have someone like that involved? Any guesses? 1989.48s - 1995.24s | Right. I mean, there's so much that we don't know, right? So understanding the people involved can be 1995.24s - 2000.20s | crucial. And what did I say digital forensics itself is not good at? It's not good


chunk_text:
Detective Hart stands at the forefront, her gaze intent, 1939.12s - 1944.16s | as she directs the assembly of evidence into a coherent narrative. Next to her, Maya and Mark 1944.16s - 1948.80s | meticulously arranged timestamps and digital artifacts, weaving together threads of data to 1948.80s - 1954.16s | reveal the chronological sequence of events they uncovered. Each piece of information begins to fit 1954.16s - 1961.60s | into the puzzle that was the grand design of their investigation. Across the room, Dr. Maya Rodriguez, 1961.60s - 1965.76s | the forensic psychologist, examines the psychological profiles of the individuals 1965.76s - 1972.24s | involved, her insights providing a crucial layer of context to the timeline. With each revelation, 1972.24s - 1977.52s | she uncovers the layers of motive and intent, shedding light on the human elements driving 1977.52s - 1985.90s | the digital drama. Why is it important that we have someone like that involved? Any guesses? 1989.48s - 1995.24s | Right. I mean, there's so much that we don't know, right? So understanding the people involved can be 1995.24s - 2000.20s | crucial. And what did I say digital forensics itself is not good at? It's not good at people, 2000.20s - 2006.04s | right? It can tell you that a human probably was at a keyboard doing a thing, but it can't 2006.04s - 2013.64s | necessarily tell you who or why. All right. So the goals of timeline analysis, we're going to 2013.64s - 2020.36s | be looking for timestamps with everything. Again, UTC. Make sure you understand the attributes that 2020.36s - 2025.56s | you're collecting, and then we're going to create a timeline. So tools that can be used with that 2025.56s - 2033.48s | for that purpose. Again, Axiom. There's also a free tool called Log2Timeline. Excel is great. 2033.48s - 2041.16s | There's a free tool called Timeline Explorer. We can have challenges with this. Maybe the timestamps 2041.16s - 2047.24s | are missing, and maybe we don't know the particular time zones. Maybe we just forget about timestamps 2047.88s - 2055.39s | and we just overlook them. So this is the tiny timeline of what we've uncovered so far. 2056.03s - 2061.95s | We know that Alice sends Bob threatening texts. We know when Bob is killed. And then Bob is 2061.95s - 2069.23s | discovered deceased. So what is your


chunk_text:
at people, 2000.20s - 2006.04s | right? It can tell you that a human probably was at a keyboard doing a thing, but it can't 2006.04s - 2013.64s | necessarily tell you who or why. All right. So the goals of timeline analysis, we're going to 2013.64s - 2020.36s | be looking for timestamps with everything. Again, UTC. Make sure you understand the attributes that 2020.36s - 2025.56s | you're collecting, and then we're going to create a timeline. So tools that can be used with that 2025.56s - 2033.48s | for that purpose. Again, Axiom. There's also a free tool called Log2Timeline. Excel is great. 2033.48s - 2041.16s | There's a free tool called Timeline Explorer. We can have challenges with this. Maybe the timestamps 2041.16s - 2047.24s | are missing, and maybe we don't know the particular time zones. Maybe we just forget about timestamps 2047.88s - 2055.39s | and we just overlook them. So this is the tiny timeline of what we've uncovered so far. 2056.03s - 2061.95s | We know that Alice sends Bob threatening texts. We know when Bob is killed. And then Bob is 2061.95s - 2069.23s | discovered deceased. So what is your initial hypothesis based on the evidence provided? 2077.02s - 2082.30s | Well, yeah, I mean, it's an interesting question, but if you only had what I gave you so far, 2082.86s - 2093.40s | what does it appear to be? That Alice did it, right? Okay. So initially, our hypothesis is Alice 2093.40s - 2100.04s | killed Bob. Because this is scientific evidence-based forensics, we're always going to do 2100.84s - 2106.04s | a hypothesis and then see if we can prove the hypothesis or disprove the hypothesis. 2106.04s - 2113.00s | Who here has seen the movie Clue? A bunch of you. Okay. So that's how it could have happened. 2115.45s - 2119.29s | And Detective Hart looks at you when you come up with that hypothesis and says, 2119.85s - 2125.85s | hmm, there's evidence that suggests that could in fact be the case. But have you exhausted your 2125.85s - 2130.33s | search of all the evidence? Because I hear PD still has some information for all of you. 2131.29s - 2138.89s | And they might have more information for us soon. So how about this? And look, we're back to data 2138.89s - 2144.49s | analysis


chunk_text:
initial hypothesis based on the evidence provided? 2077.02s - 2082.30s | Well, yeah, I mean, it's an interesting question, but if you only had what I gave you so far, 2082.86s - 2093.40s | what does it appear to be? That Alice did it, right? Okay. So initially, our hypothesis is Alice 2093.40s - 2100.04s | killed Bob. Because this is scientific evidence-based forensics, we're always going to do 2100.84s - 2106.04s | a hypothesis and then see if we can prove the hypothesis or disprove the hypothesis. 2106.04s - 2113.00s | Who here has seen the movie Clue? A bunch of you. Okay. So that's how it could have happened. 2115.45s - 2119.29s | And Detective Hart looks at you when you come up with that hypothesis and says, 2119.85s - 2125.85s | hmm, there's evidence that suggests that could in fact be the case. But have you exhausted your 2125.85s - 2130.33s | search of all the evidence? Because I hear PD still has some information for all of you. 2131.29s - 2138.89s | And they might have more information for us soon. So how about this? And look, we're back to data 2138.89s - 2144.49s | analysis again, because we're going to look at some more data. So I know one of you caught this, 2145.29s - 2155.79s | right? What did we not focus on when we looked at this the first time? The timestamp, right? 2155.79s - 2163.71s | The timestamp was an hour after Bob was dead. So Alice went there, but a little too late to 2163.71s - 2174.27s | kill him if he's already dead. A little weird. And then Maya discovers on Bob's machine that 2174.27s - 2179.07s | there was some web activity. And if you look carefully at some of this web activity, 2180.27s - 2187.95s | again, the timestamps are showing you after his time of death. Very strange. And if you look at 2187.95s - 2195.07s | some of the descriptions here, we see some phishing things and some relationship counseling, 2195.07s - 2202.40s | because we know there was a relationship going on there. Kind of interesting. So then we look 2202.40s - 2209.84s | further. Maya continues to look for evidence on Alice's email. She finds another email address. 2209.84s - 2218.60s | And she finds this very peculiar thing in Alice's email. What do


chunk_text:
again, because we're going to look at some more data. So I know one of you caught this, 2145.29s - 2155.79s | right? What did we not focus on when we looked at this the first time? The timestamp, right? 2155.79s - 2163.71s | The timestamp was an hour after Bob was dead. So Alice went there, but a little too late to 2163.71s - 2174.27s | kill him if he's already dead. A little weird. And then Maya discovers on Bob's machine that 2174.27s - 2179.07s | there was some web activity. And if you look carefully at some of this web activity, 2180.27s - 2187.95s | again, the timestamps are showing you after his time of death. Very strange. And if you look at 2187.95s - 2195.07s | some of the descriptions here, we see some phishing things and some relationship counseling, 2195.07s - 2202.40s | because we know there was a relationship going on there. Kind of interesting. So then we look 2202.40s - 2209.84s | further. Maya continues to look for evidence on Alice's email. She finds another email address. 2209.84s - 2218.60s | And she finds this very peculiar thing in Alice's email. What do you see here? 2220.88s - 2228.32s | Bob's password and username, right? Huh. Interesting. So PD comes back to you and says, 2229.28s - 2236.08s | I interviewed Alice Askey, and she found when she got there, Alice admitted she found him deceased 2236.72s - 2242.48s | and knew she would be somebody they would look at. And she was so freaked out that she thought, 2242.48s - 2247.84s | I know, I'll log into Bob's machine, I'll pretend to be Bob, and it'll be fine, because then they'll 2247.84s - 2255.04s | know it wasn't, you know, it was somebody else. So she admits to this. So uh-oh, it's not Alice. 2255.28s - 2265.58s | So here's what really happened. Just as they thought they were closing in on their target, 2265.58s - 2271.10s | a new challenge presents itself. A strange file containing a bunch of random characters 2271.10s - 2276.06s | buried deep within the directory of Bob's computer. Determined not to be thwarted, 2276.06s - 2280.70s | the team pooled their expertise, each member contributing their unique skills to uncover 2280.70s - 2286.30s | this latest mystery, which turned out to be an encrypted file. And


chunk_text:
you see here? 2220.88s - 2228.32s | Bob's password and username, right? Huh. Interesting. So PD comes back to you and says, 2229.28s - 2236.08s | I interviewed Alice Askey, and she found when she got there, Alice admitted she found him deceased 2236.72s - 2242.48s | and knew she would be somebody they would look at. And she was so freaked out that she thought, 2242.48s - 2247.84s | I know, I'll log into Bob's machine, I'll pretend to be Bob, and it'll be fine, because then they'll 2247.84s - 2255.04s | know it wasn't, you know, it was somebody else. So she admits to this. So uh-oh, it's not Alice. 2255.28s - 2265.58s | So here's what really happened. Just as they thought they were closing in on their target, 2265.58s - 2271.10s | a new challenge presents itself. A strange file containing a bunch of random characters 2271.10s - 2276.06s | buried deep within the directory of Bob's computer. Determined not to be thwarted, 2276.06s - 2280.70s | the team pooled their expertise, each member contributing their unique skills to uncover 2280.70s - 2286.30s | this latest mystery, which turned out to be an encrypted file. And finally, as the first light 2286.62s - 2290.14s | And finally, as the first light of dawn filtered through the windows of the lab, 2290.78s - 2296.06s | they triumphed. The encrypted file yielding its secrets and providing the missing piece 2296.06s - 2303.50s | of the puzzle they needed to solve the case. The team sat down to just, oh, I'm sorry, 2303.50s - 2314.51s | that's the next bit. So PD comes back to you. Remember that thread we saw, that conversation 2314.51s - 2320.59s | between Bob and some mystery person? Well, it turns out that was somebody named Charlie C. 2321.39s - 2327.82s | We're back to data analysis again, because now we need some stuff about Charlie C. 2328.38s - 2335.98s | But as we're looking, this is where Maya discovers this very strange encrypted file. 2337.10s - 2345.50s | It's a strange size. It's certainly nothing obvious. It's kind of hard to see, but it's a 2346.38s - 2352.94s | file that, well, let me go back a slide here. You can see that it's Microsoft. It looks like 2352.94s - 2360.78s | Minesweeper, but it's a weird name and a very strange size.


chunk_text:
finally, as the first light 2286.62s - 2290.14s | And finally, as the first light of dawn filtered through the windows of the lab, 2290.78s - 2296.06s | they triumphed. The encrypted file yielding its secrets and providing the missing piece 2296.06s - 2303.50s | of the puzzle they needed to solve the case. The team sat down to just, oh, I'm sorry, 2303.50s - 2314.51s | that's the next bit. So PD comes back to you. Remember that thread we saw, that conversation 2314.51s - 2320.59s | between Bob and some mystery person? Well, it turns out that was somebody named Charlie C. 2321.39s - 2327.82s | We're back to data analysis again, because now we need some stuff about Charlie C. 2328.38s - 2335.98s | But as we're looking, this is where Maya discovers this very strange encrypted file. 2337.10s - 2345.50s | It's a strange size. It's certainly nothing obvious. It's kind of hard to see, but it's a 2346.38s - 2352.94s | file that, well, let me go back a slide here. You can see that it's Microsoft. It looks like 2352.94s - 2360.78s | Minesweeper, but it's a weird name and a very strange size. And the gobbledygook that you see 2360.78s - 2366.38s | in this what's called a hex editor, for those of you unfamiliar, this tells us this file is 2366.38s - 2372.94s | encrypted. And because it's encrypted, Maya starts looking for other things having to do with 2372.94s - 2380.94s | encryption. And she finds something called VeriCrypt installed on Bob's laptop. She knows 2380.94s - 2388.78s | that that software can create an encrypted file. And she also has a tool called TC Detective. 2389.50s - 2396.14s | She runs that tool against this weird file and, in fact, confirms this is the tool that was used 2396.14s - 2405.58s | to encrypt that file. Hmm. It's just a piece of Python code. So this is something called 2405.58s - 2412.14s | Shell Bag Explorer that Maya runs. And, again, I'll show you this blown up so you can see it 2412.14s - 2418.14s | better. But Shell Bag Explorer is a free tool that you can use to explore something called a shell 2418.14s - 2425.02s | bag. What is a shell bag? It is a registry entry that shows you information about user preferences 2425.02s - 2432.70s


chunk_text:
And the gobbledygook that you see 2360.78s - 2366.38s | in this what's called a hex editor, for those of you unfamiliar, this tells us this file is 2366.38s - 2372.94s | encrypted. And because it's encrypted, Maya starts looking for other things having to do with 2372.94s - 2380.94s | encryption. And she finds something called VeriCrypt installed on Bob's laptop. She knows 2380.94s - 2388.78s | that that software can create an encrypted file. And she also has a tool called TC Detective. 2389.50s - 2396.14s | She runs that tool against this weird file and, in fact, confirms this is the tool that was used 2396.14s - 2405.58s | to encrypt that file. Hmm. It's just a piece of Python code. So this is something called 2405.58s - 2412.14s | Shell Bag Explorer that Maya runs. And, again, I'll show you this blown up so you can see it 2412.14s - 2418.14s | better. But Shell Bag Explorer is a free tool that you can use to explore something called a shell 2418.14s - 2425.02s | bag. What is a shell bag? It is a registry entry that shows you information about user preferences 2425.02s - 2432.70s | and some of their activities. In this particular case, it shows you a really weird mount point 2432.70s - 2440.30s | called secret stuff. Because that doesn't sound sketch at all. So it can show you this tool, 2440.30s - 2444.62s | things like right clicks and mount points. And it's part of, for those of you familiar, 2445.26s - 2453.02s | registry keys called end user dot dat and user class dot dat. So what we see here is this, 2453.66s - 2459.58s | you know, again, this path. Very interesting. And then PD comes back and they say, hey, 2459.58s - 2467.34s | check it out. We found this post it note with some passwords. And Maya says, I wonder what I 2467.34s - 2476.70s | can do with those. So she gets a copy of Veracrypt on her forensic machine and she loads it up and 2476.70s - 2482.70s | she gets a copy of this file and she mounts it with Veracrypt and it is successful and she opens 2482.70s - 2494.75s | it. And in this, she finds five files. Four weird pictures of money and a text file. Hmm. These are 2494.75s -


chunk_text:
| and some of their activities. In this particular case, it shows you a really weird mount point 2432.70s - 2440.30s | called secret stuff. Because that doesn't sound sketch at all. So it can show you this tool, 2440.30s - 2444.62s | things like right clicks and mount points. And it's part of, for those of you familiar, 2445.26s - 2453.02s | registry keys called end user dot dat and user class dot dat. So what we see here is this, 2453.66s - 2459.58s | you know, again, this path. Very interesting. And then PD comes back and they say, hey, 2459.58s - 2467.34s | check it out. We found this post it note with some passwords. And Maya says, I wonder what I 2467.34s - 2476.70s | can do with those. So she gets a copy of Veracrypt on her forensic machine and she loads it up and 2476.70s - 2482.70s | she gets a copy of this file and she mounts it with Veracrypt and it is successful and she opens 2482.70s - 2494.75s | it. And in this, she finds five files. Four weird pictures of money and a text file. Hmm. These are 2494.75s - 2500.35s | the, or five weird pictures of money. So here's some pictures of money. Anybody see anything 2500.35s - 2507.23s | common about this, these pictures of money? Yes. The serial numbers, right? Don't say too much. 2507.23s - 2513.87s | Who here knows exactly what this is when you looked at it? A couple of you, right? Typically 2513.87s - 2519.63s | it's folks who either work with law enforcement or know law enforcement folks, but we'll get there. 2522.08s - 2528.88s | She initially doesn't think they're relevant at all. But, hmm. So then you have a further 2528.88s - 2535.36s | conversation with Detective Hart and you find out Charlie C is known for dealings in his drug world 2535.36s - 2544.32s | and he is, in fact, Charlie Cyber. You look at that text file and you realize this is some kind 2544.32s - 2552.88s | of ledger file and we see some names that we recognize, right? Alice, Bob, and now Charlie. 2554.24s - 2563.92s | So that's interesting. Then PD says, ooh, there's a ring camera. We just discovered it. It has a view 2563.92s - 2570.56s | toward the victim's back door.


chunk_text:
2500.35s | the, or five weird pictures of money. So here's some pictures of money. Anybody see anything 2500.35s - 2507.23s | common about this, these pictures of money? Yes. The serial numbers, right? Don't say too much. 2507.23s - 2513.87s | Who here knows exactly what this is when you looked at it? A couple of you, right? Typically 2513.87s - 2519.63s | it's folks who either work with law enforcement or know law enforcement folks, but we'll get there. 2522.08s - 2528.88s | She initially doesn't think they're relevant at all. But, hmm. So then you have a further 2528.88s - 2535.36s | conversation with Detective Hart and you find out Charlie C is known for dealings in his drug world 2535.36s - 2544.32s | and he is, in fact, Charlie Cyber. You look at that text file and you realize this is some kind 2544.32s - 2552.88s | of ledger file and we see some names that we recognize, right? Alice, Bob, and now Charlie. 2554.24s - 2563.92s | So that's interesting. Then PD says, ooh, there's a ring camera. We just discovered it. It has a view 2563.92s - 2570.56s | toward the victim's back door. And camera footage obtained from it shows Charlie Cyber entering Bob's 2570.56s - 2578.24s | house via the back door moments before Bob's death and exiting shortly thereafter. So now we 2578.24s - 2584.24s | have more data we have to correlate. These are all the pieces we have to correlate, right? So back to 2584.24s - 2590.40s | the beginning, all the SMS messages, the emails, the encrypted space with the hidden file, the reports 2590.40s - 2600.97s | from PD, the ring camera. PD comes back to you, the forensicators, and says, oh, oh, those pictures 2600.97s - 2609.85s | of money. So those are actually used by drug dealers. Drug dealers, so when you're a drug dealer 2609.85s - 2613.45s | and you're dealing with other drug dealers and they don't necessarily know who each other are, 2614.81s - 2619.53s | funny this, they don't go, look, this is my ID. See, this is me. It's who you thought it was, right? 2620.09s - 2626.09s | So the way they do identity matching is that they will give you part of a serial number and when you 2626.09s - 2631.45s | meet, you show them the whole


chunk_text:
And camera footage obtained from it shows Charlie Cyber entering Bob's 2570.56s - 2578.24s | house via the back door moments before Bob's death and exiting shortly thereafter. So now we 2578.24s - 2584.24s | have more data we have to correlate. These are all the pieces we have to correlate, right? So back to 2584.24s - 2590.40s | the beginning, all the SMS messages, the emails, the encrypted space with the hidden file, the reports 2590.40s - 2600.97s | from PD, the ring camera. PD comes back to you, the forensicators, and says, oh, oh, those pictures 2600.97s - 2609.85s | of money. So those are actually used by drug dealers. Drug dealers, so when you're a drug dealer 2609.85s - 2613.45s | and you're dealing with other drug dealers and they don't necessarily know who each other are, 2614.81s - 2619.53s | funny this, they don't go, look, this is my ID. See, this is me. It's who you thought it was, right? 2620.09s - 2626.09s | So the way they do identity matching is that they will give you part of a serial number and when you 2626.09s - 2631.45s | meet, you show them the whole serial number and that's how they know that it's the same person 2632.09s - 2635.45s | that they've been communicating with and the person they're supposed to do the deal with. 2636.09s - 2639.85s | And this is something that law enforcement actually sees on a fairly regular basis. 2642.32s - 2650.64s | So based on all that evidence, what we ultimately determine is that Charlie killed Bob. And if we 2650.64s - 2657.28s | think back about that conversation between now we know Bob and Charlie, right, 2658.96s - 2667.76s | who was trying to get out of working with him? What did Bob want to do? Yeah, Bob wanted out. 2667.76s - 2673.28s | He was like, I'm going on my own. I'm going to do my thing. And Charlie didn't seem real happy 2673.28s - 2678.00s | about that. But that didn't necessarily seem relevant until we had the rest of these pieces 2678.08s - 2681.28s | and found out there were drug dealings and that's actually what was going on. 2683.48s - 2693.52s | All right. The team sat down to discuss the case they had just concluded. 2693.52s - 2700.32s | Each one took their


chunk_text:
serial number and that's how they know that it's the same person 2632.09s - 2635.45s | that they've been communicating with and the person they're supposed to do the deal with. 2636.09s - 2639.85s | And this is something that law enforcement actually sees on a fairly regular basis. 2642.32s - 2650.64s | So based on all that evidence, what we ultimately determine is that Charlie killed Bob. And if we 2650.64s - 2657.28s | think back about that conversation between now we know Bob and Charlie, right, 2658.96s - 2667.76s | who was trying to get out of working with him? What did Bob want to do? Yeah, Bob wanted out. 2667.76s - 2673.28s | He was like, I'm going on my own. I'm going to do my thing. And Charlie didn't seem real happy 2673.28s - 2678.00s | about that. But that didn't necessarily seem relevant until we had the rest of these pieces 2678.08s - 2681.28s | and found out there were drug dealings and that's actually what was going on. 2683.48s - 2693.52s | All right. The team sat down to discuss the case they had just concluded. 2693.52s - 2700.32s | Each one took their place at the table. Their expressions, a mix of exhaustion and satisfaction, 2700.32s - 2706.16s | a testament to the arduous journey they had undertaken to solve this mystery. Detective 2706.16s - 2710.88s | Hart opened the meeting with a solemn nod, signaling the start of their post-incident 2710.88s - 2716.40s | analysis. Her guys swept across the room before settling on the whiteboard in front of them, 2716.40s - 2721.44s | where a timeline of events was displayed in meticulous detail. All right, everyone, 2721.44s - 2726.00s | let's begin, she said in her voice, steady and authoritative. 2727.60s - 2732.08s | So just because we've solved the case effectively and all the pieces have come together, 2732.64s - 2739.12s | that does not mean we're done. We've got goals, what are called post-incident goals. 2739.76s - 2746.00s | And these are critical as well. We need to discuss what went well and what did not go well. Maybe we 2746.00s - 2751.44s | didn't have the right tools. Maybe we did things in the wrong order. Maybe we didn't look carefully 2751.44s - 2758.32s | at all of our evidence as we saw here, right? What outcomes were


chunk_text:
place at the table. Their expressions, a mix of exhaustion and satisfaction, 2700.32s - 2706.16s | a testament to the arduous journey they had undertaken to solve this mystery. Detective 2706.16s - 2710.88s | Hart opened the meeting with a solemn nod, signaling the start of their post-incident 2710.88s - 2716.40s | analysis. Her guys swept across the room before settling on the whiteboard in front of them, 2716.40s - 2721.44s | where a timeline of events was displayed in meticulous detail. All right, everyone, 2721.44s - 2726.00s | let's begin, she said in her voice, steady and authoritative. 2727.60s - 2732.08s | So just because we've solved the case effectively and all the pieces have come together, 2732.64s - 2739.12s | that does not mean we're done. We've got goals, what are called post-incident goals. 2739.76s - 2746.00s | And these are critical as well. We need to discuss what went well and what did not go well. Maybe we 2746.00s - 2751.44s | didn't have the right tools. Maybe we did things in the wrong order. Maybe we didn't look carefully 2751.44s - 2758.32s | at all of our evidence as we saw here, right? What outcomes were achieved, positive and negative, 2758.32s - 2763.04s | because again, we kind of want to look at this whole big picture. We need feedback from all the 2763.04s - 2767.84s | different teams that are involved because nobody does this stuff in a vacuum. And one of the 2767.84s - 2772.16s | challenges in many cases is that forensicators and the detectives, while they work together, 2772.16s - 2779.76s | they're often separated significantly. Technical challenges that maybe can be handled later on. 2780.56s - 2786.24s | And you want to document everything that happened and didn't happen. So if you attempted something 2786.24s - 2792.64s | and it didn't work, that all has to be documented as well. What do we use to document that? Well, 2792.72s - 2798.32s | you know, paper, pen, computer, you know, whatever it takes, right? It can be, theoretically, it 2798.32s - 2802.08s | continued to be photographs and all the kinds of things we've talked about for documentation. 2803.68s - 2810.56s | The challenges involved in all of this, lots of folks forget to document. They just are in too 2810.56s - 2813.84s | much of a hurry and they don't write


chunk_text:
achieved, positive and negative, 2758.32s - 2763.04s | because again, we kind of want to look at this whole big picture. We need feedback from all the 2763.04s - 2767.84s | different teams that are involved because nobody does this stuff in a vacuum. And one of the 2767.84s - 2772.16s | challenges in many cases is that forensicators and the detectives, while they work together, 2772.16s - 2779.76s | they're often separated significantly. Technical challenges that maybe can be handled later on. 2780.56s - 2786.24s | And you want to document everything that happened and didn't happen. So if you attempted something 2786.24s - 2792.64s | and it didn't work, that all has to be documented as well. What do we use to document that? Well, 2792.72s - 2798.32s | you know, paper, pen, computer, you know, whatever it takes, right? It can be, theoretically, it 2798.32s - 2802.08s | continued to be photographs and all the kinds of things we've talked about for documentation. 2803.68s - 2810.56s | The challenges involved in all of this, lots of folks forget to document. They just are in too 2810.56s - 2813.84s | much of a hurry and they don't write up a report. And then by the time they actually need that 2813.84s - 2819.76s | information, it's way too late and they forget things. You could forget to document specific 2819.76s - 2824.08s | things. You might document something that didn't happen because you started down a rabbit hole and 2824.08s - 2827.76s | you knew that's what was going to happen and so you started writing it down and then you find out, 2827.76s - 2834.48s | oops, and you forget to delete that. Or you go down that path and instead of deleting, you say, 2834.48s - 2838.72s | well, we thought it was this, but we, you know, we got to a point and it wasn't that. 2840.48s - 2844.08s | Another problem is the full story could not be told through documentation. 2844.96s - 2848.72s | It requires the reader to make assumptions and that's not a good thing either. 2849.52s - 2857.84s | And an after-action report should always be held. So that is ultimately the story of Alice and Bob. 2859.60s - 2864.00s | I have to do a little tiny bit of shameless self-promotion here. I have a book here called 2864.00s


chunk_text:
up a report. And then by the time they actually need that 2813.84s - 2819.76s | information, it's way too late and they forget things. You could forget to document specific 2819.76s - 2824.08s | things. You might document something that didn't happen because you started down a rabbit hole and 2824.08s - 2827.76s | you knew that's what was going to happen and so you started writing it down and then you find out, 2827.76s - 2834.48s | oops, and you forget to delete that. Or you go down that path and instead of deleting, you say, 2834.48s - 2838.72s | well, we thought it was this, but we, you know, we got to a point and it wasn't that. 2840.48s - 2844.08s | Another problem is the full story could not be told through documentation. 2844.96s - 2848.72s | It requires the reader to make assumptions and that's not a good thing either. 2849.52s - 2857.84s | And an after-action report should always be held. So that is ultimately the story of Alice and Bob. 2859.60s - 2864.00s | I have to do a little tiny bit of shameless self-promotion here. I have a book here called 2864.00s - 2870.32s | The Act of Defender. For those of you who are new to the Defender space, what this book does is it 2870.32s - 2876.96s | looks at defense from an offensive perspective because I discovered when I started my journey 2876.96s - 2883.68s | down this path that ultimately defense is only half the story. If you don't understand what your 2883.68s - 2888.32s | offensive counterparts are doing, you don't have to know all the fiddly technical details, but if 2888.32s - 2893.68s | you don't understand what they do, you will never understand how attackers work and you will not be 2893.68s - 2899.52s | an effective defender. So I wrote this book basically to give back to a community that has 2899.52s - 2908.27s | given me a ton because I started in the music industry. I did not start in technology. And so I 2908.27s - 2912.35s | like to close with this quote and then we'll open it up. I think we still have a couple minutes for 2912.35s - 2919.39s | questions. So I may not have gone where I intended to go, bachelor's degree in music industry, but I 2919.39s


chunk_text:
- 2870.32s | The Act of Defender. For those of you who are new to the Defender space, what this book does is it 2870.32s - 2876.96s | looks at defense from an offensive perspective because I discovered when I started my journey 2876.96s - 2883.68s | down this path that ultimately defense is only half the story. If you don't understand what your 2883.68s - 2888.32s | offensive counterparts are doing, you don't have to know all the fiddly technical details, but if 2888.32s - 2893.68s | you don't understand what they do, you will never understand how attackers work and you will not be 2893.68s - 2899.52s | an effective defender. So I wrote this book basically to give back to a community that has 2899.52s - 2908.27s | given me a ton because I started in the music industry. I did not start in technology. And so I 2908.27s - 2912.35s | like to close with this quote and then we'll open it up. I think we still have a couple minutes for 2912.35s - 2919.39s | questions. So I may not have gone where I intended to go, bachelor's degree in music industry, but I 2919.39s - 2926.19s | think ultimately I wound up exactly where I need to be. And with that, do I have any questions? Yes. 2957.71s - 2961.55s | So the two things that were mentioned had to do with exculpatory evidence and I purposely 2961.55s - 2965.95s | didn't go too far into that because, you know, knowing that a lot of the folks in the audience, 2965.95s - 2971.15s | this is all very new to them, I wanted to keep it fairly high level. The question in particular was 2971.15s - 2977.87s | what do I use for documentation? Whatever tool works. So paper, pen, Word documents, Excel 2977.87s - 2983.55s | spreadsheets. I have some, in some cases I have forms that I use regularly for certain kinds of 2983.55s - 2989.87s | cases. Sometimes you have to go outside the box because the case is weird. But there's nothing 2989.87s - 2997.31s | magical or special about any of that. It really depends on your use case. So if a Word form works 2997.31s - 3010.08s | well for you or a spreadsheet works well for you, then that's perfectly fine. Does that help? Is 3010.08s -


chunk_text:
- 2926.19s | think ultimately I wound up exactly where I need to be. And with that, do I have any questions? Yes. 2957.71s - 2961.55s | So the two things that were mentioned had to do with exculpatory evidence and I purposely 2961.55s - 2965.95s | didn't go too far into that because, you know, knowing that a lot of the folks in the audience, 2965.95s - 2971.15s | this is all very new to them, I wanted to keep it fairly high level. The question in particular was 2971.15s - 2977.87s | what do I use for documentation? Whatever tool works. So paper, pen, Word documents, Excel 2977.87s - 2983.55s | spreadsheets. I have some, in some cases I have forms that I use regularly for certain kinds of 2983.55s - 2989.87s | cases. Sometimes you have to go outside the box because the case is weird. But there's nothing 2989.87s - 2997.31s | magical or special about any of that. It really depends on your use case. So if a Word form works 2997.31s - 3010.08s | well for you or a spreadsheet works well for you, then that's perfectly fine. Does that help? Is 3010.08s - 3014.08s | there any tool that I've run into problems with if I've asked for to use my notes? No, the biggest 3014.08s - 3019.68s | problem is either having notes on like the back of a napkin and then you literally have to turn in 3019.68s - 3024.88s | the napkin. So that's one of the big, I mean, I haven't personally run into that, but it's something 3024.88s - 3030.80s | they warn you about. You know, pretty much as long as you can show your documentation and you're 3030.80s - 3044.72s | not missing anything, I've never had an issue. I saw another question, hand in the back. Well, I 3044.72s - 3051.12s | missed the last bit, what? Yeah, so he's saying he does instant response and they just do WordDoc. So 3051.12s - 3056.40s | yeah, DFIR is my specialty and I do all kinds of different things in that space and WordDoc 3056.40s - 3060.32s | are your friend and having templates for different kinds of things can be really helpful. 3060.88s - 3074.01s | Other question? Yes. So the question is, I started in music industry, could I talk about the steps to


chunk_text:
3014.08s | there any tool that I've run into problems with if I've asked for to use my notes? No, the biggest 3014.08s - 3019.68s | problem is either having notes on like the back of a napkin and then you literally have to turn in 3019.68s - 3024.88s | the napkin. So that's one of the big, I mean, I haven't personally run into that, but it's something 3024.88s - 3030.80s | they warn you about. You know, pretty much as long as you can show your documentation and you're 3030.80s - 3044.72s | not missing anything, I've never had an issue. I saw another question, hand in the back. Well, I 3044.72s - 3051.12s | missed the last bit, what? Yeah, so he's saying he does instant response and they just do WordDoc. So 3051.12s - 3056.40s | yeah, DFIR is my specialty and I do all kinds of different things in that space and WordDoc 3056.40s - 3060.32s | are your friend and having templates for different kinds of things can be really helpful. 3060.88s - 3074.01s | Other question? Yes. So the question is, I started in music industry, could I talk about the steps to 3074.01s - 3078.57s | make the switch? I'm going to give you the like two second abbreviated version and then I'm happy 3078.57s - 3085.45s | to discuss it further offline. And I just gave a talk, I did a closing keynote for Trimark where I 3085.45s - 3089.69s | actually tell the really long version of that story and that was recorded and you're happy to, 3089.69s - 3095.53s | you're welcome to check that out. So the really short answer is my father worked at the computing 3095.53s - 3099.85s | center at the local college in the town where I grew up and I was actually around all of this 3099.85s - 3105.85s | stuff forever and when I suddenly became unemployed because I was working for a record store after I'd 3105.85s - 3110.49s | worked for a couple different record companies and the owner of that store and that small chain 3110.49s - 3114.09s | decided that paying taxes was optional and New York State said otherwise and they, 3115.29s - 3120.57s | I had to find another career option and a good friend of mine that I was talking to said, why 3120.57s -


chunk_text:
3074.01s - 3078.57s | make the switch? I'm going to give you the like two second abbreviated version and then I'm happy 3078.57s - 3085.45s | to discuss it further offline. And I just gave a talk, I did a closing keynote for Trimark where I 3085.45s - 3089.69s | actually tell the really long version of that story and that was recorded and you're happy to, 3089.69s - 3095.53s | you're welcome to check that out. So the really short answer is my father worked at the computing 3095.53s - 3099.85s | center at the local college in the town where I grew up and I was actually around all of this 3099.85s - 3105.85s | stuff forever and when I suddenly became unemployed because I was working for a record store after I'd 3105.85s - 3110.49s | worked for a couple different record companies and the owner of that store and that small chain 3110.49s - 3114.09s | decided that paying taxes was optional and New York State said otherwise and they, 3115.29s - 3120.57s | I had to find another career option and a good friend of mine that I was talking to said, why 3120.57s - 3125.61s | don't you go into tech? Because this was, you know, in the mid-90s when lots of places were 3125.61s - 3132.41s | hiring for support roles on the phone and I started down that path that way. How I wound 3132.41s - 3140.49s | up doing investigation work, I had a good friend at a later job who started to look at worms and 3140.49s - 3145.93s | other infections and I was fascinated by what he was learning. He shared some stuff from SANS with 3145.93s - 3151.21s | me and that's kind of the direction I wound up taking. The university where I work ultimately 3151.21s - 3156.89s | needed somebody to do a forensics for compliance and I built that program for them. So that's the 3156.89s - 3175.77s | super duper short answer. We might have time for one more, yes. So the question has to do with the 3175.77s - 3179.93s | fact that I work with law enforcement but I'm not in law enforcement and why do they come to me for 3179.93s - 3184.89s | stuff? So because I work for university, I have access to all of our data points,


chunk_text:
3125.61s | don't you go into tech? Because this was, you know, in the mid-90s when lots of places were 3125.61s - 3132.41s | hiring for support roles on the phone and I started down that path that way. How I wound 3132.41s - 3140.49s | up doing investigation work, I had a good friend at a later job who started to look at worms and 3140.49s - 3145.93s | other infections and I was fascinated by what he was learning. He shared some stuff from SANS with 3145.93s - 3151.21s | me and that's kind of the direction I wound up taking. The university where I work ultimately 3151.21s - 3156.89s | needed somebody to do a forensics for compliance and I built that program for them. So that's the 3156.89s - 3175.77s | super duper short answer. We might have time for one more, yes. So the question has to do with the 3175.77s - 3179.93s | fact that I work with law enforcement but I'm not in law enforcement and why do they come to me for 3179.93s - 3184.89s | stuff? So because I work for university, I have access to all of our data points, right? I have 3184.89s - 3191.37s | access to all of our logs. I know the people who can get stuff for us if I can't and so they come 3191.37s - 3197.45s | to me in part because they want that data and in some cases they want to understand that data 3197.45s - 3203.21s | better. If it is a case that is actually going to go to a criminal court, then we collect the system 3203.21s - 3209.53s | and that goes down to our regional forensics lab. I don't work those cases because that really needs 3209.53s - 3214.73s | to be specially handled but when we have employee relations issues, I will do full forensic cases 3214.73s - 3219.85s | for employee relations that's not law enforcement and do those kinds of things and I think folks 3219.85s - 3224.33s | were just about out of time. I'll hang out for a minute or two here as long as I'm allowed and then 3224.33s - 3231.37s | I will be out there if you need me. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you DEF CON for bringing me in.


chunk_text:
right? I have 3184.89s - 3191.37s | access to all of our logs. I know the people who can get stuff for us if I can't and so they come 3191.37s - 3197.45s | to me in part because they want that data and in some cases they want to understand that data 3197.45s - 3203.21s | better. If it is a case that is actually going to go to a criminal court, then we collect the system 3203.21s - 3209.53s | and that goes down to our regional forensics lab. I don't work those cases because that really needs 3209.53s - 3214.73s | to be specially handled but when we have employee relations issues, I will do full forensic cases 3214.73s - 3219.85s | for employee relations that's not law enforcement and do those kinds of things and I think folks 3219.85s - 3224.33s | were just about out of time. I'll hang out for a minute or two here as long as I'm allowed and then 3224.33s - 3231.37s | I will be out there if you need me. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you DEF CON for bringing me in.


chunk_text:
{ "webpage_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4zQ9oOQl9w", "title": "DEF CON 32 - So you wanna know how to make badges - c0ldbru", "description": "Taking attendees through the full badge making process from ideation to ordering and producing at scale", "channel_url": "https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6Om9kAkl32dWlDSNlDS9Iw", "duration": 2769, "channel": "DEFCONConference", "uploader": "DEFCONConference", "upload_date": "20241016" } 0.00s - 5.12s | This text was transcribed using whisper model: large-v2 All right. So today we're going to talk about how to make badges. So you're probably wondering who 5.12s - 12.08s | am I? My name is Cold Brew. I am a solutions architect at my day job, the founder and lead 12.08s - 17.60s | hacker at ROT13 Labs, and I am the organizer of High Roller Con, or one of the organizers. 18.32s - 21.68s | If you see those little ducks everywhere for High Roller Con, those were us. 22.64s - 27.84s | I'm also a hardware hacker noob. And why do I say that? I say that because I am not an electrical 27.84s - 32.72s | engineer. I am not someone who's been doing this for 10 years. I'm just a dude who figured out how 32.72s - 37.36s | to do it by tinkering. And that means that all of you can do it too. This is not something that 37.36s - 41.68s | requires you to be some kind of crazy wizard. It's stuff that anybody can do if you just take 41.68s - 45.60s | the time and tinker with it. And that's kind of what a lot of this talk is about. 47.04s - 50.72s | If you'd like to follow me on things, this is kind of a list of all the social networks I'm on, 50.72s - 54.72s | basically in order of how often I'm on them. So if you're trying to hit me up on Discord, 54.72s - 64.66s | I may not respond for a week or two. All right, so what are we going to talk about during this 64.66s - 67.70s | talk? We're going to, I'm going to try to go through as much of it as I can, because we've 67.70s - 72.42s | got a live demo at the end, and I really want to get to that. So first we're going to talk about 72.42s - 76.34s | how to come up with an idea. If you're going to make a badge,


chunk_text:
means that all of you can do it too. This is not something that 37.36s - 41.68s | requires you to be some kind of crazy wizard. It's stuff that anybody can do if you just take 41.68s - 45.60s | the time and tinker with it. And that's kind of what a lot of this talk is about. 47.04s - 50.72s | If you'd like to follow me on things, this is kind of a list of all the social networks I'm on, 50.72s - 54.72s | basically in order of how often I'm on them. So if you're trying to hit me up on Discord, 54.72s - 64.66s | I may not respond for a week or two. All right, so what are we going to talk about during this 64.66s - 67.70s | talk? We're going to, I'm going to try to go through as much of it as I can, because we've 67.70s - 72.42s | got a live demo at the end, and I really want to get to that. So first we're going to talk about 72.42s - 76.34s | how to come up with an idea. If you're going to make a badge, you've got to have an idea for it. 76.34s - 80.02s | The next thing is planning out the hardware, making sure that you know exactly how it's 80.02s - 84.26s | going to work, and you know, all of those kind of things. Planning out your firmware to make 84.26s - 88.74s | sure that the hardware can actually do the things you want it to do. Coming up with packaging and 88.74s - 93.38s | accessories if you want to include things like that with it. Planning out the budget, making 93.38s - 100.10s | sure that you've got kind of all your t's crossed and all your i's dots, and then making the badge. 100.10s - 104.58s | So we're going to try and get through as much of this as we can. So a quick disclaimer before we 104.58s - 110.66s | dive into this too much, this is not like the right way to make a badge. There is no right way. 110.66s - 114.58s | Everyone has a different way they like to make badges. Every time I talk to a badge maker, 114.58s - 119.86s | I learn some new way to do


chunk_text:
you've got to have an idea for it. 76.34s - 80.02s | The next thing is planning out the hardware, making sure that you know exactly how it's 80.02s - 84.26s | going to work, and you know, all of those kind of things. Planning out your firmware to make 84.26s - 88.74s | sure that the hardware can actually do the things you want it to do. Coming up with packaging and 88.74s - 93.38s | accessories if you want to include things like that with it. Planning out the budget, making 93.38s - 100.10s | sure that you've got kind of all your t's crossed and all your i's dots, and then making the badge. 100.10s - 104.58s | So we're going to try and get through as much of this as we can. So a quick disclaimer before we 104.58s - 110.66s | dive into this too much, this is not like the right way to make a badge. There is no right way. 110.66s - 114.58s | Everyone has a different way they like to make badges. Every time I talk to a badge maker, 114.58s - 119.86s | I learn some new way to do it. This is just how I make them. I have a lot of people after Defcon 119.86s - 126.77s | usually coming up and asking me about how I do it. This is how I do it. Okay, so the first thing 126.77s - 132.37s | is coming up with the idea. In a conversation with Altbeer about a year ago, we were talking 132.37s - 136.61s | about badges, and he said the hardest part of making badges is coming up with a good idea. 137.33s - 143.89s | And this just stuck with me because this is so true. This is the hardest part. Once you know 143.89s - 147.09s | what you're going to build, the rest of the steps, they happen easily. You can just read 147.09s - 152.05s | documentation, you can figure things out, you can tinker. However you're going to do it, you can 152.05s - 156.45s | make the badge. But the idea, that's the part that you really have to work on and make sure it's 156.45s - 162.13s | something you're really going to be excited to build. So some things to think about when you're 162.13s - 166.37s |


chunk_text:
it. This is just how I make them. I have a lot of people after Defcon 119.86s - 126.77s | usually coming up and asking me about how I do it. This is how I do it. Okay, so the first thing 126.77s - 132.37s | is coming up with the idea. In a conversation with Altbeer about a year ago, we were talking 132.37s - 136.61s | about badges, and he said the hardest part of making badges is coming up with a good idea. 137.33s - 143.89s | And this just stuck with me because this is so true. This is the hardest part. Once you know 143.89s - 147.09s | what you're going to build, the rest of the steps, they happen easily. You can just read 147.09s - 152.05s | documentation, you can figure things out, you can tinker. However you're going to do it, you can 152.05s - 156.45s | make the badge. But the idea, that's the part that you really have to work on and make sure it's 156.45s - 162.13s | something you're really going to be excited to build. So some things to think about when you're 162.13s - 166.37s | coming up with your design. How do you want it to look? Like what shape do you want it to be in? 166.37s - 169.89s | Do you want it to be abstract? Do you want it to look like a dog? You know, whatever you want it 169.89s - 174.05s | to be. And then once you know that, then you're going to have to figure out, okay, the shape, 174.05s - 178.29s | the color, the size of it. Do you want it to be huge? Do you want it to be a little tiny thing, 178.29s - 183.73s | maybe an SAO? Where's the lanyard going to go if it's going to have a lanyard? Do you want to do 183.73s - 187.89s | the dual hook ones or do you want to do the single hooks? All of these things are going to affect 187.89s - 192.93s | your design on this. The next thing is what do you want it to actually do? Or do you want it to 192.93s - 197.01s | do anything at all? Sometimes people just like the blinky, and that's fine too. Sometimes they 197.01s - 201.57s | want it


chunk_text:
coming up with your design. How do you want it to look? Like what shape do you want it to be in? 166.37s - 169.89s | Do you want it to be abstract? Do you want it to look like a dog? You know, whatever you want it 169.89s - 174.05s | to be. And then once you know that, then you're going to have to figure out, okay, the shape, 174.05s - 178.29s | the color, the size of it. Do you want it to be huge? Do you want it to be a little tiny thing, 178.29s - 183.73s | maybe an SAO? Where's the lanyard going to go if it's going to have a lanyard? Do you want to do 183.73s - 187.89s | the dual hook ones or do you want to do the single hooks? All of these things are going to affect 187.89s - 192.93s | your design on this. The next thing is what do you want it to actually do? Or do you want it to 192.93s - 197.01s | do anything at all? Sometimes people just like the blinky, and that's fine too. Sometimes they 197.01s - 201.57s | want it to have really, really intense features. Whatever it is, you need to know what it's going 201.57s - 207.25s | to do before you start really diving into this. How are you going to power all this? You might 207.25s - 211.73s | need a big lipo. You might be able to get away with the little 2032s. And the last thing is 211.73s - 215.57s | what's your budget? You've got to make sure that whatever you're trying to build is realistic for 215.57s - 219.65s | that budget. And think about the fact that you're not, or probably not at least, just going to be 219.65s - 223.57s | making one or two of these. You might be making hundreds of them. So these are all things to 223.57s - 229.41s | consider. And the last thing about that is be prepared to dump some money into this. It's not 229.41s - 233.41s | cheap. I'm not trying to scare you away from it or anything because it, you know, you can do it 233.41s - 238.29s | on a budget. But if you're trying to make something really intense and you might have to iterate a few


chunk_text:
to have really, really intense features. Whatever it is, you need to know what it's going 201.57s - 207.25s | to do before you start really diving into this. How are you going to power all this? You might 207.25s - 211.73s | need a big lipo. You might be able to get away with the little 2032s. And the last thing is 211.73s - 215.57s | what's your budget? You've got to make sure that whatever you're trying to build is realistic for 215.57s - 219.65s | that budget. And think about the fact that you're not, or probably not at least, just going to be 219.65s - 223.57s | making one or two of these. You might be making hundreds of them. So these are all things to 223.57s - 229.41s | consider. And the last thing about that is be prepared to dump some money into this. It's not 229.41s - 233.41s | cheap. I'm not trying to scare you away from it or anything because it, you know, you can do it 233.41s - 238.29s | on a budget. But if you're trying to make something really intense and you might have to iterate a few 238.29s - 242.45s | times, and usually places don't like to fulfill orders of just one badge, so you're probably 242.45s - 246.53s | making five at a time. And when it comes to your house and it doesn't work, all that money's down 246.53s - 251.09s | the drain. You've got to figure out how it should work and then order another batch and hope that 251.09s - 257.41s | one works. So make sure that you're ready to actually put some money into this. Okay, so these 257.41s - 261.01s | are some of the badges that I've made in the past just to kind of give you some idea of things. 261.65s - 265.65s | I mean, some of these are, I try to get kind of a good range of like different sizes, different 265.65s - 270.93s | styles, different things. But it's something where you've got to think about the coloring, the size, 270.93s - 276.05s | the shape, all of that. And these are some good examples of things that I've made. We can kind of 276.05s - 283.09s | get into them as we keep going, but just a few ideas. So now


chunk_text:
238.29s - 242.45s | times, and usually places don't like to fulfill orders of just one badge, so you're probably 242.45s - 246.53s | making five at a time. And when it comes to your house and it doesn't work, all that money's down 246.53s - 251.09s | the drain. You've got to figure out how it should work and then order another batch and hope that 251.09s - 257.41s | one works. So make sure that you're ready to actually put some money into this. Okay, so these 257.41s - 261.01s | are some of the badges that I've made in the past just to kind of give you some idea of things. 261.65s - 265.65s | I mean, some of these are, I try to get kind of a good range of like different sizes, different 265.65s - 270.93s | styles, different things. But it's something where you've got to think about the coloring, the size, 270.93s - 276.05s | the shape, all of that. And these are some good examples of things that I've made. We can kind of 276.05s - 283.09s | get into them as we keep going, but just a few ideas. So now that you've got your idea, 283.09s - 286.53s | you've decided exactly what you're going to make. Now you can start to plan out that hardware. 287.41s - 294.13s | Is it just going to blink? If so, all you need is some LEDs and the CH2032 is probably enough 294.13s - 298.77s | for you. Okay? Those are the little coin cells that sometimes the DEF CON badges run off of. 300.05s - 304.53s | You've got to think about your LEDs. They have those self-blinking LEDs. They're dead simple 304.53s - 309.41s | to use. I love using those in badges because it gives you some functionality. It gives you 309.41s - 315.41s | something that's blinking or flashing or whatever without having to use a microcontroller. Those 315.41s - 319.57s | usually also have a built-in resistor. So that's another part that you don't have to use. It makes 319.57s - 324.37s | your bomb tiny. It makes the amount of parts you have to acquire tiny. It just makes your life a 324.37s - 330.69s | lot easier, especially if you're trying to build something simple. SMD versus through-hole. SMD is 330.69s - 335.89s | surface


chunk_text:
that you've got your idea, 283.09s - 286.53s | you've decided exactly what you're going to make. Now you can start to plan out that hardware. 287.41s - 294.13s | Is it just going to blink? If so, all you need is some LEDs and the CH2032 is probably enough 294.13s - 298.77s | for you. Okay? Those are the little coin cells that sometimes the DEF CON badges run off of. 300.05s - 304.53s | You've got to think about your LEDs. They have those self-blinking LEDs. They're dead simple 304.53s - 309.41s | to use. I love using those in badges because it gives you some functionality. It gives you 309.41s - 315.41s | something that's blinking or flashing or whatever without having to use a microcontroller. Those 315.41s - 319.57s | usually also have a built-in resistor. So that's another part that you don't have to use. It makes 319.57s - 324.37s | your bomb tiny. It makes the amount of parts you have to acquire tiny. It just makes your life a 324.37s - 330.69s | lot easier, especially if you're trying to build something simple. SMD versus through-hole. SMD is 330.69s - 335.89s | surface mount devices. Those are the ones that mount on the surface. Through-hole is the ones 335.89s - 341.25s | that are actually going through the board. These can kind of change your design pretty wildly. 341.25s - 344.61s | For the little duck SAOs this year, we did the through-hole ones because we thought it'd be 344.61s - 348.77s | easier for people to solder on their own. But now when it comes time for us to solder 30,000 of 348.77s - 354.93s | these, you know, we just can't do it easily. So we ended up only soldering 1,000 of them ourselves. 354.93s - 358.93s | But 1,000 ducks is a lot to solder. So we're kind of regretting that decision. But 359.57s - 364.61s | it's something to think about. If you're doing the SMD stuff, you can also do things like reverse 364.61s - 370.37s | mounting. So this badge here is a perfect example where we did reverse mount LEDs on the back of 370.37s - 374.69s | the board so that it shines through the board and kind of gives you that little effect you can see 374.69s - 378.21s | there with the blue


chunk_text:
mount devices. Those are the ones that mount on the surface. Through-hole is the ones 335.89s - 341.25s | that are actually going through the board. These can kind of change your design pretty wildly. 341.25s - 344.61s | For the little duck SAOs this year, we did the through-hole ones because we thought it'd be 344.61s - 348.77s | easier for people to solder on their own. But now when it comes time for us to solder 30,000 of 348.77s - 354.93s | these, you know, we just can't do it easily. So we ended up only soldering 1,000 of them ourselves. 354.93s - 358.93s | But 1,000 ducks is a lot to solder. So we're kind of regretting that decision. But 359.57s - 364.61s | it's something to think about. If you're doing the SMD stuff, you can also do things like reverse 364.61s - 370.37s | mounting. So this badge here is a perfect example where we did reverse mount LEDs on the back of 370.37s - 374.69s | the board so that it shines through the board and kind of gives you that little effect you can see 374.69s - 378.21s | there with the blue and the red. And those were the self-blinking ones, so we couldn't catch all 378.21s - 383.25s | four of them lit up at the same time. But you get the idea. You can do a lot with just LEDs and 383.25s - 388.61s | still make a really cool badge. Another thing I always tell people is that if you're making a very, 388.61s - 392.85s | very simple badge, but you want to give it a little more flexibility or give it just 392.85s - 399.89s | a little something extra, consider an SAO port. Technically, the SAO standard is supposed to have 399.89s - 405.41s | all six pins doing different things. But if you just put power and ground, that's all most SAOs 405.41s - 410.85s | use in the first place anyway. So it gives you a very easy way to add a little extra functionality 410.85s - 417.28s | for people to expand upon your badge. Okay, so if you do want to go with functionality, 417.28s - 420.88s | you want it to do something, you want it to have Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, whatever it is, 421.44s - 424.24s | you got to think


chunk_text:
and the red. And those were the self-blinking ones, so we couldn't catch all 378.21s - 383.25s | four of them lit up at the same time. But you get the idea. You can do a lot with just LEDs and 383.25s - 388.61s | still make a really cool badge. Another thing I always tell people is that if you're making a very, 388.61s - 392.85s | very simple badge, but you want to give it a little more flexibility or give it just 392.85s - 399.89s | a little something extra, consider an SAO port. Technically, the SAO standard is supposed to have 399.89s - 405.41s | all six pins doing different things. But if you just put power and ground, that's all most SAOs 405.41s - 410.85s | use in the first place anyway. So it gives you a very easy way to add a little extra functionality 410.85s - 417.28s | for people to expand upon your badge. Okay, so if you do want to go with functionality, 417.28s - 420.88s | you want it to do something, you want it to have Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, whatever it is, 421.44s - 424.24s | you got to think about how much processing power you're going to need for this. 425.52s - 430.08s | There's tons and tons of MCUs out there. I'm not going to talk about all of them. 430.08s - 434.72s | But the ones that I like to use for the larger power things where I need more processing power 434.72s - 440.72s | is something like the ATmega328P or the RPi2040. These are really, I'm just giving these examples 440.72s - 444.40s | so you've got at least an idea in your head if you're starting to look into these things. Those 444.40s - 448.72s | are the ones that I have found are very easy to work with. They're very simple, they're beginner 448.72s - 453.60s | friendly, but they give you a lot of power. The next thing to think about is things like 453.60s - 458.32s | Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. A lot of badges these days have those things. Something like that, 458.32s - 464.40s | you're going to have to go for something like the ESP8266 or the ESP32 series. The 8266 is going to 464.40s - 469.60s | give you Wi-Fi, the 32 will usually give you Wi-Fi and


chunk_text:
about how much processing power you're going to need for this. 425.52s - 430.08s | There's tons and tons of MCUs out there. I'm not going to talk about all of them. 430.08s - 434.72s | But the ones that I like to use for the larger power things where I need more processing power 434.72s - 440.72s | is something like the ATmega328P or the RPi2040. These are really, I'm just giving these examples 440.72s - 444.40s | so you've got at least an idea in your head if you're starting to look into these things. Those 444.40s - 448.72s | are the ones that I have found are very easy to work with. They're very simple, they're beginner 448.72s - 453.60s | friendly, but they give you a lot of power. The next thing to think about is things like 453.60s - 458.32s | Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. A lot of badges these days have those things. Something like that, 458.32s - 464.40s | you're going to have to go for something like the ESP8266 or the ESP32 series. The 8266 is going to 464.40s - 469.60s | give you Wi-Fi, the 32 will usually give you Wi-Fi and Bluetooth. Make sure you're checking 469.60s - 474.08s | the documentation though because not all of them are going to give you those exact things. 474.72s - 479.20s | You've got to make sure you check the documentation. I have done this before where I ordered a chip 479.20s - 484.08s | thinking it had something, ordered the boards, got them in, soldered it all up. Turns out it doesn't 484.08s - 489.20s | work because I ordered the wrong chips. So learn from my mistakes and make sure you're reading the 489.20s - 496.64s | docs on these things. The last thing to think about is how many GPIO do you need? So on that 496.64s - 503.04s | one, if you're going to need a lot of GPIO, something like the ATmega32 or that CH32V003, 503.04s - 509.44s | that's the new RISC-V chip. It gives you a ton of GPIO for like 10 cents a chip or something like 509.44s - 514.00s | that. They're super cheap, but they're pretty new. So they're a little bit harder to work with, 514.00s - 518.16s | which is another thing you want to consider when you're picking your MCU


chunk_text:
Bluetooth. Make sure you're checking 469.60s - 474.08s | the documentation though because not all of them are going to give you those exact things. 474.72s - 479.20s | You've got to make sure you check the documentation. I have done this before where I ordered a chip 479.20s - 484.08s | thinking it had something, ordered the boards, got them in, soldered it all up. Turns out it doesn't 484.08s - 489.20s | work because I ordered the wrong chips. So learn from my mistakes and make sure you're reading the 489.20s - 496.64s | docs on these things. The last thing to think about is how many GPIO do you need? So on that 496.64s - 503.04s | one, if you're going to need a lot of GPIO, something like the ATmega32 or that CH32V003, 503.04s - 509.44s | that's the new RISC-V chip. It gives you a ton of GPIO for like 10 cents a chip or something like 509.44s - 514.00s | that. They're super cheap, but they're pretty new. So they're a little bit harder to work with, 514.00s - 518.16s | which is another thing you want to consider when you're picking your MCU is how long has this been 518.16s - 523.44s | around? Is there a lot of documentation? Is there a lot of community support? Those are the big 523.44s - 530.80s | things you want to be looking at. Okay. So what is a GPIO? I know someone's going to be asking 530.80s - 536.08s | this. That is a general purpose input output. Those are the pins on the MCU. Those are the 536.08s - 540.40s | things that actually do something. So if you want to put a sensor or you want to blink an LED, 541.12s - 545.68s | anything that is an input or an output, you're going to need a GPIO for that. 546.32s - 551.36s | You can do some tricky things to get extra GPIO out of your badges, but realistically, 551.36s - 560.14s | you want to have one GPIO per thing that you want it to do. Here's some quick examples of 560.14s - 564.62s | pins that have a lot of GPIO. Some of those are through holes. Some of those are surface mount, 564.62s - 569.26s | but it at least gives you an idea of all those pins


chunk_text:
is how long has this been 518.16s - 523.44s | around? Is there a lot of documentation? Is there a lot of community support? Those are the big 523.44s - 530.80s | things you want to be looking at. Okay. So what is a GPIO? I know someone's going to be asking 530.80s - 536.08s | this. That is a general purpose input output. Those are the pins on the MCU. Those are the 536.08s - 540.40s | things that actually do something. So if you want to put a sensor or you want to blink an LED, 541.12s - 545.68s | anything that is an input or an output, you're going to need a GPIO for that. 546.32s - 551.36s | You can do some tricky things to get extra GPIO out of your badges, but realistically, 551.36s - 560.14s | you want to have one GPIO per thing that you want it to do. Here's some quick examples of 560.14s - 564.62s | pins that have a lot of GPIO. Some of those are through holes. Some of those are surface mount, 564.62s - 569.26s | but it at least gives you an idea of all those pins are different things you can do. For these 569.26s - 576.86s | keyboards here, you have to use one GPIO for each row of keys and for each column of keys. 577.42s - 581.50s | And that way you can pinpoint which key was clicked. So obviously for the larger keyboards, 581.50s - 586.38s | you're going to need a lot more GPIO. So it's just something to think about if you're building 586.38s - 593.39s | something that has a lot of functionality. Okay. So you've got your idea. You can plan 593.39s - 598.59s | out your hardware now. Now you can look at the power. Okay. So how long do you want it to run 598.59s - 606.11s | for? My rule of thumb is usually if it's rechargeable, I want it to last at least 24 hours 606.11s - 609.95s | so that people can play with it at the con. They can go home at night when they're about to pass 609.95s - 615.47s | out and plug it in to recharge it and have it for the full next day. If it's not going to be 615.47s - 620.43s | a rechargeable battery, I


chunk_text:
are different things you can do. For these 569.26s - 576.86s | keyboards here, you have to use one GPIO for each row of keys and for each column of keys. 577.42s - 581.50s | And that way you can pinpoint which key was clicked. So obviously for the larger keyboards, 581.50s - 586.38s | you're going to need a lot more GPIO. So it's just something to think about if you're building 586.38s - 593.39s | something that has a lot of functionality. Okay. So you've got your idea. You can plan 593.39s - 598.59s | out your hardware now. Now you can look at the power. Okay. So how long do you want it to run 598.59s - 606.11s | for? My rule of thumb is usually if it's rechargeable, I want it to last at least 24 hours 606.11s - 609.95s | so that people can play with it at the con. They can go home at night when they're about to pass 609.95s - 615.47s | out and plug it in to recharge it and have it for the full next day. If it's not going to be 615.47s - 620.43s | a rechargeable battery, I want it to last the whole con. I want people to be able to leave it 620.43s - 627.30s | on, forget about it, fall asleep with it turned on and still be running the next day. I mean, 627.30s - 630.82s | realistically, you could make things that power for months. I really doubt you need that, but 631.46s - 638.42s | it's an option. When it comes to using power, the heavy hitters are usually things like NeoPixels 638.42s - 644.02s | and Wi-Fi. NeoPixels, there's a lot of tricks you can do to make them use a little bit less power, 644.02s - 648.18s | but if you really want that color cycling where you control what colors they are and how they move, 648.82s - 654.18s | it's going to cost you a bit of power. The last thing to think about is do you need a charge 654.18s - 657.70s | circuit? And that's going to be if you're doing the LiPo batteries and you want to be able to 657.70s - 663.30s | recharge that. Some MCUs will have that built in. So again, you'll have to read the documentation 663.30s - 667.62s |


chunk_text:
want it to last the whole con. I want people to be able to leave it 620.43s - 627.30s | on, forget about it, fall asleep with it turned on and still be running the next day. I mean, 627.30s - 630.82s | realistically, you could make things that power for months. I really doubt you need that, but 631.46s - 638.42s | it's an option. When it comes to using power, the heavy hitters are usually things like NeoPixels 638.42s - 644.02s | and Wi-Fi. NeoPixels, there's a lot of tricks you can do to make them use a little bit less power, 644.02s - 648.18s | but if you really want that color cycling where you control what colors they are and how they move, 648.82s - 654.18s | it's going to cost you a bit of power. The last thing to think about is do you need a charge 654.18s - 657.70s | circuit? And that's going to be if you're doing the LiPo batteries and you want to be able to 657.70s - 663.30s | recharge that. Some MCUs will have that built in. So again, you'll have to read the documentation 663.30s - 667.62s | and see, is this something that I need to build on my own or is this something that my MCU comes 667.62s - 674.98s | with? Now I chose this badge for this slide because this is one of the spaces where I really 674.98s - 680.02s | screwed up and I really regretted it. So this is a lesson for y'all to learn from my mistake here 680.66s - 686.10s | is I used one of these, I think it was called a CH123 battery and they're not rechargeable, 686.10s - 689.30s | so you have to click it out and click a new one in every time you want to use it. 689.30s - 696.10s | I was using Wi-Fi and NeoPixels on this badge and it did not last a day. And once it died, 696.82s - 701.22s | where are you supposed to get one of these? So this was for Wild West Hack and Fest. Those who 701.22s - 705.46s | have been to that, you know, there's not a lot of places to get batteries out there in the middle 705.46s - 712.42s | of Deadwood. So when these badges died, you were just


chunk_text:
and see, is this something that I need to build on my own or is this something that my MCU comes 667.62s - 674.98s | with? Now I chose this badge for this slide because this is one of the spaces where I really 674.98s - 680.02s | screwed up and I really regretted it. So this is a lesson for y'all to learn from my mistake here 680.66s - 686.10s | is I used one of these, I think it was called a CH123 battery and they're not rechargeable, 686.10s - 689.30s | so you have to click it out and click a new one in every time you want to use it. 689.30s - 696.10s | I was using Wi-Fi and NeoPixels on this badge and it did not last a day. And once it died, 696.82s - 701.22s | where are you supposed to get one of these? So this was for Wild West Hack and Fest. Those who 701.22s - 705.46s | have been to that, you know, there's not a lot of places to get batteries out there in the middle 705.46s - 712.42s | of Deadwood. So when these badges died, you were just kind of out of luck. So I included an extra 712.42s - 718.10s | battery with each one, but you know, it was an area where I regret that. So make sure if you're 718.10s - 722.10s | going to use a battery that can be swapped out, make sure you're using something that people can 722.10s - 726.82s | actually get their hands on when they want to get new, you know, replace that battery. 729.79s - 732.75s | Okay. So we're ready to build our thing, whatever it may be. 734.19s - 741.39s | So I usually skip this part. You should not skip this part. This is just me being lazy and not 741.39s - 747.15s | wanting to do it, but just for full disclosure, I usually end up skipping this. I do regret it 747.15s - 752.43s | later most of the time. This is going to save you a lot of headaches and this is going to allow you 752.43s - 756.27s | to be able to send your circuit to other badge makers or other, you know, electrical engineers 756.27s - 760.43s | or whatever and say, Hey, why is this not working?


chunk_text:
kind of out of luck. So I included an extra 712.42s - 718.10s | battery with each one, but you know, it was an area where I regret that. So make sure if you're 718.10s - 722.10s | going to use a battery that can be swapped out, make sure you're using something that people can 722.10s - 726.82s | actually get their hands on when they want to get new, you know, replace that battery. 729.79s - 732.75s | Okay. So we're ready to build our thing, whatever it may be. 734.19s - 741.39s | So I usually skip this part. You should not skip this part. This is just me being lazy and not 741.39s - 747.15s | wanting to do it, but just for full disclosure, I usually end up skipping this. I do regret it 747.15s - 752.43s | later most of the time. This is going to save you a lot of headaches and this is going to allow you 752.43s - 756.27s | to be able to send your circuit to other badge makers or other, you know, electrical engineers 756.27s - 760.43s | or whatever and say, Hey, why is this not working? Or, Hey, is this going to work? 761.79s - 766.11s | So we'll talk a little bit more about these later on, but you're going to want to draw it out. Okay. 766.11s - 771.63s | And this is something where you can see there, there's the ATtiny85 and it's going to some 771.63s - 776.27s | resistors and it's going to a USB port. And it allows you to actually check out what your 776.27s - 779.55s | circuit's going to do and how it's going to do it to make sure all the connections are there, 779.55s - 789.06s | you know, and it's going to work. So shameless plug, a buddy of mine, Relay Moth, 789.62s - 795.78s | he actually sells t-shirts of that circuit. So I've got one on right here. We have a few of them 795.78s - 799.38s | over at the Cyber Swamp Lords booth, but most of them have sold out, but you can get them online 799.38s - 805.54s | if that's something that you guys like. So once you have built out your circuit, now's when you're 805.54s - 810.42s | going to want to breadboard that. So you're


chunk_text:
Or, Hey, is this going to work? 761.79s - 766.11s | So we'll talk a little bit more about these later on, but you're going to want to draw it out. Okay. 766.11s - 771.63s | And this is something where you can see there, there's the ATtiny85 and it's going to some 771.63s - 776.27s | resistors and it's going to a USB port. And it allows you to actually check out what your 776.27s - 779.55s | circuit's going to do and how it's going to do it to make sure all the connections are there, 779.55s - 789.06s | you know, and it's going to work. So shameless plug, a buddy of mine, Relay Moth, 789.62s - 795.78s | he actually sells t-shirts of that circuit. So I've got one on right here. We have a few of them 795.78s - 799.38s | over at the Cyber Swamp Lords booth, but most of them have sold out, but you can get them online 799.38s - 805.54s | if that's something that you guys like. So once you have built out your circuit, now's when you're 805.54s - 810.42s | going to want to breadboard that. So you're going to build it with actual parts, but without a PCB. 810.42s - 814.34s | You're just jamming wires into a breadboard and connecting everything up to make sure that it 814.34s - 820.18s | works. You can kind of do little tricks like just touching wires together to simulate clicking a 820.18s - 824.90s | button. You can start to build out your firmware at this phase if it actually needs firmware, 824.90s - 829.14s | like if you're using an MCU and you want it to have Wi-Fi or Bluetooth or whatever, this is when 829.14s - 833.70s | you can start building that and make sure that the hardware that you're choosing can actually do the 833.70s - 844.26s | things you want it to do. Also, I usually skip this step too. So don't listen to me, just do 844.26s - 851.57s | what you're supposed to do. So that leads into planning out the firmware. Usually Arduino IDE 851.57s - 856.45s | is a great place to start for this. They have ways to be able to test out all kinds of functionality 856.45s - 861.09s | on all kinds of different chipsets. They just


chunk_text:
going to build it with actual parts, but without a PCB. 810.42s - 814.34s | You're just jamming wires into a breadboard and connecting everything up to make sure that it 814.34s - 820.18s | works. You can kind of do little tricks like just touching wires together to simulate clicking a 820.18s - 824.90s | button. You can start to build out your firmware at this phase if it actually needs firmware, 824.90s - 829.14s | like if you're using an MCU and you want it to have Wi-Fi or Bluetooth or whatever, this is when 829.14s - 833.70s | you can start building that and make sure that the hardware that you're choosing can actually do the 833.70s - 844.26s | things you want it to do. Also, I usually skip this step too. So don't listen to me, just do 844.26s - 851.57s | what you're supposed to do. So that leads into planning out the firmware. Usually Arduino IDE 851.57s - 856.45s | is a great place to start for this. They have ways to be able to test out all kinds of functionality 856.45s - 861.09s | on all kinds of different chipsets. They just make it a lot easier to develop on, especially 861.09s - 866.69s | if you're just getting started. What I always tell people is if you just Google the functionality 866.69s - 872.13s | that you want, chances are someone else has done something that's very close to that. Even if it's 872.13s - 876.37s | not super close to it, even if it's kind of a little bit off, you can usually just steal chunks 876.37s - 881.81s | of that and start mashing things together to build out the firmware you want. Those Fox badges that I 881.81s - 887.17s | built a few years ago, if anybody knows about those, they were really just a hop gobble of a 887.17s - 890.37s | bunch of other people's code that I was able to string together and make it work. 891.89s - 895.73s | You know, it's a simple way to start, especially if you're not great with writing firmware like me, 896.29s - 901.89s | it's a good way to get it going. So as long as you're using an MCU, some other ideas to think 901.89s - 906.85s | about adding in there is things like


chunk_text:
make it a lot easier to develop on, especially 861.09s - 866.69s | if you're just getting started. What I always tell people is if you just Google the functionality 866.69s - 872.13s | that you want, chances are someone else has done something that's very close to that. Even if it's 872.13s - 876.37s | not super close to it, even if it's kind of a little bit off, you can usually just steal chunks 876.37s - 881.81s | of that and start mashing things together to build out the firmware you want. Those Fox badges that I 881.81s - 887.17s | built a few years ago, if anybody knows about those, they were really just a hop gobble of a 887.17s - 890.37s | bunch of other people's code that I was able to string together and make it work. 891.89s - 895.73s | You know, it's a simple way to start, especially if you're not great with writing firmware like me, 896.29s - 901.89s | it's a good way to get it going. So as long as you're using an MCU, some other ideas to think 901.89s - 906.85s | about adding in there is things like a CTF, things like feature flags, there's things like a debug 906.85s - 912.85s | mode, and again the SAO. Things like that are a great way to add functionality onto your badge 913.41s - 917.17s | without really, you know, needing to change the hardware at all. 919.25s - 923.97s | So we had talked before about how SAO is a standard. This is the actual pinout for it. 923.97s - 928.05s | So you've got your three volt in your ground, then you've got a data and clock, and then you've got 928.05s - 934.05s | two GPIO. And that's just something where this is, if you want it to be a full SAO, this is what 934.05s - 938.53s | people are referring to. But again, you can just do that three volt in the ground and you're probably 938.53s - 944.21s | going to be just fine. Also, some badge makers do not necessarily do 3.3 volt. I've seen badges 944.21s - 950.21s | that are sending six volt here. Maybe don't do that, because that might blow up someone's SAO, 950.21s - 957.87s | but people do it. Okay, so packaging and accessories. This is


chunk_text:
a CTF, things like feature flags, there's things like a debug 906.85s - 912.85s | mode, and again the SAO. Things like that are a great way to add functionality onto your badge 913.41s - 917.17s | without really, you know, needing to change the hardware at all. 919.25s - 923.97s | So we had talked before about how SAO is a standard. This is the actual pinout for it. 923.97s - 928.05s | So you've got your three volt in your ground, then you've got a data and clock, and then you've got 928.05s - 934.05s | two GPIO. And that's just something where this is, if you want it to be a full SAO, this is what 934.05s - 938.53s | people are referring to. But again, you can just do that three volt in the ground and you're probably 938.53s - 944.21s | going to be just fine. Also, some badge makers do not necessarily do 3.3 volt. I've seen badges 944.21s - 950.21s | that are sending six volt here. Maybe don't do that, because that might blow up someone's SAO, 950.21s - 957.87s | but people do it. Okay, so packaging and accessories. This is an area where I always 957.87s - 962.51s | like to do a lot more. I know some badge makers, they just like to hand you a bag with the badge 962.51s - 967.71s | in it, and that's fine too. But I always think it's a lot more fun when badges come with like 967.71s - 972.91s | really cool packaging, and they come with cool accessories, and it's this whole experience that 972.91s - 977.39s | you've built for someone rather than just handing them the badge. I always like doing that, so I 977.39s - 982.51s | always encourage others to do the same thing. If you're going to do this, the thing to think about 982.51s - 987.87s | when you're doing it is, what do you actually need to use this badge? Like if I handed you the badge, 987.87s - 992.51s | what would you need to just turn it on and use it right now? And then there's things like, 992.51s - 997.63s | what would you want to get with this badge? So the needs, I have things like USB cable, 997.63s - 1002.19s | batteries, antenna, any of those kinds of


chunk_text:
an area where I always 957.87s - 962.51s | like to do a lot more. I know some badge makers, they just like to hand you a bag with the badge 962.51s - 967.71s | in it, and that's fine too. But I always think it's a lot more fun when badges come with like 967.71s - 972.91s | really cool packaging, and they come with cool accessories, and it's this whole experience that 972.91s - 977.39s | you've built for someone rather than just handing them the badge. I always like doing that, so I 977.39s - 982.51s | always encourage others to do the same thing. If you're going to do this, the thing to think about 982.51s - 987.87s | when you're doing it is, what do you actually need to use this badge? Like if I handed you the badge, 987.87s - 992.51s | what would you need to just turn it on and use it right now? And then there's things like, 992.51s - 997.63s | what would you want to get with this badge? So the needs, I have things like USB cable, 997.63s - 1002.19s | batteries, antenna, any of those kinds of things where it's like to be able to use this badge 1002.83s - 1007.87s | straight out the gate. Those are the kinds of things you would need. The things that are wants 1007.87s - 1013.15s | are things like the sticker, or you know, an extra SAO that comes with the badge, or the case for it, 1013.15s - 1017.95s | or whatever. Any of those things are things that it would be great to have that, but you don't 1017.95s - 1024.29s | really need it. Okay, so you've got all your ideas, you know what parts you're going to use, 1024.29s - 1028.05s | you know what accessories you're going to include and all that, where the hell do you find it all? 1029.01s - 1033.89s | So I always tell people there's basically three tiers that you can go through to actually get 1033.89s - 1040.61s | this. There's your fast shipping kind of highest cost tier, and obviously that's Amazon. These are 1040.61s - 1046.29s | the kind of parts where you don't want to be buying your production parts off of Amazon. 1046.29s - 1049.25s | You're going to pay an arm and a


chunk_text:
things where it's like to be able to use this badge 1002.83s - 1007.87s | straight out the gate. Those are the kinds of things you would need. The things that are wants 1007.87s - 1013.15s | are things like the sticker, or you know, an extra SAO that comes with the badge, or the case for it, 1013.15s - 1017.95s | or whatever. Any of those things are things that it would be great to have that, but you don't 1017.95s - 1024.29s | really need it. Okay, so you've got all your ideas, you know what parts you're going to use, 1024.29s - 1028.05s | you know what accessories you're going to include and all that, where the hell do you find it all? 1029.01s - 1033.89s | So I always tell people there's basically three tiers that you can go through to actually get 1033.89s - 1040.61s | this. There's your fast shipping kind of highest cost tier, and obviously that's Amazon. These are 1040.61s - 1046.29s | the kind of parts where you don't want to be buying your production parts off of Amazon. 1046.29s - 1049.25s | You're going to pay an arm and a leg. You're going to get them tomorrow, but you're going 1049.25s - 1054.77s | to pay an arm and a leg for it. But these are perfect if you get in a jam, or when you're 1054.77s - 1059.33s | prototyping. When you're prototyping, you probably don't want to have to sit around waiting two weeks 1059.33s - 1064.29s | to get some parts just to try them out and be like, oh that wasn't what I needed. Use Amazon, 1064.29s - 1067.17s | get them on there real quick, because you're only buying one or two of them. 1068.45s - 1073.01s | The mid-tier stuff is usually takes around a week of shipping. You can get them faster, 1073.01s - 1077.17s | but it's usually going to be sometime around a week. And these are things like Digikey, Mouser, 1077.17s - 1081.89s | Aero. I know there's plenty more, but those are the ones that I've used and had good luck with. 1082.85s - 1088.13s | These ones are going to be very reliable parts distributors, but they do take a little bit more 1088.13s - 1091.89s | time. You're going to get bulk pricing and things like that,


chunk_text:
leg. You're going to get them tomorrow, but you're going 1049.25s - 1054.77s | to pay an arm and a leg for it. But these are perfect if you get in a jam, or when you're 1054.77s - 1059.33s | prototyping. When you're prototyping, you probably don't want to have to sit around waiting two weeks 1059.33s - 1064.29s | to get some parts just to try them out and be like, oh that wasn't what I needed. Use Amazon, 1064.29s - 1067.17s | get them on there real quick, because you're only buying one or two of them. 1068.45s - 1073.01s | The mid-tier stuff is usually takes around a week of shipping. You can get them faster, 1073.01s - 1077.17s | but it's usually going to be sometime around a week. And these are things like Digikey, Mouser, 1077.17s - 1081.89s | Aero. I know there's plenty more, but those are the ones that I've used and had good luck with. 1082.85s - 1088.13s | These ones are going to be very reliable parts distributors, but they do take a little bit more 1088.13s - 1091.89s | time. You're going to get bulk pricing and things like that, and the more you buy, the more you're 1091.89s - 1098.37s | going to save on those ones. Those are usually where you want to go for things like MCUs, 1098.37s - 1101.73s | where it needs to be solid, it needs to work, it needs to be authentic. 1102.69s - 1107.41s | And the final one is the low-cost, long ship times, and this is things like AliExpress. 1107.97s - 1112.93s | You can also use Teemu or Alibaba or any of those as well, but any of these, you're going to have 1112.93s - 1117.73s | to wait for these parts, but they're going to be dirt cheap, no matter how many you're buying. 1118.37s - 1124.77s | The one problem with this tier is that they're not necessarily authentic. I've had friends that 1124.77s - 1129.09s | have ordered a bunch of parts from AliExpress, they get them, and three quarters of them don't 1129.17s - 1136.69s | work, and they're obvious fakes. This is something where, to me, I like to order simple things like 1136.69s - 1143.01s | resistors or LEDs or things like that. I like to order those from AliExpress to get the


chunk_text:
and the more you buy, the more you're 1091.89s - 1098.37s | going to save on those ones. Those are usually where you want to go for things like MCUs, 1098.37s - 1101.73s | where it needs to be solid, it needs to work, it needs to be authentic. 1102.69s - 1107.41s | And the final one is the low-cost, long ship times, and this is things like AliExpress. 1107.97s - 1112.93s | You can also use Teemu or Alibaba or any of those as well, but any of these, you're going to have 1112.93s - 1117.73s | to wait for these parts, but they're going to be dirt cheap, no matter how many you're buying. 1118.37s - 1124.77s | The one problem with this tier is that they're not necessarily authentic. I've had friends that 1124.77s - 1129.09s | have ordered a bunch of parts from AliExpress, they get them, and three quarters of them don't 1129.17s - 1136.69s | work, and they're obvious fakes. This is something where, to me, I like to order simple things like 1136.69s - 1143.01s | resistors or LEDs or things like that. I like to order those from AliExpress to get the better 1143.01s - 1148.29s | deal on them, but anything like an MCU where I need it to be good, I need it to work, and I need 1148.29s - 1153.17s | it to be authentic, I'll order that from that mid-tier. You can kind of choose to slice this 1153.17s - 1159.12s | however you want, that's just how I like to do it. Okay, so what is all this going to actually 1159.12s - 1165.36s | cost you? I've drawn out the way that I plan budgets, and these numbers are just made up, 1165.36s - 1169.84s | but this is how I like to do it, is I like to get all of my different things that I'm going to buy, 1169.84s - 1174.64s | so the PCBs, the components, batteries, lanyards, accessories, cases, whatever, 1175.20s - 1178.96s | and put down how much the complete order of that thing is going to cost, 1179.84s - 1184.80s | then how many units I'm going to make, and a total cost to make it. So that is like, 1184.80s - 1190.24s | if I had to invest, you know, in this case, $325 to prototype this out, 1190.24s


chunk_text:
better 1143.01s - 1148.29s | deal on them, but anything like an MCU where I need it to be good, I need it to work, and I need 1148.29s - 1153.17s | it to be authentic, I'll order that from that mid-tier. You can kind of choose to slice this 1153.17s - 1159.12s | however you want, that's just how I like to do it. Okay, so what is all this going to actually 1159.12s - 1165.36s | cost you? I've drawn out the way that I plan budgets, and these numbers are just made up, 1165.36s - 1169.84s | but this is how I like to do it, is I like to get all of my different things that I'm going to buy, 1169.84s - 1174.64s | so the PCBs, the components, batteries, lanyards, accessories, cases, whatever, 1175.20s - 1178.96s | and put down how much the complete order of that thing is going to cost, 1179.84s - 1184.80s | then how many units I'm going to make, and a total cost to make it. So that is like, 1184.80s - 1190.24s | if I had to invest, you know, in this case, $325 to prototype this out, 1190.24s - 1194.64s | you know, I ordered that many parts and boards and, you know, whatever to build this thing. 1196.32s - 1200.72s | Oh, whoops, sorry, that's time spent on dev. Total cost to make would be all of those items 1200.72s - 1206.24s | totaled up, which gives me that cost per unit. From there, you can kind of estimate your shipping 1206.24s - 1209.84s | if you want to include that, put what price you're planning on charging, and have this 1209.84s - 1214.48s | calculate like how much profit are you going to make off of these badges if you sell all of them. 1215.04s - 1219.20s | And also, what is your breakeven point? How many of these badges do you have to sell 1219.84s - 1222.40s | to just offset the cost that you spent to make it? 1225.84s - 1230.96s | Let's see here. Yeah, so another thing is kind of your prototyping and discovery costs, 1230.96s - 1235.60s | but also your equipment costs. Some people like to include that. I usually consider equipment 1235.60s - 1239.60s | that I bought to build a badge something that I would probably buy anyway


chunk_text:
- 1194.64s | you know, I ordered that many parts and boards and, you know, whatever to build this thing. 1196.32s - 1200.72s | Oh, whoops, sorry, that's time spent on dev. Total cost to make would be all of those items 1200.72s - 1206.24s | totaled up, which gives me that cost per unit. From there, you can kind of estimate your shipping 1206.24s - 1209.84s | if you want to include that, put what price you're planning on charging, and have this 1209.84s - 1214.48s | calculate like how much profit are you going to make off of these badges if you sell all of them. 1215.04s - 1219.20s | And also, what is your breakeven point? How many of these badges do you have to sell 1219.84s - 1222.40s | to just offset the cost that you spent to make it? 1225.84s - 1230.96s | Let's see here. Yeah, so another thing is kind of your prototyping and discovery costs, 1230.96s - 1235.60s | but also your equipment costs. Some people like to include that. I usually consider equipment 1235.60s - 1239.60s | that I bought to build a badge something that I would probably buy anyway for my hobbies, so 1240.24s - 1243.36s | I don't usually include them, but it is something to think about. 1246.00s - 1250.00s | Okay, so we're finally about to get to the demo here soon, but there's a couple things we want 1250.00s - 1255.44s | to go over before we do that. So I had mentioned we'd come back to designing the circuit. So this 1255.44s - 1260.96s | is the circuit that we're going to try to kind of get as far into as we can with building. So with 1260.96s - 1267.04s | this one, we're going to use the ESP-01S. This is kind of a very small ESP unit that gets us just a 1267.04s - 1273.12s | few IO, but it gets us Wi-Fi, which is what we're going to do with this. It's easy to work with. 1273.12s - 1277.92s | It's very simple to solder, especially for first-time solderers. So we're going to go with 1277.92s - 1281.92s | that one. We're going to go with a little one-inch OLED screen so we can actually see what we're 1281.92s - 1286.72s | working with. We're going to go with the AAA batteries


chunk_text:
for my hobbies, so 1240.24s - 1243.36s | I don't usually include them, but it is something to think about. 1246.00s - 1250.00s | Okay, so we're finally about to get to the demo here soon, but there's a couple things we want 1250.00s - 1255.44s | to go over before we do that. So I had mentioned we'd come back to designing the circuit. So this 1255.44s - 1260.96s | is the circuit that we're going to try to kind of get as far into as we can with building. So with 1260.96s - 1267.04s | this one, we're going to use the ESP-01S. This is kind of a very small ESP unit that gets us just a 1267.04s - 1273.12s | few IO, but it gets us Wi-Fi, which is what we're going to do with this. It's easy to work with. 1273.12s - 1277.92s | It's very simple to solder, especially for first-time solderers. So we're going to go with 1277.92s - 1281.92s | that one. We're going to go with a little one-inch OLED screen so we can actually see what we're 1281.92s - 1286.72s | working with. We're going to go with the AAA batteries because they're simple. AAA batteries 1286.72s - 1292.48s | are going to give us 4.5 volts. All this stuff we're using needs 3.3 volts, so we're going to 1292.48s - 1298.48s | have to use a linear regulator to cut that power down from 4.5 to that 3.3 that we need. 1300.32s - 1303.28s | Then we're going to include a little header so that we can actually program this thing 1303.92s - 1310.91s | and, you know, simple things like buttons, LED, and switch. Okay, so you're probably thinking, 1310.91s - 1316.91s | how do I know which of those GPIO I need to be using to do this? And the answer is simple. It's 1316.91s - 1323.23s | the documentation. Okay, so when you're looking through this documentation for your MCU or 1323.23s - 1328.91s | whatever it is that you're going to actually be using, they are very long documents. And 1328.91s - 1333.07s | especially if you're just getting started, they can be really, really overwhelming to look at. 1333.71s - 1341.71s | So even if you skip 99% of it, the things that you really need to look at is the pin definitions. 1342.83s -


chunk_text:
because they're simple. AAA batteries 1286.72s - 1292.48s | are going to give us 4.5 volts. All this stuff we're using needs 3.3 volts, so we're going to 1292.48s - 1298.48s | have to use a linear regulator to cut that power down from 4.5 to that 3.3 that we need. 1300.32s - 1303.28s | Then we're going to include a little header so that we can actually program this thing 1303.92s - 1310.91s | and, you know, simple things like buttons, LED, and switch. Okay, so you're probably thinking, 1310.91s - 1316.91s | how do I know which of those GPIO I need to be using to do this? And the answer is simple. It's 1316.91s - 1323.23s | the documentation. Okay, so when you're looking through this documentation for your MCU or 1323.23s - 1328.91s | whatever it is that you're going to actually be using, they are very long documents. And 1328.91s - 1333.07s | especially if you're just getting started, they can be really, really overwhelming to look at. 1333.71s - 1341.71s | So even if you skip 99% of it, the things that you really need to look at is the pin definitions. 1342.83s - 1348.35s | This is going to show you what each pin does and what it, or I should say what it can do, 1348.35s - 1354.19s | because not every pin can do everything. So this shows you all the pins that your 1354.19s - 1359.23s | board offers, or your MCU offers, and then the list of things that it can do. But it also shows 1359.23s - 1365.31s | you what they call the active and the boot time for those pins. These are important because it's 1365.31s - 1371.23s | going to say high or low, and that tells you that it's going to be putting out power or not putting 1371.23s - 1376.75s | out power during the boot time or while it's turned on. So this is important because if it's 1376.75s - 1384.83s | supposed to be held high at boot time, but you have it cut off, it's not going to boot. So make 1384.83s - 1388.19s | sure that you're paying attention to these things and understanding how they're going to work. 1389.39s - 1393.63s | The next thing you need to pay attention to in this is the typical application section.


chunk_text:
1348.35s | This is going to show you what each pin does and what it, or I should say what it can do, 1348.35s - 1354.19s | because not every pin can do everything. So this shows you all the pins that your 1354.19s - 1359.23s | board offers, or your MCU offers, and then the list of things that it can do. But it also shows 1359.23s - 1365.31s | you what they call the active and the boot time for those pins. These are important because it's 1365.31s - 1371.23s | going to say high or low, and that tells you that it's going to be putting out power or not putting 1371.23s - 1376.75s | out power during the boot time or while it's turned on. So this is important because if it's 1376.75s - 1384.83s | supposed to be held high at boot time, but you have it cut off, it's not going to boot. So make 1384.83s - 1388.19s | sure that you're paying attention to these things and understanding how they're going to work. 1389.39s - 1393.63s | The next thing you need to pay attention to in this is the typical application section. 1394.27s - 1398.99s | Usually it's going to show a more circuit diagram, kind of like that bottom left there, 1398.99s - 1404.03s | but it could also show just a picture of the unit itself. But what this is going to show you 1404.59s - 1411.39s | is what you need to provide to this chip just to make it work. You can add your own stuff after 1411.39s - 1416.03s | this to make it do whatever it is you need it to do, but these are the bare minimum of what you 1416.03s - 1423.15s | need to make this thing turn on. So you'll see in the top one there, which is the ESP-01, they've 1423.15s - 1430.91s | got a couple resistors there going from enable and reset to that 3.3 volt. But on the ESP-01S, 1430.91s - 1434.43s | which is the one that we're going to use, they've eliminated those. They built those 1434.43s - 1440.83s | internally on the MCU, so you no longer need those. So for us, our minimal circuit is literally just 1440.83s - 1445.31s | that ground and the three volt, and then we need the RX and


chunk_text:
1394.27s - 1398.99s | Usually it's going to show a more circuit diagram, kind of like that bottom left there, 1398.99s - 1404.03s | but it could also show just a picture of the unit itself. But what this is going to show you 1404.59s - 1411.39s | is what you need to provide to this chip just to make it work. You can add your own stuff after 1411.39s - 1416.03s | this to make it do whatever it is you need it to do, but these are the bare minimum of what you 1416.03s - 1423.15s | need to make this thing turn on. So you'll see in the top one there, which is the ESP-01, they've 1423.15s - 1430.91s | got a couple resistors there going from enable and reset to that 3.3 volt. But on the ESP-01S, 1430.91s - 1434.43s | which is the one that we're going to use, they've eliminated those. They built those 1434.43s - 1440.83s | internally on the MCU, so you no longer need those. So for us, our minimal circuit is literally just 1440.83s - 1445.31s | that ground and the three volt, and then we need the RX and TX to be able to program it. That is 1445.31s - 1450.83s | all we need to make this thing work. Now they also have a recommended circuit section sometimes. 1450.83s - 1455.55s | This is not always there, but in this particular one, they had that recommended circuit there of 1455.55s - 1460.83s | that power supply reference design. That's how we know that we're going to need that 3.3 volts 1461.79s - 1467.15s | giving our badge significantly over that, which we are. So we essentially lifted out that one as 1467.15s - 1473.84s | well that we're going to use for this badge. Okay, so when you design a PCB, there's going to be tons 1473.84s - 1479.84s | of layers that it shows on here, and we'll show this once we get to the demo. But the layers, 1480.48s - 1484.40s | some of them are additive and some of them are subtractive, and so this is kind of the hardest 1484.40s - 1489.12s | part to get used to when you start using something like EasyEDA, which is the one that I'm going to 1489.12s - 1494.16s | be showing you guys today. So there's


chunk_text:
TX to be able to program it. That is 1445.31s - 1450.83s | all we need to make this thing work. Now they also have a recommended circuit section sometimes. 1450.83s - 1455.55s | This is not always there, but in this particular one, they had that recommended circuit there of 1455.55s - 1460.83s | that power supply reference design. That's how we know that we're going to need that 3.3 volts 1461.79s - 1467.15s | giving our badge significantly over that, which we are. So we essentially lifted out that one as 1467.15s - 1473.84s | well that we're going to use for this badge. Okay, so when you design a PCB, there's going to be tons 1473.84s - 1479.84s | of layers that it shows on here, and we'll show this once we get to the demo. But the layers, 1480.48s - 1484.40s | some of them are additive and some of them are subtractive, and so this is kind of the hardest 1484.40s - 1489.12s | part to get used to when you start using something like EasyEDA, which is the one that I'm going to 1489.12s - 1494.16s | be showing you guys today. So there's the top and bottom layer, and this is the actual copper 1494.16s - 1499.36s | layer on your board. These are additive, which means that whatever I draw on my board on the 1499.36s - 1505.12s | top and bottom layers, they're going to put copper in that shape or in that design or connecting 1505.12s - 1510.48s | those things. Then there's the top silk and bottom silk layer. These are the silk screen, 1510.48s - 1515.36s | so if you have the traditional green PCB with the white writing on it, the silk screen is that white 1515.36s - 1519.84s | writing. And this one is additive as well, so anything that I write or draw or whatever, 1519.84s - 1523.36s | it's all going to show up in white or whatever my silk screen layer is. 1524.48s - 1529.44s | Then there's the top paste mask and bottom paste mask layers. These are what's known as the stencil 1529.44s - 1534.80s | layer. This is where if you were ordering a stencil for SMT so you could just squeegee your solder 1534.80s - 1540.96s | paste on there, this is the layer that they would cut out


chunk_text:
the top and bottom layer, and this is the actual copper 1494.16s - 1499.36s | layer on your board. These are additive, which means that whatever I draw on my board on the 1499.36s - 1505.12s | top and bottom layers, they're going to put copper in that shape or in that design or connecting 1505.12s - 1510.48s | those things. Then there's the top silk and bottom silk layer. These are the silk screen, 1510.48s - 1515.36s | so if you have the traditional green PCB with the white writing on it, the silk screen is that white 1515.36s - 1519.84s | writing. And this one is additive as well, so anything that I write or draw or whatever, 1519.84s - 1523.36s | it's all going to show up in white or whatever my silk screen layer is. 1524.48s - 1529.44s | Then there's the top paste mask and bottom paste mask layers. These are what's known as the stencil 1529.44s - 1534.80s | layer. This is where if you were ordering a stencil for SMT so you could just squeegee your solder 1534.80s - 1540.96s | paste on there, this is the layer that they would cut out for that. So this is when you want to 1540.96s - 1546.64s | expose the copper or expose the PCB itself. These are subtractive, so anything that you draw 1546.64s - 1553.76s | on these layers, it's going to cut that off of the stencil layer. Top solder mask and bottom 1553.76s - 1559.84s | solder mask is very similar to this. This is the actual solder mask, so on the green and white PCB, 1559.84s - 1566.24s | this is the green part. Usually in EasyEDA, if you draw something on either the top paste mask 1566.24s - 1570.48s | or top solder mask, they're just going to cut it out anyway, so they effectively work the same way, 1570.48s - 1574.88s | but they are separate layers. So this one is also subtractive. It's going to cut out whatever you 1574.88s - 1580.80s | draw. Then there's a couple of different layers that are kind of more used for the actual building 1580.80s - 1586.56s | of the PCB itself. So this is the board outline layer, where that's actually the shape of your 1586.56s - 1591.36s | badge. And there's multi-layer, which is things like through-hole components


chunk_text:
for that. So this is when you want to 1540.96s - 1546.64s | expose the copper or expose the PCB itself. These are subtractive, so anything that you draw 1546.64s - 1553.76s | on these layers, it's going to cut that off of the stencil layer. Top solder mask and bottom 1553.76s - 1559.84s | solder mask is very similar to this. This is the actual solder mask, so on the green and white PCB, 1559.84s - 1566.24s | this is the green part. Usually in EasyEDA, if you draw something on either the top paste mask 1566.24s - 1570.48s | or top solder mask, they're just going to cut it out anyway, so they effectively work the same way, 1570.48s - 1574.88s | but they are separate layers. So this one is also subtractive. It's going to cut out whatever you 1574.88s - 1580.80s | draw. Then there's a couple of different layers that are kind of more used for the actual building 1580.80s - 1586.56s | of the PCB itself. So this is the board outline layer, where that's actually the shape of your 1586.56s - 1591.36s | badge. And there's multi-layer, which is things like through-hole components or if you drill a 1591.36s - 1597.20s | hole in the badge or things like that. Then there's the rat lines. Rat lines is if you have all of your 1598.08s - 1602.24s | pins set up in such a way where you have labeled the nets. So if you have a ground pin over here 1602.24s - 1606.88s | and a ground pin over here, but you didn't connect them, a rat line is where it's going to draw a big 1606.88s - 1610.56s | blue line across your screen saying, hey, these are supposed to be connected, but you haven't 1610.56s - 1614.88s | connected them yet. So that's just to help you. It's not going to be printed on the board or 1614.88s - 1619.76s | anything. It's just to help you design it. And that's same with the document layer. The document 1619.76s - 1624.96s | layer is there so that you can make labels for things that will not be printed onto the board. 1625.92s - 1631.28s | Now, a special note about that one. It's not supposed to be printed on the board. 1631.28s - 1635.52s | That doesn't mean that your fab


chunk_text:
or if you drill a 1591.36s - 1597.20s | hole in the badge or things like that. Then there's the rat lines. Rat lines is if you have all of your 1598.08s - 1602.24s | pins set up in such a way where you have labeled the nets. So if you have a ground pin over here 1602.24s - 1606.88s | and a ground pin over here, but you didn't connect them, a rat line is where it's going to draw a big 1606.88s - 1610.56s | blue line across your screen saying, hey, these are supposed to be connected, but you haven't 1610.56s - 1614.88s | connected them yet. So that's just to help you. It's not going to be printed on the board or 1614.88s - 1619.76s | anything. It's just to help you design it. And that's same with the document layer. The document 1619.76s - 1624.96s | layer is there so that you can make labels for things that will not be printed onto the board. 1625.92s - 1631.28s | Now, a special note about that one. It's not supposed to be printed on the board. 1631.28s - 1635.52s | That doesn't mean that your fab will not screw up and accidentally print it on the board. 1635.52s - 1641.76s | So make sure before you click go on a massive order that they have not put the document layer 1641.76s - 1647.89s | on there because I've had some friends that it just happened to recently. Okay. So here's the 1647.89s - 1651.81s | demo time. We're going to see if this works. Everyone pray to the demo gods. We're going to 1651.81s - 1657.33s | try and crank through as much of this badge as possible. And yeah, we'll see how it goes. 1662.72s - 1668.96s | Okay. So I said earlier that the program that I like to use to build these is called easy EDA. 1669.52s - 1672.56s | I usually use the online one, but just so I wouldn't have to worry about internet. 1674.16s - 1680.45s | I've got the local one here. So when you're first starting out, 1681.97s - 1684.13s | you're going to come in here and you're going to say you want a new project. 1685.65s - 1688.69s | We're going to call this Nibbler because we're going to build Nibbler from Futurama. 1690.05s - 1693.57s


chunk_text:
will not screw up and accidentally print it on the board. 1635.52s - 1641.76s | So make sure before you click go on a massive order that they have not put the document layer 1641.76s - 1647.89s | on there because I've had some friends that it just happened to recently. Okay. So here's the 1647.89s - 1651.81s | demo time. We're going to see if this works. Everyone pray to the demo gods. We're going to 1651.81s - 1657.33s | try and crank through as much of this badge as possible. And yeah, we'll see how it goes. 1662.72s - 1668.96s | Okay. So I said earlier that the program that I like to use to build these is called easy EDA. 1669.52s - 1672.56s | I usually use the online one, but just so I wouldn't have to worry about internet. 1674.16s - 1680.45s | I've got the local one here. So when you're first starting out, 1681.97s - 1684.13s | you're going to come in here and you're going to say you want a new project. 1685.65s - 1688.69s | We're going to call this Nibbler because we're going to build Nibbler from Futurama. 1690.05s - 1693.57s | So the first thing it's going to give you is this to draw your circuit diagram. We've already done 1693.57s - 1697.25s | that. So we're just going to go ahead and skip past that. We're going to come over here and say 1697.25s - 1703.25s | that we want a new PCB. Now it's going to show you a lot of things here about, okay, how do you want 1703.25s - 1707.01s | this PCB to look? So it's going to tell us that we're doing millimeters. We're going to do two 1707.01s - 1712.13s | layers. This means there's copper on the top and on the bottom. You can actually do tons of layers 1712.13s - 1716.69s | if you want. And it's going to put those copper layers in the middle. This gets really, really 1716.69s - 1723.09s | expensive really quick. Most people that I know of just do the top and bottom layers. I know there 1723.09s - 1727.81s | is some badge makers out there that go crazy and do like eight layers and things. I stick with two. 1728.37s - 1732.85s | That's just me. So board outline, this is where you


chunk_text:
| So the first thing it's going to give you is this to draw your circuit diagram. We've already done 1693.57s - 1697.25s | that. So we're just going to go ahead and skip past that. We're going to come over here and say 1697.25s - 1703.25s | that we want a new PCB. Now it's going to show you a lot of things here about, okay, how do you want 1703.25s - 1707.01s | this PCB to look? So it's going to tell us that we're doing millimeters. We're going to do two 1707.01s - 1712.13s | layers. This means there's copper on the top and on the bottom. You can actually do tons of layers 1712.13s - 1716.69s | if you want. And it's going to put those copper layers in the middle. This gets really, really 1716.69s - 1723.09s | expensive really quick. Most people that I know of just do the top and bottom layers. I know there 1723.09s - 1727.81s | is some badge makers out there that go crazy and do like eight layers and things. I stick with two. 1728.37s - 1732.85s | That's just me. So board outline, this is where you can pick if you want it to be a circle, 1732.85s - 1738.13s | round, rectangle, whatever. I just start out by leaving this as rectangular. I'm going to tinker 1738.13s - 1743.09s | with it in just a bit and you'll see how I do that. But I leave it as rectangular. And because 1743.09s - 1747.09s | of that, I leave these the same way too. I'm going to mess around with that board on my own. I don't 1747.09s - 1753.92s | care what they make. Oops, I think I just clicked cancel on that. So we'll just leave these as 1753.92s - 1762.80s | defaults for now. So now we have our pink board outline here. Okay, so we're going to go to the 1762.80s - 1770.74s | document layer real quick. And we're going to click that we want to add an image. Now on the 1770.74s - 1775.22s | desktop, I've got this Nibbler folder here where I've kind of picked out all of these. So we've got 1775.22s - 1781.92s | our document layer file that I've kind of preset to this. And there it shows us our little picture 1781.92s - 1786.16s


chunk_text:
can pick if you want it to be a circle, 1732.85s - 1738.13s | round, rectangle, whatever. I just start out by leaving this as rectangular. I'm going to tinker 1738.13s - 1743.09s | with it in just a bit and you'll see how I do that. But I leave it as rectangular. And because 1743.09s - 1747.09s | of that, I leave these the same way too. I'm going to mess around with that board on my own. I don't 1747.09s - 1753.92s | care what they make. Oops, I think I just clicked cancel on that. So we'll just leave these as 1753.92s - 1762.80s | defaults for now. So now we have our pink board outline here. Okay, so we're going to go to the 1762.80s - 1770.74s | document layer real quick. And we're going to click that we want to add an image. Now on the 1770.74s - 1775.22s | desktop, I've got this Nibbler folder here where I've kind of picked out all of these. So we've got 1775.22s - 1781.92s | our document layer file that I've kind of preset to this. And there it shows us our little picture 1781.92s - 1786.16s | of Nibbler. So this is what our badge is going to look like. I'm going to set this to 150 because 1786.16s - 1791.36s | I've already tested this out and that seems to be a pretty good size for us. So now we have our 1791.36s - 1798.80s | Nibbler and we put it on here. So we want this board to match that Nibbler. Now, again, there 1798.80s - 1804.32s | are lots of ways to do this in lots of different editors. This is just how I do it. I have been 1804.32s - 1809.36s | told this is the absolute caveman method, which it does kind of seem that way. But this is what I do. 1810.16s - 1816.08s | I just start dragging and dropping. I usually start out by making it pretty extreme like this 1816.08s - 1822.48s | where it doesn't go very close. Whoops. But you can just drag these things and pull them all the 1822.48s - 1828.80s | way to where you want them to go. So I'm going to pull them all super gnarly right now just so we 1828.80s - 1837.89s | can at least see it.


chunk_text:
| of Nibbler. So this is what our badge is going to look like. I'm going to set this to 150 because 1786.16s - 1791.36s | I've already tested this out and that seems to be a pretty good size for us. So now we have our 1791.36s - 1798.80s | Nibbler and we put it on here. So we want this board to match that Nibbler. Now, again, there 1798.80s - 1804.32s | are lots of ways to do this in lots of different editors. This is just how I do it. I have been 1804.32s - 1809.36s | told this is the absolute caveman method, which it does kind of seem that way. But this is what I do. 1810.16s - 1816.08s | I just start dragging and dropping. I usually start out by making it pretty extreme like this 1816.08s - 1822.48s | where it doesn't go very close. Whoops. But you can just drag these things and pull them all the 1822.48s - 1828.80s | way to where you want them to go. So I'm going to pull them all super gnarly right now just so we 1828.80s - 1837.89s | can at least see it. But then once we get this kind of close to how we want it, then we can start 1837.89s - 1841.65s | getting it tighter and tighter. And we'll go over that too, but I'll just try and do this as quickly 1841.65s - 1847.89s | as I can. Now, one of these is not actually connected and we're about to reach it right now. 1847.89s - 1852.37s | So this one here is the one to look at because now I've opened it up. If I try and print this, 1852.93s - 1857.89s | JLCPCB is going to get real mad. So when we do this, we got to make sure that we 1858.69s - 1863.49s | connect these two properly and zoom in here to make sure they're actually touching. 1866.98s - 1869.86s | Okay, so let's say that's good enough. We're going to call it good enough for now. 1869.86s - 1876.18s | Once it is close, that's when I zoom in and start making this really close. 1878.10s - 1884.10s | So I've had people ask me like, hey, how good do you need to make this? The answer is as good as 1884.10s - 1891.94s


chunk_text:
But then once we get this kind of close to how we want it, then we can start 1837.89s - 1841.65s | getting it tighter and tighter. And we'll go over that too, but I'll just try and do this as quickly 1841.65s - 1847.89s | as I can. Now, one of these is not actually connected and we're about to reach it right now. 1847.89s - 1852.37s | So this one here is the one to look at because now I've opened it up. If I try and print this, 1852.93s - 1857.89s | JLCPCB is going to get real mad. So when we do this, we got to make sure that we 1858.69s - 1863.49s | connect these two properly and zoom in here to make sure they're actually touching. 1866.98s - 1869.86s | Okay, so let's say that's good enough. We're going to call it good enough for now. 1869.86s - 1876.18s | Once it is close, that's when I zoom in and start making this really close. 1878.10s - 1884.10s | So I've had people ask me like, hey, how good do you need to make this? The answer is as good as 1884.10s - 1891.94s | you want it to be. The tighter you make it and the closer you make it to exactly how your design 1891.94s - 1898.66s | looks, the better those angles are going to look when you print that PCB. So right there, you can 1898.66s - 1903.70s | see there's tons of little dots there. And it's really just how extreme do you want to take this? 1903.70s - 1908.10s | That's really all it is. So let's say that we had that thing all done. We can come over here 1908.10s - 1914.42s | to view and click 3D view. And now it shows us there is our PCB. Right now they call it blue, 1914.42s - 1918.50s | apparently. We can make it green, we can make it purple, whatever we want. And we can select the 1918.50s - 1923.22s | surface finish here too, if we want it to be gold or silver. But for now, this is our PCB. 1924.66s - 1929.38s | So let's come back here. And now we can say, okay, we want to add another layer. This time 1929.38s - 1934.50s | we're going to add the top layer. So we


chunk_text:
| you want it to be. The tighter you make it and the closer you make it to exactly how your design 1891.94s - 1898.66s | looks, the better those angles are going to look when you print that PCB. So right there, you can 1898.66s - 1903.70s | see there's tons of little dots there. And it's really just how extreme do you want to take this? 1903.70s - 1908.10s | That's really all it is. So let's say that we had that thing all done. We can come over here 1908.10s - 1914.42s | to view and click 3D view. And now it shows us there is our PCB. Right now they call it blue, 1914.42s - 1918.50s | apparently. We can make it green, we can make it purple, whatever we want. And we can select the 1918.50s - 1923.22s | surface finish here too, if we want it to be gold or silver. But for now, this is our PCB. 1924.66s - 1929.38s | So let's come back here. And now we can say, okay, we want to add another layer. This time 1929.38s - 1934.50s | we're going to add the top layer. So we come over here and we go to copper. 1935.46s - 1939.78s | And these are all just files where I took a picture of Nibbler and I put it into GIMP, 1939.78s - 1944.42s | and I colored in each layer with like, say, green or something like that. Selected everything that 1944.42s - 1947.78s | was green, chopped out everything else, and just saved to just that one part. 1948.66s - 1952.82s | Okay, so that's how I made these things. Once we have this, I've already forgotten the name 1952.82s - 1957.94s | that I selected, or the number. So this one says 62, and I'll show you how I got to that one as 1957.94s - 1962.50s | well, is when I'm putting these in here, I essentially just guess at first. I say, okay, 1963.46s - 1967.22s | how about 60? And I put it over here and I say, well, that's a little bit too small. 1968.10s - 1972.02s | Now, I can place it like that, and I can readjust it over here and just say like, 1972.02s - 1976.90s | you know, okay, that's pretty close. Let's try 84, and just kind of


chunk_text:
come over here and we go to copper. 1935.46s - 1939.78s | And these are all just files where I took a picture of Nibbler and I put it into GIMP, 1939.78s - 1944.42s | and I colored in each layer with like, say, green or something like that. Selected everything that 1944.42s - 1947.78s | was green, chopped out everything else, and just saved to just that one part. 1948.66s - 1952.82s | Okay, so that's how I made these things. Once we have this, I've already forgotten the name 1952.82s - 1957.94s | that I selected, or the number. So this one says 62, and I'll show you how I got to that one as 1957.94s - 1962.50s | well, is when I'm putting these in here, I essentially just guess at first. I say, okay, 1963.46s - 1967.22s | how about 60? And I put it over here and I say, well, that's a little bit too small. 1968.10s - 1972.02s | Now, I can place it like that, and I can readjust it over here and just say like, 1972.02s - 1976.90s | you know, okay, that's pretty close. Let's try 84, and just kind of adjust slowly that way. 1977.46s - 1981.62s | Or I can just delete that and reenter it as a slightly different size. 1983.06s - 1989.39s | And this time I'll put in 62, and now it fits. 1990.91s - 1994.35s | So you really just kind of slowly adjust these things until they look the way you want. 1996.19s - 2002.19s | Okay, so now, if I was to, I'm going to cancel out of this. Now if I'm to go over here and go 2002.19s - 2008.83s | to my 3D view, you can kind of vaguely see his little cape there, because that is covered copper. 2008.83s - 2013.15s | We've added that copper layer, so now they're going to add copper in that spot on just the 2013.15s - 2017.31s | front. So on the back, there's nothing, but on the front we can see that copper. 2018.51s - 2024.51s | So let's say we want to expose that copper. So let's come back here, and we do another copper 2024.51s - 2032.35s | layer. Actually, well, yeah, so you can do it like this, and just make it match the same size. 2034.27s - 2039.47s |


chunk_text:
adjust slowly that way. 1977.46s - 1981.62s | Or I can just delete that and reenter it as a slightly different size. 1983.06s - 1989.39s | And this time I'll put in 62, and now it fits. 1990.91s - 1994.35s | So you really just kind of slowly adjust these things until they look the way you want. 1996.19s - 2002.19s | Okay, so now, if I was to, I'm going to cancel out of this. Now if I'm to go over here and go 2002.19s - 2008.83s | to my 3D view, you can kind of vaguely see his little cape there, because that is covered copper. 2008.83s - 2013.15s | We've added that copper layer, so now they're going to add copper in that spot on just the 2013.15s - 2017.31s | front. So on the back, there's nothing, but on the front we can see that copper. 2018.51s - 2024.51s | So let's say we want to expose that copper. So let's come back here, and we do another copper 2024.51s - 2032.35s | layer. Actually, well, yeah, so you can do it like this, and just make it match the same size. 2034.27s - 2039.47s | And now we're going to change this from the top layer to the top solder mask layer. 2040.03s - 2046.51s | Now it becomes subtractive. So if we put this on there, and we go to our 3D view, 2047.15s - 2053.15s | now we've exposed that copper. So this is how you start designing out how you want that thing to 2053.15s - 2059.74s | look. Okay, so the next one we're going to do is we come in here, and we go to our FR4 layer. This 2059.74s - 2064.06s | is the one where we're going to expose all of this as well. So it's still going to be that top silk. 2064.06s - 2069.71s | Whoops, let me cancel this, so I can actually go to the right thing. So we come over here, and we 2069.71s - 2077.07s | change this to the top solder mask layer. We come back, we go back to that FR4, and this one says 2077.07s - 2085.87s | 94. So I'm going to set that. Okay, we're going to go ahead and put this right here, and now 2086.83s - 2093.07s | when we view that again, there he


chunk_text:
And now we're going to change this from the top layer to the top solder mask layer. 2040.03s - 2046.51s | Now it becomes subtractive. So if we put this on there, and we go to our 3D view, 2047.15s - 2053.15s | now we've exposed that copper. So this is how you start designing out how you want that thing to 2053.15s - 2059.74s | look. Okay, so the next one we're going to do is we come in here, and we go to our FR4 layer. This 2059.74s - 2064.06s | is the one where we're going to expose all of this as well. So it's still going to be that top silk. 2064.06s - 2069.71s | Whoops, let me cancel this, so I can actually go to the right thing. So we come over here, and we 2069.71s - 2077.07s | change this to the top solder mask layer. We come back, we go back to that FR4, and this one says 2077.07s - 2085.87s | 94. So I'm going to set that. Okay, we're going to go ahead and put this right here, and now 2086.83s - 2093.07s | when we view that again, there he goes. Now he's starting to look a little bit more like Nibbler. 2094.51s - 2100.54s | So the last one we're going to add is that top silk layer. So now once we add this, 2102.54s - 2110.30s | oh, I didn't look at the number, 142. And again, each one of these, I just found the numbers ahead 2110.30s - 2113.02s | of time, because I didn't want to sit there adjusting in front of y'all, and have it be 2113.02s - 2119.98s | really, really boring. But once we slap that in there, now we've got our Nibbler. Now this 2119.98s - 2126.94s | document layer, we can come in here, and we can turn that off, and this is what our badge looks 2126.94s - 2134.54s | like. Now when we go to that 3D view, let's make this black, and now we've got a vague shape of 2134.54s - 2139.58s | what Nibbler is going to look like. Okay, so now that we have the art, and we're going to call that 2139.58s - 2147.18s | done, now we can start adding components. So we need that ESP-01S. So we're going to come over 2147.18s -


chunk_text:
goes. Now he's starting to look a little bit more like Nibbler. 2094.51s - 2100.54s | So the last one we're going to add is that top silk layer. So now once we add this, 2102.54s - 2110.30s | oh, I didn't look at the number, 142. And again, each one of these, I just found the numbers ahead 2110.30s - 2113.02s | of time, because I didn't want to sit there adjusting in front of y'all, and have it be 2113.02s - 2119.98s | really, really boring. But once we slap that in there, now we've got our Nibbler. Now this 2119.98s - 2126.94s | document layer, we can come in here, and we can turn that off, and this is what our badge looks 2126.94s - 2134.54s | like. Now when we go to that 3D view, let's make this black, and now we've got a vague shape of 2134.54s - 2139.58s | what Nibbler is going to look like. Okay, so now that we have the art, and we're going to call that 2139.58s - 2147.18s | done, now we can start adding components. So we need that ESP-01S. So we're going to come over 2147.18s - 2161.15s | here and say place footprint, and we can do ESP-01S. Now once you do this, there's a user 2161.15s - 2166.51s | contributor section, or user contributed section, and these are things that other people have made 2166.51s - 2172.99s | and submitted their own footprints that they use. This isn't really that sketchy. I haven't had any 2172.99s - 2178.03s | of these that were bad yet, but they are all a little different, and some people do make some of 2178.03s - 2183.31s | these very, very custom, where it's obvious that they were using this in some very unique way that 2183.31s - 2187.87s | is not how you want to use it. So just be careful to look at these and make sure it makes sense. 2188.83s - 2193.87s | The better one that I like to use is this one over here, JLCPCB Assembled, because these are 2193.87s - 2198.83s | the ones that are actually from JLC, and this is where if you change your mind about soldering it 2198.83s - 2204.27s | yourself, and you say, no, no, I want them to do it, you have to be using these footprints.


chunk_text:
2161.15s | here and say place footprint, and we can do ESP-01S. Now once you do this, there's a user 2161.15s - 2166.51s | contributor section, or user contributed section, and these are things that other people have made 2166.51s - 2172.99s | and submitted their own footprints that they use. This isn't really that sketchy. I haven't had any 2172.99s - 2178.03s | of these that were bad yet, but they are all a little different, and some people do make some of 2178.03s - 2183.31s | these very, very custom, where it's obvious that they were using this in some very unique way that 2183.31s - 2187.87s | is not how you want to use it. So just be careful to look at these and make sure it makes sense. 2188.83s - 2193.87s | The better one that I like to use is this one over here, JLCPCB Assembled, because these are 2193.87s - 2198.83s | the ones that are actually from JLC, and this is where if you change your mind about soldering it 2198.83s - 2204.27s | yourself, and you say, no, no, I want them to do it, you have to be using these footprints. So make 2204.27s - 2207.87s | sure that if you're going to have them populate this for you, that these are the ones you're using. 2208.99s - 2213.63s | Also these tend to be a little higher quality in my opinion. So we're going to choose this one here, 2213.63s - 2218.91s | and we're going to place it. So it shows it right here. So we're going to pop it down here. We're 2218.91s - 2224.03s | going to kind of zoom in a little bit. So once we grab this, we can kind of rotate it however we 2224.03s - 2229.71s | want. You can move it wherever you want. So let's put this right here so it kind of stays 2230.67s - 2235.95s | in these lines here and makes it look like it's part of our design. So now let's take this and 2235.95s - 2240.27s | let's put it on the back layer because we don't want this to be showing, which means I got to 2240.27s - 2246.94s | rearrange it again. Okay, so now if we go to our 3D view, we've got our nibbler just the way we 2246.94s - 2250.14s |


chunk_text:
So make 2204.27s - 2207.87s | sure that if you're going to have them populate this for you, that these are the ones you're using. 2208.99s - 2213.63s | Also these tend to be a little higher quality in my opinion. So we're going to choose this one here, 2213.63s - 2218.91s | and we're going to place it. So it shows it right here. So we're going to pop it down here. We're 2218.91s - 2224.03s | going to kind of zoom in a little bit. So once we grab this, we can kind of rotate it however we 2224.03s - 2229.71s | want. You can move it wherever you want. So let's put this right here so it kind of stays 2230.67s - 2235.95s | in these lines here and makes it look like it's part of our design. So now let's take this and 2235.95s - 2240.27s | let's put it on the back layer because we don't want this to be showing, which means I got to 2240.27s - 2246.94s | rearrange it again. Okay, so now if we go to our 3D view, we've got our nibbler just the way we 2246.94s - 2250.14s | saw them before. You can see those little holes there, but when we turn them around... 2250.14s - 2254.94s | Oh, I guess this one doesn't do it. Some of them will actually show. There it is. 2255.98s - 2259.66s | So now we can see, okay, this is how it's going to look. There's our little part, 2259.66s - 2271.34s | exactly where it's going to be if we put it there. Okay, so now we're going to add a 0.96 2273.42s - 2286.05s | OLED. Just trying to make sure this is the right part before I actually place it. 2286.93s - 2294.05s | Yep, that... No, we want the four-pin version. There we go. Okay, so now this screen, we want 2294.05s - 2298.93s | this to be on the front side. Now if I put it right here, you see it's on that red. That's the 2298.93s - 2303.01s | copper layer. So we're going to be bridging those pins together. So we got to be careful where we 2303.01s - 2307.81s | put this to make sure we're not touching any copper. So I'm going to place that over here. 2308.85s - 2318.43s | We'll


chunk_text:
saw them before. You can see those little holes there, but when we turn them around... 2250.14s - 2254.94s | Oh, I guess this one doesn't do it. Some of them will actually show. There it is. 2255.98s - 2259.66s | So now we can see, okay, this is how it's going to look. There's our little part, 2259.66s - 2271.34s | exactly where it's going to be if we put it there. Okay, so now we're going to add a 0.96 2273.42s - 2286.05s | OLED. Just trying to make sure this is the right part before I actually place it. 2286.93s - 2294.05s | Yep, that... No, we want the four-pin version. There we go. Okay, so now this screen, we want 2294.05s - 2298.93s | this to be on the front side. Now if I put it right here, you see it's on that red. That's the 2298.93s - 2303.01s | copper layer. So we're going to be bridging those pins together. So we got to be careful where we 2303.01s - 2307.81s | put this to make sure we're not touching any copper. So I'm going to place that over here. 2308.85s - 2318.43s | We'll go ahead and rotate it a little bit. Nope, don't want to do that. There we go. 2319.55s - 2326.43s | Let's put it right about there. Okay, so I can't remember for sure what these pins are, 2326.43s - 2330.75s | but let's say that this pin right here is a ground pin. So we come over here to net, 2331.39s - 2335.79s | and we can put that we want that to be part of ground. Let's say that this one right here 2336.43s - 2341.47s | is our 3.3 volt. So on this one, let's say that this one is ground. 2342.43s - 2349.65s | That next one is 3.3 volt. Okay, now if we turn on RATLINES, you can see, 2350.37s - 2355.09s | hopefully you can see, there's those blue lines showing me, hey, you haven't connected these yet. 2356.29s - 2362.37s | So let's go ahead and go over how to connect those. So we're going to start on the back layer 2362.37s - 2366.37s | here because we've got this red copper here. So we can't go through that with a front layer. 2367.57s - 2372.29s | So we'll go from the back.


chunk_text:
go ahead and rotate it a little bit. Nope, don't want to do that. There we go. 2319.55s - 2326.43s | Let's put it right about there. Okay, so I can't remember for sure what these pins are, 2326.43s - 2330.75s | but let's say that this pin right here is a ground pin. So we come over here to net, 2331.39s - 2335.79s | and we can put that we want that to be part of ground. Let's say that this one right here 2336.43s - 2341.47s | is our 3.3 volt. So on this one, let's say that this one is ground. 2342.43s - 2349.65s | That next one is 3.3 volt. Okay, now if we turn on RATLINES, you can see, 2350.37s - 2355.09s | hopefully you can see, there's those blue lines showing me, hey, you haven't connected these yet. 2356.29s - 2362.37s | So let's go ahead and go over how to connect those. So we're going to start on the back layer 2362.37s - 2366.37s | here because we've got this red copper here. So we can't go through that with a front layer. 2367.57s - 2372.29s | So we'll go from the back. And we're going to come over here. And this one right here, 2372.29s - 2378.45s | this one right here, it says TRACK. So we want to build a track, and it kind of snaps on here. 2378.45s - 2386.77s | We're going to build a track that comes up, comes over, and then comes down. Now we need one over 2386.77s - 2394.13s | here. So we're going to come like this, pull that over, and connect it like that. And now 2394.13s - 2400.53s | our RATLINES are gone because now we've connected all ground nets to all other grounds, and all of 2400.53s - 2407.57s | our 3-volt nets to all the other ones. Now let's say that this right here was our our data line, 2408.37s - 2414.05s | and this one here is our data line. And we still want to stay on the back there, 2414.61s - 2420.21s | but now when we go to connect this, we can't actually make it through here. Because if we do 2420.21s - 2425.81s | that, we're now connecting those two. They're going to become one net. So how do we get around that? 2427.17s - 2430.53s


chunk_text:
And we're going to come over here. And this one right here, 2372.29s - 2378.45s | this one right here, it says TRACK. So we want to build a track, and it kind of snaps on here. 2378.45s - 2386.77s | We're going to build a track that comes up, comes over, and then comes down. Now we need one over 2386.77s - 2394.13s | here. So we're going to come like this, pull that over, and connect it like that. And now 2394.13s - 2400.53s | our RATLINES are gone because now we've connected all ground nets to all other grounds, and all of 2400.53s - 2407.57s | our 3-volt nets to all the other ones. Now let's say that this right here was our our data line, 2408.37s - 2414.05s | and this one here is our data line. And we still want to stay on the back there, 2414.61s - 2420.21s | but now when we go to connect this, we can't actually make it through here. Because if we do 2420.21s - 2425.81s | that, we're now connecting those two. They're going to become one net. So how do we get around that? 2427.17s - 2430.53s | Well, realistically, I should have just started from the front on this. But if we weren't going 2430.53s - 2434.61s | to go that route, we can stop this right here. We're going to stop it shy of where we're trying 2434.61s - 2440.37s | to go. And we can come over here to this one here. This one says VIA. And what this is, is this says 2441.01s - 2445.73s | I want to build a little tiny hole that goes from the front of the board to the back of the board. 2446.61s - 2453.09s | So now I can go on the red, and I can start at my VIA, and move it over here, 2454.45s - 2460.29s | and connect it like that. So these VIAs are how you can get around all of the other lines you've 2460.29s - 2464.53s | built, or the design that you've built. Because now you're able to swap between that front layer 2464.53s - 2476.93s | and that back layer. All right, I'm trying to think if there was anything else that was major to be 2476.93s - 2485.41s | showing on this. But so anyway, I guess


chunk_text:
| Well, realistically, I should have just started from the front on this. But if we weren't going 2430.53s - 2434.61s | to go that route, we can stop this right here. We're going to stop it shy of where we're trying 2434.61s - 2440.37s | to go. And we can come over here to this one here. This one says VIA. And what this is, is this says 2441.01s - 2445.73s | I want to build a little tiny hole that goes from the front of the board to the back of the board. 2446.61s - 2453.09s | So now I can go on the red, and I can start at my VIA, and move it over here, 2454.45s - 2460.29s | and connect it like that. So these VIAs are how you can get around all of the other lines you've 2460.29s - 2464.53s | built, or the design that you've built. Because now you're able to swap between that front layer 2464.53s - 2476.93s | and that back layer. All right, I'm trying to think if there was anything else that was major to be 2476.93s - 2485.41s | showing on this. But so anyway, I guess actually let's look at this real quick. So there is now 2485.41s - 2491.49s | our badge, as far as that goes. So let's say, okay, let's say this was done. We put on the rest 2491.49s - 2494.85s | of the components. We were happy with this. We like the way it looks. We like the way the 2494.85s - 2501.89s | functionality is looking. We want to, we want to print it. So we'd come over here, and we would go 2501.89s - 2508.53s | to, well first we have to save it. Then we come over here, and say generate Gerber file. 2510.21s - 2514.45s | When you do this, it's going to ask you if you want to check the DRC. This is your design rule 2514.45s - 2519.97s | checking. These are the rules where they tell you how close you can put things to each other, 2520.69s - 2527.41s | and how large you can drill, or how small you can drill. But also things like, are you crossing nets? 2527.41s - 2531.57s | It's going to check for all of that kind of stuff. So you can say yes, you want to do


chunk_text:
actually let's look at this real quick. So there is now 2485.41s - 2491.49s | our badge, as far as that goes. So let's say, okay, let's say this was done. We put on the rest 2491.49s - 2494.85s | of the components. We were happy with this. We like the way it looks. We like the way the 2494.85s - 2501.89s | functionality is looking. We want to, we want to print it. So we'd come over here, and we would go 2501.89s - 2508.53s | to, well first we have to save it. Then we come over here, and say generate Gerber file. 2510.21s - 2514.45s | When you do this, it's going to ask you if you want to check the DRC. This is your design rule 2514.45s - 2519.97s | checking. These are the rules where they tell you how close you can put things to each other, 2520.69s - 2527.41s | and how large you can drill, or how small you can drill. But also things like, are you crossing nets? 2527.41s - 2531.57s | It's going to check for all of that kind of stuff. So you can say yes, you want to do it. 2532.21s - 2537.65s | And in our case, we passed. All of our nets are not bridging, and nothing like that. But when you get 2537.65s - 2541.81s | to that step, there is sometimes when that design rule checking is going to show you something and 2541.81s - 2546.61s | say, hey this is wrong. You can't do this. But you know that it's what you're trying to do, and you 2546.61s - 2552.21s | don't care. You can just click that no, and just say YOLO, I want to order it anyway. And they'll let 2552.21s - 2557.73s | you. So from here, you can select how many you want, and what color you want. But really that's going to 2557.73s - 2563.17s | be more, it's going to show you that once you get into JLC. Now again, you can order these from 2563.17s - 2568.93s | anywhere you want. I like using JLCPCB. I've always had good luck with them. They do great work. 2568.93s - 2574.29s | They have good prices, and they can do the fab for you if you want them to. But you can send them off 2574.29s - 2578.53s |


chunk_text:
it. 2532.21s - 2537.65s | And in our case, we passed. All of our nets are not bridging, and nothing like that. But when you get 2537.65s - 2541.81s | to that step, there is sometimes when that design rule checking is going to show you something and 2541.81s - 2546.61s | say, hey this is wrong. You can't do this. But you know that it's what you're trying to do, and you 2546.61s - 2552.21s | don't care. You can just click that no, and just say YOLO, I want to order it anyway. And they'll let 2552.21s - 2557.73s | you. So from here, you can select how many you want, and what color you want. But really that's going to 2557.73s - 2563.17s | be more, it's going to show you that once you get into JLC. Now again, you can order these from 2563.17s - 2568.93s | anywhere you want. I like using JLCPCB. I've always had good luck with them. They do great work. 2568.93s - 2574.29s | They have good prices, and they can do the fab for you if you want them to. But you can send them off 2574.29s - 2578.53s | to anywhere by clicking this generate Gerber button. This one right here is just going to 2578.53s - 2582.45s | download the files for you, and ask you where you want to put them. And now you can send those out 2582.45s - 2586.53s | to someone else. You can share them with friends. You can send them to any fab shop, and they'll be 2586.53s - 2592.29s | able to build those boards for you. Okay, so let's say we had clicked to have JLC do that for us. 2593.17s - 2601.25s | Let's come back here. We'll go ahead and click go. So this is what it's going to show you in JLCPCB. 2601.33s - 2605.25s | It also shows you a little picture of your board up there at the top. But this is what you're 2605.25s - 2611.57s | going to see. There's a lot to go over on here. But the big ones to look at is checking the 2611.57s - 2616.37s | dimensions to make sure it looks like what you built. Sometimes those can be wildly off, especially 2616.37s - 2621.81s | if you didn't connect those two board outlines together. PCB quantity,


chunk_text:
to anywhere by clicking this generate Gerber button. This one right here is just going to 2578.53s - 2582.45s | download the files for you, and ask you where you want to put them. And now you can send those out 2582.45s - 2586.53s | to someone else. You can share them with friends. You can send them to any fab shop, and they'll be 2586.53s - 2592.29s | able to build those boards for you. Okay, so let's say we had clicked to have JLC do that for us. 2593.17s - 2601.25s | Let's come back here. We'll go ahead and click go. So this is what it's going to show you in JLCPCB. 2601.33s - 2605.25s | It also shows you a little picture of your board up there at the top. But this is what you're 2605.25s - 2611.57s | going to see. There's a lot to go over on here. But the big ones to look at is checking the 2611.57s - 2616.37s | dimensions to make sure it looks like what you built. Sometimes those can be wildly off, especially 2616.37s - 2621.81s | if you didn't connect those two board outlines together. PCB quantity, obviously you're going 2621.81s - 2627.73s | to want to look at that. The next big ones to look at is down a little bit further there, 2627.73s - 2633.25s | where it says PCB thickness and PCB color. So the thickness is literally just how thick 2633.25s - 2637.81s | the board is. If you leave that at 1.6, that's your standard badge. That's pretty much what 2637.81s - 2641.81s | everybody uses. You're really only going to want to adjust that if you're trying to do something 2641.81s - 2645.73s | special with the PCB, where it needs to be significantly thinner or significantly thicker 2645.73s - 2650.29s | for whatever reason. But it is going to adjust the cost pretty heavily if you change that. 2651.73s - 2656.45s | PCB color, obviously that's the color of your actual badge itself that you're creating. And 2656.45s - 2660.61s | then silkscreen on JLC, they don't usually have any other option other than white, 2660.61s - 2664.29s | unless you're printing a white PCB, in which case your only option is black. 2664.85s - 2667.73s | More than likely, you won't need to adjust that because you can't. 2669.01s


chunk_text:
obviously you're going 2621.81s - 2627.73s | to want to look at that. The next big ones to look at is down a little bit further there, 2627.73s - 2633.25s | where it says PCB thickness and PCB color. So the thickness is literally just how thick 2633.25s - 2637.81s | the board is. If you leave that at 1.6, that's your standard badge. That's pretty much what 2637.81s - 2641.81s | everybody uses. You're really only going to want to adjust that if you're trying to do something 2641.81s - 2645.73s | special with the PCB, where it needs to be significantly thinner or significantly thicker 2645.73s - 2650.29s | for whatever reason. But it is going to adjust the cost pretty heavily if you change that. 2651.73s - 2656.45s | PCB color, obviously that's the color of your actual badge itself that you're creating. And 2656.45s - 2660.61s | then silkscreen on JLC, they don't usually have any other option other than white, 2660.61s - 2664.29s | unless you're printing a white PCB, in which case your only option is black. 2664.85s - 2667.73s | More than likely, you won't need to adjust that because you can't. 2669.01s - 2673.09s | The next one under that is surface finish. This is what's going to determine the color 2673.09s - 2678.29s | of that copper layer. If you want to do a black and gold badge, then you need to do that ENIG. 2678.29s - 2684.29s | That is immersion gold. I can't remember what ENIG actually stands for. But if you want the silver, 2684.29s - 2688.05s | that's where you're going to go with either the hassle or the lead-free hassle. Either one of 2688.05s - 2693.17s | those two is going to be that silver color that you see on PCBs. Now the last one that 2693.17s - 2699.49s | you need to make sure you look at is that remove order number. This one, I don't know why they do 2699.49s - 2705.65s | not click yes by default, but they do not. The default is no. They're going to print your PCB 2705.65s - 2709.97s | number directly on it. And the reason for this is that they want you to be able to reorder that 2709.97s - 2714.85s | exact batch. So later on when they say, you know, would you like to


chunk_text:
- 2673.09s | The next one under that is surface finish. This is what's going to determine the color 2673.09s - 2678.29s | of that copper layer. If you want to do a black and gold badge, then you need to do that ENIG. 2678.29s - 2684.29s | That is immersion gold. I can't remember what ENIG actually stands for. But if you want the silver, 2684.29s - 2688.05s | that's where you're going to go with either the hassle or the lead-free hassle. Either one of 2688.05s - 2693.17s | those two is going to be that silver color that you see on PCBs. Now the last one that 2693.17s - 2699.49s | you need to make sure you look at is that remove order number. This one, I don't know why they do 2699.49s - 2705.65s | not click yes by default, but they do not. The default is no. They're going to print your PCB 2705.65s - 2709.97s | number directly on it. And the reason for this is that they want you to be able to reorder that 2709.97s - 2714.85s | exact batch. So later on when they say, you know, would you like to reprint, you know, your previous 2714.85s - 2718.29s | batch, you can look at the badge and you can say, okay, this is the batch number from the one that 2718.29s - 2723.41s | I made. Yes, I want that exact one. Realistically, you don't want that, especially because they're 2723.41s - 2727.89s | going to put it in the worst possible spot. They're going to put it dead center front, 2727.89s - 2734.13s | center of your badge. Just check that box. It does add, like, I think it's $1.50 to remove 2734.13s - 2738.37s | the order number from your badge. It's, it's worth it. Just do that one. 2742.00s - 2746.24s | So that's all I've got for you, but go out there and make some badges. 2746.24s - 2750.88s | Seriously, it's not that hard. It's a lot of fun. We wouldn't keep doing this year after year after 2750.88s - 2756.48s | year if it wasn't. So anyway, feel free to reach out to me. If you have any questions whatsoever 2756.48s - 2760.80s | after this, feel free to come chat with me in the vendor booth. I love meeting new people. 2760.80s -


chunk_text:
reprint, you know, your previous 2714.85s - 2718.29s | batch, you can look at the badge and you can say, okay, this is the batch number from the one that 2718.29s - 2723.41s | I made. Yes, I want that exact one. Realistically, you don't want that, especially because they're 2723.41s - 2727.89s | going to put it in the worst possible spot. They're going to put it dead center front, 2727.89s - 2734.13s | center of your badge. Just check that box. It does add, like, I think it's $1.50 to remove 2734.13s - 2738.37s | the order number from your badge. It's, it's worth it. Just do that one. 2742.00s - 2746.24s | So that's all I've got for you, but go out there and make some badges. 2746.24s - 2750.88s | Seriously, it's not that hard. It's a lot of fun. We wouldn't keep doing this year after year after 2750.88s - 2756.48s | year if it wasn't. So anyway, feel free to reach out to me. If you have any questions whatsoever 2756.48s - 2760.80s | after this, feel free to come chat with me in the vendor booth. I love meeting new people. 2760.80s - 2764.80s | Do not hesitate to ask. Hope you guys all have a good DEF CON.


chunk_text:
{ "webpage_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssLu8xHMwSk", "title": "DEF CON 32 - Psychic Paper: Making eink access badges accessible for anyone - Joshua Herman", "description": "To make RFID access badges vendors in China have created eink badges where instead of printing a badge out you instead program the eink portion of the badge with an smartphone app and then program the RFID portion. At this time the ones that are sold are either black and white or black and white and red. There is no security implemented so all you need to do is download the app to reprogram the front of the badge. This makes anyone able to reprogram both the front and back of the badge.", "channel_url": "https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6Om9kAkl32dWlDSNlDS9Iw", "duration": 1610, "channel": "DEFCONConference", "uploader": "DEFCONConference", "upload_date": "20241016" } 0.00s - 8.00s | This text was transcribed using whisper model: large-v2 Hi, sorry for the set-up issues. 8.00s - 11.10s | This is my talk about psychic paper. 11.10s - 22.36s | It's how to use e-ink displays and also e-paper displays to fake the front of identification 22.36s - 33.98s | badges and also discussion about the two or three e-ink systems that are pre-made from 33.98s - 41.00s | suppliers and how they have lax security and unusual sign-up. 41.00s - 42.42s | My handler is ZittoBBGong. 42.42s - 49.10s | I'm a frequent of the DEF CON Discord. 49.10s - 56.00s | But more about who I am, I have 11 years of experience in the software industry. 56.00s - 61.24s | This is a hobby project and this is not related to my employer. 61.24s - 67.00s | I've actually had to add that to my presentations because people think that they're too advanced 67.00s - 70.90s | to actually not be related to my hobby. 70.90s - 73.00s | So what is this talk about? 73.00s - 83.38s | This talk is about the application of two to three color e-ink displays and also a design 83.38s - 93.66s | prototype of a five color e-ink display that would be much more effective in red teaming 93.66s - 99.54s | and or physical red teaming and social engineering. 99.54s - 106.02s | Anecdotally, I talked with a person at DEF CON and they were able to replicate someone's 106.02s - 115.46s | badge by looking for a high-resolution picture, copy and pasting it into an image editor 115.46s -


chunk_text:
they have lax security and unusual sign-up. 41.00s - 42.42s | My handler is ZittoBBGong. 42.42s - 49.10s | I'm a frequent of the DEF CON Discord. 49.10s - 56.00s | But more about who I am, I have 11 years of experience in the software industry. 56.00s - 61.24s | This is a hobby project and this is not related to my employer. 61.24s - 67.00s | I've actually had to add that to my presentations because people think that they're too advanced 67.00s - 70.90s | to actually not be related to my hobby. 70.90s - 73.00s | So what is this talk about? 73.00s - 83.38s | This talk is about the application of two to three color e-ink displays and also a design 83.38s - 93.66s | prototype of a five color e-ink display that would be much more effective in red teaming 93.66s - 99.54s | and or physical red teaming and social engineering. 99.54s - 106.02s | Anecdotally, I talked with a person at DEF CON and they were able to replicate someone's 106.02s - 115.46s | badge by looking for a high-resolution picture, copy and pasting it into an image editor 115.46s - 117.96s | and then printing it out. 117.96s - 126.98s | This system, while having a lower resolution, could be done in real time and also it could 126.98s - 135.56s | be replaced real time too and combined with RFID knowledge that has been done in many 135.56s - 143.28s | DEF CON talks, you could basically clone an entire employee ID badge or physical access 143.28s - 155.46s | badge that uses RFID and or other technologies like MIFID and so forth. 155.46s - 159.60s | So first we're going to go through three color e-ink displays. 159.60s - 163.32s | These can be found on Amazon and Alibaba. 163.32s - 165.60s | They are very easily sourced. 165.60s - 169.52s | They are much durable than the research prototype I have. 169.52s - 176.56s | They are reprogrammable and they have a weird way that you have to program them. 176.56s - 186.84s | So this is the nice pictures from Amazon that they put and on the upper right side that's 186.84s - 190.28s | the real thing. 190.28s - 197.26s | A good idea to understand the difference between e-ink, e-paper and traditional display 197.26s


chunk_text:
117.96s | and then printing it out. 117.96s - 126.98s | This system, while having a lower resolution, could be done in real time and also it could 126.98s - 135.56s | be replaced real time too and combined with RFID knowledge that has been done in many 135.56s - 143.28s | DEF CON talks, you could basically clone an entire employee ID badge or physical access 143.28s - 155.46s | badge that uses RFID and or other technologies like MIFID and so forth. 155.46s - 159.60s | So first we're going to go through three color e-ink displays. 159.60s - 163.32s | These can be found on Amazon and Alibaba. 163.32s - 165.60s | They are very easily sourced. 165.60s - 169.52s | They are much durable than the research prototype I have. 169.52s - 176.56s | They are reprogrammable and they have a weird way that you have to program them. 176.56s - 186.84s | So this is the nice pictures from Amazon that they put and on the upper right side that's 186.84s - 190.28s | the real thing. 190.28s - 197.26s | A good idea to understand the difference between e-ink, e-paper and traditional display 197.26s - 205.20s | technologies or not really traditional but light emissive versus non-light emissive. 205.20s - 217.24s | So non-light emissive technologies require power and they require the emission of light. 217.24s - 229.56s | OLED, LCD and so forth, by that nature, the obvious emission of light requires thermodynamically, 229.56s - 231.60s | you need a power source. 231.60s - 241.44s | On e-ink and or e-paper, e-ink is trademarked so e-ink TM, it's an electromechanical device 241.44s - 243.56s | and what does that mean? 243.56s - 254.28s | Electrical devices are devices that literally just move by an electric charge and then stop. 254.28s - 266.22s | Because they stop, they can not acquire a power source after programming. 266.22s - 274.74s | I talked with someone in a previous talk I gave at another conference and they told 274.74s - 286.46s | me that they had a 12-year-old e-ink or e-paper device with the image for that long and there 286.46s - 291.82s | was no image degradation. 291.82s - 298.74s | But why I call this three color is that technically there are three colors, there is white, red 298.78s - 300.18s | and black.


chunk_text:
- 205.20s | technologies or not really traditional but light emissive versus non-light emissive. 205.20s - 217.24s | So non-light emissive technologies require power and they require the emission of light. 217.24s - 229.56s | OLED, LCD and so forth, by that nature, the obvious emission of light requires thermodynamically, 229.56s - 231.60s | you need a power source. 231.60s - 241.44s | On e-ink and or e-paper, e-ink is trademarked so e-ink TM, it's an electromechanical device 241.44s - 243.56s | and what does that mean? 243.56s - 254.28s | Electrical devices are devices that literally just move by an electric charge and then stop. 254.28s - 266.22s | Because they stop, they can not acquire a power source after programming. 266.22s - 274.74s | I talked with someone in a previous talk I gave at another conference and they told 274.74s - 286.46s | me that they had a 12-year-old e-ink or e-paper device with the image for that long and there 286.46s - 291.82s | was no image degradation. 291.82s - 298.74s | But why I call this three color is that technically there are three colors, there is white, red 298.78s - 300.18s | and black. 300.18s - 308.54s | Now the other difference between e-paper and other light emissive such as LED and OLED 308.54s - 313.38s | is that because this is electromechanical, you technically have three colors and it's 313.38s - 320.38s | not RGB, it's white-ish, black and red. 320.38s - 326.74s | You can see this and also if you had a Kindle, it's pretty obvious that white is not white-ish 326.74s - 327.74s | also. 327.74s - 333.48s | But even in the picture, you can see what two white is and white. 333.48s - 339.24s | So that's a big thing to consider. 339.24s - 362.04s | So this is a demo, it was on Amazon about just a two color. 362.04s - 375.97s | As you can see the housing too, that will be important in the five color prototype. 375.97s - 382.33s | So you could basically remake this especially if they use only a QR code to authenticate 382.37s - 389.61s | people by just getting the data off the QR code and then using the e-ink or e-paper programmer 389.61s - 397.02s | and then scanning it. 397.02s - 406.50s | So some types of


chunk_text:
300.18s - 308.54s | Now the other difference between e-paper and other light emissive such as LED and OLED 308.54s - 313.38s | is that because this is electromechanical, you technically have three colors and it's 313.38s - 320.38s | not RGB, it's white-ish, black and red. 320.38s - 326.74s | You can see this and also if you had a Kindle, it's pretty obvious that white is not white-ish 326.74s - 327.74s | also. 327.74s - 333.48s | But even in the picture, you can see what two white is and white. 333.48s - 339.24s | So that's a big thing to consider. 339.24s - 362.04s | So this is a demo, it was on Amazon about just a two color. 362.04s - 375.97s | As you can see the housing too, that will be important in the five color prototype. 375.97s - 382.33s | So you could basically remake this especially if they use only a QR code to authenticate 382.37s - 389.61s | people by just getting the data off the QR code and then using the e-ink or e-paper programmer 389.61s - 397.02s | and then scanning it. 397.02s - 406.50s | So some types of the suppliers are, the software is made by Hippo Inc, I'm not sure how to 406.50s - 408.78s | pronounce that. 408.78s - 417.74s | The APK must be downloaded from Hong Kong IP addresses or you have to be there. 417.74s - 424.46s | There's the active version that is also $100, the non-active version is around $40. 424.46s - 432.22s | The active version has a button and a USB-C possibly to reprogram, but it's pretty obvious 432.22s - 437.06s | that they have to have some kind of battery to do that. 437.06s - 443.42s | Those need phones to connect to, the higher priced one uses an iOS device, but I'm only 443.42s - 447.50s | going to at least show the Android one. 447.50s - 451.62s | So this is more an expanded on how to reprogram those three color. 451.62s - 458.30s | You need a Hong Kong IP address, use a VPN too, MulVAD seems to work. 458.30s - 465.46s | You must silo the APK, you still must be using a Hong Kong IP address to download the APK. 466.06s - 468.02s | They have a link. 468.02s - 471.14s | You


chunk_text:
the suppliers are, the software is made by Hippo Inc, I'm not sure how to 406.50s - 408.78s | pronounce that. 408.78s - 417.74s | The APK must be downloaded from Hong Kong IP addresses or you have to be there. 417.74s - 424.46s | There's the active version that is also $100, the non-active version is around $40. 424.46s - 432.22s | The active version has a button and a USB-C possibly to reprogram, but it's pretty obvious 432.22s - 437.06s | that they have to have some kind of battery to do that. 437.06s - 443.42s | Those need phones to connect to, the higher priced one uses an iOS device, but I'm only 443.42s - 447.50s | going to at least show the Android one. 447.50s - 451.62s | So this is more an expanded on how to reprogram those three color. 451.62s - 458.30s | You need a Hong Kong IP address, use a VPN too, MulVAD seems to work. 458.30s - 465.46s | You must silo the APK, you still must be using a Hong Kong IP address to download the APK. 466.06s - 468.02s | They have a link. 468.02s - 471.14s | You must create the login, still using the VPN. 471.14s - 477.82s | It has this weird setup, you use email, you set up a password, and then you have pseudo 477.82s - 484.22s | two-factor that's emailed to you. 484.22s - 489.68s | Then you can upload the badge. 489.68s - 496.52s | The cards have 125 kHz NFC on it. 496.52s - 503.64s | The important part is, I believe, like aluminum tape or just to remove it if you want to use 503.64s - 516.12s | any other RFID technology, so you don't want to confuse the RFID or NFC sensor. 516.12s - 525.24s | The passive ones also uses NFC to reprogram, so I suggest putting on the back or just put 525.24s - 528.78s | it in your pocket. 528.78s - 532.82s | Now I'm going to go into more of the prototype design I made. 532.82s - 535.42s | So this is the more interesting part. 535.42s - 543.50s | It was not in the talk description, but I mean, why not? 543.50s - 551.50s | So as you can see on the right, there is an ePaper ESP32 circuit board. 551.50s - 555.08s |


chunk_text:
must create the login, still using the VPN. 471.14s - 477.82s | It has this weird setup, you use email, you set up a password, and then you have pseudo 477.82s - 484.22s | two-factor that's emailed to you. 484.22s - 489.68s | Then you can upload the badge. 489.68s - 496.52s | The cards have 125 kHz NFC on it. 496.52s - 503.64s | The important part is, I believe, like aluminum tape or just to remove it if you want to use 503.64s - 516.12s | any other RFID technology, so you don't want to confuse the RFID or NFC sensor. 516.12s - 525.24s | The passive ones also uses NFC to reprogram, so I suggest putting on the back or just put 525.24s - 528.78s | it in your pocket. 528.78s - 532.82s | Now I'm going to go into more of the prototype design I made. 532.82s - 535.42s | So this is the more interesting part. 535.42s - 543.50s | It was not in the talk description, but I mean, why not? 543.50s - 551.50s | So as you can see on the right, there is an ePaper ESP32 circuit board. 551.50s - 555.08s | It then connects to the ePaper device. 555.08s - 557.56s | You can see that the fidelity is much better. 557.56s - 564.48s | The white is still off-white, but it's much more high-resolution. 564.48s - 571.64s | Also there's this, but also the purple part is the bezel. 571.64s - 576.30s | The orange part is the physical display connector. 576.30s - 585.92s | The middle part is a shim that they do where it takes one connector and adds it to another. 586.92s - 590.12s | The middle part is part of the programmer. 590.12s - 601.24s | There is also a Raspberry Pi hat, and in the future, if I were to redo it, I would have 601.24s - 602.88s | done it that way. 602.88s - 614.82s | This programmer either has unreliable behavior, or when I've unplugged and plugged the orange 614.82s - 617.90s | part, it breaks my programming. 617.90s - 624.62s | So I have to do more research on that, but you could also do it as a one-and-done engagement 624.62s - 631.40s | anyways, since the person who I talked about doing the physical engagement when he printed 631.40s - 637.06s


chunk_text:
It then connects to the ePaper device. 555.08s - 557.56s | You can see that the fidelity is much better. 557.56s - 564.48s | The white is still off-white, but it's much more high-resolution. 564.48s - 571.64s | Also there's this, but also the purple part is the bezel. 571.64s - 576.30s | The orange part is the physical display connector. 576.30s - 585.92s | The middle part is a shim that they do where it takes one connector and adds it to another. 586.92s - 590.12s | The middle part is part of the programmer. 590.12s - 601.24s | There is also a Raspberry Pi hat, and in the future, if I were to redo it, I would have 601.24s - 602.88s | done it that way. 602.88s - 614.82s | This programmer either has unreliable behavior, or when I've unplugged and plugged the orange 614.82s - 617.90s | part, it breaks my programming. 617.90s - 624.62s | So I have to do more research on that, but you could also do it as a one-and-done engagement 624.62s - 631.40s | anyways, since the person who I talked about doing the physical engagement when he printed 631.40s - 637.06s | it out, he said he used it for the full engagement and nobody noticed for a month. 637.06s - 642.14s | So this is a more high-fidelity nobody looks at, but you can also do active programming 642.18s - 650.62s | by going in from one security, taking a picture about somebody else's picture with higher 650.62s - 657.43s | level clearance, reprogram, and so forth. 657.43s - 664.79s | This is the most important part and most technical part of it. 664.79s - 669.91s | I had to find a wallet that would cover the bezel. 669.91s - 673.71s | Do you see this bezel? 673.71s - 690.46s | I did find a wallet. 690.46s - 691.46s | This is on Amazon. 691.46s - 698.30s | This is not an ad for the wallet, but I don't know if you can see that this well, but it 698.30s - 702.14s | covers the bezel. 702.14s - 712.54s | And number two is your friend is also called double-sided tape, and why does that matter? 712.54s - 718.38s | You want this to generally be in place so that the bezel scene is minimized? 719.30s - 723.82s | Sometimes


chunk_text:
| it out, he said he used it for the full engagement and nobody noticed for a month. 637.06s - 642.14s | So this is a more high-fidelity nobody looks at, but you can also do active programming 642.18s - 650.62s | by going in from one security, taking a picture about somebody else's picture with higher 650.62s - 657.43s | level clearance, reprogram, and so forth. 657.43s - 664.79s | This is the most important part and most technical part of it. 664.79s - 669.91s | I had to find a wallet that would cover the bezel. 669.91s - 673.71s | Do you see this bezel? 673.71s - 690.46s | I did find a wallet. 690.46s - 691.46s | This is on Amazon. 691.46s - 698.30s | This is not an ad for the wallet, but I don't know if you can see that this well, but it 698.30s - 702.14s | covers the bezel. 702.14s - 712.54s | And number two is your friend is also called double-sided tape, and why does that matter? 712.54s - 718.38s | You want this to generally be in place so that the bezel scene is minimized? 719.30s - 723.82s | Sometimes people might notice the purple part and also you don't want it to fall out. 723.82s - 730.98s | I would also recommend to use that so it doesn't fall out either, although it's pretty tight 730.98s - 742.28s | if you don't cut anything, but yeah, double-sided tape is really important. 742.28s - 754.12s | Cutting the bezels was annoying because this is in inches and the display prototype or 754.12s - 763.85s | the display I'm using is in metric, so millimeters. 763.85s - 769.69s | So the affected display that you have to program X640 by 400, there are five colors in display 769.69s - 773.85s | which increases the fidelity. 773.85s - 776.73s | Since it's more do-it-yourself, it makes it more fragile. 776.73s - 781.33s | The RFID and NFC component can be separate. 781.33s - 783.17s | There are two ways that you can integrate it. 783.17s - 793.41s | One, cut the back of the display, I mean back of the wallet, paste the RFID device or anything 793.41s - 797.53s | inside, remove the RFID shielding because this one is shielding. 797.53s - 802.33s | I couldn't find one without shielding, and


chunk_text:
people might notice the purple part and also you don't want it to fall out. 723.82s - 730.98s | I would also recommend to use that so it doesn't fall out either, although it's pretty tight 730.98s - 742.28s | if you don't cut anything, but yeah, double-sided tape is really important. 742.28s - 754.12s | Cutting the bezels was annoying because this is in inches and the display prototype or 754.12s - 763.85s | the display I'm using is in metric, so millimeters. 763.85s - 769.69s | So the affected display that you have to program X640 by 400, there are five colors in display 769.69s - 773.85s | which increases the fidelity. 773.85s - 776.73s | Since it's more do-it-yourself, it makes it more fragile. 776.73s - 781.33s | The RFID and NFC component can be separate. 781.33s - 783.17s | There are two ways that you can integrate it. 783.17s - 793.41s | One, cut the back of the display, I mean back of the wallet, paste the RFID device or anything 793.41s - 797.53s | inside, remove the RFID shielding because this one is shielding. 797.53s - 802.33s | I couldn't find one without shielding, and put it inside. 802.33s - 807.61s | Another way would be to take a picture of the back of the wallet, make a sticker on 807.61s - 814.17s | Sticker Mule, and then use double-sided tape on the RFID device and then put the sticker 814.17s - 819.82s | on top of that. 819.82s - 830.52s | So this is sort of a basic summary of the steps to do. 830.52s - 832.80s | You could also make your own lanyard. 832.80s - 843.16s | I actually think to make a less prototype or more like a release version would be for 843.16s - 855.64s | me to replicate this white design and 3D print it, and then add Bluetooth programming or 855.64s - 869.34s | something else, and maybe also add the NFC holder on the back. 869.34s - 875.54s | So the brand for the wallet I'm using is Cavaleo. 875.54s - 879.10s | It's a police-style badge. 879.10s - 888.02s | I don't recommend using the other part because that's very illegal. 888.02s - 899.50s | You can see the resolution of this e-paper device, its wave share, and then the HID card. 899.50s - 904.82s |


chunk_text:
put it inside. 802.33s - 807.61s | Another way would be to take a picture of the back of the wallet, make a sticker on 807.61s - 814.17s | Sticker Mule, and then use double-sided tape on the RFID device and then put the sticker 814.17s - 819.82s | on top of that. 819.82s - 830.52s | So this is sort of a basic summary of the steps to do. 830.52s - 832.80s | You could also make your own lanyard. 832.80s - 843.16s | I actually think to make a less prototype or more like a release version would be for 843.16s - 855.64s | me to replicate this white design and 3D print it, and then add Bluetooth programming or 855.64s - 869.34s | something else, and maybe also add the NFC holder on the back. 869.34s - 875.54s | So the brand for the wallet I'm using is Cavaleo. 875.54s - 879.10s | It's a police-style badge. 879.10s - 888.02s | I don't recommend using the other part because that's very illegal. 888.02s - 899.50s | You can see the resolution of this e-paper device, its wave share, and then the HID card. 899.50s - 904.82s | You can either get these cards from online. 904.82s - 908.18s | You could get it by buying a Proxmark. 908.18s - 912.58s | You could get one by forgetting to return your hotel badges. 912.58s - 914.90s | It depends. 914.90s - 923.18s | There are two general frequencies, 125 kHz and I believe 4 and 15 MHz, but it really 923.18s - 931.94s | depends on the situation on what you're doing, and programming is annoying. 931.94s - 933.92s | ESP32 driver board. 933.92s - 939.10s | You can use a phone for the three-color. 939.10s - 949.58s | The five-color also has the ability to do programming online, so it's sort of weird. 949.58s - 955.10s | The ESP32 has two ways to do online programming, like through a website. 955.10s - 959.78s | One is a Bluetooth one that I couldn't get working, and two is the Wi-Fi one, and the 959.78s - 963.30s | Wi-Fi one is extremely finicky. 963.30s - 967.62s | I look in console, and if you do it, it crashes. 967.62s - 971.94s | It says post does not work, and you have to do it in a specific order. 971.94s


chunk_text:
You can either get these cards from online. 904.82s - 908.18s | You could get it by buying a Proxmark. 908.18s - 912.58s | You could get one by forgetting to return your hotel badges. 912.58s - 914.90s | It depends. 914.90s - 923.18s | There are two general frequencies, 125 kHz and I believe 4 and 15 MHz, but it really 923.18s - 931.94s | depends on the situation on what you're doing, and programming is annoying. 931.94s - 933.92s | ESP32 driver board. 933.92s - 939.10s | You can use a phone for the three-color. 939.10s - 949.58s | The five-color also has the ability to do programming online, so it's sort of weird. 949.58s - 955.10s | The ESP32 has two ways to do online programming, like through a website. 955.10s - 959.78s | One is a Bluetooth one that I couldn't get working, and two is the Wi-Fi one, and the 959.78s - 963.30s | Wi-Fi one is extremely finicky. 963.30s - 967.62s | I look in console, and if you do it, it crashes. 967.62s - 971.94s | It says post does not work, and you have to do it in a specific order. 971.94s - 977.30s | If you do it in the wrong order, you could have real problems, and I would overwrite 977.30s - 979.06s | the driver board. 979.06s - 984.92s | This is why I don't want to use this driver board anymore. 984.92s - 990.06s | There are many upsides for the Raspberry Pi usage. 990.06s - 1001.83s | There was a DEF CON talk where they did a real-time badge cloning of RFID, and they 1001.83s - 1011.03s | used Raspberry Pis, which means that you could combine this into that talk, and then you 1011.03s - 1016.15s | wouldn't even need this driver board. 1016.15s - 1018.23s | WaveShare also has a wiki. 1018.23s - 1024.91s | It's okay, but there are no alternative suppliers to this. 1024.91s - 1029.43s | This is the best solution I've seen. 1029.43s - 1037.55s | 4.01 inches is really hard to find, and also, the purpose of these e-ink, or why they even 1037.55s - 1043.11s | exist are for digital signage. 1043.11s - 1055.86s | If you go to a Kohl's, or a Best Buy, they have a lot of prices on the walls, and they 1055.86s - 1063.36s


chunk_text:
- 977.30s | If you do it in the wrong order, you could have real problems, and I would overwrite 977.30s - 979.06s | the driver board. 979.06s - 984.92s | This is why I don't want to use this driver board anymore. 984.92s - 990.06s | There are many upsides for the Raspberry Pi usage. 990.06s - 1001.83s | There was a DEF CON talk where they did a real-time badge cloning of RFID, and they 1001.83s - 1011.03s | used Raspberry Pis, which means that you could combine this into that talk, and then you 1011.03s - 1016.15s | wouldn't even need this driver board. 1016.15s - 1018.23s | WaveShare also has a wiki. 1018.23s - 1024.91s | It's okay, but there are no alternative suppliers to this. 1024.91s - 1029.43s | This is the best solution I've seen. 1029.43s - 1037.55s | 4.01 inches is really hard to find, and also, the purpose of these e-ink, or why they even 1037.55s - 1043.11s | exist are for digital signage. 1043.11s - 1055.86s | If you go to a Kohl's, or a Best Buy, they have a lot of prices on the walls, and they 1055.86s - 1063.36s | use it to automatically change it and possibly rip you off more. 1063.36s - 1066.12s | This is more about the driver board. 1066.12s - 1072.40s | It physically attaches, it connects to e-paper, and it supports Bluetooth and Wi-Fi. 1072.40s - 1076.64s | Once you do programming, though, it's not needed. 1076.64s - 1083.24s | It could be a one-and-done engagement, really, considering how it is. 1083.24s - 1086.94s | It's very slightly inexpensive. 1086.94s - 1097.80s | It's below $40. 1097.80s - 1104.44s | How I recommend is, smartphones should be able to write it to the e-paper using the 1104.44s - 1113.08s | Wi-Fi, but the Wi-Fi setup has to be programmed specifically as a static IP, and I thought 1113.08s - 1119.56s | of doing a demo like that, but it would require too much overhead, and also, Wi-Fi is spotty, 1119.56s - 1123.16s | and I'd have to bring some kind of Wi-Fi device. 1123.16s - 1128.16s | I also, possibly, if you're going to do this yourself, to add a metal plate, they're not 1128.16s - 1137.68s | expensive to do, just to make the wallet more rigid, because you can crack this


chunk_text:
| use it to automatically change it and possibly rip you off more. 1063.36s - 1066.12s | This is more about the driver board. 1066.12s - 1072.40s | It physically attaches, it connects to e-paper, and it supports Bluetooth and Wi-Fi. 1072.40s - 1076.64s | Once you do programming, though, it's not needed. 1076.64s - 1083.24s | It could be a one-and-done engagement, really, considering how it is. 1083.24s - 1086.94s | It's very slightly inexpensive. 1086.94s - 1097.80s | It's below $40. 1097.80s - 1104.44s | How I recommend is, smartphones should be able to write it to the e-paper using the 1104.44s - 1113.08s | Wi-Fi, but the Wi-Fi setup has to be programmed specifically as a static IP, and I thought 1113.08s - 1119.56s | of doing a demo like that, but it would require too much overhead, and also, Wi-Fi is spotty, 1119.56s - 1123.16s | and I'd have to bring some kind of Wi-Fi device. 1123.16s - 1128.16s | I also, possibly, if you're going to do this yourself, to add a metal plate, they're not 1128.16s - 1137.68s | expensive to do, just to make the wallet more rigid, because you can crack this quite easily 1137.68s - 1146.40s | by dropping it, so the aluminum would at least make it more rigid, and I believe the padding 1146.40s - 1150.34s | in the wallet gives you enough. 1150.34s - 1152.46s | The battery programmer is like a poxmark. 1152.46s - 1157.14s | You plug in the serial port, there's a lot of tutorials to do it, to write badge, read 1157.14s - 1161.78s | the badge from one, and then write, and then put it, you could put it behind the prototype 1161.78s - 1167.90s | badge, that's more advanced thing than your emulating, but the top three would be, and 1167.90s - 1172.98s | it, by putting in, I mean, putting in behind the prototyping badges, you put in the programmed 1172.98s - 1176.58s | RFID behind it, or keep it on you. 1176.62s - 1184.18s | It depends on how good you want to make it. 1184.18s - 1204.14s | So, any questions? 1204.14s - 1219.28s | Believe it's white, red, I believe it's white, red, black, oh, it's seven, yeah, you can 1219.28s - 1226.69s | see it here, white, blue, green, red, black, yellow, orange. 1226.69s - 1241.79s |


chunk_text:
quite easily 1137.68s - 1146.40s | by dropping it, so the aluminum would at least make it more rigid, and I believe the padding 1146.40s - 1150.34s | in the wallet gives you enough. 1150.34s - 1152.46s | The battery programmer is like a poxmark. 1152.46s - 1157.14s | You plug in the serial port, there's a lot of tutorials to do it, to write badge, read 1157.14s - 1161.78s | the badge from one, and then write, and then put it, you could put it behind the prototype 1161.78s - 1167.90s | badge, that's more advanced thing than your emulating, but the top three would be, and 1167.90s - 1172.98s | it, by putting in, I mean, putting in behind the prototyping badges, you put in the programmed 1172.98s - 1176.58s | RFID behind it, or keep it on you. 1176.62s - 1184.18s | It depends on how good you want to make it. 1184.18s - 1204.14s | So, any questions? 1204.14s - 1219.28s | Believe it's white, red, I believe it's white, red, black, oh, it's seven, yeah, you can 1219.28s - 1226.69s | see it here, white, blue, green, red, black, yellow, orange. 1226.69s - 1241.79s | It's the spinner. 1241.79s - 1248.68s | The bill of materials, if you were to redo this, would be, the e-paper display is around 1248.68s - 1271.18s | $30 or $40, the wallet is another $30, the programmer is another $20, so around $200. 1271.18s - 1279.58s | It depends on how you're doing the RFID reprogramming, you can use a poxmark, or, on the other hand, 1279.58s - 1285.99s | if it's a physical, if you're doing a physical one, you could just take somebody's and use 1285.99s - 1298.18s | the double-sided tape and the other sticker I alluded to. 1298.18s - 1316.14s | I can't hear, I can't hear what you say, software side of what? 1316.14s - 1323.49s | It's an Arduino sketch that you get, it's an Arduino sketch that is given to you by 1323.49s - 1324.49s | Waveshare. 1332.42s - 1343.02s | Do not use Arduino IDE, use the previous, the Arduino IDE have had problems, using a 1343.02s - 1350.26s | Mac has problems, using a window machine was the only way I could get it to work. 1350.26s - 1363.83s | It has this weird, when I program it, even though


chunk_text:
It's the spinner. 1241.79s - 1248.68s | The bill of materials, if you were to redo this, would be, the e-paper display is around 1248.68s - 1271.18s | $30 or $40, the wallet is another $30, the programmer is another $20, so around $200. 1271.18s - 1279.58s | It depends on how you're doing the RFID reprogramming, you can use a poxmark, or, on the other hand, 1279.58s - 1285.99s | if it's a physical, if you're doing a physical one, you could just take somebody's and use 1285.99s - 1298.18s | the double-sided tape and the other sticker I alluded to. 1298.18s - 1316.14s | I can't hear, I can't hear what you say, software side of what? 1316.14s - 1323.49s | It's an Arduino sketch that you get, it's an Arduino sketch that is given to you by 1323.49s - 1324.49s | Waveshare. 1332.42s - 1343.02s | Do not use Arduino IDE, use the previous, the Arduino IDE have had problems, using a 1343.02s - 1350.26s | Mac has problems, using a window machine was the only way I could get it to work. 1350.26s - 1363.83s | It has this weird, when I program it, even though it'll verify and it shows up in tools, 1363.83s - 1378.98s | and here's what I was alluding to, you can see how janky this is. 1378.98s - 1388.34s | You have to program the SSID, password, static IP, gateway, subnet, DNS, to connect to Wi-Fi. 1388.34s - 1397.47s | What I think was cool, or funny, was they also programmed the whole HTML website here. 1397.47s - 1402.63s | That's how they get it to, that's how they get the ESP32 to work. 1402.99s - 1406.03s | It's not a server, it's a client. 1406.03s - 1417.50s | Server.h is this website serving, server.h means to connect to a server, and then it 1417.50s - 1418.50s | displays this. 1418.50s - 1425.69s | I don't know why there's script A, B, C, and D, there's a Bluetooth one too, I couldn't 1425.69s - 1448.67s | get that one to work. 1448.67s - 1455.27s | You can see there's, it's probably hard to see, but it uses, it says, you have to also 1455.27s - 1458.43s | use the board ESP2 dev module. 1458.43s - 1466.23s | That means that you have to be connected to the internet to get


chunk_text:
it'll verify and it shows up in tools, 1363.83s - 1378.98s | and here's what I was alluding to, you can see how janky this is. 1378.98s - 1388.34s | You have to program the SSID, password, static IP, gateway, subnet, DNS, to connect to Wi-Fi. 1388.34s - 1397.47s | What I think was cool, or funny, was they also programmed the whole HTML website here. 1397.47s - 1402.63s | That's how they get it to, that's how they get the ESP32 to work. 1402.99s - 1406.03s | It's not a server, it's a client. 1406.03s - 1417.50s | Server.h is this website serving, server.h means to connect to a server, and then it 1417.50s - 1418.50s | displays this. 1418.50s - 1425.69s | I don't know why there's script A, B, C, and D, there's a Bluetooth one too, I couldn't 1425.69s - 1448.67s | get that one to work. 1448.67s - 1455.27s | You can see there's, it's probably hard to see, but it uses, it says, you have to also 1455.27s - 1458.43s | use the board ESP2 dev module. 1458.43s - 1466.23s | That means that you have to be connected to the internet to get the module parameters 1466.23s - 1471.47s | or setup, because Arduino does not come with that by default. 1471.47s - 1482.63s | What I meant by the Arduino version, so this is 1.8.29, so Arduino forks themselves by 1482.63s - 1493.87s | the IDE, where they have an Arduino IDE, and they have the Arduino regular system, or programming 1493.87s - 1496.71s | system, not IDE. 1496.71s - 1505.87s | When I tried programming with the traditional IDE, it had, I had lots of problems, to the 1505.87s - 1534.22s | point where I just reverted. 1534.22s - 1552.62s | So this is the three color dispatch being programmed. 1552.62s - 1558.18s | This is where there was an issue when I was programming it, when, this is me tapping it 1558.18s - 1561.34s | properly to, you can just, it'll cut. 1561.34s - 1573.84s | So this is, so you can see sort of the interface, and see this is my face when you have only 1573.84s - 1575.52s | three colors. 1575.52s - 1579.32s | This is the logo I made that is in the tool. 1579.32s - 1589.82s | I plan on trying to make a tool


chunk_text:
the module parameters 1466.23s - 1471.47s | or setup, because Arduino does not come with that by default. 1471.47s - 1482.63s | What I meant by the Arduino version, so this is 1.8.29, so Arduino forks themselves by 1482.63s - 1493.87s | the IDE, where they have an Arduino IDE, and they have the Arduino regular system, or programming 1493.87s - 1496.71s | system, not IDE. 1496.71s - 1505.87s | When I tried programming with the traditional IDE, it had, I had lots of problems, to the 1505.87s - 1534.22s | point where I just reverted. 1534.22s - 1552.62s | So this is the three color dispatch being programmed. 1552.62s - 1558.18s | This is where there was an issue when I was programming it, when, this is me tapping it 1558.18s - 1561.34s | properly to, you can just, it'll cut. 1561.34s - 1573.84s | So this is, so you can see sort of the interface, and see this is my face when you have only 1573.84s - 1575.52s | three colors. 1575.52s - 1579.32s | This is the logo I made that is in the tool. 1579.32s - 1589.82s | I plan on trying to make a tool that's integrated to the point where it will be, try to do the 1589.82s - 1597.90s | USB programming directly, hosted by, and or hosted by the Raspberry Pi hat, to try 1597.90s - 1606.92s | to integrate a lot of the difficulties I had with the traditional programmers. 1606.92s - 1608.72s | Thanks everybody for coming to this talk.


chunk_text:
that's integrated to the point where it will be, try to do the 1589.82s - 1597.90s | USB programming directly, hosted by, and or hosted by the Raspberry Pi hat, to try 1597.90s - 1606.92s | to integrate a lot of the difficulties I had with the traditional programmers. 1606.92s - 1608.72s | Thanks everybody for coming to this talk.


chunk_text:
{ "webpage_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGSPysbdvJo", "title": "DEF CON 32 - Preparing for the Future: A Discussion of our Rapidly Evolving Threat Landscape - Panel", "description": "Seems like the world has completely changed in the last 12-24 months:\n\nMultiple Global Conflicts\nLaunch of ChatGPT\nCISO\u2019s being held personally accountable for security breaches\nGovernment Regulations on security\nEconomic Uncertainties (interest rates, layoffs)\nAll of these changes have played a major role in reshaping the security landscape. From adversaries with political motivations to another just trying to provide for his/her family. Security is no longer just your job, but you could actually be held personally liable. Oh and don\u2019t forget that an adversary now has the ability to rewrite vulnerabilities with the click of a button, or can create deep fakes so real that a zoom call with multiple \u201cpeople\u201d was undetectable by a real person.", "channel_url": "https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6Om9kAkl32dWlDSNlDS9Iw", "duration": 812, "channel": "DEFCONConference", "uploader": "DEFCONConference", "upload_date": "20241016" } 0.00s - 6.24s | This text was transcribed using whisper model: large-v2 Hello! Hello! I can't see anybody from these lights, but I'm sensing you're out there. 8.96s - 13.92s | I'm sensing the mood, the vibes are good. Well, welcome everybody to our panel. My name is Rachel, 13.92s - 20.80s | I'm the organizer of IoT Village, and we put together a little panel on threat landscapes, AI, 20.80s - 26.24s | chat, GPT, all that jazz. So I'm going to let the panelists introduce themselves real quick, 26.24s - 34.59s | and then we'll jump into the questions. Go for it. All right. Hello, I'm Steve McGregory, 34.59s - 42.75s | I'm the director of cybersecurity R&D at Keysight. We build products that help people test 42.75s - 49.39s | their network security, their devices, make assessments of their devices. I've been doing 49.39s - 57.95s | security and R&D for since about 91. I spent the 90s running internet service provider 57.95s - 64.83s | businesses, got hacked, and decided in 2000 to really spend my time doing cybersecurity. I 64.83s - 70.27s | built an intrusion prevention system at a tipping point, and then moved into testing. 70.75s - 80.03s | I've been doing that since, so nice to meet you. So Jamie Hardy. So I product manage now 80.75s - 86.03s | adversary management at Intuit. I've been from fintech to semiconductor, 88.11s - 94.51s | back to fintech, all over the board. And yeah, I'm super excited


chunk_text:
the organizer of IoT Village, and we put together a little panel on threat landscapes, AI, 20.80s - 26.24s | chat, GPT, all that jazz. So I'm going to let the panelists introduce themselves real quick, 26.24s - 34.59s | and then we'll jump into the questions. Go for it. All right. Hello, I'm Steve McGregory, 34.59s - 42.75s | I'm the director of cybersecurity R&D at Keysight. We build products that help people test 42.75s - 49.39s | their network security, their devices, make assessments of their devices. I've been doing 49.39s - 57.95s | security and R&D for since about 91. I spent the 90s running internet service provider 57.95s - 64.83s | businesses, got hacked, and decided in 2000 to really spend my time doing cybersecurity. I 64.83s - 70.27s | built an intrusion prevention system at a tipping point, and then moved into testing. 70.75s - 80.03s | I've been doing that since, so nice to meet you. So Jamie Hardy. So I product manage now 80.75s - 86.03s | adversary management at Intuit. I've been from fintech to semiconductor, 88.11s - 94.51s | back to fintech, all over the board. And yeah, I'm super excited to be here. 95.23s - 101.95s | I actually broke out of engineering to product management when I took over IoT security at 101.95s - 107.55s | Qualcomm. So that's a blast. And I have a lot of insights from back in the day, 107.55s - 114.43s | like about five years ago from IoT, and expanding that with cloud security. So super fun space. 114.59s - 119.63s | Super fun space. Your mic's dead. You want to maybe try Steve's? 122.11s - 128.91s | You got it. Can you hear me now? Oh, shit. Sorry. Part of my French. 130.91s - 142.99s | No. Hello. Hello. Hello. Oh, we're good now. Yes. Cool. So again, Jamie Hardy. Cool. 143.07s - 150.67s | Product manager, Intuit. Where are we at? So been fintech, semiconductor, government, 150.67s - 157.87s | back to fintech. Branched out of engineering when I took over IoT security for Qualcomm. 158.59s - 163.07s | Loving everything at Intuit now. Got lots of stories to tell, lots of fun times to have, 163.07s - 169.87s | and super pumped to be here with these guys. And super excited to partner with IoT Village, 169.87s - 175.39s |


chunk_text:
to be here. 95.23s - 101.95s | I actually broke out of engineering to product management when I took over IoT security at 101.95s - 107.55s | Qualcomm. So that's a blast. And I have a lot of insights from back in the day, 107.55s - 114.43s | like about five years ago from IoT, and expanding that with cloud security. So super fun space. 114.59s - 119.63s | Super fun space. Your mic's dead. You want to maybe try Steve's? 122.11s - 128.91s | You got it. Can you hear me now? Oh, shit. Sorry. Part of my French. 130.91s - 142.99s | No. Hello. Hello. Hello. Oh, we're good now. Yes. Cool. So again, Jamie Hardy. Cool. 143.07s - 150.67s | Product manager, Intuit. Where are we at? So been fintech, semiconductor, government, 150.67s - 157.87s | back to fintech. Branched out of engineering when I took over IoT security for Qualcomm. 158.59s - 163.07s | Loving everything at Intuit now. Got lots of stories to tell, lots of fun times to have, 163.07s - 169.87s | and super pumped to be here with these guys. And super excited to partner with IoT Village, 169.87s - 175.39s | because I love what you guys are doing about, like, bridging the gap with people who need to, 175.39s - 181.31s | like, outside in their daily day-to-day, being able to apply stuff. Love it. 185.94s - 191.06s | Hi, I'm Ted Harrington. I'm one of the partners at Independent Security 191.06s - 199.30s | Evaluators, and we founded and run IoT Village. I wrote a book called Hackable, 199.30s - 203.86s | how to do application security right. Kind of talks about the things that we see from the front 203.86s - 206.74s | lines of ethical hacking. I think the ideas would resonate with a lot of people in this room. 207.46s - 211.86s | And I'm just here to learn from these guys, and to make sure that Rachel looks good while 211.86s - 216.02s | protecting her eyes. Those are my sunglasses. I buy your book. 218.42s - 224.42s | First question. How should IoT companies be thinking about the intersection of AI, 224.42s - 227.54s | security, and IoT? Steve, you want to start that one? 228.10s - 236.82s | Is this, is it working? Yeah. All right. Well, I think IoT security, IoT vendors,


chunk_text:
because I love what you guys are doing about, like, bridging the gap with people who need to, 175.39s - 181.31s | like, outside in their daily day-to-day, being able to apply stuff. Love it. 185.94s - 191.06s | Hi, I'm Ted Harrington. I'm one of the partners at Independent Security 191.06s - 199.30s | Evaluators, and we founded and run IoT Village. I wrote a book called Hackable, 199.30s - 203.86s | how to do application security right. Kind of talks about the things that we see from the front 203.86s - 206.74s | lines of ethical hacking. I think the ideas would resonate with a lot of people in this room. 207.46s - 211.86s | And I'm just here to learn from these guys, and to make sure that Rachel looks good while 211.86s - 216.02s | protecting her eyes. Those are my sunglasses. I buy your book. 218.42s - 224.42s | First question. How should IoT companies be thinking about the intersection of AI, 224.42s - 227.54s | security, and IoT? Steve, you want to start that one? 228.10s - 236.82s | Is this, is it working? Yeah. All right. Well, I think IoT security, IoT vendors, 236.82s - 244.26s | or people using IoT devices have to probably be very concerned that if you go back and look at 244.26s - 250.26s | something like Mirai, the botnet that took over all the IoT devices, they're kind of weak. 250.26s - 259.62s | So I think using tools like AI, you can probably, the adversaries can very easily put together 259.62s - 266.82s | automated attack tools and go after it and make Mirai look minuscule, potentially, right? 266.82s - 273.38s | So I think, you know, we've got to take it and build security into the product. You know, 273.38s - 278.82s | starting with our efforts to build IoT devices, make them more secure. Otherwise, we're 279.30s - 283.38s | just leaving ourselves even more vulnerable in the face of AI. 286.98s - 292.58s | Jamie? So, okay. So many things I want to say. 292.58s - 297.14s | I guess coming back to the world of IoT, the number one thing I want to say is it's all 297.14s - 301.78s | ingrained in the hardware root of trust, right? And I want to keep coming back to that. But 302.42s - 308.82s


chunk_text:
236.82s - 244.26s | or people using IoT devices have to probably be very concerned that if you go back and look at 244.26s - 250.26s | something like Mirai, the botnet that took over all the IoT devices, they're kind of weak. 250.26s - 259.62s | So I think using tools like AI, you can probably, the adversaries can very easily put together 259.62s - 266.82s | automated attack tools and go after it and make Mirai look minuscule, potentially, right? 266.82s - 273.38s | So I think, you know, we've got to take it and build security into the product. You know, 273.38s - 278.82s | starting with our efforts to build IoT devices, make them more secure. Otherwise, we're 279.30s - 283.38s | just leaving ourselves even more vulnerable in the face of AI. 286.98s - 292.58s | Jamie? So, okay. So many things I want to say. 292.58s - 297.14s | I guess coming back to the world of IoT, the number one thing I want to say is it's all 297.14s - 301.78s | ingrained in the hardware root of trust, right? And I want to keep coming back to that. But 302.42s - 308.82s | if I think about Gen AI, AI, ML, all this, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah that everyone talks 308.82s - 316.02s | about, like, yeah, we are using it to be smarter. I mean, hell, I use chat GPT every day to write 316.02s - 321.62s | whatever language I need. I mean, everybody does. And everybody uses that to write code 321.62s - 327.70s | every single day, right? And the adversaries are using it against us just like we're using it to 327.70s - 334.34s | defense against them. And it's whether it's IoT, cloud security, it doesn't matter. It's the same 334.34s - 343.78s | game. And it's quite frankly scary because it's creating them to be faster and they're creating 343.78s - 351.06s | malicious businesses off, you know, literally. I mean, quite frankly, there's sorry. 352.90s - 355.38s | My bad. There are adversaries out 355.38s - 362.50s | there literally, you know, running their books in QuickBooks, right? I mean, it's a scary thing. 364.98s - 371.78s | I agree. Yeah. What I think is interesting about what you're talking about is how, 373.86s - 379.06s | like, every emerging tech, I


chunk_text:
| if I think about Gen AI, AI, ML, all this, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah that everyone talks 308.82s - 316.02s | about, like, yeah, we are using it to be smarter. I mean, hell, I use chat GPT every day to write 316.02s - 321.62s | whatever language I need. I mean, everybody does. And everybody uses that to write code 321.62s - 327.70s | every single day, right? And the adversaries are using it against us just like we're using it to 327.70s - 334.34s | defense against them. And it's whether it's IoT, cloud security, it doesn't matter. It's the same 334.34s - 343.78s | game. And it's quite frankly scary because it's creating them to be faster and they're creating 343.78s - 351.06s | malicious businesses off, you know, literally. I mean, quite frankly, there's sorry. 352.90s - 355.38s | My bad. There are adversaries out 355.38s - 362.50s | there literally, you know, running their books in QuickBooks, right? I mean, it's a scary thing. 364.98s - 371.78s | I agree. Yeah. What I think is interesting about what you're talking about is how, 373.86s - 379.06s | like, every emerging tech, I think this is true. That there's some new tech comes around and we're 379.06s - 382.66s | like, everything's different now. And it's like, well, no, not really. Like the fundamental 382.66s - 386.58s | principles of how we secure systems, how systems get exploited, those are the same. And the 386.58s - 391.62s | implementation of the tech is different. And what you were talking about with, you know, 391.62s - 398.02s | makes the adversary faster. But it also makes us faster, too. One thing I think that is different 398.90s - 403.62s | about just we're dead. We're dead. Hello. It's going great. It wasn't me. 411.62s - 419.74s | Hello. Okay. Well, we can still hear us if we're talking without microphones. I can't see a damn 419.74s - 427.90s | person. But if you can hear us, we're happy to chat. We should be bringing a megaphone. 428.46s - 438.66s | Yeah, seriously. Bring it in closer. You want some real stories that we shouldn't talk about? 438.66s - 445.46s | Let's talk about that. Bring that shit closer. Under the verbal NDA. You all agree. Cool. We're 445.46s - 450.58s | there. They're all


chunk_text:
think this is true. That there's some new tech comes around and we're 379.06s - 382.66s | like, everything's different now. And it's like, well, no, not really. Like the fundamental 382.66s - 386.58s | principles of how we secure systems, how systems get exploited, those are the same. And the 386.58s - 391.62s | implementation of the tech is different. And what you were talking about with, you know, 391.62s - 398.02s | makes the adversary faster. But it also makes us faster, too. One thing I think that is different 398.90s - 403.62s | about just we're dead. We're dead. Hello. It's going great. It wasn't me. 411.62s - 419.74s | Hello. Okay. Well, we can still hear us if we're talking without microphones. I can't see a damn 419.74s - 427.90s | person. But if you can hear us, we're happy to chat. We should be bringing a megaphone. 428.46s - 438.66s | Yeah, seriously. Bring it in closer. You want some real stories that we shouldn't talk about? 438.66s - 445.46s | Let's talk about that. Bring that shit closer. Under the verbal NDA. You all agree. Cool. We're 445.46s - 450.58s | there. They're all dead. Yeah, every single one's dead. They're all dead. Yeah, that shit's dead. 450.58s - 458.98s | Heard a click. Yeah, it died. Someone did not like a bit of it. Yeah. Yeah. They were like, 458.98s - 468.74s | that's it. Well, on that note, great panel. Yeah. Good first question. We almost got through one. 468.74s - 473.87s | Almost got through one question. Somebody take a picture. 481.15s - 483.63s | Yeah. I mean, I would take a picture of them, but again, I can't see them. 484.27s - 487.87s | There's people out there. I swear. There are people out there. 489.95s - 496.51s | By them, I mean, I can see like the first two or three rows. Maybe. I see you and you. 497.23s - 500.67s | Walk around and do it. Yeah. Maybe just go out into the hallway. 502.99s - 509.07s | Yeah. Fuck it. Let's do that. All right, guys, we're going to come to you. 509.87s - 511.31s | We're just going to get off the stage and come to you. 519.90s - 520.46s | Totally not. 522.70s - 528.14s | It is on. Well, first of all, thank you


chunk_text:
dead. Yeah, every single one's dead. They're all dead. Yeah, that shit's dead. 450.58s - 458.98s | Heard a click. Yeah, it died. Someone did not like a bit of it. Yeah. Yeah. They were like, 458.98s - 468.74s | that's it. Well, on that note, great panel. Yeah. Good first question. We almost got through one. 468.74s - 473.87s | Almost got through one question. Somebody take a picture. 481.15s - 483.63s | Yeah. I mean, I would take a picture of them, but again, I can't see them. 484.27s - 487.87s | There's people out there. I swear. There are people out there. 489.95s - 496.51s | By them, I mean, I can see like the first two or three rows. Maybe. I see you and you. 497.23s - 500.67s | Walk around and do it. Yeah. Maybe just go out into the hallway. 502.99s - 509.07s | Yeah. Fuck it. Let's do that. All right, guys, we're going to come to you. 509.87s - 511.31s | We're just going to get off the stage and come to you. 519.90s - 520.46s | Totally not. 522.70s - 528.14s | It is on. Well, first of all, thank you guys for just going with the flow on that. That was 528.14s - 536.46s | very hacker-ish of everyone. Just adapt. Sorry, go ahead. I was letting you roll with it. This is 536.46s - 542.62s | my nap time. Here we go. Another question for us. That was cool. 550.78s - 552.94s | If you got a question, come on. Oh, and it's gone again. 553.82s - 560.30s | It's it's gone again. Is it going again? Hello? No, this works. Jamie's in charge now. 561.18s - 563.02s | All right, I'm in charge. Who's got a question? 567.82s - 572.22s | There was an attack surface question. Should we go that direction? I couldn't hear what you're 572.22s - 578.54s | saying. Actually, I didn't catch your name, but you want to come up here and maybe expand on that? 579.02s - 588.22s | Ask the question. He's like, no, he's like, no. Maybe perhaps friend. No. All right. Does anyone 588.22s - 594.78s | have any questions they want to ask? I got like three minutes left. I mean, the whole thing is 594.78s - 603.26s | about how adversaries expand on attack surface management. Right. So


chunk_text:
guys for just going with the flow on that. That was 528.14s - 536.46s | very hacker-ish of everyone. Just adapt. Sorry, go ahead. I was letting you roll with it. This is 536.46s - 542.62s | my nap time. Here we go. Another question for us. That was cool. 550.78s - 552.94s | If you got a question, come on. Oh, and it's gone again. 553.82s - 560.30s | It's it's gone again. Is it going again? Hello? No, this works. Jamie's in charge now. 561.18s - 563.02s | All right, I'm in charge. Who's got a question? 567.82s - 572.22s | There was an attack surface question. Should we go that direction? I couldn't hear what you're 572.22s - 578.54s | saying. Actually, I didn't catch your name, but you want to come up here and maybe expand on that? 579.02s - 588.22s | Ask the question. He's like, no, he's like, no. Maybe perhaps friend. No. All right. Does anyone 588.22s - 594.78s | have any questions they want to ask? I got like three minutes left. I mean, the whole thing is 594.78s - 603.26s | about how adversaries expand on attack surface management. Right. So we are using AI and all 603.26s - 610.14s | these tools to expand on how we expand discovery. Right. And I can tell you, and I just feels like 610.14s - 614.54s | a super hot mic from like port scanning, discovery and all these things. Right. 615.82s - 621.74s | We can get more predictive in terms of where adversaries are going. Right. Every port we 621.74s - 631.02s | discover, we can tell like 10 more. Right. But how do we provide the best practices for 631.98s - 638.06s | the midsize small businesses that, you know, here's the thing. You got big enterprise companies 638.06s - 643.42s | like us, and we got teams of people who know what they're doing. But then you got Joe Schmo, 643.42s - 649.34s | who's got no dedicated engineers, no dedicated tools, and nobody probably in this audience 649.34s - 655.74s | whatsoever, and they should be hiring. And so how do you help them? Yeah. That's my question. 656.06s - 662.78s | That's my question back to you guys. I love that. How do you help the small company? How do you help 662.78s - 669.42s | the


chunk_text:
we are using AI and all 603.26s - 610.14s | these tools to expand on how we expand discovery. Right. And I can tell you, and I just feels like 610.14s - 614.54s | a super hot mic from like port scanning, discovery and all these things. Right. 615.82s - 621.74s | We can get more predictive in terms of where adversaries are going. Right. Every port we 621.74s - 631.02s | discover, we can tell like 10 more. Right. But how do we provide the best practices for 631.98s - 638.06s | the midsize small businesses that, you know, here's the thing. You got big enterprise companies 638.06s - 643.42s | like us, and we got teams of people who know what they're doing. But then you got Joe Schmo, 643.42s - 649.34s | who's got no dedicated engineers, no dedicated tools, and nobody probably in this audience 649.34s - 655.74s | whatsoever, and they should be hiring. And so how do you help them? Yeah. That's my question. 656.06s - 662.78s | That's my question back to you guys. I love that. How do you help the small company? How do you help 662.78s - 669.42s | the company that's got 20 to 100 employees and no dedicated security tooling and no dedicated 669.42s - 675.26s | security people? You and me and you all know how we do this. How do you solve that problem? 677.26s - 683.18s | All I'll say, I will say is that 10 years ago, I was given a, I was speaking at AT&T 683.82s - 691.34s | and, and I did a stat and it, it, the recommendation was one security researcher 691.34s - 697.66s | or a person engineer per 100 employees or something like that. And realistically, 697.66s - 703.82s | it was nowhere ever close to that. You know, you'd have 100 or 200 employee and you have an IT guy 703.82s - 708.46s | that also does security, right? One guy for that company. And you have a thousand employees, you 708.46s - 712.94s | may have two of those guys or something like that. Right. That was the stats that were coming up. 712.94s - 720.22s | So that's where, where I'm going with this though, is in my hope is that AI, ML and AI are meant to 720.22s - 727.18s | process large amounts


chunk_text:
company that's got 20 to 100 employees and no dedicated security tooling and no dedicated 669.42s - 675.26s | security people? You and me and you all know how we do this. How do you solve that problem? 677.26s - 683.18s | All I'll say, I will say is that 10 years ago, I was given a, I was speaking at AT&T 683.82s - 691.34s | and, and I did a stat and it, it, the recommendation was one security researcher 691.34s - 697.66s | or a person engineer per 100 employees or something like that. And realistically, 697.66s - 703.82s | it was nowhere ever close to that. You know, you'd have 100 or 200 employee and you have an IT guy 703.82s - 708.46s | that also does security, right? One guy for that company. And you have a thousand employees, you 708.46s - 712.94s | may have two of those guys or something like that. Right. That was the stats that were coming up. 712.94s - 720.22s | So that's where, where I'm going with this though, is in my hope is that AI, ML and AI are meant to 720.22s - 727.18s | process large amounts of data and do things autonomously, which should help that case, 727.18s - 733.58s | right? If you can, if you can budget tools that can help accelerate the one or two people, 733.58s - 738.46s | right? Theoretically, this is, this is a good thing. And whether or not it's actually 739.18s - 745.90s | being achieved right now, I mean, I can't answer, but that's, I mean, my, in short is that I'm 745.90s - 753.02s | hoping AI is probably, it should be an answer for this problem that we deal with, with low, you know. 753.02s - 757.34s | Yeah. I love that. Like when you think about security questionnaires, right? Who here has to 757.34s - 762.14s | deal with those, right? Those are fun. Whether you're issuing them and then having to like 762.14s - 766.38s | comb through all the results and say, is this a red flag or not? Or you're having to respond 766.38s - 770.30s | to tons of them, to all the companies you want to do business with. I think that's a great 770.30s - 775.42s | example of where AI and ML is going to significantly reduce


chunk_text:
of data and do things autonomously, which should help that case, 727.18s - 733.58s | right? If you can, if you can budget tools that can help accelerate the one or two people, 733.58s - 738.46s | right? Theoretically, this is, this is a good thing. And whether or not it's actually 739.18s - 745.90s | being achieved right now, I mean, I can't answer, but that's, I mean, my, in short is that I'm 745.90s - 753.02s | hoping AI is probably, it should be an answer for this problem that we deal with, with low, you know. 753.02s - 757.34s | Yeah. I love that. Like when you think about security questionnaires, right? Who here has to 757.34s - 762.14s | deal with those, right? Those are fun. Whether you're issuing them and then having to like 762.14s - 766.38s | comb through all the results and say, is this a red flag or not? Or you're having to respond 766.38s - 770.30s | to tons of them, to all the companies you want to do business with. I think that's a great 770.30s - 775.42s | example of where AI and ML is going to significantly reduce person power because 775.42s - 778.54s | it's going to be able to say like, okay, we understand the types of questions. Here's our 778.54s - 784.22s | prepared answers. It can, it's going to be, that is a, a bright future. And it's not that far away. 784.22s - 793.98s | I think we're, so, I mean, I mean all the mics, Jesus, I mean, why can't we build that into an AI 793.98s - 799.58s | chatbot? Jamie, we're at time. Oh, we are. All right. I know. What a bummer. Ask some questions. 800.30s - 806.22s | Super smart responses. Thank you all. There you go. Thanks everybody. Sorry this was so chaotic. 806.22s - 811.42s | We'll, we'll hang out after, outside for anyone who wants to ask questions one-on-one. Thank you.


chunk_text:
person power because 775.42s - 778.54s | it's going to be able to say like, okay, we understand the types of questions. Here's our 778.54s - 784.22s | prepared answers. It can, it's going to be, that is a, a bright future. And it's not that far away. 784.22s - 793.98s | I think we're, so, I mean, I mean all the mics, Jesus, I mean, why can't we build that into an AI 793.98s - 799.58s | chatbot? Jamie, we're at time. Oh, we are. All right. I know. What a bummer. Ask some questions. 800.30s - 806.22s | Super smart responses. Thank you all. There you go. Thanks everybody. Sorry this was so chaotic. 806.22s - 811.42s | We'll, we'll hang out after, outside for anyone who wants to ask questions one-on-one. Thank you.


chunk_text:
{ "webpage_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvV0y7gKCro", "title": "DEF CON 32 - Student Engagement Doesn't Have to Suck - Dr Muhsinah Morris", "description": "Hacking Education for better outcomes / teaching in the metaverse", "channel_url": "https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6Om9kAkl32dWlDSNlDS9Iw", "duration": 1460, "channel": "DEFCONConference", "uploader": "DEFCONConference", "upload_date": "20241016" } 0.00s - 2.00s | This text was transcribed using whisper model: large-v2 Good morning, everybody. 2.00s - 5.36s | I'd like to welcome Dr. Morris for Student Engagement 5.36s - 14.14s | Doesn't Have to Suck with XR Village. 14.14s - 15.62s | What's going on? 15.62s - 17.30s | Y'all better wake up. 17.30s - 18.82s | I'm that professor. 18.82s - 23.38s | Hi, I'm Dr. Messina Morris, Molder of Minds. 23.38s - 26.02s | My students at Morehouse College in Atlanta, Georgia 26.02s - 27.98s | call me Dr. Mom. 27.98s - 29.06s | They won't let it go. 29.06s - 31.30s | So I told them it had to stand for something. 31.30s - 34.14s | And so I am the Molder of Minds. 34.14s - 37.26s | And I am here to talk to you all about how student engagement 37.26s - 39.02s | doesn't have to suck. 39.02s - 39.86s | Why? 39.86s - 40.78s | I know it. 40.78s - 44.30s | I was a biomolecular chemistry PhD student 44.30s - 48.66s | who had teachers that talked to me like this. 48.66s - 54.46s | Today, we're going to be. 54.46s - 56.22s | Did y'all just learn some chemistry? 56.22s - 56.94s | Oh, you didn't. 56.94s - 59.02s | OK, so I had to go teach myself. 59.02s - 62.58s | And so I became a professor to make chemistry 62.58s - 66.22s | more accessible for more people, because we need more people 66.22s - 69.14s | to see molecules like me, right? 69.14s - 72.54s | OK, so student engagement doesn't have to suck. 72.54s - 74.14s | I'm Dr. Messina Morris. 74.14s - 75.86s | You can find me at Unite the Metaverse. 75.86s - 77.26s | And I have an assignment for you. 77.26s - 78.82s | And I know some of you all want to do it. 78.82s - 79.90s | And some of you all don't. 79.90s - 83.10s | So I have two different options. 83.10s - 85.30s | Here's a QR code, OK? 85.30s - 86.86s | If you want to stay


chunk_text:
40.78s | I know it. 40.78s - 44.30s | I was a biomolecular chemistry PhD student 44.30s - 48.66s | who had teachers that talked to me like this. 48.66s - 54.46s | Today, we're going to be. 54.46s - 56.22s | Did y'all just learn some chemistry? 56.22s - 56.94s | Oh, you didn't. 56.94s - 59.02s | OK, so I had to go teach myself. 59.02s - 62.58s | And so I became a professor to make chemistry 62.58s - 66.22s | more accessible for more people, because we need more people 66.22s - 69.14s | to see molecules like me, right? 69.14s - 72.54s | OK, so student engagement doesn't have to suck. 72.54s - 74.14s | I'm Dr. Messina Morris. 74.14s - 75.86s | You can find me at Unite the Metaverse. 75.86s - 77.26s | And I have an assignment for you. 77.26s - 78.82s | And I know some of you all want to do it. 78.82s - 79.90s | And some of you all don't. 79.90s - 83.10s | So I have two different options. 83.10s - 85.30s | Here's a QR code, OK? 85.30s - 86.86s | If you want to stay linked in with me, 86.86s - 88.98s | because sometimes after a talk goes, 88.98s - 90.26s | you want to talk to the people. 90.26s - 92.86s | But you can't, because they're flying off to another event. 92.86s - 94.02s | So go ahead and get this. 94.02s - 95.94s | And I can stay in contact with you. 95.94s - 97.50s | This is the QR code. 97.50s - 100.78s | And then I'll give you. 100.78s - 102.78s | And then if you want to just follow me, 102.78s - 104.94s | you go to my website and then put 104.94s - 109.46s | that I met you at DEFCON at UniteTheMetaverse.com 109.46s - 111.98s | in the contact submission, however you want to do it. 111.98s - 113.38s | Those are your two options. 113.38s - 115.58s | Go to my website or get this QR code 115.58s - 116.82s | and put your information in. 116.82s - 118.28s | I'll put you on my server, because I 118.28s - 121.10s | am training 1,000 educators and 1,000 student creators 121.10s - 123.86s | to do what I do, OK? 123.86s - 125.50s | I


chunk_text:
linked in with me, 86.86s - 88.98s | because sometimes after a talk goes, 88.98s - 90.26s | you want to talk to the people. 90.26s - 92.86s | But you can't, because they're flying off to another event. 92.86s - 94.02s | So go ahead and get this. 94.02s - 95.94s | And I can stay in contact with you. 95.94s - 97.50s | This is the QR code. 97.50s - 100.78s | And then I'll give you. 100.78s - 102.78s | And then if you want to just follow me, 102.78s - 104.94s | you go to my website and then put 104.94s - 109.46s | that I met you at DEFCON at UniteTheMetaverse.com 109.46s - 111.98s | in the contact submission, however you want to do it. 111.98s - 113.38s | Those are your two options. 113.38s - 115.58s | Go to my website or get this QR code 115.58s - 116.82s | and put your information in. 116.82s - 118.28s | I'll put you on my server, because I 118.28s - 121.10s | am training 1,000 educators and 1,000 student creators 121.10s - 123.86s | to do what I do, OK? 123.86s - 125.50s | I think all of my students are ready. 125.50s - 127.86s | So let's go. 127.86s - 129.22s | All right. 129.22s - 131.98s | So why AITAs? 131.98s - 137.90s | So people might say, why would you put AI teaching assistants 137.90s - 138.98s | in schools? 138.98s - 141.86s | Because they're going to get rid of teachers. 141.86s - 143.90s | Well, let me just help you understand 143.90s - 146.14s | as an educator the capacity. 146.14s - 149.50s | It's not even as many students as I typically 149.50s - 153.38s | have in one period in this particular classroom. 153.38s - 155.14s | In a lecture hall, there's usually hundreds 155.14s - 157.22s | of students in chemistry. 157.22s - 160.26s | And so when there are hundreds of students 160.26s - 161.82s | and you have no teaching assistant, 161.82s - 163.58s | or you might have one or maybe two 163.58s - 165.34s | that are also graduate students that 165.34s - 168.10s | are matriculating through their graduate experience, 168.10s - 171.38s | they don't have time to get to all of the student questions. 171.38s - 173.46s | And you


chunk_text:
think all of my students are ready. 125.50s - 127.86s | So let's go. 127.86s - 129.22s | All right. 129.22s - 131.98s | So why AITAs? 131.98s - 137.90s | So people might say, why would you put AI teaching assistants 137.90s - 138.98s | in schools? 138.98s - 141.86s | Because they're going to get rid of teachers. 141.86s - 143.90s | Well, let me just help you understand 143.90s - 146.14s | as an educator the capacity. 146.14s - 149.50s | It's not even as many students as I typically 149.50s - 153.38s | have in one period in this particular classroom. 153.38s - 155.14s | In a lecture hall, there's usually hundreds 155.14s - 157.22s | of students in chemistry. 157.22s - 160.26s | And so when there are hundreds of students 160.26s - 161.82s | and you have no teaching assistant, 161.82s - 163.58s | or you might have one or maybe two 163.58s - 165.34s | that are also graduate students that 165.34s - 168.10s | are matriculating through their graduate experience, 168.10s - 171.38s | they don't have time to get to all of the student questions. 171.38s - 173.46s | And you just don't have enough time in the day. 173.46s - 177.06s | So I have given my cell phone number out since 2009 177.06s - 180.32s | to students saying, please just contact me 180.32s - 183.22s | if you need anything, creating accessibility. 183.22s - 185.98s | Well, historically, when they used AI-powered teaching 185.98s - 188.10s | assistants, they were just chatbots. 188.10s - 192.22s | And so why are we using this now? 192.22s - 194.42s | They're 3D, they're spatial, and they're 194.42s - 196.82s | in unique environments. 196.82s - 199.70s | But it's going to help us enhance efficiency and reduce 199.70s - 201.34s | administrative burden. 201.34s - 203.18s | It's going to help us personalize learning 203.18s - 206.46s | and student support, and then improve access to information, 206.46s - 208.34s | because I'm a chemist that wants to do that, 208.34s - 211.54s | and then enhance classroom interaction. 211.54s - 214.54s | So when you think about the future of what classrooms are, 214.54s - 217.30s | you might think that the classrooms actually 217.30s - 218.96s | look like what you're seeing on day one. 218.96s - 220.54s


chunk_text:
just don't have enough time in the day. 173.46s - 177.06s | So I have given my cell phone number out since 2009 177.06s - 180.32s | to students saying, please just contact me 180.32s - 183.22s | if you need anything, creating accessibility. 183.22s - 185.98s | Well, historically, when they used AI-powered teaching 185.98s - 188.10s | assistants, they were just chatbots. 188.10s - 192.22s | And so why are we using this now? 192.22s - 194.42s | They're 3D, they're spatial, and they're 194.42s - 196.82s | in unique environments. 196.82s - 199.70s | But it's going to help us enhance efficiency and reduce 199.70s - 201.34s | administrative burden. 201.34s - 203.18s | It's going to help us personalize learning 203.18s - 206.46s | and student support, and then improve access to information, 206.46s - 208.34s | because I'm a chemist that wants to do that, 208.34s - 211.54s | and then enhance classroom interaction. 211.54s - 214.54s | So when you think about the future of what classrooms are, 214.54s - 217.30s | you might think that the classrooms actually 217.30s - 218.96s | look like what you're seeing on day one. 218.96s - 220.54s | They still look like whatever it looked 220.54s - 222.86s | like when you were in school. 222.86s - 224.06s | It has not evolved. 224.06s - 226.06s | Education has not evolved. 226.06s - 229.90s | But even still in the world, we are 229.90s - 232.30s | in the age of the intelligent classroom 232.30s - 235.18s | where we should, where AI technology 235.18s - 238.34s | and educational pedagogy are going to intersect. 238.38s - 241.06s | And so I coined the term metaversive teaching 241.06s - 243.58s | and learning when I created the Metaversity at Morehouse 243.58s - 246.98s | College, so that people could understand 246.98s - 249.38s | that there's a pedagogical approach to making 249.38s - 252.34s | virtual reality of the classroom and doing it effectively, 252.34s - 255.58s | as well as using AI-powered teaching assistants. 255.58s - 257.86s | All of the technologies that undergird 257.86s - 259.86s | what is going to be the metaverse, 259.86s - 262.62s | or what will be the next iteration of the web 262.62s - 264.86s | as we go into this fourth industrial revolution, 264.86s - 268.42s | it's


chunk_text:
| They still look like whatever it looked 220.54s - 222.86s | like when you were in school. 222.86s - 224.06s | It has not evolved. 224.06s - 226.06s | Education has not evolved. 226.06s - 229.90s | But even still in the world, we are 229.90s - 232.30s | in the age of the intelligent classroom 232.30s - 235.18s | where we should, where AI technology 235.18s - 238.34s | and educational pedagogy are going to intersect. 238.38s - 241.06s | And so I coined the term metaversive teaching 241.06s - 243.58s | and learning when I created the Metaversity at Morehouse 243.58s - 246.98s | College, so that people could understand 246.98s - 249.38s | that there's a pedagogical approach to making 249.38s - 252.34s | virtual reality of the classroom and doing it effectively, 252.34s - 255.58s | as well as using AI-powered teaching assistants. 255.58s - 257.86s | All of the technologies that undergird 257.86s - 259.86s | what is going to be the metaverse, 259.86s - 262.62s | or what will be the next iteration of the web 262.62s - 264.86s | as we go into this fourth industrial revolution, 264.86s - 268.42s | it's really important that our students are understanding 268.42s - 273.86s | at the college level what the new future of work looks like. 273.86s - 276.38s | There is a disconnect. 276.38s - 279.66s | So a lot of the issues that I have, 279.66s - 288.84s | or a lot of my professors have with me even doing this is, 288.84s - 289.84s | what do y'all think? 289.84s - 291.08s | Let me hear from the audience. 291.08s - 293.88s | What do you think the teachers are saying about this? 293.88s - 296.52s | What are educators saying about AI-powered teaching 296.52s - 298.48s | assistants? 298.48s - 300.12s | Go. 300.12s - 304.37s | We're not ready for that. 304.37s - 306.01s | Crazy is never going to work. 306.01s - 308.33s | What else? 308.33s - 310.13s | It's not personal enough. 310.13s - 311.25s | That's the one. 311.25s - 313.13s | Anybody else? 313.13s - 316.65s | We're going to replace human beings, right? 316.65s - 318.53s | Yes. 318.53s - 319.93s | Say it again? 319.93s - 321.25s | Cheating. 321.25s - 321.89s | Cheating. 321.89s - 322.41s | Well, guess what?


chunk_text:
really important that our students are understanding 268.42s - 273.86s | at the college level what the new future of work looks like. 273.86s - 276.38s | There is a disconnect. 276.38s - 279.66s | So a lot of the issues that I have, 279.66s - 288.84s | or a lot of my professors have with me even doing this is, 288.84s - 289.84s | what do y'all think? 289.84s - 291.08s | Let me hear from the audience. 291.08s - 293.88s | What do you think the teachers are saying about this? 293.88s - 296.52s | What are educators saying about AI-powered teaching 296.52s - 298.48s | assistants? 298.48s - 300.12s | Go. 300.12s - 304.37s | We're not ready for that. 304.37s - 306.01s | Crazy is never going to work. 306.01s - 308.33s | What else? 308.33s - 310.13s | It's not personal enough. 310.13s - 311.25s | That's the one. 311.25s - 313.13s | Anybody else? 313.13s - 316.65s | We're going to replace human beings, right? 316.65s - 318.53s | Yes. 318.53s - 319.93s | Say it again? 319.93s - 321.25s | Cheating. 321.25s - 321.89s | Cheating. 321.89s - 322.41s | Well, guess what? 322.41s - 323.89s | They're going to do it anyway. 323.89s - 325.69s | What else? 325.69s - 328.61s | If you're going to cheat life, you're going to do it anyway. 329.41s - 332.49s | So the biggest thing is, we are trying 332.49s - 335.89s | to engage students to learn and comb through information. 335.89s - 339.53s | And we are in the age of what I call the connected student. 339.53s - 343.01s | Students who literally have been scrolling, 343.01s - 347.09s | were born into this technology, don't know quite how to use it, 347.09s - 349.17s | don't ethically know how to use it, 349.17s - 352.21s | didn't see the evolution of it, but it's here. 352.21s - 355.29s | And so they use it however they feel like it. 355.29s - 359.01s | And since there is really no safe guardrails on it, 359.01s - 362.01s | teachers are afraid of what could be. 362.01s - 366.17s | So I created this platform along with my educational partners, 366.17s - 371.45s | Victory XR, to make sure that we had a tool that teachers could 371.45s - 374.53s | use so


chunk_text:
322.41s - 323.89s | They're going to do it anyway. 323.89s - 325.69s | What else? 325.69s - 328.61s | If you're going to cheat life, you're going to do it anyway. 329.41s - 332.49s | So the biggest thing is, we are trying 332.49s - 335.89s | to engage students to learn and comb through information. 335.89s - 339.53s | And we are in the age of what I call the connected student. 339.53s - 343.01s | Students who literally have been scrolling, 343.01s - 347.09s | were born into this technology, don't know quite how to use it, 347.09s - 349.17s | don't ethically know how to use it, 349.17s - 352.21s | didn't see the evolution of it, but it's here. 352.21s - 355.29s | And so they use it however they feel like it. 355.29s - 359.01s | And since there is really no safe guardrails on it, 359.01s - 362.01s | teachers are afraid of what could be. 362.01s - 366.17s | So I created this platform along with my educational partners, 366.17s - 371.45s | Victory XR, to make sure that we had a tool that teachers could 371.45s - 374.53s | use so that they wouldn't say, oh, we're 374.53s - 377.49s | going to erase human beings out of the classroom. 377.49s - 380.25s | Because literally, human intelligence 380.25s - 382.29s | created artificial intelligence. 382.29s - 385.01s | And I know all of you all in the room know this. 385.01s - 390.51s | But for some reason, it didn't trickle down to education. 390.51s - 394.87s | So we are building an emotionally intelligent 394.87s - 397.95s | conversational AITA model. 397.95s - 400.11s | And I'm going to show you what that looks like. 400.11s - 401.63s | I'm going to do a demo of it. 401.63s - 405.63s | But let me get through just the meat of this conversation. 405.63s - 410.35s | Because I want you to see it in order to understand it. 410.35s - 414.91s | But who remembers Homework Helpline as just me? 414.91s - 417.11s | Homework Hotline, call. 417.11s - 418.51s | OK, for help, just me. 418.51s - 421.55s | OK, we failed y'all, the rest of y'all in here. 421.55s - 423.47s | We should have had Homework Helpline for you. 423.47s - 426.27s | But anyway, you


chunk_text:
that they wouldn't say, oh, we're 374.53s - 377.49s | going to erase human beings out of the classroom. 377.49s - 380.25s | Because literally, human intelligence 380.25s - 382.29s | created artificial intelligence. 382.29s - 385.01s | And I know all of you all in the room know this. 385.01s - 390.51s | But for some reason, it didn't trickle down to education. 390.51s - 394.87s | So we are building an emotionally intelligent 394.87s - 397.95s | conversational AITA model. 397.95s - 400.11s | And I'm going to show you what that looks like. 400.11s - 401.63s | I'm going to do a demo of it. 401.63s - 405.63s | But let me get through just the meat of this conversation. 405.63s - 410.35s | Because I want you to see it in order to understand it. 410.35s - 414.91s | But who remembers Homework Helpline as just me? 414.91s - 417.11s | Homework Hotline, call. 417.11s - 418.51s | OK, for help, just me. 418.51s - 421.55s | OK, we failed y'all, the rest of y'all in here. 421.55s - 423.47s | We should have had Homework Helpline for you. 423.47s - 426.27s | But anyway, you used to be able to pick up your phone 426.27s - 428.59s | and call for help. 428.59s - 429.87s | Uh-oh. 429.87s - 432.27s | See, it's not going to act right. 432.27s - 433.11s | Come on, Canva. 433.11s - 435.99s | Don't act wrong. 435.99s - 439.45s | OK, don't worry about it. 439.45s - 440.77s | It's not going to, my thing. 440.77s - 444.29s | OK, so AI is a new TA. 444.29s - 446.21s | And if you remember Homework Helpline, 446.21s - 450.61s | then you remember that it was access to information 24-7. 450.61s - 452.49s | If your students came home from school, 452.49s - 455.17s | they could call up somebody and get help. 455.17s - 457.01s | Now, the thing about Homework Helpline 457.01s - 459.21s | is there used to be a teacher on the other line. 459.21s - 461.01s | And there used to be a teacher sitting there 461.01s - 462.69s | with all their books behind them, 462.69s - 465.53s | trying to figure out what the heck your homework talking 465.53s - 467.57s | about, which is also hard. 467.57s - 469.89s | And


chunk_text:
used to be able to pick up your phone 426.27s - 428.59s | and call for help. 428.59s - 429.87s | Uh-oh. 429.87s - 432.27s | See, it's not going to act right. 432.27s - 433.11s | Come on, Canva. 433.11s - 435.99s | Don't act wrong. 435.99s - 439.45s | OK, don't worry about it. 439.45s - 440.77s | It's not going to, my thing. 440.77s - 444.29s | OK, so AI is a new TA. 444.29s - 446.21s | And if you remember Homework Helpline, 446.21s - 450.61s | then you remember that it was access to information 24-7. 450.61s - 452.49s | If your students came home from school, 452.49s - 455.17s | they could call up somebody and get help. 455.17s - 457.01s | Now, the thing about Homework Helpline 457.01s - 459.21s | is there used to be a teacher on the other line. 459.21s - 461.01s | And there used to be a teacher sitting there 461.01s - 462.69s | with all their books behind them, 462.69s - 465.53s | trying to figure out what the heck your homework talking 465.53s - 467.57s | about, which is also hard. 467.57s - 469.89s | And that's the problem with tutoring in general, 469.89s - 471.61s | is that you don't know where the learning 471.61s - 472.73s | losses are for students. 472.73s - 475.25s | You don't know where the gaps in understanding are. 475.25s - 479.65s | But in the back end of our interface of this AI teaching 479.65s - 482.09s | assistant, this kind of like Homework Helpline, 482.09s - 484.01s | we actually do have formative assessment. 484.01s - 485.53s | So I can track and see. 485.53s - 488.97s | And I can see the transcript of all my students on the back end. 488.97s - 493.21s | And it's closed off to go into my lessons first and all 493.21s - 495.01s | of the resources that I put up there, 495.01s - 497.65s | open educational resources that I have put together 497.65s - 501.25s | and cultivated over years of my craft. 501.25s - 504.37s | And it's going to go there and lead them and guide them 504.37s - 507.17s | through scripted lessons that I've created. 507.17s - 512.21s | So now, it's going to force them to go through the resources 512.21s -


chunk_text:
that's the problem with tutoring in general, 469.89s - 471.61s | is that you don't know where the learning 471.61s - 472.73s | losses are for students. 472.73s - 475.25s | You don't know where the gaps in understanding are. 475.25s - 479.65s | But in the back end of our interface of this AI teaching 479.65s - 482.09s | assistant, this kind of like Homework Helpline, 482.09s - 484.01s | we actually do have formative assessment. 484.01s - 485.53s | So I can track and see. 485.53s - 488.97s | And I can see the transcript of all my students on the back end. 488.97s - 493.21s | And it's closed off to go into my lessons first and all 493.21s - 495.01s | of the resources that I put up there, 495.01s - 497.65s | open educational resources that I have put together 497.65s - 501.25s | and cultivated over years of my craft. 501.25s - 504.37s | And it's going to go there and lead them and guide them 504.37s - 507.17s | through scripted lessons that I've created. 507.17s - 512.21s | So now, it's going to force them to go through the resources 512.21s - 516.29s | that I've created first and then go back. 516.29s - 518.65s | And it also then detracts them. 518.65s - 522.29s | So if they get off the topic and just say, hey, 522.29s - 524.77s | well, I want to know, how do you make blue earrings? 524.77s - 525.93s | And it's a chemistry class. 525.93s - 528.21s | It's going to say, hmm, the color blue 528.21s - 529.49s | is going to think for a while. 529.49s - 531.85s | And it'll probably come back with something like, well, 531.85s - 535.93s | the color blue is a reflection of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 535.93s - 537.69s | But we're talking about chemistry. 537.69s - 540.53s | And the lesson is about atomic number. 540.53s - 542.17s | So let's shift back. 542.17s - 544.17s | And it's going to do that for students, which 544.17s - 546.33s | is a great way to redirect them. 546.33s - 549.05s | Students can also interrupt and answer questions 549.05s - 551.49s | and ask questions in the middle. 551.49s - 557.17s | And it recognizes different dialects as well as languages. 557.17s - 559.41s


chunk_text:
516.29s | that I've created first and then go back. 516.29s - 518.65s | And it also then detracts them. 518.65s - 522.29s | So if they get off the topic and just say, hey, 522.29s - 524.77s | well, I want to know, how do you make blue earrings? 524.77s - 525.93s | And it's a chemistry class. 525.93s - 528.21s | It's going to say, hmm, the color blue 528.21s - 529.49s | is going to think for a while. 529.49s - 531.85s | And it'll probably come back with something like, well, 531.85s - 535.93s | the color blue is a reflection of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 535.93s - 537.69s | But we're talking about chemistry. 537.69s - 540.53s | And the lesson is about atomic number. 540.53s - 542.17s | So let's shift back. 542.17s - 544.17s | And it's going to do that for students, which 544.17s - 546.33s | is a great way to redirect them. 546.33s - 549.05s | Students can also interrupt and answer questions 549.05s - 551.49s | and ask questions in the middle. 551.49s - 557.17s | And it recognizes different dialects as well as languages. 557.17s - 559.41s | So how do I think I can do this? 559.41s - 562.09s | So somebody said, we're not ready for it. 562.09s - 564.01s | Somebody said, we can't do it. 564.01s - 564.97s | It's going to fail. 564.97s - 568.45s | But I have already proved a model will work in the hardest 568.45s - 569.49s | time possible. 569.49s - 571.65s | During a pandemic in the spring of 2021, 571.65s - 573.29s | I launched Morehouse in the metaverse 573.29s - 575.69s | along with three other professors of mine 575.69s - 577.73s | in English, history, and biology. 577.73s - 579.01s | And I'm the only chemist. 579.01s - 582.89s | And I'm launching in advanced inorganic chemistry. 582.89s - 586.17s | There was no chemistry content at all, 586.17s - 589.53s | no 3D spatial assets, hardly anything. 589.53s - 593.17s | So all of what I was creating was created along 593.17s - 595.53s | with software developers, along with everybody. 595.53s - 600.17s | And I had to learn how to use my techies across 600.17s - 602.53s | to be more interdisciplinary than I've ever been, 602.53s - 604.57s |


chunk_text:
| So how do I think I can do this? 559.41s - 562.09s | So somebody said, we're not ready for it. 562.09s - 564.01s | Somebody said, we can't do it. 564.01s - 564.97s | It's going to fail. 564.97s - 568.45s | But I have already proved a model will work in the hardest 568.45s - 569.49s | time possible. 569.49s - 571.65s | During a pandemic in the spring of 2021, 571.65s - 573.29s | I launched Morehouse in the metaverse 573.29s - 575.69s | along with three other professors of mine 575.69s - 577.73s | in English, history, and biology. 577.73s - 579.01s | And I'm the only chemist. 579.01s - 582.89s | And I'm launching in advanced inorganic chemistry. 582.89s - 586.17s | There was no chemistry content at all, 586.17s - 589.53s | no 3D spatial assets, hardly anything. 589.53s - 593.17s | So all of what I was creating was created along 593.17s - 595.53s | with software developers, along with everybody. 595.53s - 600.17s | And I had to learn how to use my techies across 600.17s - 602.53s | to be more interdisciplinary than I've ever been, 602.53s - 604.57s | to be more cross-disciplinary than ever. 604.57s - 609.33s | So I can proudly tell you all that since spring of 2021, 609.33s - 613.81s | we have taught 44 courses fully in virtual reality. 613.81s - 616.89s | We have over 550 headsets at Morehouse College 616.89s - 618.25s | in Atlanta, Georgia. 618.25s - 620.29s | It's a historically Black college and university 620.29s - 622.73s | that educates young Black men to be 622.73s - 626.01s | leaders in their community. 626.01s - 628.33s | So I am so excited. 628.33s - 633.01s | We have seen outcomes of up to 11.9% increase 633.01s - 634.53s | in student achievement. 634.53s - 637.61s | We also saw that our students came to class more. 637.61s - 642.01s | And we increased attendance rates by 10 percentage points. 642.01s - 644.17s | Students come to class more when 644.17s - 649.65s | they have access to technology that engages them. 649.65s - 652.41s | So we saw this. 652.41s - 655.97s | We've published it in peer-reviewed journals. 655.97s - 659.89s | And this is the next best step. 659.89s - 663.49s | The next step is to


chunk_text:
to be more cross-disciplinary than ever. 604.57s - 609.33s | So I can proudly tell you all that since spring of 2021, 609.33s - 613.81s | we have taught 44 courses fully in virtual reality. 613.81s - 616.89s | We have over 550 headsets at Morehouse College 616.89s - 618.25s | in Atlanta, Georgia. 618.25s - 620.29s | It's a historically Black college and university 620.29s - 622.73s | that educates young Black men to be 622.73s - 626.01s | leaders in their community. 626.01s - 628.33s | So I am so excited. 628.33s - 633.01s | We have seen outcomes of up to 11.9% increase 633.01s - 634.53s | in student achievement. 634.53s - 637.61s | We also saw that our students came to class more. 637.61s - 642.01s | And we increased attendance rates by 10 percentage points. 642.01s - 644.17s | Students come to class more when 644.17s - 649.65s | they have access to technology that engages them. 649.65s - 652.41s | So we saw this. 652.41s - 655.97s | We've published it in peer-reviewed journals. 655.97s - 659.89s | And this is the next best step. 659.89s - 663.49s | The next step is to increase the number of student interactions 663.49s - 665.73s | and engagement, the length of their interactions. 665.73s - 670.13s | And this is available on the Chrome browser, the AITTAs. 670.13s - 671.53s | They don't have to have a headset. 671.53s - 673.97s | We have 2,200 Morehouse students. 673.97s - 676.61s | And not everybody has a headset. 676.61s - 679.17s | Well, I'm doing my best to fundraise to get us headsets. 679.17s - 681.85s | But in the meanwhile, educational institutions 681.85s - 684.65s | have a friction point when it comes to the technology. 684.65s - 687.69s | And so putting it on a Chrome browser for interaction 687.69s - 691.37s | and to help allows teachers to, one, be able to create easily 691.37s - 696.17s | and also students to be able to access content easily too. 696.17s - 698.77s | But what we're looking for is, are we 698.77s - 701.53s | increasing the number of engagements or interactions 701.53s - 702.89s | that students are having? 702.89s - 705.81s | Are they maintaining these interactions? 705.81s - 709.01s | And then, are their grades actually increasing? 709.01s - 713.13s |


chunk_text:
increase the number of student interactions 663.49s - 665.73s | and engagement, the length of their interactions. 665.73s - 670.13s | And this is available on the Chrome browser, the AITTAs. 670.13s - 671.53s | They don't have to have a headset. 671.53s - 673.97s | We have 2,200 Morehouse students. 673.97s - 676.61s | And not everybody has a headset. 676.61s - 679.17s | Well, I'm doing my best to fundraise to get us headsets. 679.17s - 681.85s | But in the meanwhile, educational institutions 681.85s - 684.65s | have a friction point when it comes to the technology. 684.65s - 687.69s | And so putting it on a Chrome browser for interaction 687.69s - 691.37s | and to help allows teachers to, one, be able to create easily 691.37s - 696.17s | and also students to be able to access content easily too. 696.17s - 698.77s | But what we're looking for is, are we 698.77s - 701.53s | increasing the number of engagements or interactions 701.53s - 702.89s | that students are having? 702.89s - 705.81s | Are they maintaining these interactions? 705.81s - 709.01s | And then, are their grades actually increasing? 709.01s - 713.13s | And do they see a future in their careers 713.13s - 715.25s | that can be pegged out using this technology? 715.25s - 717.25s | Because all career pathways now are 717.25s - 719.13s | going to have to be tech-adjacent, 719.13s - 720.45s | every single one of them. 720.45s - 723.57s | There is no such thing as an English professor that 723.57s - 725.37s | does not use technology. 725.37s - 731.13s | There is no such thing now as a journalist or a humanities 731.13s - 734.89s | professor or anybody in any other field 734.89s - 735.93s | that doesn't use tech. 735.93s - 737.65s | That ship has sailed. 737.65s - 740.01s | But I think everyone in this room knows that. 740.01s - 743.73s | So I'm going to bust some myths real quick about AI and AITA. 743.73s - 746.21s | So some of the things that you all said, 746.21s - 748.13s | AI will replace teachers. 748.13s - 750.25s | No, it will augment the classroom 750.25s - 752.13s | because we don't really have capacity. 752.13s - 756.69s | And imagine having to serve even all of you all


chunk_text:
And do they see a future in their careers 713.13s - 715.25s | that can be pegged out using this technology? 715.25s - 717.25s | Because all career pathways now are 717.25s - 719.13s | going to have to be tech-adjacent, 719.13s - 720.45s | every single one of them. 720.45s - 723.57s | There is no such thing as an English professor that 723.57s - 725.37s | does not use technology. 725.37s - 731.13s | There is no such thing now as a journalist or a humanities 731.13s - 734.89s | professor or anybody in any other field 734.89s - 735.93s | that doesn't use tech. 735.93s - 737.65s | That ship has sailed. 737.65s - 740.01s | But I think everyone in this room knows that. 740.01s - 743.73s | So I'm going to bust some myths real quick about AI and AITA. 743.73s - 746.21s | So some of the things that you all said, 746.21s - 748.13s | AI will replace teachers. 748.13s - 750.25s | No, it will augment the classroom 750.25s - 752.13s | because we don't really have capacity. 752.13s - 756.69s | And imagine having to serve even all of you all in this room 756.69s - 759.45s | and all of the questions that you all may have had 759.45s - 762.13s | individually and give you all a personalized experience. 762.13s - 764.65s | And I have to do that in 50 minutes. 764.65s - 766.81s | And I have to teach you complex information. 766.81s - 771.21s | And I only get to see you two to three times a week. 771.21s - 774.85s | That's a huge responsibility and task to put on just the teacher. 774.85s - 777.57s | And while I know that I am gifted, 777.57s - 780.69s | if I could put it in their heads, I would do it. 780.69s - 785.45s | But I need something for students to be able to access 785.45s - 788.53s | when it's 3 a.m. and they're studying, 788.53s - 792.21s | Dr. Morris' cell phone is on silent, 792.21s - 795.57s | I'm getting ready so I can serve them in the morning. 795.57s - 797.81s | But you know how it is in college. 797.81s - 801.25s | They went out before they studied and they got a test in the morning. 801.25s -


chunk_text:
in this room 756.69s - 759.45s | and all of the questions that you all may have had 759.45s - 762.13s | individually and give you all a personalized experience. 762.13s - 764.65s | And I have to do that in 50 minutes. 764.65s - 766.81s | And I have to teach you complex information. 766.81s - 771.21s | And I only get to see you two to three times a week. 771.21s - 774.85s | That's a huge responsibility and task to put on just the teacher. 774.85s - 777.57s | And while I know that I am gifted, 777.57s - 780.69s | if I could put it in their heads, I would do it. 780.69s - 785.45s | But I need something for students to be able to access 785.45s - 788.53s | when it's 3 a.m. and they're studying, 788.53s - 792.21s | Dr. Morris' cell phone is on silent, 792.21s - 795.57s | I'm getting ready so I can serve them in the morning. 795.57s - 797.81s | But you know how it is in college. 797.81s - 801.25s | They went out before they studied and they got a test in the morning. 801.25s - 803.29s | So it's 3 a.m. 803.29s - 806.41s | And the question is, 806.41s - 808.97s | I don't know how to find math number, 808.97s - 812.45s | but Dr. Morris has a lesson on math number 812.45s - 817.93s | straight from the content directly to the key standards that we want to hit. 817.93s - 821.49s | I'm going to go run that playback and then I'm going to ask it the question. 821.49s - 824.25s | And now I ain't got to go filter through Google. 824.25s - 826.05s | I ain't got to go filtering through. 826.05s - 828.73s | I ain't got to go figuring out, oh, Lord, like what? 828.73s - 832.41s | I can go directly to a resource and use it. 832.41s - 836.69s | And I didn't have to log into 3460 interfaces to get there. 837.45s - 840.45s | So we're not replacing teachers, 840.45s - 843.45s | we're increasing the capacity of teachers for 843.45s - 846.33s | students who need more personalized instruction. 846.33s - 849.33s | We're also implementing AI because, 849.33s - 855.77s | oh, it says implementing AI requires extensive technical expertise. 855.97s


chunk_text:
803.29s | So it's 3 a.m. 803.29s - 806.41s | And the question is, 806.41s - 808.97s | I don't know how to find math number, 808.97s - 812.45s | but Dr. Morris has a lesson on math number 812.45s - 817.93s | straight from the content directly to the key standards that we want to hit. 817.93s - 821.49s | I'm going to go run that playback and then I'm going to ask it the question. 821.49s - 824.25s | And now I ain't got to go filter through Google. 824.25s - 826.05s | I ain't got to go filtering through. 826.05s - 828.73s | I ain't got to go figuring out, oh, Lord, like what? 828.73s - 832.41s | I can go directly to a resource and use it. 832.41s - 836.69s | And I didn't have to log into 3460 interfaces to get there. 837.45s - 840.45s | So we're not replacing teachers, 840.45s - 843.45s | we're increasing the capacity of teachers for 843.45s - 846.33s | students who need more personalized instruction. 846.33s - 849.33s | We're also implementing AI because, 849.33s - 855.77s | oh, it says implementing AI requires extensive technical expertise. 855.97s - 858.57s | Not so much. 858.57s - 861.81s | What it does require is grit. 861.81s - 867.33s | So the teacher dashboard is as user-friendly as any social media platform. 867.49s - 872.61s | But people still think teachers have to code. 872.61s - 874.85s | I'm not asking you to take on another task. 874.85s - 876.53s | I'm not asking you to pick up another craft. 876.53s - 881.81s | I'm asking you to just know how to help students. 881.81s - 885.81s | So AI is detrimental to students' learning and encourages cheating. 885.81s - 887.97s | Somebody over here said that, right? 887.97s - 891.09s | Well, you teach students how to use it appropriately. 891.09s - 894.49s | You teach them how to use AI appropriately by introducing 894.53s - 898.65s | it to them and showing them the right workflow. 898.65s - 901.69s | So that is how you do it. 901.69s - 904.01s | AI-driven education is for older students. 904.01s - 907.13s | Lifelong learning is very necessary. 907.13s - 911.25s | But what we really need to do is integrate this education at the smallest, 911.25s - 914.25s |


chunk_text:
- 858.57s | Not so much. 858.57s - 861.81s | What it does require is grit. 861.81s - 867.33s | So the teacher dashboard is as user-friendly as any social media platform. 867.49s - 872.61s | But people still think teachers have to code. 872.61s - 874.85s | I'm not asking you to take on another task. 874.85s - 876.53s | I'm not asking you to pick up another craft. 876.53s - 881.81s | I'm asking you to just know how to help students. 881.81s - 885.81s | So AI is detrimental to students' learning and encourages cheating. 885.81s - 887.97s | Somebody over here said that, right? 887.97s - 891.09s | Well, you teach students how to use it appropriately. 891.09s - 894.49s | You teach them how to use AI appropriately by introducing 894.53s - 898.65s | it to them and showing them the right workflow. 898.65s - 901.69s | So that is how you do it. 901.69s - 904.01s | AI-driven education is for older students. 904.01s - 907.13s | Lifelong learning is very necessary. 907.13s - 911.25s | But what we really need to do is integrate this education at the smallest, 911.25s - 914.25s | at the youngest levels, with Generation Alpha, right? 914.25s - 917.69s | We need these young babies to really understand the evolution 917.69s - 919.81s | and take part in the creation. 919.81s - 922.41s | They have wonderful, amazing ideas. 922.45s - 928.09s | We participated in XPRIZE Connect over this past spring with my college students, 928.09s - 930.25s | but it's usually for our high school students. 930.25s - 934.37s | And these students are just fabulous at coming up and constructing ideas. 934.37s - 938.93s | So when you integrate it early, you can demystify the technology. 938.93s - 941.57s | AI in schools compromises privacy and security. 941.57s - 944.13s | And I know that is a huge thing for people. 944.13s - 950.09s | But the platform that we use, even though it does access AI, 950.09s - 953.85s | open AI, we have it carted off and their parameters set 953.85s - 956.81s | so that our information does not flow back to them. 956.81s - 959.29s | So you all understand that. 959.29s - 961.73s | But in this digital age, we have taken all precautions 961.73s - 963.89s | to make


chunk_text:
at the youngest levels, with Generation Alpha, right? 914.25s - 917.69s | We need these young babies to really understand the evolution 917.69s - 919.81s | and take part in the creation. 919.81s - 922.41s | They have wonderful, amazing ideas. 922.45s - 928.09s | We participated in XPRIZE Connect over this past spring with my college students, 928.09s - 930.25s | but it's usually for our high school students. 930.25s - 934.37s | And these students are just fabulous at coming up and constructing ideas. 934.37s - 938.93s | So when you integrate it early, you can demystify the technology. 938.93s - 941.57s | AI in schools compromises privacy and security. 941.57s - 944.13s | And I know that is a huge thing for people. 944.13s - 950.09s | But the platform that we use, even though it does access AI, 950.09s - 953.85s | open AI, we have it carted off and their parameters set 953.85s - 956.81s | so that our information does not flow back to them. 956.81s - 959.29s | So you all understand that. 959.29s - 961.73s | But in this digital age, we have taken all precautions 961.73s - 963.89s | to make sure that privacy and security are paramount. 963.89s - 968.49s | We have the same platform as any learning management system would. 968.49s - 970.69s | So students have used these learning management systems, 970.69s - 975.65s | and they follow FERPA laws, federal laws, to protect students' privacy and security. 975.65s - 977.41s | And we've done it with our metaversity. 977.41s - 983.85s | So I'm pretty confident that we can do it and do our best job first in this pilot this fall. 983.85s - 986.57s | And so these are the hypothesized outcomes. 986.57s - 991.17s | We hope to improve academic performance, obviously, to engage students more 991.17s - 994.81s | and to create higher levels of motivation for them. 994.81s - 996.13s | Better retention rates. 996.13s - 1000.73s | So we have a huge problem with stopouts in terms of education. 1000.73s - 1003.41s | For young black males, they run out of money, they run out of funding, 1003.41s - 1005.09s | they run out of time, whatever. 1005.09s - 1008.09s | They have other pressing issues that happen in their lives. 1008.09s - 1009.57s | And life happens to all of


chunk_text:
sure that privacy and security are paramount. 963.89s - 968.49s | We have the same platform as any learning management system would. 968.49s - 970.69s | So students have used these learning management systems, 970.69s - 975.65s | and they follow FERPA laws, federal laws, to protect students' privacy and security. 975.65s - 977.41s | And we've done it with our metaversity. 977.41s - 983.85s | So I'm pretty confident that we can do it and do our best job first in this pilot this fall. 983.85s - 986.57s | And so these are the hypothesized outcomes. 986.57s - 991.17s | We hope to improve academic performance, obviously, to engage students more 991.17s - 994.81s | and to create higher levels of motivation for them. 994.81s - 996.13s | Better retention rates. 996.13s - 1000.73s | So we have a huge problem with stopouts in terms of education. 1000.73s - 1003.41s | For young black males, they run out of money, they run out of funding, 1003.41s - 1005.09s | they run out of time, whatever. 1005.09s - 1008.09s | They have other pressing issues that happen in their lives. 1008.09s - 1009.57s | And life happens to all of us, right? 1009.57s - 1012.05s | So that's what's happening. 1012.05s - 1013.33s | And so students stop out. 1013.33s - 1017.13s | And so we want to make sure that we are giving them continuous support 1017.13s - 1020.33s | and personalized learning experience that can be accessed anywhere. 1020.33s - 1024.53s | And then enhance their skill development because they need these four Cs. 1024.53s - 1029.05s | They need collaboration, creativity, critical thinking skills, and communication. 1029.05s - 1032.81s | They need these interactions, and they need them with AI tools. 1032.85s - 1038.21s | So the Department of Education will be using them to train pre-service teachers 1038.21s - 1043.61s | at Morehouse, the History Department, Sociology, our Student Success Center in areas 1043.61s - 1045.93s | of math, physics, and foreign language. 1045.93s - 1050.01s | And we will be doing peer-to-peer tutoring support and study group support as well. 1050.01s - 1054.97s | I'm also training 1,000 educators and 1,000 student creators to use our tool 1054.97s - 1056.41s | and create their own lessons. 1056.41s - 1058.41s | And it doesn't matter what it's about. 1058.41s - 1060.85s | And it's going to


chunk_text:
us, right? 1009.57s - 1012.05s | So that's what's happening. 1012.05s - 1013.33s | And so students stop out. 1013.33s - 1017.13s | And so we want to make sure that we are giving them continuous support 1017.13s - 1020.33s | and personalized learning experience that can be accessed anywhere. 1020.33s - 1024.53s | And then enhance their skill development because they need these four Cs. 1024.53s - 1029.05s | They need collaboration, creativity, critical thinking skills, and communication. 1029.05s - 1032.81s | They need these interactions, and they need them with AI tools. 1032.85s - 1038.21s | So the Department of Education will be using them to train pre-service teachers 1038.21s - 1043.61s | at Morehouse, the History Department, Sociology, our Student Success Center in areas 1043.61s - 1045.93s | of math, physics, and foreign language. 1045.93s - 1050.01s | And we will be doing peer-to-peer tutoring support and study group support as well. 1050.01s - 1054.97s | I'm also training 1,000 educators and 1,000 student creators to use our tool 1054.97s - 1056.41s | and create their own lessons. 1056.41s - 1058.41s | And it doesn't matter what it's about. 1058.41s - 1060.85s | And it's going to be like a teachers pay teachers model for them. 1060.85s - 1065.13s | So they'll be incentivized to create in this space. 1065.13s - 1069.05s | But what we really want to know is, will students ask more questions? 1069.05s - 1074.57s | You know, there's a student that sits in the classroom for an entire year. 1074.57s - 1076.69s | And they'll never ask a question. 1076.69s - 1080.73s | And they'll never ask a question because they feel like their question doesn't matter. 1080.73s - 1084.41s | That the person right next to them isn't thinking the exact same thing 1084.41s - 1085.65s | that they are thinking. 1085.65s - 1087.01s | And that's not true. 1087.01s - 1091.01s | But they will ask it to these AITAs because they can ask it anything. 1091.01s - 1095.21s | And it gives them that privacy, safety, and security to ask those questions 1095.21s - 1100.93s | that will then get them back to the answer that they need and close those learning gaps. 1100.93s - 1106.69s | So my predicted effect is that student engagement will definitely increase. 1106.69s - 1110.81s | And students don't have to come to


chunk_text:
be like a teachers pay teachers model for them. 1060.85s - 1065.13s | So they'll be incentivized to create in this space. 1065.13s - 1069.05s | But what we really want to know is, will students ask more questions? 1069.05s - 1074.57s | You know, there's a student that sits in the classroom for an entire year. 1074.57s - 1076.69s | And they'll never ask a question. 1076.69s - 1080.73s | And they'll never ask a question because they feel like their question doesn't matter. 1080.73s - 1084.41s | That the person right next to them isn't thinking the exact same thing 1084.41s - 1085.65s | that they are thinking. 1085.65s - 1087.01s | And that's not true. 1087.01s - 1091.01s | But they will ask it to these AITAs because they can ask it anything. 1091.01s - 1095.21s | And it gives them that privacy, safety, and security to ask those questions 1095.21s - 1100.93s | that will then get them back to the answer that they need and close those learning gaps. 1100.93s - 1106.69s | So my predicted effect is that student engagement will definitely increase. 1106.69s - 1110.81s | And students don't have to come to the professor to be retaught a lesson 1110.81s - 1114.01s | if they miss for whatever reason. 1114.41s - 1116.49s | I have a whole lot of peer-reviewed journals. 1116.49s - 1119.53s | And this is for the people that just really want peer-reviewed journals. 1119.53s - 1122.05s | Find me and I'll send it to you. 1122.05s - 1123.29s | But I thank you. 1123.29s - 1124.57s | My image won't pop up. 1124.57s - 1125.73s | I don't know why. 1125.73s - 1128.93s | Oh, the girl with the connection left. 1128.93s - 1132.37s | I was connected to somebody's Wi-Fi and they walked out. 1132.37s - 1134.01s | That's hilarious. 1134.01s - 1137.57s | So you can stay connected with me, Dr. Morris. 1137.57s - 1140.53s | I guess my QR code will not show up there. 1140.53s - 1142.49s | But that's fine. 1142.49s - 1145.41s | What I want to show you, though, let me see if I can. 1145.41s - 1147.45s | I don't have a Wi-Fi connection. 1147.45s - 1148.93s | That is hilarious. 1148.93s - 1150.01s | I just realized that. 1150.01s - 1152.73s | At least I got to the end


chunk_text:
the professor to be retaught a lesson 1110.81s - 1114.01s | if they miss for whatever reason. 1114.41s - 1116.49s | I have a whole lot of peer-reviewed journals. 1116.49s - 1119.53s | And this is for the people that just really want peer-reviewed journals. 1119.53s - 1122.05s | Find me and I'll send it to you. 1122.05s - 1123.29s | But I thank you. 1123.29s - 1124.57s | My image won't pop up. 1124.57s - 1125.73s | I don't know why. 1125.73s - 1128.93s | Oh, the girl with the connection left. 1128.93s - 1132.37s | I was connected to somebody's Wi-Fi and they walked out. 1132.37s - 1134.01s | That's hilarious. 1134.01s - 1137.57s | So you can stay connected with me, Dr. Morris. 1137.57s - 1140.53s | I guess my QR code will not show up there. 1140.53s - 1142.49s | But that's fine. 1142.49s - 1145.41s | What I want to show you, though, let me see if I can. 1145.41s - 1147.45s | I don't have a Wi-Fi connection. 1147.45s - 1148.93s | That is hilarious. 1148.93s - 1150.01s | I just realized that. 1150.01s - 1152.73s | At least I got to the end of my talk. 1152.73s - 1156.01s | So you can stay connected with me at UniteTheMetaverse.com. 1156.01s - 1158.97s | I had a real cute picture to show y'all to say thank you. 1158.97s - 1161.73s | I was standing like a superhero. 1161.73s - 1167.77s | So anyway, I really wish that you all could see the demo. 1167.77s - 1171.85s | But for whatever reason, I don't have Wi-Fi connection 1171.85s - 1175.09s | now in the middle of the talk. 1175.09s - 1178.53s | So thank you so much for your attentiveness. 1178.53s - 1181.13s | And I will leave more room for questions 1181.13s - 1183.49s | if anybody wants to ask me any questions. 1183.49s - 1186.73s | But you can find me at UniteTheMetaverse.com. 1186.73s - 1189.97s | And I am Dr. Messina Morris or Dr. Ma, 1189.97s - 1192.33s | motor of minds, first metaversity director 1192.33s - 1196.57s | in the world, first to introduce these type of spatial 3D AI 1196.57s - 1199.97s | customizable TAs, happy to do it, 1199.97s - 1204.01s | working in conjunction with multiple partners in tech 1204.01s - 1206.57s | and EdTech partners, Victory XR


chunk_text:
of my talk. 1152.73s - 1156.01s | So you can stay connected with me at UniteTheMetaverse.com. 1156.01s - 1158.97s | I had a real cute picture to show y'all to say thank you. 1158.97s - 1161.73s | I was standing like a superhero. 1161.73s - 1167.77s | So anyway, I really wish that you all could see the demo. 1167.77s - 1171.85s | But for whatever reason, I don't have Wi-Fi connection 1171.85s - 1175.09s | now in the middle of the talk. 1175.09s - 1178.53s | So thank you so much for your attentiveness. 1178.53s - 1181.13s | And I will leave more room for questions 1181.13s - 1183.49s | if anybody wants to ask me any questions. 1183.49s - 1186.73s | But you can find me at UniteTheMetaverse.com. 1186.73s - 1189.97s | And I am Dr. Messina Morris or Dr. Ma, 1189.97s - 1192.33s | motor of minds, first metaversity director 1192.33s - 1196.57s | in the world, first to introduce these type of spatial 3D AI 1196.57s - 1199.97s | customizable TAs, happy to do it, 1199.97s - 1204.01s | working in conjunction with multiple partners in tech 1204.01s - 1206.57s | and EdTech partners, Victory XR to do it, 1206.57s - 1207.73s | and Morehouse College. 1207.73s - 1213.27s | So thank you. 1213.27s - 1214.03s | Any questions? 1214.03s - 1215.19s | Everybody raise your hand. 1215.19s - 1218.43s | There's no dumb questions here. 1218.43s - 1228.15s | Yes. 1228.15s - 1235.25s | Yes. 1235.25s - 1240.17s | OK, so network, ability to handle it on the network, 1240.17s - 1243.58s | is that what you asked me? 1243.58s - 1245.90s | Oh, IT support, just IT support. 1245.98s - 1248.50s | OK, so I'm my IT support. 1248.50s - 1249.90s | It is challenging. 1249.90s - 1253.10s | The blessing in this is that I'm married to a network design 1253.10s - 1255.10s | engineer. 1255.10s - 1258.86s | So I kind of had a cheat code with me. 1258.86s - 1263.82s | He's my husband, and I would be like, what do we do? 1263.82s - 1270.54s | But I do say this, you always have an ally in a space. 1270.54s - 1272.66s | I always walk over to IT because I 1272.66s - 1275.06s | did get one person to really help me and help me figure out 1275.10s -


chunk_text:
to do it, 1206.57s - 1207.73s | and Morehouse College. 1207.73s - 1213.27s | So thank you. 1213.27s - 1214.03s | Any questions? 1214.03s - 1215.19s | Everybody raise your hand. 1215.19s - 1218.43s | There's no dumb questions here. 1218.43s - 1228.15s | Yes. 1228.15s - 1235.25s | Yes. 1235.25s - 1240.17s | OK, so network, ability to handle it on the network, 1240.17s - 1243.58s | is that what you asked me? 1243.58s - 1245.90s | Oh, IT support, just IT support. 1245.98s - 1248.50s | OK, so I'm my IT support. 1248.50s - 1249.90s | It is challenging. 1249.90s - 1253.10s | The blessing in this is that I'm married to a network design 1253.10s - 1255.10s | engineer. 1255.10s - 1258.86s | So I kind of had a cheat code with me. 1258.86s - 1263.82s | He's my husband, and I would be like, what do we do? 1263.82s - 1270.54s | But I do say this, you always have an ally in a space. 1270.54s - 1272.66s | I always walk over to IT because I 1272.66s - 1275.06s | did get one person to really help me and help me figure out 1275.10s - 1277.10s | the network and help me figure out the firewalls 1277.10s - 1278.58s | and help me figure out everything. 1278.58s - 1281.22s | And some institutions like medical schools, 1281.22s - 1283.98s | graduate schools that have information 1283.98s - 1286.90s | that they keep in databases definitely 1286.90s - 1290.38s | have to have a separate network for connecting for this. 1290.38s - 1292.94s | So we got another separate connection 1292.94s - 1297.26s | for network devices just so that students can get on devices. 1297.26s - 1298.86s | I also have a partnership with T-Mobile. 1298.86s - 1300.74s | So I got a lot of hot spots, and I 1300.74s - 1303.06s | won their unconventional innovation of the year award. 1303.06s - 1308.82s | So that too, allies. 1308.82s - 1311.02s | You're welcome. 1311.02s - 1312.02s | Anybody else? 1312.02s - 1317.67s | There's no dumb question here. 1317.67s - 1318.51s | Yes. 1318.51s - 1361.52s | All right, so his question is, when should you ask AI for? 1361.52s - 1364.08s | When should you ask AI a question, 1364.08s - 1366.84s | or when should you ask a teacher the question?


chunk_text:
1277.10s | the network and help me figure out the firewalls 1277.10s - 1278.58s | and help me figure out everything. 1278.58s - 1281.22s | And some institutions like medical schools, 1281.22s - 1283.98s | graduate schools that have information 1283.98s - 1286.90s | that they keep in databases definitely 1286.90s - 1290.38s | have to have a separate network for connecting for this. 1290.38s - 1292.94s | So we got another separate connection 1292.94s - 1297.26s | for network devices just so that students can get on devices. 1297.26s - 1298.86s | I also have a partnership with T-Mobile. 1298.86s - 1300.74s | So I got a lot of hot spots, and I 1300.74s - 1303.06s | won their unconventional innovation of the year award. 1303.06s - 1308.82s | So that too, allies. 1308.82s - 1311.02s | You're welcome. 1311.02s - 1312.02s | Anybody else? 1312.02s - 1317.67s | There's no dumb question here. 1317.67s - 1318.51s | Yes. 1318.51s - 1361.52s | All right, so his question is, when should you ask AI for? 1361.52s - 1364.08s | When should you ask AI a question, 1364.08s - 1366.84s | or when should you ask a teacher the question? 1366.84s - 1371.80s | I think that you should always, always ask your instructor. 1371.80s - 1373.60s | But let me tell you something, human beings 1373.60s - 1375.08s | don't know everything. 1375.08s - 1377.84s | And what we're going to do is go do the same thing 1377.84s - 1381.48s | that you're going to do, but with more trained expert eyes. 1381.48s - 1383.80s | I'm going to go comb through all of the resources 1383.80s - 1385.60s | that I know to comb through, and I'm 1385.60s - 1387.28s | going to go reteach myself things 1387.28s - 1388.96s | that I forgot long ago. 1388.96s - 1392.12s | And then I'm going to come back, and I'm going to teach you. 1392.12s - 1393.56s | That's how it goes. 1393.56s - 1395.84s | So when do you ask your teacher a question? 1395.84s - 1398.64s | I think that you should always go to your instructor first. 1398.64s - 1402.36s | But if you're in a bind, and you don't have the answers, 1402.40s - 1406.36s | and you need to access information, use your resources. 1406.36s - 1407.60s | This is a resource. 1407.60s


chunk_text:
1366.84s - 1371.80s | I think that you should always, always ask your instructor. 1371.80s - 1373.60s | But let me tell you something, human beings 1373.60s - 1375.08s | don't know everything. 1375.08s - 1377.84s | And what we're going to do is go do the same thing 1377.84s - 1381.48s | that you're going to do, but with more trained expert eyes. 1381.48s - 1383.80s | I'm going to go comb through all of the resources 1383.80s - 1385.60s | that I know to comb through, and I'm 1385.60s - 1387.28s | going to go reteach myself things 1387.28s - 1388.96s | that I forgot long ago. 1388.96s - 1392.12s | And then I'm going to come back, and I'm going to teach you. 1392.12s - 1393.56s | That's how it goes. 1393.56s - 1395.84s | So when do you ask your teacher a question? 1395.84s - 1398.64s | I think that you should always go to your instructor first. 1398.64s - 1402.36s | But if you're in a bind, and you don't have the answers, 1402.40s - 1406.36s | and you need to access information, use your resources. 1406.36s - 1407.60s | This is a resource. 1407.60s - 1409.16s | So ask it any question. 1409.16s - 1410.68s | Ask it what to wear for class. 1410.68s - 1413.24s | I don't care what you ask it, but ask it questions 1413.24s - 1415.84s | because that's what it's there for. 1415.84s - 1419.88s | And you will learn how to close your own learning gaps 1419.88s - 1423.28s | and ask relevant questions to get you to what answer 1423.28s - 1424.92s | you need to understand. 1424.92s - 1427.08s | And that's what we're trying to measure, 1427.08s - 1432.24s | is do students begin to ask questions also more effectively? 1432.24s - 1435.16s | Because they're asking more questions. 1435.16s - 1436.56s | They're not just asking. 1436.56s - 1438.24s | There's a difference between a question 1438.24s - 1440.72s | that gets you the answer that you're looking for 1440.72s - 1442.36s | and a question that doesn't. 1442.36s - 1444.48s | So thank you so much. 1444.48s - 1446.52s | I appreciate that. 1446.52s - 1449.64s | Thank you for your time and for listening so attentively. 1449.64s - 1450.88s | All of y'all get a gold star. 1450.88s - 1452.68s |


chunk_text:
- 1409.16s | So ask it any question. 1409.16s - 1410.68s | Ask it what to wear for class. 1410.68s - 1413.24s | I don't care what you ask it, but ask it questions 1413.24s - 1415.84s | because that's what it's there for. 1415.84s - 1419.88s | And you will learn how to close your own learning gaps 1419.88s - 1423.28s | and ask relevant questions to get you to what answer 1423.28s - 1424.92s | you need to understand. 1424.92s - 1427.08s | And that's what we're trying to measure, 1427.08s - 1432.24s | is do students begin to ask questions also more effectively? 1432.24s - 1435.16s | Because they're asking more questions. 1435.16s - 1436.56s | They're not just asking. 1436.56s - 1438.24s | There's a difference between a question 1438.24s - 1440.72s | that gets you the answer that you're looking for 1440.72s - 1442.36s | and a question that doesn't. 1442.36s - 1444.48s | So thank you so much. 1444.48s - 1446.52s | I appreciate that. 1446.52s - 1449.64s | Thank you for your time and for listening so attentively. 1449.64s - 1450.88s | All of y'all get a gold star. 1450.88s - 1452.68s | I'm going to come back to you in the back 1452.68s - 1455.08s | because they've given me the red flag. 1455.08s - 1456.44s | All right, take care. 1456.44s - 1459.48s | Find me at UniteTheMurderVerse.com.


chunk_text:
I'm going to come back to you in the back 1452.68s - 1455.08s | because they've given me the red flag. 1455.08s - 1456.44s | All right, take care. 1456.44s - 1459.48s | Find me at UniteTheMurderVerse.com.


chunk_text:
{ "webpage_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wUsM0Mlenc", "title": "DEF CON 32 - Reverse engineering and hacking Ecovacs robots - Dennis Giese, Braelynn Hacker", "description": "Were you ever wondering why a vacuum robot or a smart air purifier needs multiple cameras and microphones? How secure are these devices? Can the devices be used to potentially spy on you?\n\nFor the past 5 years we have been presenting ways to hack and root vacuum robots at various events like the c3 or the DEFCON. In all these cases it covered vacuum robots by Roborock, Dreame, Xiaomi and some smaller companies. However, did we ever take a look at other vendors and maybe some new interesting device classes? In this talk we do exactly that, and will take a deep dive into Ecovacs robots! Ecovacs is the current market leader for smart home robots and recently expanded in other areas of home robotics.\n\nYou will be surprised how many worrisome things we found: broken crypto, missing TLS certificate verification, honor-system based ACLs, lots of RCEs, broken factory resets and unauthorized live camera access.\n\nWe will discuss our and other researchers experience with reporting bugs to the company and why one cannot trust third party certification agencies. In regard to trust, we will also address why you need to be careful with the choice of your spouse or flatmates.\n\nCome with us on a journey of having fun hacking interesting devices while exploring bad oversights, real problems and the ignorance of the manufacturer. Learn what ways there are to root these devices and to use them in a privacy-preserving way.", "channel_url": "https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6Om9kAkl32dWlDSNlDS9Iw", "duration": 2500, "channel": "DEFCONConference", "uploader": "DEFCONConference", "upload_date": "20241016" } 0.00s - 1.12s | This text was transcribed using whisper model: large-v2 Hello, everyone. 1.12s - 3.44s | Welcome to our talk about the reverse engineering 3.44s - 6.20s | of and hacking of Ecovacs robots. 6.20s - 8.24s | Thank you for being here at this time. 8.24s - 11.12s | I know it's kind of loud, but I hope we figured it out. 11.12s - 14.80s | So before we start, I would like to introduce ourselves. 14.80s - 16.60s | So first, I'm Dennis. 16.60s - 21.56s | I'm a security researcher or also a hardware hacker. 21.56s - 24.36s | And I'm primarily looking into wireless and embedded security 24.36s - 25.44s | and privacy. 25.44s - 27.32s | So I try to look at any device


chunk_text:
we will also address why you need to be careful with the choice of your spouse or flatmates.\n\nCome with us on a journey of having fun hacking interesting devices while exploring bad oversights, real problems and the ignorance of the manufacturer. Learn what ways there are to root these devices and to use them in a privacy-preserving way.", "channel_url": "https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6Om9kAkl32dWlDSNlDS9Iw", "duration": 2500, "channel": "DEFCONConference", "uploader": "DEFCONConference", "upload_date": "20241016" } 0.00s - 1.12s | This text was transcribed using whisper model: large-v2 Hello, everyone. 1.12s - 3.44s | Welcome to our talk about the reverse engineering 3.44s - 6.20s | of and hacking of Ecovacs robots. 6.20s - 8.24s | Thank you for being here at this time. 8.24s - 11.12s | I know it's kind of loud, but I hope we figured it out. 11.12s - 14.80s | So before we start, I would like to introduce ourselves. 14.80s - 16.60s | So first, I'm Dennis. 16.60s - 21.56s | I'm a security researcher or also a hardware hacker. 21.56s - 24.36s | And I'm primarily looking into wireless and embedded security 24.36s - 25.44s | and privacy. 25.44s - 27.32s | So I try to look at any device which 27.32s - 28.56s | kind of is interesting for me. 28.56s - 30.26s | So I try to reverse engineer everything, 30.26s - 32.48s | which is kind of basically around us. 32.48s - 36.56s | You might know me as a vacuum and IoT collector. 36.56s - 39.72s | So I have like probably over 600, 700 IoT devices 39.72s - 43.64s | and 60 or 70 vacuum robots to start counting. 43.64s - 47.24s | And my general goal is to get root access and root 47.24s - 48.84s | vacuum robots. 48.84s - 51.08s | I have also a website, which is called robotinfo.dev, 51.08s - 53.52s | where I try to kind of document what kind of hardware 53.52s - 55.48s | is in robots, what kind of software is running, 55.48s - 61.07s | what kind of methods exist for routing. 61.07s - 61.59s | Cool. 61.59s - 63.95s | Hi, I'm Braylin. 63.95s - 66.87s | I hack things for the Leviathan Security Group during the day. 66.87s - 69.01s | But this talk is entirely personal research 69.01s - 71.75s | and does not reflect their views. 71.75s - 74.35s | My


chunk_text:
which 27.32s - 28.56s | kind of is interesting for me. 28.56s - 30.26s | So I try to reverse engineer everything, 30.26s - 32.48s | which is kind of basically around us. 32.48s - 36.56s | You might know me as a vacuum and IoT collector. 36.56s - 39.72s | So I have like probably over 600, 700 IoT devices 39.72s - 43.64s | and 60 or 70 vacuum robots to start counting. 43.64s - 47.24s | And my general goal is to get root access and root 47.24s - 48.84s | vacuum robots. 48.84s - 51.08s | I have also a website, which is called robotinfo.dev, 51.08s - 53.52s | where I try to kind of document what kind of hardware 53.52s - 55.48s | is in robots, what kind of software is running, 55.48s - 61.07s | what kind of methods exist for routing. 61.07s - 61.59s | Cool. 61.59s - 63.95s | Hi, I'm Braylin. 63.95s - 66.87s | I hack things for the Leviathan Security Group during the day. 66.87s - 69.01s | But this talk is entirely personal research 69.01s - 71.75s | and does not reflect their views. 71.75s - 74.35s | My general focus has been application security and APIs 74.35s - 75.67s | for quite a few years now. 75.67s - 78.59s | But I started robot hacking during COVID. 78.59s - 81.09s | Just for fun, I took apart a broken robot vacuum 81.09s - 83.27s | and tried to hack it. 83.27s - 86.19s | So now I am hardware hacking for fun, 86.19s - 91.31s | mostly looking at robots, cameras, and smart locks. 91.31s - 94.03s | All right, so let's talk about the goals of this talk. 94.03s - 95.79s | So generally, what we try to do is 95.79s - 97.75s | that we want to give you some understanding 97.75s - 100.67s | about the security and privacy risks of IoT devices. 100.67s - 102.27s | We want to give you some overview on how 102.27s - 104.99s | we did vacuum robot hacking. 104.99s - 106.87s | We want to show you the vulnerabilities 106.87s - 108.27s | and how to find them. 108.27s - 110.23s | And typically, our general goal is 110.23s - 112.55s | to get somehow root access without to disassemble 112.55s - 114.27s | the device. 114.27s -


chunk_text:
general focus has been application security and APIs 74.35s - 75.67s | for quite a few years now. 75.67s - 78.59s | But I started robot hacking during COVID. 78.59s - 81.09s | Just for fun, I took apart a broken robot vacuum 81.09s - 83.27s | and tried to hack it. 83.27s - 86.19s | So now I am hardware hacking for fun, 86.19s - 91.31s | mostly looking at robots, cameras, and smart locks. 91.31s - 94.03s | All right, so let's talk about the goals of this talk. 94.03s - 95.79s | So generally, what we try to do is 95.79s - 97.75s | that we want to give you some understanding 97.75s - 100.67s | about the security and privacy risks of IoT devices. 100.67s - 102.27s | We want to give you some overview on how 102.27s - 104.99s | we did vacuum robot hacking. 104.99s - 106.87s | We want to show you the vulnerabilities 106.87s - 108.27s | and how to find them. 108.27s - 110.23s | And typically, our general goal is 110.23s - 112.55s | to get somehow root access without to disassemble 112.55s - 114.27s | the device. 114.27s - 116.63s | So there has been some past research on that. 116.63s - 119.43s | So if you hack this kind of niche products, 119.43s - 121.47s | the good thing is you can probably get every year 121.47s - 123.09s | or every two years a nice DEF CON talk. 123.09s - 125.79s | So basically, over the last five, six years, 125.79s - 130.83s | we kind of used the topic, and it keeps giving. 130.83s - 133.19s | So if you find your niche product, 133.19s - 134.51s | just go ahead with that. 134.51s - 136.27s | This will be very rewarding. 136.27s - 138.15s | Some disclaimers. 138.15s - 141.03s | So we don't claim that vendors are using the sensors 141.03s - 144.51s | to spy on you, but we could technically do that. 144.51s - 146.47s | The other thing which we do is that we primarily 146.47s - 149.57s | cover physical attacks or proximity attacks. 149.57s - 153.67s | So we don't necessarily attack devices through the cloud. 153.67s - 155.35s | One thing which we want to stress always 155.35s - 157.19s | is many vendors have problems. 157.19s -


chunk_text:
116.63s | So there has been some past research on that. 116.63s - 119.43s | So if you hack this kind of niche products, 119.43s - 121.47s | the good thing is you can probably get every year 121.47s - 123.09s | or every two years a nice DEF CON talk. 123.09s - 125.79s | So basically, over the last five, six years, 125.79s - 130.83s | we kind of used the topic, and it keeps giving. 130.83s - 133.19s | So if you find your niche product, 133.19s - 134.51s | just go ahead with that. 134.51s - 136.27s | This will be very rewarding. 136.27s - 138.15s | Some disclaimers. 138.15s - 141.03s | So we don't claim that vendors are using the sensors 141.03s - 144.51s | to spy on you, but we could technically do that. 144.51s - 146.47s | The other thing which we do is that we primarily 146.47s - 149.57s | cover physical attacks or proximity attacks. 149.57s - 153.67s | So we don't necessarily attack devices through the cloud. 153.67s - 155.35s | One thing which we want to stress always 155.35s - 157.19s | is many vendors have problems. 157.19s - 160.27s | And it's basically independent of origin, size, market share. 160.27s - 164.67s | But in this talk, we especially focus on Ecovacs. 164.67s - 166.19s | And all this research is basically 166.19s - 167.55s | part of private projects. 167.55s - 169.39s | So there's no sponsorships by companies. 169.39s - 171.67s | There's no organizations behind that. 171.67s - 173.43s | Any statements are our own opinion, 173.43s - 175.87s | and we are not representing anyone. 175.87s - 178.63s | So what kind of devices are we covering in this talk? 178.63s - 181.03s | So basically, we're covering Ecovacs robots, 181.03s - 184.11s | which you see on the left side, up to the X2. 184.11s - 186.43s | And we're also covering lawn mowing robots 186.43s - 189.67s | and the air purifiers, so the AirBot series. 189.67s - 193.03s | Technically, all the stuff which we do also applies to Yidi, 193.03s - 197.63s | because Yidi is basically a sub-brand of Ecovacs. 197.63s - 199.63s | And we only focus on devices which run Linux, 199.63s - 203.19s | so no dumb robots, only cool stuff. 203.19s - 204.39s | So


chunk_text:
160.27s | And it's basically independent of origin, size, market share. 160.27s - 164.67s | But in this talk, we especially focus on Ecovacs. 164.67s - 166.19s | And all this research is basically 166.19s - 167.55s | part of private projects. 167.55s - 169.39s | So there's no sponsorships by companies. 169.39s - 171.67s | There's no organizations behind that. 171.67s - 173.43s | Any statements are our own opinion, 173.43s - 175.87s | and we are not representing anyone. 175.87s - 178.63s | So what kind of devices are we covering in this talk? 178.63s - 181.03s | So basically, we're covering Ecovacs robots, 181.03s - 184.11s | which you see on the left side, up to the X2. 184.11s - 186.43s | And we're also covering lawn mowing robots 186.43s - 189.67s | and the air purifiers, so the AirBot series. 189.67s - 193.03s | Technically, all the stuff which we do also applies to Yidi, 193.03s - 197.63s | because Yidi is basically a sub-brand of Ecovacs. 197.63s - 199.63s | And we only focus on devices which run Linux, 199.63s - 203.19s | so no dumb robots, only cool stuff. 203.19s - 204.39s | So about the stock. 204.39s - 206.43s | Well, this is basically a result of five years 206.43s - 207.83s | of research and experiments. 207.83s - 210.71s | And technically, we are not the first ones or the only ones 210.71s - 212.83s | who do research on Ecovacs. 212.83s - 215.59s | The vendor knows about most of our findings. 215.59s - 217.91s | They tried to fix some of them, but failed. 217.91s - 220.95s | So they failed very sadly. 220.95s - 222.39s | And for other vulnerabilities, which 222.39s - 224.81s | are really, really, really bad, they, for whatever reason, 224.81s - 226.51s | have chosen to ignore them. 226.51s - 228.83s | Also here, I want to give a shout-out to Chris Anderson, 228.83s - 231.19s | who also found independently all this stuff. 231.19s - 233.15s | And we, at some point, connected to each other. 233.15s - 234.07s | We're like, oh, wait. 234.07s - 235.07s | We know about this vulnerability. 235.07s - 236.47s | We know about this vulnerability. 236.47s - 238.35s | So there's probably way more people out there 238.35s - 240.75s | who know about that stuff.


chunk_text:
about the stock. 204.39s - 206.43s | Well, this is basically a result of five years 206.43s - 207.83s | of research and experiments. 207.83s - 210.71s | And technically, we are not the first ones or the only ones 210.71s - 212.83s | who do research on Ecovacs. 212.83s - 215.59s | The vendor knows about most of our findings. 215.59s - 217.91s | They tried to fix some of them, but failed. 217.91s - 220.95s | So they failed very sadly. 220.95s - 222.39s | And for other vulnerabilities, which 222.39s - 224.81s | are really, really, really bad, they, for whatever reason, 224.81s - 226.51s | have chosen to ignore them. 226.51s - 228.83s | Also here, I want to give a shout-out to Chris Anderson, 228.83s - 231.19s | who also found independently all this stuff. 231.19s - 233.15s | And we, at some point, connected to each other. 233.15s - 234.07s | We're like, oh, wait. 234.07s - 235.07s | We know about this vulnerability. 235.07s - 236.47s | We know about this vulnerability. 236.47s - 238.35s | So there's probably way more people out there 238.35s - 240.75s | who know about that stuff. 240.75s - 242.95s | Typically, that kind of things are like a collaborative 242.95s - 243.45s | effort. 243.45s - 244.91s | So on the right, you see a picture 244.91s - 246.77s | where we were at a CCC camp in Germany, 246.77s - 249.75s | and we're just messing with the lawnmowing robots. 249.75s - 254.59s | Or we were hacking the cameras of the robots in India. 254.59s - 256.39s | So let's start with the motivation. 256.39s - 258.91s | Why do we want to root devices at all? 258.91s - 260.79s | Well, one of the things for us as hackers 260.79s - 262.67s | is, well, we want to play with cool hardware, 262.67s - 264.11s | because stuff is kind of cheap. 264.11s - 267.11s | The other thing is, we want to obviously stop the devices 267.11s - 270.07s | from constantly phoning home. 270.07s - 273.75s | A lot of people have a very good smart home automation system, 273.75s - 274.63s | like Home Assistant. 274.63s - 277.51s | And they want to use that instead of the cloud. 277.51s - 279.67s | Also, one thing which becomes more and


chunk_text:
240.75s - 242.95s | Typically, that kind of things are like a collaborative 242.95s - 243.45s | effort. 243.45s - 244.91s | So on the right, you see a picture 244.91s - 246.77s | where we were at a CCC camp in Germany, 246.77s - 249.75s | and we're just messing with the lawnmowing robots. 249.75s - 254.59s | Or we were hacking the cameras of the robots in India. 254.59s - 256.39s | So let's start with the motivation. 256.39s - 258.91s | Why do we want to root devices at all? 258.91s - 260.79s | Well, one of the things for us as hackers 260.79s - 262.67s | is, well, we want to play with cool hardware, 262.67s - 264.11s | because stuff is kind of cheap. 264.11s - 267.11s | The other thing is, we want to obviously stop the devices 267.11s - 270.07s | from constantly phoning home. 270.07s - 273.75s | A lot of people have a very good smart home automation system, 273.75s - 274.63s | like Home Assistant. 274.63s - 277.51s | And they want to use that instead of the cloud. 277.51s - 279.67s | Also, one thing which becomes more and more important 279.67s - 280.75s | is the rate to repair. 280.75s - 282.87s | So basically, if the device is broken, 282.87s - 284.59s | we want to figure out what the reason is. 284.59s - 288.75s | And it's easier to figure it out if you have root access. 288.75s - 290.99s | Also, we want to verify the privacy claims of vendors. 290.99s - 293.43s | Because vendors, they say a lot of things, 293.43s - 296.19s | but it's not necessarily true. 296.19s - 298.79s | So why don't we trust the companies? 298.79s - 300.59s | So one of the things with IoT devices 300.59s - 302.39s | is they are connected to your home network, 302.39s - 304.55s | and they have internet all the time. 304.55s - 306.79s | The communication to the cloud is typically encrypted, 306.79s - 309.79s | and you have no idea what they're actually sending out. 309.79s - 312.79s | From our own experience, we know that developing secure hardware 312.79s - 315.23s | and software is extremely difficult. 315.23s - 317.15s | And in the past, we caught vendors basically 317.15s - 319.39s | with some shady


chunk_text:
more important 279.67s - 280.75s | is the rate to repair. 280.75s - 282.87s | So basically, if the device is broken, 282.87s - 284.59s | we want to figure out what the reason is. 284.59s - 288.75s | And it's easier to figure it out if you have root access. 288.75s - 290.99s | Also, we want to verify the privacy claims of vendors. 290.99s - 293.43s | Because vendors, they say a lot of things, 293.43s - 296.19s | but it's not necessarily true. 296.19s - 298.79s | So why don't we trust the companies? 298.79s - 300.59s | So one of the things with IoT devices 300.59s - 302.39s | is they are connected to your home network, 302.39s - 304.55s | and they have internet all the time. 304.55s - 306.79s | The communication to the cloud is typically encrypted, 306.79s - 309.79s | and you have no idea what they're actually sending out. 309.79s - 312.79s | From our own experience, we know that developing secure hardware 312.79s - 315.23s | and software is extremely difficult. 315.23s - 317.15s | And in the past, we caught vendors basically 317.15s - 319.39s | with some shady behavior. 319.39s - 320.91s | The other thing is these devices, 320.91s - 322.51s | I mean, they not only have cameras, 322.51s - 325.23s | but nowadays, they more and more have microphones. 325.23s - 327.91s | And the question is, why do we need that? 327.91s - 329.55s | Generally, if you have cameras, well, 329.55s - 331.11s | there's some risk with that. 331.11s - 334.55s | And devices might store pictures indefinitely. 334.55s - 337.23s | And from our own research, we know that some of them 337.23s - 340.33s | do, both in the cloud and locally. 340.33s - 341.91s | And the other thing which we run into 341.91s - 345.23s | is if you buy used devices from eBay or Amazon, 345.23s - 347.39s | you don't know if the previous owner installed a root 347.39s - 347.99s | kit onto that. 347.99s - 350.87s | So as a new owner, you have no way to verify the software. 350.87s - 352.95s | And as a result, you might have a malicious device 352.95s - 355.07s | in your home which spies on you. 355.07s - 358.03s | So basically, root access is


chunk_text:
behavior. 319.39s - 320.91s | The other thing is these devices, 320.91s - 322.51s | I mean, they not only have cameras, 322.51s - 325.23s | but nowadays, they more and more have microphones. 325.23s - 327.91s | And the question is, why do we need that? 327.91s - 329.55s | Generally, if you have cameras, well, 329.55s - 331.11s | there's some risk with that. 331.11s - 334.55s | And devices might store pictures indefinitely. 334.55s - 337.23s | And from our own research, we know that some of them 337.23s - 340.33s | do, both in the cloud and locally. 340.33s - 341.91s | And the other thing which we run into 341.91s - 345.23s | is if you buy used devices from eBay or Amazon, 345.23s - 347.39s | you don't know if the previous owner installed a root 347.39s - 347.99s | kit onto that. 347.99s - 350.87s | So as a new owner, you have no way to verify the software. 350.87s - 352.95s | And as a result, you might have a malicious device 352.95s - 355.07s | in your home which spies on you. 355.07s - 358.03s | So basically, root access is more or less the only way 358.03s - 361.15s | to figure out that the device is clean. 361.15s - 364.27s | Speaking of vendors, we have this story around, I think, 364.27s - 366.27s | one and a half years ago, where basically iRobot 366.27s - 368.99s | got caught that they were making pictures of people 368.99s - 372.87s | and selling them to Venezuela from labeling them 372.87s - 374.07s | by gig workers. 374.07s - 375.75s | And the other thing is, well, this device 375.75s - 376.75s | contains a lot of data. 376.75s - 379.99s | So companies are very interested in collecting data 379.99s - 380.95s | about your homes. 380.95s - 384.03s | And one of the rumors was that Amazon was trying to buy iRobot 384.03s - 387.67s | not because of the great robots, but because of the data. 387.67s - 389.67s | One question which we will answer later, 389.67s - 392.59s | if you can rely on certifications, 392.59s - 394.59s | because all the devices which we have analyzed 394.59s - 397.07s | in the last two or three years have certifications, 397.07s - 399.43s | including


chunk_text:
more or less the only way 358.03s - 361.15s | to figure out that the device is clean. 361.15s - 364.27s | Speaking of vendors, we have this story around, I think, 364.27s - 366.27s | one and a half years ago, where basically iRobot 366.27s - 368.99s | got caught that they were making pictures of people 368.99s - 372.87s | and selling them to Venezuela from labeling them 372.87s - 374.07s | by gig workers. 374.07s - 375.75s | And the other thing is, well, this device 375.75s - 376.75s | contains a lot of data. 376.75s - 379.99s | So companies are very interested in collecting data 379.99s - 380.95s | about your homes. 380.95s - 384.03s | And one of the rumors was that Amazon was trying to buy iRobot 384.03s - 387.67s | not because of the great robots, but because of the data. 387.67s - 389.67s | One question which we will answer later, 389.67s - 392.59s | if you can rely on certifications, 392.59s - 394.59s | because all the devices which we have analyzed 394.59s - 397.07s | in the last two or three years have certifications, 397.07s - 399.43s | including EchoVax. 399.43s - 403.23s | So I want to give you a very brief overview of our hacking 403.23s - 404.47s | journey so far. 404.47s - 406.07s | And for me personally, everything 406.11s - 408.15s | started back in 2017. 408.15s - 411.31s | I was giving a talk at the CCC and at DEF CON. 411.31s - 413.77s | And this was a work together back then with Danny Vigema. 413.77s - 415.43s | And we targeted the Xiaomi vacuum robots, 415.43s - 417.27s | the first generation, and the Roborock. 417.27s - 420.03s | And the over-the-air update system was completely broken. 420.03s - 423.31s | So we were able to just push local firmware updates. 423.31s - 425.23s | Then it became a little bit more complicated. 425.23s - 427.23s | So the vendors kind of locked on things. 427.23s - 428.91s | For the newer Roborock devices, we 428.91s - 430.91s | had to basically figure out a custom bootloader 430.91s - 433.11s | tool, which required teardown. 433.11s - 435.99s | And we were kind of slightly annoyed about that. 435.99s - 438.91s | So back then, we took a first look at


chunk_text:
EchoVax. 399.43s - 403.23s | So I want to give you a very brief overview of our hacking 403.23s - 404.47s | journey so far. 404.47s - 406.07s | And for me personally, everything 406.11s - 408.15s | started back in 2017. 408.15s - 411.31s | I was giving a talk at the CCC and at DEF CON. 411.31s - 413.77s | And this was a work together back then with Danny Vigema. 413.77s - 415.43s | And we targeted the Xiaomi vacuum robots, 415.43s - 417.27s | the first generation, and the Roborock. 417.27s - 420.03s | And the over-the-air update system was completely broken. 420.03s - 423.31s | So we were able to just push local firmware updates. 423.31s - 425.23s | Then it became a little bit more complicated. 425.23s - 427.23s | So the vendors kind of locked on things. 427.23s - 428.91s | For the newer Roborock devices, we 428.91s - 430.91s | had to basically figure out a custom bootloader 430.91s - 433.11s | tool, which required teardown. 433.11s - 435.99s | And we were kind of slightly annoyed about that. 435.99s - 438.91s | So back then, we took a first look at EchoVax. 438.91s - 441.79s | And after my CCC talk back then, some influencer 441.79s - 444.95s | gave me an EchoVax D-Board 900, which he got from EchoVax. 444.95s - 446.83s | And this had the very, very early firmware 446.83s - 449.71s | with the bug symbols in there, which was very, very helpful. 449.71s - 451.33s | One thing which I figured out back then 451.33s - 452.87s | is that the firmware is unprotected. 452.87s - 453.91s | TLS is completely broken. 453.91s - 455.43s | There's no integrity protections. 455.43s - 457.67s | You can root a device via man-in-the-middle. 457.67s - 460.23s | And you can just push malicious OT updates. 460.23s - 462.75s | But one of the problems was the hardware was extremely weak. 462.75s - 464.79s | So it wasn't really interesting for us. 464.79s - 467.11s | And as a result, we never published the results on that, 467.11s - 469.15s | because, I mean, why would we? 469.15s - 471.35s | So over time, we had to develop new methods, 471.35s - 475.35s | because it became more and more difficult to root Roborock 475.35s - 476.75s | and


chunk_text:
EchoVax. 438.91s - 441.79s | And after my CCC talk back then, some influencer 441.79s - 444.95s | gave me an EchoVax D-Board 900, which he got from EchoVax. 444.95s - 446.83s | And this had the very, very early firmware 446.83s - 449.71s | with the bug symbols in there, which was very, very helpful. 449.71s - 451.33s | One thing which I figured out back then 451.33s - 452.87s | is that the firmware is unprotected. 452.87s - 453.91s | TLS is completely broken. 453.91s - 455.43s | There's no integrity protections. 455.43s - 457.67s | You can root a device via man-in-the-middle. 457.67s - 460.23s | And you can just push malicious OT updates. 460.23s - 462.75s | But one of the problems was the hardware was extremely weak. 462.75s - 464.79s | So it wasn't really interesting for us. 464.79s - 467.11s | And as a result, we never published the results on that, 467.11s - 469.15s | because, I mean, why would we? 469.15s - 471.35s | So over time, we had to develop new methods, 471.35s - 475.35s | because it became more and more difficult to root Roborock 475.35s - 476.75s | and Xiaomi devices. 476.75s - 482.35s | So in 2021, I released a method for newer Roborock devices 482.35s - 483.95s | and also Dreamy. 483.95s - 486.27s | By the way, the CyberDog is a Dreamy device technically, 486.27s - 489.11s | where we were able to bypass secure boot and some security 489.11s - 491.11s | features and be able to root it again. 491.11s - 494.79s | And it became, again, complicated in 2023. 494.79s - 497.79s | We were looking again at Dreamy, Roborock, Navel, and Shark 497.79s - 501.87s | and figured out a secure bypass for some bootloader magic. 501.87s - 505.67s | The issue with all of these is finding new rooting methods 505.67s - 507.87s | become very annoying, and it takes a long time. 507.87s - 510.27s | For the last one, we need basically multiple months. 510.27s - 511.75s | So we tried to find a new vendor, 511.75s - 514.35s | which we would attack again. 514.35s - 516.83s | So we went back to EchoVax. 516.83s - 518.55s | And by that time, EchoVax started 518.55s - 521.31s | to release more and more powerful devices. 521.31s - 523.71s


chunk_text:
Xiaomi devices. 476.75s - 482.35s | So in 2021, I released a method for newer Roborock devices 482.35s - 483.95s | and also Dreamy. 483.95s - 486.27s | By the way, the CyberDog is a Dreamy device technically, 486.27s - 489.11s | where we were able to bypass secure boot and some security 489.11s - 491.11s | features and be able to root it again. 491.11s - 494.79s | And it became, again, complicated in 2023. 494.79s - 497.79s | We were looking again at Dreamy, Roborock, Navel, and Shark 497.79s - 501.87s | and figured out a secure bypass for some bootloader magic. 501.87s - 505.67s | The issue with all of these is finding new rooting methods 505.67s - 507.87s | become very annoying, and it takes a long time. 507.87s - 510.27s | For the last one, we need basically multiple months. 510.27s - 511.75s | So we tried to find a new vendor, 511.75s - 514.35s | which we would attack again. 514.35s - 516.83s | So we went back to EchoVax. 516.83s - 518.55s | And by that time, EchoVax started 518.55s - 521.31s | to release more and more powerful devices. 521.31s - 523.71s | And they were very similar to other devices, 523.71s - 524.87s | but they were lower priced. 524.87s - 525.83s | So this is perfect. 525.83s - 528.03s | So one of the first devices which I analyzed back then 528.03s - 530.59s | was then the D-Bot X1. 530.59s - 532.67s | And basically, as soon as I unpacked it from the box, 532.67s - 535.15s | it took me exactly 30 minutes to basically get root access 535.15s - 537.35s | and have a modified file system on it. 537.35s - 540.19s | So this was a perfect target for future endeavors 540.19s - 542.55s | in the Fed company. 542.55s - 544.47s | In the penalty of that, as mentioned before, 544.47s - 548.35s | Braylin was messing with EchoVax and Yeti robots. 548.35s - 551.15s | And so it found very similar things. 551.15s - 552.55s | One thing which I need to address 552.55s - 554.75s | is a lot of vendors, they saw my talks, 554.75s - 557.83s | and they started to obfuscate or introducing countermeasures 557.83s - 559.23s | against our rooting attempts. 559.23s - 561.91s | For example, Shark Robot,


chunk_text:
| And they were very similar to other devices, 523.71s - 524.87s | but they were lower priced. 524.87s - 525.83s | So this is perfect. 525.83s - 528.03s | So one of the first devices which I analyzed back then 528.03s - 530.59s | was then the D-Bot X1. 530.59s - 532.67s | And basically, as soon as I unpacked it from the box, 532.67s - 535.15s | it took me exactly 30 minutes to basically get root access 535.15s - 537.35s | and have a modified file system on it. 537.35s - 540.19s | So this was a perfect target for future endeavors 540.19s - 542.55s | in the Fed company. 542.55s - 544.47s | In the penalty of that, as mentioned before, 544.47s - 548.35s | Braylin was messing with EchoVax and Yeti robots. 548.35s - 551.15s | And so it found very similar things. 551.15s - 552.55s | One thing which I need to address 552.55s - 554.75s | is a lot of vendors, they saw my talks, 554.75s - 557.83s | and they started to obfuscate or introducing countermeasures 557.83s - 559.23s | against our rooting attempts. 559.23s - 561.91s | For example, Shark Robot, or their contractor, 561.91s - 564.99s | they kind of just were hiding vias and everything. 564.99s - 565.87s | So they upgraded. 565.87s - 566.79s | We upgraded, too. 566.79s - 568.27s | Basically, we got an x-ray machine. 568.27s - 570.27s | And now, we started to just x-ray things 570.27s - 574.43s | because it's faster than just measuring through traces. 574.43s - 578.55s | So let's talk about the EchoVax ecosystem. 578.55s - 581.07s | So why are we looking at EchoVax generally? 581.07s - 583.51s | It turns out that this company is fairly old. 583.51s - 586.47s | They were founded back then in 1998 in China. 586.47s - 591.15s | And they produced initially OEM vacuum cleaners. 591.15s - 593.11s | Introduced their own brand of vacuum robot 593.11s - 595.63s | in 2007 with a D-Bot. 595.63s - 598.23s | And in 2020, we had the market share of 17%. 598.23s - 600.07s | So this was basically the latest number 600.07s - 601.95s | which we were able to find. 601.95s - 603.53s | We couldn't find a newer number. 603.53s - 605.61s | And so back then, we were second


chunk_text:
or their contractor, 561.91s - 564.99s | they kind of just were hiding vias and everything. 564.99s - 565.87s | So they upgraded. 565.87s - 566.79s | We upgraded, too. 566.79s - 568.27s | Basically, we got an x-ray machine. 568.27s - 570.27s | And now, we started to just x-ray things 570.27s - 574.43s | because it's faster than just measuring through traces. 574.43s - 578.55s | So let's talk about the EchoVax ecosystem. 578.55s - 581.07s | So why are we looking at EchoVax generally? 581.07s - 583.51s | It turns out that this company is fairly old. 583.51s - 586.47s | They were founded back then in 1998 in China. 586.47s - 591.15s | And they produced initially OEM vacuum cleaners. 591.15s - 593.11s | Introduced their own brand of vacuum robot 593.11s - 595.63s | in 2007 with a D-Bot. 595.63s - 598.23s | And in 2020, we had the market share of 17%. 598.23s - 600.07s | So this was basically the latest number 600.07s - 601.95s | which we were able to find. 601.95s - 603.53s | We couldn't find a newer number. 603.53s - 605.61s | And so back then, we were second to iRobot. 605.61s - 607.89s | But their global market share is way higher nowadays. 607.89s - 610.45s | So we assume that they're probably 610.45s - 613.93s | the top two or top three manufacturers. 613.93s - 618.73s | So their market cap is five times higher as iRobot. 618.73s - 620.81s | They produce a bunch of different products. 620.81s - 622.31s | So for example, vacuum robots, which 622.31s - 623.81s | is kind of what you would expect. 623.81s - 625.31s | But they have also window cleaners, 625.31s - 626.41s | which clean your window. 626.41s - 628.33s | They have mobile air purifiers. 628.33s - 629.53s | They have lawn mowing robots. 629.53s - 632.37s | And they have some other products. 632.37s - 633.97s | So let's take a look at the hardware. 633.97s - 635.57s | Well, so typically, if you look at the hardware, 635.57s - 636.93s | we kind of try to figure out, OK, 636.93s - 638.45s | what's going on in the device. 638.45s - 641.21s | And so what we have on one side is the SoC, which 641.21s - 643.05s | is basically running Linux. 643.05s


chunk_text:
to iRobot. 605.61s - 607.89s | But their global market share is way higher nowadays. 607.89s - 610.45s | So we assume that they're probably 610.45s - 613.93s | the top two or top three manufacturers. 613.93s - 618.73s | So their market cap is five times higher as iRobot. 618.73s - 620.81s | They produce a bunch of different products. 620.81s - 622.31s | So for example, vacuum robots, which 622.31s - 623.81s | is kind of what you would expect. 623.81s - 625.31s | But they have also window cleaners, 625.31s - 626.41s | which clean your window. 626.41s - 628.33s | They have mobile air purifiers. 628.33s - 629.53s | They have lawn mowing robots. 629.53s - 632.37s | And they have some other products. 632.37s - 633.97s | So let's take a look at the hardware. 633.97s - 635.57s | Well, so typically, if you look at the hardware, 635.57s - 636.93s | we kind of try to figure out, OK, 636.93s - 638.45s | what's going on in the device. 638.45s - 641.21s | And so what we have on one side is the SoC, which 641.21s - 643.05s | is basically running Linux. 643.05s - 646.09s | It's responsible for navigation, mapping, and connectivity. 646.09s - 647.53s | So it's connected to the storage. 647.53s - 650.97s | It has access to sensors like LiDAR, camera, microphones. 650.97s - 653.25s | It has the connectivity, so Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, 653.25s - 655.49s | and Ultra Wideband in some devices. 655.49s - 658.45s | On the other side, we have the MCU, the microcontroller, 658.45s - 660.85s | which is responsible for all the retail operation stuff. 660.85s - 664.13s | So controlling the wheels, infrared sensors, fans, 664.13s - 665.41s | and drop sensors. 665.41s - 668.49s | Typically, you want to have your drop centers real-time operated 668.49s - 671.53s | because you don't want to wait one second until the robot is 671.53s - 672.89s | already flying down the stairs. 672.89s - 675.65s | So you want to do that real-time. 675.65s - 677.37s | All right, so one of the first devices 677.37s - 680.01s | which I saw, I mentioned back in 2018, 680.01s - 681.37s | was the D-Bot 900 series. 681.37s - 683.09s | This was basically like a rocket ship 683.09s - 685.73s | with one core,


chunk_text:
- 646.09s | It's responsible for navigation, mapping, and connectivity. 646.09s - 647.53s | So it's connected to the storage. 647.53s - 650.97s | It has access to sensors like LiDAR, camera, microphones. 650.97s - 653.25s | It has the connectivity, so Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, 653.25s - 655.49s | and Ultra Wideband in some devices. 655.49s - 658.45s | On the other side, we have the MCU, the microcontroller, 658.45s - 660.85s | which is responsible for all the retail operation stuff. 660.85s - 664.13s | So controlling the wheels, infrared sensors, fans, 664.13s - 665.41s | and drop sensors. 665.41s - 668.49s | Typically, you want to have your drop centers real-time operated 668.49s - 671.53s | because you don't want to wait one second until the robot is 671.53s - 672.89s | already flying down the stairs. 672.89s - 675.65s | So you want to do that real-time. 675.65s - 677.37s | All right, so one of the first devices 677.37s - 680.01s | which I saw, I mentioned back in 2018, 680.01s - 681.37s | was the D-Bot 900 series. 681.37s - 683.09s | This was basically like a rocket ship 683.09s - 685.73s | with one core, 128 megabyte of RAM, 685.73s - 687.49s | and 256 megabyte of NAND flash. 687.49s - 689.73s | So not great. 689.73s - 692.33s | Sensor-wise, we had back then LiDAR already, infrared sensors, 692.33s - 693.41s | but it was just too weak. 693.41s - 695.25s | So even if you have root access, there's 695.25s - 696.79s | literally nothing we can run on that 696.79s - 699.13s | because it runs out of memory. 699.13s - 700.45s | Thankfully, later on, they started 700.45s - 702.33s | to put more performance chips into it. 702.33s - 707.97s | So the X1, in this case, was interesting and cheap. 707.97s - 710.73s | And they recycled from there on the hardware 710.73s - 711.81s | for multiple generations. 711.81s - 714.13s | So for us, it makes sense to look into that 714.13s - 716.09s | because we basically could repeat our knowledge 716.09s - 718.21s | on newer models. 718.21s - 722.49s | In our example, the X1 was also interesting 722.49s - 724.13s | because it had a station. 724.13s - 726.41s | So both station and robot were creating 726.41s - 727.49s | their own


chunk_text:
128 megabyte of RAM, 685.73s - 687.49s | and 256 megabyte of NAND flash. 687.49s - 689.73s | So not great. 689.73s - 692.33s | Sensor-wise, we had back then LiDAR already, infrared sensors, 692.33s - 693.41s | but it was just too weak. 693.41s - 695.25s | So even if you have root access, there's 695.25s - 696.79s | literally nothing we can run on that 696.79s - 699.13s | because it runs out of memory. 699.13s - 700.45s | Thankfully, later on, they started 700.45s - 702.33s | to put more performance chips into it. 702.33s - 707.97s | So the X1, in this case, was interesting and cheap. 707.97s - 710.73s | And they recycled from there on the hardware 710.73s - 711.81s | for multiple generations. 711.81s - 714.13s | So for us, it makes sense to look into that 714.13s - 716.09s | because we basically could repeat our knowledge 716.09s - 718.21s | on newer models. 718.21s - 722.49s | In our example, the X1 was also interesting 722.49s - 724.13s | because it had a station. 724.13s - 726.41s | So both station and robot were creating 726.41s - 727.49s | their own Wi-Fi network. 727.49s - 729.17s | We had a voice assistant, so microphones, 729.17s - 730.33s | which is always good. 730.33s - 731.93s | And we had the remote view feature, 731.93s - 733.65s | so you could access the camera remotely, 733.65s - 736.09s | which is always great for hacking. 736.09s - 737.93s | If you take a look at the hardware, 737.93s - 739.85s | it's more or less the same hardware as the X2, 739.85s - 742.13s | so the newer generations, which we have here. 742.13s - 745.05s | And it's based on the Horizon X3 SoC. 745.05s - 748.77s | So this is a quad-core ARM Cortex-A 748.77s - 750.37s | with a Cortex-R in it. 750.37s - 753.97s | And it has also AI acceleration on the same chip. 753.97s - 757.37s | They used 2 gigabyte of RAM, 512 megabyte of SPI flash, 757.37s - 759.57s | and a GD32 MCU, which is basically 759.57s - 762.17s | like a copycat SDM32. 762.17s - 763.89s | The X2, by the way, they used EMMC flash 763.89s - 766.17s | because they figured out they don't have enough flash, 766.17s - 767.49s


chunk_text:
Wi-Fi network. 727.49s - 729.17s | We had a voice assistant, so microphones, 729.17s - 730.33s | which is always good. 730.33s - 731.93s | And we had the remote view feature, 731.93s - 733.65s | so you could access the camera remotely, 733.65s - 736.09s | which is always great for hacking. 736.09s - 737.93s | If you take a look at the hardware, 737.93s - 739.85s | it's more or less the same hardware as the X2, 739.85s - 742.13s | so the newer generations, which we have here. 742.13s - 745.05s | And it's based on the Horizon X3 SoC. 745.05s - 748.77s | So this is a quad-core ARM Cortex-A 748.77s - 750.37s | with a Cortex-R in it. 750.37s - 753.97s | And it has also AI acceleration on the same chip. 753.97s - 757.37s | They used 2 gigabyte of RAM, 512 megabyte of SPI flash, 757.37s - 759.57s | and a GD32 MCU, which is basically 759.57s - 762.17s | like a copycat SDM32. 762.17s - 763.89s | The X2, by the way, they used EMMC flash 763.89s - 766.17s | because they figured out they don't have enough flash, 766.17s - 767.49s | so we needed more stuff. 767.49s - 769.57s | One chip which was especially interesting for us 769.57s - 773.05s | is they have a special chip for voice processing, which 773.05s - 774.85s | is the Baidu AI chip. 774.85s - 777.33s | And it has its own firmware, and they supposedly 777.33s - 782.01s | use it for regular detection, but who knows. 782.01s - 784.29s | So let's talk about the sensors. 784.29s - 786.85s | Well, the X1 has a LiDAR sensor, which is kind of cool. 786.85s - 789.01s | It has a microphone array for whatever reason, 789.01s - 792.41s | or for the voice assistant, but I mean, why would you use it? 792.41s - 793.89s | And it has camera and line lasers, 793.89s - 796.77s | so basically to detect objects in front of it. 796.77s - 798.69s | And it has obviously a lot of infrared sensors 798.69s - 800.53s | to kind of detect if it runs into something, 800.53s - 803.05s | if it drops from somewhere, or if it runs over your cat. 804.85s - 806.49s | A device which is very, very similar 806.49s -


chunk_text:
| so we needed more stuff. 767.49s - 769.57s | One chip which was especially interesting for us 769.57s - 773.05s | is they have a special chip for voice processing, which 773.05s - 774.85s | is the Baidu AI chip. 774.85s - 777.33s | And it has its own firmware, and they supposedly 777.33s - 782.01s | use it for regular detection, but who knows. 782.01s - 784.29s | So let's talk about the sensors. 784.29s - 786.85s | Well, the X1 has a LiDAR sensor, which is kind of cool. 786.85s - 789.01s | It has a microphone array for whatever reason, 789.01s - 792.41s | or for the voice assistant, but I mean, why would you use it? 792.41s - 793.89s | And it has camera and line lasers, 793.89s - 796.77s | so basically to detect objects in front of it. 796.77s - 798.69s | And it has obviously a lot of infrared sensors 798.69s - 800.53s | to kind of detect if it runs into something, 800.53s - 803.05s | if it drops from somewhere, or if it runs over your cat. 804.85s - 806.49s | A device which is very, very similar 806.49s - 811.57s | is the AirBot Z1, which we call the SpyBot out of reasons. 811.57s - 813.49s | It was released last year. 813.49s - 816.13s | It's based on the same design like as the X1, 816.13s - 819.13s | but it has one additional camera and six microphones. 819.13s - 820.73s | And the features of that is, well, 820.73s - 824.33s | you can use it as a Bluetooth speaker, which follows you. 824.33s - 827.09s | It's an air filter and humidifier, 827.09s - 829.81s | and it has a home patrol mode, so it 829.81s - 831.61s | will drive around in your home. 831.61s - 834.61s | And if an intruder gets in, it will kind of alarm you. 834.61s - 837.49s | The thing is, you can also use it to talk to someone at home. 837.49s - 839.25s | And basically, if you walk away, the robot 839.25s - 842.21s | will kind of follow you and kind of focus on your face. 842.21s - 843.93s | The cool thing here is you basically 843.93s - 846.37s | get two robots for the price of one. 846.37s - 849.25s | What they


chunk_text:
811.57s | is the AirBot Z1, which we call the SpyBot out of reasons. 811.57s - 813.49s | It was released last year. 813.49s - 816.13s | It's based on the same design like as the X1, 816.13s - 819.13s | but it has one additional camera and six microphones. 819.13s - 820.73s | And the features of that is, well, 820.73s - 824.33s | you can use it as a Bluetooth speaker, which follows you. 824.33s - 827.09s | It's an air filter and humidifier, 827.09s - 829.81s | and it has a home patrol mode, so it 829.81s - 831.61s | will drive around in your home. 831.61s - 834.61s | And if an intruder gets in, it will kind of alarm you. 834.61s - 837.49s | The thing is, you can also use it to talk to someone at home. 837.49s - 839.25s | And basically, if you walk away, the robot 839.25s - 842.21s | will kind of follow you and kind of focus on your face. 842.21s - 843.93s | The cool thing here is you basically 843.93s - 846.37s | get two robots for the price of one. 846.37s - 849.25s | What they did is they basically recycled their old robots. 849.25s - 851.85s | So the top part of the air purifier 851.85s - 854.37s | is basically an X1, a vacuum robot. 854.37s - 858.13s | The bottom part is an old 900 series device. 858.13s - 859.53s | And there's an ethernet cable which 859.53s - 862.21s | runs through the whole big thing, which connects 862.21s - 864.21s | both of them via ethernet. 864.21s - 867.01s | So very efficient. 867.01s - 871.09s | So let's talk about the lawn mowings, lawn mowing robots. 871.09s - 873.85s | They have been released in 2023 in Europe. 873.85s - 878.25s | And this year, I think recently post-CES, this year in US. 878.25s - 880.77s | It's kind of cool because they have for navigation GPS, 880.77s - 883.57s | but also they used visual and time-of-flight cameras, 883.57s - 885.61s | so they can kind of create a point cloud. 885.61s - 890.13s | And they use ultra-wide-band beacons to kind of navigate. 890.13s - 892.85s | And feature-wise, you can put an LTE module into them, 892.85s - 895.57s | so you can connect them even if


chunk_text:
did is they basically recycled their old robots. 849.25s - 851.85s | So the top part of the air purifier 851.85s - 854.37s | is basically an X1, a vacuum robot. 854.37s - 858.13s | The bottom part is an old 900 series device. 858.13s - 859.53s | And there's an ethernet cable which 859.53s - 862.21s | runs through the whole big thing, which connects 862.21s - 864.21s | both of them via ethernet. 864.21s - 867.01s | So very efficient. 867.01s - 871.09s | So let's talk about the lawn mowings, lawn mowing robots. 871.09s - 873.85s | They have been released in 2023 in Europe. 873.85s - 878.25s | And this year, I think recently post-CES, this year in US. 878.25s - 880.77s | It's kind of cool because they have for navigation GPS, 880.77s - 883.57s | but also they used visual and time-of-flight cameras, 883.57s - 885.61s | so they can kind of create a point cloud. 885.61s - 890.13s | And they use ultra-wide-band beacons to kind of navigate. 890.13s - 892.85s | And feature-wise, you can put an LTE module into them, 892.85s - 895.57s | so you can connect them even if the Wi-Fi doesn't 895.57s - 897.65s | have connectivity. 897.65s - 900.05s | And again, they have a remote view and patrol function, 900.05s - 902.69s | so they will patrol your garden. 902.69s - 904.45s | Now, you might be paranoid and say, wait, 904.45s - 907.93s | I don't want a company to watch my garden. 907.93s - 908.93s | Of course, don't worry. 908.93s - 909.73s | They're certified. 909.73s - 912.61s | They say, yeah, you can watch your garden, patrol your garden, 912.61s - 914.65s | but your data stays safe. 914.65s - 918.89s | And we are certified because we use encryption and stuff. 918.89s - 921.93s | If you ever run into the issue to reverse engineer devices 921.97s - 925.13s | like that, be prepared that you need a lot of space. 925.13s - 928.73s | So this has been a lot of screws. 928.73s - 931.77s | And it took hours and hours and hours to disassemble it, 931.77s - 933.49s | and even more hours to reassemble it. 933.49s - 935.21s | And two screws were missing, and I still 935.21s - 936.45s | don't know where they are. 936.45s


chunk_text:
the Wi-Fi doesn't 895.57s - 897.65s | have connectivity. 897.65s - 900.05s | And again, they have a remote view and patrol function, 900.05s - 902.69s | so they will patrol your garden. 902.69s - 904.45s | Now, you might be paranoid and say, wait, 904.45s - 907.93s | I don't want a company to watch my garden. 907.93s - 908.93s | Of course, don't worry. 908.93s - 909.73s | They're certified. 909.73s - 912.61s | They say, yeah, you can watch your garden, patrol your garden, 912.61s - 914.65s | but your data stays safe. 914.65s - 918.89s | And we are certified because we use encryption and stuff. 918.89s - 921.93s | If you ever run into the issue to reverse engineer devices 921.97s - 925.13s | like that, be prepared that you need a lot of space. 925.13s - 928.73s | So this has been a lot of screws. 928.73s - 931.77s | And it took hours and hours and hours to disassemble it, 931.77s - 933.49s | and even more hours to reassemble it. 933.49s - 935.21s | And two screws were missing, and I still 935.21s - 936.45s | don't know where they are. 936.45s - 940.05s | So always keep track of your screws. 940.05s - 943.09s | So if you take a look at the lawnmower, 943.09s - 947.53s | it has an octa-core Rockchip SoC with an AI accelerator, 947.53s - 949.09s | like a GPU, basically. 949.09s - 952.53s | 4 gigabyte of RAM, 16 gigabyte of eMMC flash, 952.53s - 954.01s | and it has multiple MCUs. 954.01s - 956.25s | So it has a display, which you can control. 956.25s - 958.45s | It has its own STM32-like display. 958.45s - 962.61s | I tried to run Doom, but it doesn't have enough flash. 962.61s - 964.01s | And also, even the knife assembly, 964.01s - 968.53s | which controls the cutting, it has also its own MCU. 968.53s - 971.17s | Sensor-wise, it has a 360-degree camera on top. 971.17s - 972.13s | It has a front camera. 972.13s - 973.93s | It has a time-of-flight sensor. 973.93s - 975.05s | It has rain detectors. 975.05s - 975.97s | It has bump switches. 975.97s - 979.85s | So they put every sensor in there, which you can have. 979.85s - 982.81s | Thankfully, they gave us a lot


chunk_text:
- 940.05s | So always keep track of your screws. 940.05s - 943.09s | So if you take a look at the lawnmower, 943.09s - 947.53s | it has an octa-core Rockchip SoC with an AI accelerator, 947.53s - 949.09s | like a GPU, basically. 949.09s - 952.53s | 4 gigabyte of RAM, 16 gigabyte of eMMC flash, 952.53s - 954.01s | and it has multiple MCUs. 954.01s - 956.25s | So it has a display, which you can control. 956.25s - 958.45s | It has its own STM32-like display. 958.45s - 962.61s | I tried to run Doom, but it doesn't have enough flash. 962.61s - 964.01s | And also, even the knife assembly, 964.01s - 968.53s | which controls the cutting, it has also its own MCU. 968.53s - 971.17s | Sensor-wise, it has a 360-degree camera on top. 971.17s - 972.13s | It has a front camera. 972.13s - 973.93s | It has a time-of-flight sensor. 973.93s - 975.05s | It has rain detectors. 975.05s - 975.97s | It has bump switches. 975.97s - 979.85s | So they put every sensor in there, which you can have. 979.85s - 982.81s | Thankfully, they gave us a lot of debug ports. 982.81s - 986.85s | So all the models since 2019 have very similar debug ports, 986.85s - 990.73s | which give you UART, 3.3 volt, SWG, and USB. 990.73s - 993.97s | And it's easy to debug, and you can root a device 993.97s - 996.65s | or get a root shell, basically, without breaking 996.65s - 998.17s | any of the warranty seals. 998.17s - 1002.14s | Cool. 1002.14s - 1003.86s | Now let's talk about some of the software 1003.86s - 1005.26s | that Ecovacs employs. 1005.26s - 1007.94s | So these things run on Linux OS. 1007.94s - 1011.74s | They're basically just a mobile Linux server. 1011.74s - 1013.66s | They are using ROS, Melodic Merenia, 1013.66s - 1016.46s | for the robotics portion or handling. 1016.46s - 1020.02s | They also have a custom software suite called Medusa. 1020.02s - 1022.38s | And there's a couple of interesting software packages 1022.38s - 1027.06s | that are on the robot, including Python 2.7, which 1027.06s - 1029.10s | is very handy for hackers. 1029.10s - 1034.06s | They also use the AWS Kinesis SDK for remote camera access 1034.06s - 1036.58s | outside


chunk_text:
of debug ports. 982.81s - 986.85s | So all the models since 2019 have very similar debug ports, 986.85s - 990.73s | which give you UART, 3.3 volt, SWG, and USB. 990.73s - 993.97s | And it's easy to debug, and you can root a device 993.97s - 996.65s | or get a root shell, basically, without breaking 996.65s - 998.17s | any of the warranty seals. 998.17s - 1002.14s | Cool. 1002.14s - 1003.86s | Now let's talk about some of the software 1003.86s - 1005.26s | that Ecovacs employs. 1005.26s - 1007.94s | So these things run on Linux OS. 1007.94s - 1011.74s | They're basically just a mobile Linux server. 1011.74s - 1013.66s | They are using ROS, Melodic Merenia, 1013.66s - 1016.46s | for the robotics portion or handling. 1016.46s - 1020.02s | They also have a custom software suite called Medusa. 1020.02s - 1022.38s | And there's a couple of interesting software packages 1022.38s - 1027.06s | that are on the robot, including Python 2.7, which 1027.06s - 1029.10s | is very handy for hackers. 1029.10s - 1034.06s | They also use the AWS Kinesis SDK for remote camera access 1034.06s - 1036.58s | outside of China and the Alibaba Aliyun 1036.58s - 1039.98s | SDK for remote camera access inside of China. 1039.98s - 1042.94s | So the good thing is that there are little to no protections 1042.94s - 1046.22s | against rooting, which is what hackers like. 1046.22s - 1049.10s | So let's briefly touch on some AI models that they're using. 1049.10s - 1052.58s | They use TensorFlow and OpenCV for detection. 1052.58s - 1056.78s | Some of the typical objects include furniture, cables, 1056.78s - 1059.86s | pets, and pet remains. 1059.86s - 1062.66s | The lawnmower also can detect small animals and face recon. 1062.70s - 1068.34s | But on the right is a screenshot of our favorite object 1068.34s - 1071.74s | that it can detect. 1071.74s - 1074.62s | So just wanted to touch on firmware updates. 1074.62s - 1076.74s | We've been keeping track of their firmware updates 1076.74s - 1080.26s | since we've obtained the robot. 1080.26s - 1084.10s | The US version was released in 2023. 1084.10s - 1089.50s | And they have, why did that go so quick? 1089.50s - 1093.46s | They had been putting out monthly firmware updates 1093.46s - 1095.26s


chunk_text:
of China and the Alibaba Aliyun 1036.58s - 1039.98s | SDK for remote camera access inside of China. 1039.98s - 1042.94s | So the good thing is that there are little to no protections 1042.94s - 1046.22s | against rooting, which is what hackers like. 1046.22s - 1049.10s | So let's briefly touch on some AI models that they're using. 1049.10s - 1052.58s | They use TensorFlow and OpenCV for detection. 1052.58s - 1056.78s | Some of the typical objects include furniture, cables, 1056.78s - 1059.86s | pets, and pet remains. 1059.86s - 1062.66s | The lawnmower also can detect small animals and face recon. 1062.70s - 1068.34s | But on the right is a screenshot of our favorite object 1068.34s - 1071.74s | that it can detect. 1071.74s - 1074.62s | So just wanted to touch on firmware updates. 1074.62s - 1076.74s | We've been keeping track of their firmware updates 1076.74s - 1080.26s | since we've obtained the robot. 1080.26s - 1084.10s | The US version was released in 2023. 1084.10s - 1089.50s | And they have, why did that go so quick? 1089.50s - 1093.46s | They had been putting out monthly firmware updates 1093.46s - 1095.26s | since then. 1095.26s - 1098.38s | And they stopped in March 2024. 1098.38s - 1099.94s | So we're kind of questioning if this 1099.94s - 1104.30s | is the end of life for this pretty new product. 1104.30s - 1106.58s | Their changelogs are also not very informative. 1106.58s - 1110.10s | So we have a theory that they are dropping device support 1110.10s - 1113.78s | very quickly, which is unfortunate. 1113.78s - 1117.34s | So the mobile app structure, there's 1117.46s - 1120.74s | a core app, the EchoVax Home app. 1120.74s - 1124.98s | And then when you add robots, plugins 1124.98s - 1126.38s | are downloaded dynamically every time 1126.38s - 1129.78s | you add one to your account. 1129.78s - 1131.86s | Now we'll talk about security and privacy. 1131.86s - 1135.42s | So when we first started researching EchoVax robots, 1135.42s - 1137.74s | we wanted to see if they had a bug bounty program. 1137.74s - 1141.54s | And this is the only page that we found for their security 1141.54s - 1142.62s | program. 1142.62s - 1144.78s | They claim that they have a public bulletin board 1144.78s - 1148.22s |


chunk_text:
| since then. 1095.26s - 1098.38s | And they stopped in March 2024. 1098.38s - 1099.94s | So we're kind of questioning if this 1099.94s - 1104.30s | is the end of life for this pretty new product. 1104.30s - 1106.58s | Their changelogs are also not very informative. 1106.58s - 1110.10s | So we have a theory that they are dropping device support 1110.10s - 1113.78s | very quickly, which is unfortunate. 1113.78s - 1117.34s | So the mobile app structure, there's 1117.46s - 1120.74s | a core app, the EchoVax Home app. 1120.74s - 1124.98s | And then when you add robots, plugins 1124.98s - 1126.38s | are downloaded dynamically every time 1126.38s - 1129.78s | you add one to your account. 1129.78s - 1131.86s | Now we'll talk about security and privacy. 1131.86s - 1135.42s | So when we first started researching EchoVax robots, 1135.42s - 1137.74s | we wanted to see if they had a bug bounty program. 1137.74s - 1141.54s | And this is the only page that we found for their security 1141.54s - 1142.62s | program. 1142.62s - 1144.78s | They claim that they have a public bulletin board 1144.78s - 1148.22s | if you report bugs to their just kind of email address. 1148.22s - 1149.98s | They want you to email bugs to them, 1149.98s - 1152.98s | which is not a secure method to do that generally. 1152.98s - 1156.10s | So yeah, there's no real collaborative bug bounty 1156.10s - 1156.82s | program. 1156.82s - 1159.22s | And they don't respond to our reports or emails. 1159.22s - 1161.74s | They just kind of ignore us. 1161.74s - 1165.82s | Some bugs are silently patched, we've noted. 1165.82s - 1168.30s | But their privacy policy, it doesn't, 1168.30s - 1170.78s | there's no guarantees that the data stays in your locale, 1170.78s - 1173.66s | which is kind of scary. 1173.66s - 1177.62s | Regional AWS services are used for the EU and US and China, 1177.62s - 1178.86s | of course. 1178.86s - 1181.62s | Some photos and videos are sent to Ali Cloud Video 1181.62s - 1182.94s | for AI analysis. 1182.94s - 1186.02s | In certain models, they claim that you have to opt in. 1186.02s - 1189.46s | I'm not sure if they honor that, but more research is needed. 1189.46s - 1191.58s | But


chunk_text:
if you report bugs to their just kind of email address. 1148.22s - 1149.98s | They want you to email bugs to them, 1149.98s - 1152.98s | which is not a secure method to do that generally. 1152.98s - 1156.10s | So yeah, there's no real collaborative bug bounty 1156.10s - 1156.82s | program. 1156.82s - 1159.22s | And they don't respond to our reports or emails. 1159.22s - 1161.74s | They just kind of ignore us. 1161.74s - 1165.82s | Some bugs are silently patched, we've noted. 1165.82s - 1168.30s | But their privacy policy, it doesn't, 1168.30s - 1170.78s | there's no guarantees that the data stays in your locale, 1170.78s - 1173.66s | which is kind of scary. 1173.66s - 1177.62s | Regional AWS services are used for the EU and US and China, 1177.62s - 1178.86s | of course. 1178.86s - 1181.62s | Some photos and videos are sent to Ali Cloud Video 1181.62s - 1182.94s | for AI analysis. 1182.94s - 1186.02s | In certain models, they claim that you have to opt in. 1186.02s - 1189.46s | I'm not sure if they honor that, but more research is needed. 1189.46s - 1191.58s | But of course, lots of telemetry data 1191.58s - 1195.50s | is collected, as with most IoT devices these days. 1195.50s - 1197.70s | So what are we concerned about? 1197.70s - 1200.46s | These vacuums have microphones and cameras. 1200.46s - 1203.06s | So can they be enabled remotely without user notice? 1203.06s - 1206.62s | And where's the data sent to? 1206.62s - 1209.54s | And of course, we need to be concerned with AI and privacy. 1209.54s - 1213.26s | So why do these robots need face recon AI models? 1213.26s - 1218.98s | And is this telemetry data being used to train their AI? 1218.98s - 1224.18s | So after Dennis's DEF CON talk last year 1224.18s - 1228.18s | about Roborock vacuums, they posted this really interesting 1228.18s - 1232.34s | blog post titled, Can Robot Vacuum Cameras Be Hacked? 1232.38s - 1236.38s | And they claim that their cameras are encrypting all data 1236.38s - 1237.50s | gathered by the device. 1237.50s - 1243.38s | But who knows? 1243.38s - 1246.10s | So they post a bunch of certifications 1246.10s - 1249.30s | from 2 Vineland, which costs quite a bit of money. 1249.30s -


chunk_text:
of course, lots of telemetry data 1191.58s - 1195.50s | is collected, as with most IoT devices these days. 1195.50s - 1197.70s | So what are we concerned about? 1197.70s - 1200.46s | These vacuums have microphones and cameras. 1200.46s - 1203.06s | So can they be enabled remotely without user notice? 1203.06s - 1206.62s | And where's the data sent to? 1206.62s - 1209.54s | And of course, we need to be concerned with AI and privacy. 1209.54s - 1213.26s | So why do these robots need face recon AI models? 1213.26s - 1218.98s | And is this telemetry data being used to train their AI? 1218.98s - 1224.18s | So after Dennis's DEF CON talk last year 1224.18s - 1228.18s | about Roborock vacuums, they posted this really interesting 1228.18s - 1232.34s | blog post titled, Can Robot Vacuum Cameras Be Hacked? 1232.38s - 1236.38s | And they claim that their cameras are encrypting all data 1236.38s - 1237.50s | gathered by the device. 1237.50s - 1243.38s | But who knows? 1243.38s - 1246.10s | So they post a bunch of certifications 1246.10s - 1249.30s | from 2 Vineland, which costs quite a bit of money. 1249.30s - 1252.86s | And they claim to be meeting and exceeding all standards. 1252.86s - 1254.74s | They even have a splash screen when 1254.74s - 1256.62s | you load their mobile app, claiming 1256.62s - 1258.54s | that they meet ISO standards. 1258.54s - 1261.74s | Again, not in line with our findings, 1261.74s - 1263.82s | which we will talk about now. 1263.82s - 1268.82s | So data harvesting, the mobile apps and the robot 1268.82s - 1270.18s | are pretty chatty. 1270.18s - 1272.98s | Just a lot of communication with the EchoVox servers. 1272.98s - 1274.86s | Their key data collection API endpoints 1274.86s - 1277.10s | are called Big Data and Data Upload. 1277.10s - 1280.06s | So it's not like they're hiding what they're doing. 1280.06s - 1282.30s | They're pretty upfront about it. 1282.30s - 1284.86s | So some example of telemetry data that's collected 1284.86s - 1288.18s | are live coordinates of the robot location in your home, 1288.26s - 1290.74s | Wi-Fi access points, network data, 1290.74s - 1294.10s | and additional debug information is sent to EchoVox servers 1294.10s - 1296.98s | if the robot gets stuck somewhere, 1296.98s - 1300.26s


chunk_text:
1252.86s | And they claim to be meeting and exceeding all standards. 1252.86s - 1254.74s | They even have a splash screen when 1254.74s - 1256.62s | you load their mobile app, claiming 1256.62s - 1258.54s | that they meet ISO standards. 1258.54s - 1261.74s | Again, not in line with our findings, 1261.74s - 1263.82s | which we will talk about now. 1263.82s - 1268.82s | So data harvesting, the mobile apps and the robot 1268.82s - 1270.18s | are pretty chatty. 1270.18s - 1272.98s | Just a lot of communication with the EchoVox servers. 1272.98s - 1274.86s | Their key data collection API endpoints 1274.86s - 1277.10s | are called Big Data and Data Upload. 1277.10s - 1280.06s | So it's not like they're hiding what they're doing. 1280.06s - 1282.30s | They're pretty upfront about it. 1282.30s - 1284.86s | So some example of telemetry data that's collected 1284.86s - 1288.18s | are live coordinates of the robot location in your home, 1288.26s - 1290.74s | Wi-Fi access points, network data, 1290.74s - 1294.10s | and additional debug information is sent to EchoVox servers 1294.10s - 1296.98s | if the robot gets stuck somewhere, 1296.98s - 1300.26s | and possibly AI pictures, even if not opted in. 1300.26s - 1302.62s | So what are they retaining in their cloud? 1302.62s - 1305.34s | Maps and pictures are stored in a NoSQL database. 1305.34s - 1308.98s | So anyone who knows the object ID of the map 1308.98s - 1310.06s | can access that data. 1310.06s - 1314.18s | There's no access controls on these points of information, 1314.18s - 1315.46s | which is, I don't know. 1315.46s - 1317.34s | I don't want random people with an EchoVox account 1317.38s - 1319.18s | to be able to see a map of my house. 1320.10s - 1322.62s | The maps associated with the robots, 1322.62s - 1324.54s | they seem to remain on servers, 1324.54s - 1326.66s | even if you do a factory reset 1326.66s - 1328.98s | or repair the device to a different account. 1328.98s - 1331.82s | Also deleting your actual EchoVox account has no effect. 1331.82s - 1334.26s | The map remains indefinitely on their servers, 1334.26s - 1338.50s | even if you supposedly remove all of your information 1338.50s - 1340.10s | from your account. 1341.26s - 1343.74s | So, oh, what's


chunk_text:
| and possibly AI pictures, even if not opted in. 1300.26s - 1302.62s | So what are they retaining in their cloud? 1302.62s - 1305.34s | Maps and pictures are stored in a NoSQL database. 1305.34s - 1308.98s | So anyone who knows the object ID of the map 1308.98s - 1310.06s | can access that data. 1310.06s - 1314.18s | There's no access controls on these points of information, 1314.18s - 1315.46s | which is, I don't know. 1315.46s - 1317.34s | I don't want random people with an EchoVox account 1317.38s - 1319.18s | to be able to see a map of my house. 1320.10s - 1322.62s | The maps associated with the robots, 1322.62s - 1324.54s | they seem to remain on servers, 1324.54s - 1326.66s | even if you do a factory reset 1326.66s - 1328.98s | or repair the device to a different account. 1328.98s - 1331.82s | Also deleting your actual EchoVox account has no effect. 1331.82s - 1334.26s | The map remains indefinitely on their servers, 1334.26s - 1338.50s | even if you supposedly remove all of your information 1338.50s - 1340.10s | from your account. 1341.26s - 1343.74s | So, oh, what's wrong? 1344.70s - 1346.98s | Oh, sorry, skipped over one point. 1348.18s - 1352.18s | Oh, the JWTs that are used for authentication are also, 1352.18s - 1354.50s | they also remain valid after you delete your account, 1354.50s - 1356.26s | so you can continue using your account 1356.26s - 1357.74s | even though you deleted it. 1359.70s - 1361.98s | And access to the robot is still possible. 1361.98s - 1363.94s | So not ideal security. 1365.30s - 1367.54s | So what are they storing on the device? 1367.54s - 1369.10s | There's a user data partition, 1369.10s - 1370.98s | and it's not encrypted, of course. 1370.98s - 1372.98s | Why would they encrypt that? 1372.98s - 1375.14s | There's lots of logs, configs, maps, 1375.14s - 1377.54s | and pictures that are stored on this partition, 1377.54s - 1379.18s | including the live video pin, 1379.18s - 1381.34s | which is stored in an MD5 hash, 1381.34s - 1383.30s | and the robot lawnmower, 1383.30s - 1386.50s | the lawnmower robot pin, which is stored in plain text. 1386.50s - 1388.02s | There's also Wi-Fi credentials 1388.02s - 1390.86s | and your neighbor's Wi-Fi access points,


chunk_text:
wrong? 1344.70s - 1346.98s | Oh, sorry, skipped over one point. 1348.18s - 1352.18s | Oh, the JWTs that are used for authentication are also, 1352.18s - 1354.50s | they also remain valid after you delete your account, 1354.50s - 1356.26s | so you can continue using your account 1356.26s - 1357.74s | even though you deleted it. 1359.70s - 1361.98s | And access to the robot is still possible. 1361.98s - 1363.94s | So not ideal security. 1365.30s - 1367.54s | So what are they storing on the device? 1367.54s - 1369.10s | There's a user data partition, 1369.10s - 1370.98s | and it's not encrypted, of course. 1370.98s - 1372.98s | Why would they encrypt that? 1372.98s - 1375.14s | There's lots of logs, configs, maps, 1375.14s - 1377.54s | and pictures that are stored on this partition, 1377.54s - 1379.18s | including the live video pin, 1379.18s - 1381.34s | which is stored in an MD5 hash, 1381.34s - 1383.30s | and the robot lawnmower, 1383.30s - 1386.50s | the lawnmower robot pin, which is stored in plain text. 1386.50s - 1388.02s | There's also Wi-Fi credentials 1388.02s - 1390.86s | and your neighbor's Wi-Fi access points, 1390.86s - 1392.70s | so they're kind of just mapping the whole world 1392.70s - 1394.78s | with their robot vacuums. 1394.78s - 1398.62s | There's also the HelloYiku traffic logs, 1398.62s - 1401.42s | which are, that's their voice assistant. 1401.46s - 1404.98s | So keeping track of what you say to your robot. 1404.98s - 1407.86s | So always keep in mind that if you're selling a used device 1407.86s - 1409.82s | that even if you factory reset it, 1409.82s - 1413.70s | there's a risk to your privacy. 1413.70s - 1417.50s | And additionally, Flashware leveling will always be a problem 1417.50s - 1419.10s | but that's for a different talk. 1420.02s - 1423.38s | So one of our big findings was that 1423.38s - 1427.22s | they did not configure their TLS properly. 1427.22s - 1429.14s | So the EchoVax home app 1429.14s - 1432.18s | mobile application correctly checks certificates, 1432.18s - 1435.78s | but the robot specific plugins don't always do that. 1435.78s - 1439.74s | So the plugins sometimes accept self-signed certificates, 1439.74s - 1443.30s | which is very risky to use on an insecure Wi-Fi network, 1443.30s - 1446.66s | like


