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to achieve great impact. 2133.25s - 2134.73s | We talked about some of the permissions 2134.73s - 2135.77s | of the GitHub token today, 2135.77s - 2138.09s | but there's a lot of other dangerous permissions out there. 2138.09s - 2139.81s | So some of them don't pose a risk, 2139.81s - 2141.93s | but others like contents right and actions right 2141.93s - 2143.93s | obviously pose a significant risk. 2143.93s - 2146.13s | So other permissions we have identified 2146.13s - 2148.37s | as dangerous and actually abused during our attacks 2148.37s - 2151.45s | are pages right, pull requests right, and packages right. 2151.45s - 2152.89s | And there's a lot of good documentation online 2152.89s - 2156.17s | if you wanna learn more about what these actually do. 2156.17s - 2158.13s | If you have just actions right and contents right, 2158.13s - 2159.81s | you can create feature branches, 2159.81s - 2161.69s | modify files, execute in workflows, 2161.69s - 2164.33s | and then issue dispatches events to steal secrets. 2164.33s - 2165.25s | If that looks familiar, 2165.25s - 2168.33s | it's because that's exactly what we did during PyTorch. 2168.33s - 2170.65s | All right, what if you have a workflow 2170.65s - 2171.49s | that looks like this? 2171.49s - 2172.79s | It runs on workflow dispatch, 2172.79s - 2174.33s | but then uses some of that input 2174.33s - 2176.01s | in a GitHub script or run step. 2176.01s - 2179.73s | Well, this lets you do good old 90s style code injection. 2179.73s - 2181.45s | And I'm gonna walk you through how this process works. 2181.45s - 2183.77s | And you only need a GitHub token actions right 2183.77s - 2185.53s | to make this hop. 2185.53s - 2189.33s | So here you can see that the input from the dispatch event 2189.33s - 2190.61s | has org and repository. 2190.61s - 2192.13s | And within that script step, 2192.13s - 2195.13s | repository is used by GitHub context expression. 2195.13s - 2197.65s | So that's going to be our injection point there. 2197.65s - 2198.77s | See that arrow. 2198.77s - 2201.01s | So here's an example payload thrown 2201.01s - 2203.65s | with a simple request script in Python. 2203.65s - 2206.41s | The first thing here is to close out the script 2206.41s - 2208.49s |


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All right, what if you have a workflow 2170.65s - 2171.49s | that looks like this? 2171.49s - 2172.79s | It runs on workflow dispatch, 2172.79s - 2174.33s | but then uses some of that input 2174.33s - 2176.01s | in a GitHub script or run step. 2176.01s - 2179.73s | Well, this lets you do good old 90s style code injection. 2179.73s - 2181.45s | And I'm gonna walk you through how this process works. 2181.45s - 2183.77s | And you only need a GitHub token actions right 2183.77s - 2185.53s | to make this hop. 2185.53s - 2189.33s | So here you can see that the input from the dispatch event 2189.33s - 2190.61s | has org and repository. 2190.61s - 2192.13s | And within that script step, 2192.13s - 2195.13s | repository is used by GitHub context expression. 2195.13s - 2197.65s | So that's going to be our injection point there. 2197.65s - 2198.77s | See that arrow. 2198.77s - 2201.01s | So here's an example payload thrown 2201.01s - 2203.65s | with a simple request script in Python. 2203.65s - 2206.41s | The first thing here is to close out the script 2206.41s - 2208.49s | because we don't want a syntax error or have it to crash 2208.49s - 2210.17s | because we still need the code to finish 2210.17s - 2213.29s | in order for us to get our payload execution. 2213.29s - 2215.97s | The next thing, and this is where the actual payload is, 2215.97s - 2219.33s | is a JavaScript injection payload 2219.33s - 2224.33s | that essentially will pull code from a C2 URL 2224.45s - 2225.73s | and pipe it to bash. 2225.73s - 2228.01s | So then you can just have arbitrary code there 2228.01s - 2230.07s | and get execution in that workflow, 2230.07s - 2231.45s | get the token, get the secrets. 2231.45s - 2237.89s | And then from there, do more post exploitation. 2237.89s - 2239.63s | If you only have contents right, 2239.63s - 2241.63s | there's still a lot of bad stuff you can do. 2241.63s - 2244.39s | You can modify non-protected branches a lot of times, 2244.39s - 2246.87s | which actually could end up in releases. 2246.87s - 2248.39s | You can modify releases directly 2248.39s - 2250.33s | like we did when we signed my name. 2250.33s - 2251.47s


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because we don't want a syntax error or have it to crash 2208.49s - 2210.17s | because we still need the code to finish 2210.17s - 2213.29s | in order for us to get our payload execution. 2213.29s - 2215.97s | The next thing, and this is where the actual payload is, 2215.97s - 2219.33s | is a JavaScript injection payload 2219.33s - 2224.33s | that essentially will pull code from a C2 URL 2224.45s - 2225.73s | and pipe it to bash. 2225.73s - 2228.01s | So then you can just have arbitrary code there 2228.01s - 2230.07s | and get execution in that workflow, 2230.07s - 2231.45s | get the token, get the secrets. 2231.45s - 2237.89s | And then from there, do more post exploitation. 2237.89s - 2239.63s | If you only have contents right, 2239.63s - 2241.63s | there's still a lot of bad stuff you can do. 2241.63s - 2244.39s | You can modify non-protected branches a lot of times, 2244.39s - 2246.87s | which actually could end up in releases. 2246.87s - 2248.39s | You can modify releases directly 2248.39s - 2250.33s | like we did when we signed my name. 2250.33s - 2251.47s | You can modify tags, 2251.47s - 2253.95s | which a lot of times reusable actions are referenced by tags 2253.95s - 2256.75s | so that could open up some fun possibilities. 2256.75s - 2259.11s | And then you can also issue repository dispatch events 2259.11s - 2260.45s | to execute workflows. 2261.71s - 2263.35s | All right, here's a really unique way 2263.35s - 2266.07s | to take advantage of contents right. 2266.07s - 2269.43s | All right, so one way is if you want to get execution 2269.43s - 2271.91s | on a workflow that only runs on the push trigger, 2271.91s - 2274.75s | you can add code to that, 2274.75s - 2277.35s | a feature branch that modifies a script 2277.35s - 2279.15s | that's called by that workflow. 2279.15s - 2281.21s | And the next time the developer will push changes, 2281.21s - 2283.47s | now you have arbitrary code execution 2283.47s - 2284.99s | within the context of that workflow. 2284.99s - 2287.47s | And then you can jump further from there. 2287.47s - 2289.81s | Another way is instead of targeting the workflows, 2289.81s - 2291.11s | why not target the developer? 2291.11s


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| You can modify tags, 2251.47s - 2253.95s | which a lot of times reusable actions are referenced by tags 2253.95s - 2256.75s | so that could open up some fun possibilities. 2256.75s - 2259.11s | And then you can also issue repository dispatch events 2259.11s - 2260.45s | to execute workflows. 2261.71s - 2263.35s | All right, here's a really unique way 2263.35s - 2266.07s | to take advantage of contents right. 2266.07s - 2269.43s | All right, so one way is if you want to get execution 2269.43s - 2271.91s | on a workflow that only runs on the push trigger, 2271.91s - 2274.75s | you can add code to that, 2274.75s - 2277.35s | a feature branch that modifies a script 2277.35s - 2279.15s | that's called by that workflow. 2279.15s - 2281.21s | And the next time the developer will push changes, 2281.21s - 2283.47s | now you have arbitrary code execution 2283.47s - 2284.99s | within the context of that workflow. 2284.99s - 2287.47s | And then you can jump further from there. 2287.47s - 2289.81s | Another way is instead of targeting the workflows, 2289.81s - 2291.11s | why not target the developer? 2291.11s - 2293.23s | So you could modify a unit test 2293.23s - 2296.95s | within a feature branch that a developer is working on 2296.95s - 2298.91s | and add an info stealer payload. 2299.59s - 2301.15s | Then when the workflow runs, 2301.15s - 2302.43s | the dev accounts compromised 2302.43s - 2304.21s | and often in organizations, 2304.21s - 2306.51s | dev compromise can be game over. 2306.51s - 2309.35s | Another way is if you have these two permissions 2309.35s - 2310.19s | for the token, 2310.19s - 2311.99s | you can get code modification 2311.99s - 2313.99s | in the protected default branch. 2313.99s - 2315.61s | So there's some preconditions here. 2315.61s - 2317.45s | The repository has to have the setting 2317.45s - 2320.63s | to allow get of actions to approve and merge pull requests. 2320.63s - 2323.51s | There can be at most one reviewer required 2323.51s - 2326.33s | for that pull request approval rule. 2326.33s - 2329.85s | And there cannot be any code owner protection rule sets 2329.85s - 2331.73s | enabled and enforced. 2331.73s - 2333.25s | When all of these are together, 2333.25s - 2335.17s | you


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- 2293.23s | So you could modify a unit test 2293.23s - 2296.95s | within a feature branch that a developer is working on 2296.95s - 2298.91s | and add an info stealer payload. 2299.59s - 2301.15s | Then when the workflow runs, 2301.15s - 2302.43s | the dev accounts compromised 2302.43s - 2304.21s | and often in organizations, 2304.21s - 2306.51s | dev compromise can be game over. 2306.51s - 2309.35s | Another way is if you have these two permissions 2309.35s - 2310.19s | for the token, 2310.19s - 2311.99s | you can get code modification 2311.99s - 2313.99s | in the protected default branch. 2313.99s - 2315.61s | So there's some preconditions here. 2315.61s - 2317.45s | The repository has to have the setting 2317.45s - 2320.63s | to allow get of actions to approve and merge pull requests. 2320.63s - 2323.51s | There can be at most one reviewer required 2323.51s - 2326.33s | for that pull request approval rule. 2326.33s - 2329.85s | And there cannot be any code owner protection rule sets 2329.85s - 2331.73s | enabled and enforced. 2331.73s - 2333.25s | When all of these are together, 2333.25s - 2335.17s | you can have attack like this. 2335.17s - 2337.61s | Attacker gets the GitHub token. 2337.61s - 2339.77s | They use their account to create a fork pull request 2339.77s - 2341.13s | with malicious changes. 2341.13s - 2343.17s | And then they approve that pull request 2343.17s - 2346.45s | with that capture token and merge that pull request. 2346.45s - 2350.99s | That leads to a good old supply chain compromise. 2350.99s - 2352.47s | Now, if you're on a runner, 2352.47s - 2355.19s | it's possible to steal the GitHub actions runtime token 2355.19s - 2356.43s | from a future workflow. 2356.43s - 2358.51s | This is where you'll have some attack bats 2358.51s - 2360.27s | for GitHub actions cache poisoning. 2360.27s - 2362.43s | And I have a blog post on my website 2362.43s - 2364.43s | that goes into the details of that. 2364.43s - 2367.77s | And if there's a organization level runner group 2367.77s - 2371.39s | that shares that also private repositories are using, 2371.39s - 2373.71s | then there's bats to jump to private repositories 2373.71s - 2374.81s | and other runner groups. 2374.81s - 2377.65s | And it just kind


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can have attack like this. 2335.17s - 2337.61s | Attacker gets the GitHub token. 2337.61s - 2339.77s | They use their account to create a fork pull request 2339.77s - 2341.13s | with malicious changes. 2341.13s - 2343.17s | And then they approve that pull request 2343.17s - 2346.45s | with that capture token and merge that pull request. 2346.45s - 2350.99s | That leads to a good old supply chain compromise. 2350.99s - 2352.47s | Now, if you're on a runner, 2352.47s - 2355.19s | it's possible to steal the GitHub actions runtime token 2355.19s - 2356.43s | from a future workflow. 2356.43s - 2358.51s | This is where you'll have some attack bats 2358.51s - 2360.27s | for GitHub actions cache poisoning. 2360.27s - 2362.43s | And I have a blog post on my website 2362.43s - 2364.43s | that goes into the details of that. 2364.43s - 2367.77s | And if there's a organization level runner group 2367.77s - 2371.39s | that shares that also private repositories are using, 2371.39s - 2373.71s | then there's bats to jump to private repositories 2373.71s - 2374.81s | and other runner groups. 2374.81s - 2377.65s | And it just kind of blows those attack bats wide open. 2378.87s - 2381.83s | Okay, that's the end of some of the more advanced TTPs. 2381.83s - 2384.31s | If you're the type of person who likes big mind maps 2384.31s - 2385.99s | to tell you exactly what to do, 2386.51s - 2388.71s | I made one and I put it on my GitHub a few days ago. 2388.71s - 2389.91s | So you can go check that out. 2389.91s - 2391.71s | Obviously this is not comprehensive, 2391.71s - 2394.63s | but if you're trying to get into GitHub actions exploitation 2394.63s - 2396.99s | and you have read or write access to a repo, 2396.99s - 2399.71s | but don't really know what to look for or what to do next, 2399.71s - 2400.55s | check this out. 2400.55s - 2403.19s | It should be able to give you some good guidance. 2403.19s - 2405.21s | In our opinion, GitHub can do a few things better. 2405.21s - 2406.77s | They can increase warnings and awareness. 2406.77s - 2410.15s | So if you try to attach a selfless runner to a public repo, 2410.15s - 2412.15s | it'd be great


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of blows those attack bats wide open. 2378.87s - 2381.83s | Okay, that's the end of some of the more advanced TTPs. 2381.83s - 2384.31s | If you're the type of person who likes big mind maps 2384.31s - 2385.99s | to tell you exactly what to do, 2386.51s - 2388.71s | I made one and I put it on my GitHub a few days ago. 2388.71s - 2389.91s | So you can go check that out. 2389.91s - 2391.71s | Obviously this is not comprehensive, 2391.71s - 2394.63s | but if you're trying to get into GitHub actions exploitation 2394.63s - 2396.99s | and you have read or write access to a repo, 2396.99s - 2399.71s | but don't really know what to look for or what to do next, 2399.71s - 2400.55s | check this out. 2400.55s - 2403.19s | It should be able to give you some good guidance. 2403.19s - 2405.21s | In our opinion, GitHub can do a few things better. 2405.21s - 2406.77s | They can increase warnings and awareness. 2406.77s - 2410.15s | So if you try to attach a selfless runner to a public repo, 2410.15s - 2412.15s | it'd be great if there were big red letters saying, 2412.15s - 2413.43s | be careful, this is dangerous. 2413.43s - 2415.47s | They can also improve their secure defaults. 2415.47s - 2417.99s | Like we talked about with the workflow approval requirements 2417.99s - 2421.03s | and then they could implement granular approval requirements 2421.03s - 2423.63s | so that maintainers don't need to select 2423.63s - 2426.99s | between three options, all of which have broad privileges 2426.99s - 2429.39s | and probably will hurt developer workflows 2429.39s - 2430.43s | one way or the other. 2431.51s - 2432.99s | If you're trying to defend your organization 2432.99s - 2435.55s | from these attacks, start with the easy stuff. 2435.55s - 2438.55s | Please change this radio button so that you require approval 2438.55s - 2440.75s | for all outside collaborators. 2440.75s - 2442.61s | We use the GitHub token extensively 2442.61s - 2444.05s | in almost all of our attacks. 2444.05s - 2445.85s | Set it to read only. 2445.85s - 2448.45s | That will stop a lot of post-exploitation opportunities. 2448.45s - 2450.89s | And then force your devs to use 2450.89s - 2452.37s | fine-grain personal access tokens.


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if there were big red letters saying, 2412.15s - 2413.43s | be careful, this is dangerous. 2413.43s - 2415.47s | They can also improve their secure defaults. 2415.47s - 2417.99s | Like we talked about with the workflow approval requirements 2417.99s - 2421.03s | and then they could implement granular approval requirements 2421.03s - 2423.63s | so that maintainers don't need to select 2423.63s - 2426.99s | between three options, all of which have broad privileges 2426.99s - 2429.39s | and probably will hurt developer workflows 2429.39s - 2430.43s | one way or the other. 2431.51s - 2432.99s | If you're trying to defend your organization 2432.99s - 2435.55s | from these attacks, start with the easy stuff. 2435.55s - 2438.55s | Please change this radio button so that you require approval 2438.55s - 2440.75s | for all outside collaborators. 2440.75s - 2442.61s | We use the GitHub token extensively 2442.61s - 2444.05s | in almost all of our attacks. 2444.05s - 2445.85s | Set it to read only. 2445.85s - 2448.45s | That will stop a lot of post-exploitation opportunities. 2448.45s - 2450.89s | And then force your devs to use 2450.89s - 2452.37s | fine-grain personal access tokens. 2452.37s - 2455.55s | We hate discovering fine-grain tokens 2455.55s - 2458.49s | on red team engagements because they only give you access 2458.49s - 2459.45s | to one repository. 2459.45s - 2462.01s | If we find a personal access token, that's classic. 2462.01s - 2463.09s | We can do a lot of stuff. 2463.09s - 2466.01s | If it's fine-grain, sometimes that's the end of the road. 2466.95s - 2470.07s | All right, there's also ways to secure yourself more 2470.07s - 2472.79s | by making sure that your self-hosted runners are ephemeral. 2472.79s - 2474.39s | So GitHub maintains something 2474.39s - 2475.65s | called Actions Runner Controller, 2475.65s - 2478.51s | which allows you to automatically spin up and spin down 2478.51s - 2480.63s | self-hosted runners using Kubernetes. 2480.63s - 2483.23s | Also, a lot of cloud providers have auto-scaling groups 2483.23s - 2485.43s | that can be linked with self-hosted runners 2485.43s - 2487.99s | and have that also be done automatically. 2487.99s - 2490.11s | And finally, there's a lot of third parties 2490.11s - 2493.53s | that offer turnkey drop-in replacements 2493.53s - 2496.23s | for GitHub runners that are also ephemeral 2496.23s


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2452.37s - 2455.55s | We hate discovering fine-grain tokens 2455.55s - 2458.49s | on red team engagements because they only give you access 2458.49s - 2459.45s | to one repository. 2459.45s - 2462.01s | If we find a personal access token, that's classic. 2462.01s - 2463.09s | We can do a lot of stuff. 2463.09s - 2466.01s | If it's fine-grain, sometimes that's the end of the road. 2466.95s - 2470.07s | All right, there's also ways to secure yourself more 2470.07s - 2472.79s | by making sure that your self-hosted runners are ephemeral. 2472.79s - 2474.39s | So GitHub maintains something 2474.39s - 2475.65s | called Actions Runner Controller, 2475.65s - 2478.51s | which allows you to automatically spin up and spin down 2478.51s - 2480.63s | self-hosted runners using Kubernetes. 2480.63s - 2483.23s | Also, a lot of cloud providers have auto-scaling groups 2483.23s - 2485.43s | that can be linked with self-hosted runners 2485.43s - 2487.99s | and have that also be done automatically. 2487.99s - 2490.11s | And finally, there's a lot of third parties 2490.11s - 2493.53s | that offer turnkey drop-in replacements 2493.53s - 2496.23s | for GitHub runners that are also ephemeral 2496.23s - 2499.11s | if you don't want to use just the GitHub-hosted runners. 2499.11s - 2501.95s | And one thing that's important to remember here 2501.95s - 2504.63s | is that ephemeral means the environment 2504.63s - 2506.65s | that the runner is in also has to be ephemeral. 2506.65s - 2508.39s | So if there's an ephemeral runner, 2508.39s - 2511.23s | but it's using a non-ephemeral file share, 2511.23s - 2514.35s | then attacker can simply jump to other workflows 2514.35s - 2516.43s | by saving certain files off. 2516.43s - 2519.07s | So it's important to really consider the entirety 2519.07s - 2522.91s | of that environment when it comes to build agent security. 2524.07s - 2526.83s | All right, so another way is by using GitHub's feature 2526.83s - 2528.41s | for runner group pinning. 2528.45s - 2531.53s | So GitHub has a feature where if you have a runner group, 2531.53s - 2534.09s | you can actually pin it to a specific workflow 2534.09s - 2537.01s | or even a specific SHA or reference of a workflow. 2537.01s - 2539.93s | So with this, you have a lot of different options 2539.93s - 2542.41s |


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- 2499.11s | if you don't want to use just the GitHub-hosted runners. 2499.11s - 2501.95s | And one thing that's important to remember here 2501.95s - 2504.63s | is that ephemeral means the environment 2504.63s - 2506.65s | that the runner is in also has to be ephemeral. 2506.65s - 2508.39s | So if there's an ephemeral runner, 2508.39s - 2511.23s | but it's using a non-ephemeral file share, 2511.23s - 2514.35s | then attacker can simply jump to other workflows 2514.35s - 2516.43s | by saving certain files off. 2516.43s - 2519.07s | So it's important to really consider the entirety 2519.07s - 2522.91s | of that environment when it comes to build agent security. 2524.07s - 2526.83s | All right, so another way is by using GitHub's feature 2526.83s - 2528.41s | for runner group pinning. 2528.45s - 2531.53s | So GitHub has a feature where if you have a runner group, 2531.53s - 2534.09s | you can actually pin it to a specific workflow 2534.09s - 2537.01s | or even a specific SHA or reference of a workflow. 2537.01s - 2539.93s | So with this, you have a lot of different options 2539.93s - 2542.41s | to restrict which workflows can even use the runner. 2542.41s - 2544.37s | And all of this has the ultimate effect 2544.37s - 2546.69s | of protecting your most privileged runners. 2547.63s - 2550.29s | We want to end our talk today by emphasizing 2550.29s - 2553.37s | that this talk and this research is not about PyTorch. 2553.37s - 2555.55s | So we have some key takeaways here. 2555.55s - 2558.17s | If you've been zoning out, lock in for this last slide. 2558.81s - 2561.13s | What we did to PyTorch, we've been able to do 2561.13s - 2563.93s | to a lot of advanced, mature organizations 2563.93s - 2565.37s | because of this lack of awareness 2565.37s - 2566.81s | around CICD agent security. 2566.81s - 2569.69s | So I think we submitted over 20 high and critical 2569.69s - 2570.97s | bug bounty submissions. 2570.97s - 2572.45s | Among them were critical vulnerabilities 2572.45s - 2575.89s | in GitHub Actions, Microsoft, PyTorch, TensorFlow, 2575.89s - 2579.59s | ASTAR, HydroGX, ByteDance, and a lot more 2579.59s - 2582.13s | that we're not allowed to talk about. 2582.13s - 2585.21s | Additionally, if you think that public CICD


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to restrict which workflows can even use the runner. 2542.41s - 2544.37s | And all of this has the ultimate effect 2544.37s - 2546.69s | of protecting your most privileged runners. 2547.63s - 2550.29s | We want to end our talk today by emphasizing 2550.29s - 2553.37s | that this talk and this research is not about PyTorch. 2553.37s - 2555.55s | So we have some key takeaways here. 2555.55s - 2558.17s | If you've been zoning out, lock in for this last slide. 2558.81s - 2561.13s | What we did to PyTorch, we've been able to do 2561.13s - 2563.93s | to a lot of advanced, mature organizations 2563.93s - 2565.37s | because of this lack of awareness 2565.37s - 2566.81s | around CICD agent security. 2566.81s - 2569.69s | So I think we submitted over 20 high and critical 2569.69s - 2570.97s | bug bounty submissions. 2570.97s - 2572.45s | Among them were critical vulnerabilities 2572.45s - 2575.89s | in GitHub Actions, Microsoft, PyTorch, TensorFlow, 2575.89s - 2579.59s | ASTAR, HydroGX, ByteDance, and a lot more 2579.59s - 2582.13s | that we're not allowed to talk about. 2582.13s - 2585.21s | Additionally, if you think that public CICD security is bad, 2585.21s - 2588.33s | internal CICD security is a nightmare. 2588.33s - 2592.27s | Almost not every red team engagement I've been on, 2592.27s - 2594.25s | but a lot of red team engagements were able 2594.25s - 2596.37s | to get access to a CICD platform 2596.37s - 2598.93s | and then escalate privileges and use it to reach objective. 2598.93s - 2601.05s | It's almost become the new ADCS for us 2601.05s - 2603.11s | where internally everyone's vulnerable 2603.11s - 2605.47s | and compromising these CICD platforms 2605.47s - 2607.65s | can give you extensive privileges. 2608.57s - 2609.77s | Finally, what we need everyone to do 2609.77s - 2611.27s | is go learn about these attacks 2611.27s - 2612.81s | to protect your org from compromise. 2612.81s - 2615.09s | The main issue we see is just this lack of awareness. 2615.61s - 2617.63s | If devs, architects, execs, and everyone 2617.63s - 2619.09s | is learning about these attacks, 2619.09s - 2620.59s | they'll be able to implement controls 2620.59s - 2622.57s | that hopefully protect their organization 2622.57s - 2625.41s | from the next critical supply chain attack. 2625.41s - 2627.09s


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security is bad, 2585.21s - 2588.33s | internal CICD security is a nightmare. 2588.33s - 2592.27s | Almost not every red team engagement I've been on, 2592.27s - 2594.25s | but a lot of red team engagements were able 2594.25s - 2596.37s | to get access to a CICD platform 2596.37s - 2598.93s | and then escalate privileges and use it to reach objective. 2598.93s - 2601.05s | It's almost become the new ADCS for us 2601.05s - 2603.11s | where internally everyone's vulnerable 2603.11s - 2605.47s | and compromising these CICD platforms 2605.47s - 2607.65s | can give you extensive privileges. 2608.57s - 2609.77s | Finally, what we need everyone to do 2609.77s - 2611.27s | is go learn about these attacks 2611.27s - 2612.81s | to protect your org from compromise. 2612.81s - 2615.09s | The main issue we see is just this lack of awareness. 2615.61s - 2617.63s | If devs, architects, execs, and everyone 2617.63s - 2619.09s | is learning about these attacks, 2619.09s - 2620.59s | they'll be able to implement controls 2620.59s - 2622.57s | that hopefully protect their organization 2622.57s - 2625.41s | from the next critical supply chain attack. 2625.41s - 2627.09s | All right, the moral of the story here 2627.09s - 2629.69s | is learn about this stuff and don't let this be you. 2633.06s - 2634.48s | All right, so we want to start off 2634.48s - 2636.94s | by thanking all of the bug bounty triage teams 2636.94s - 2638.52s | that handled some of the reports 2638.52s - 2640.94s | and handled them well and applied solid mitigations 2640.94s - 2642.26s | to their products. 2642.26s - 2643.90s | We'd like to thank everyone who showed out today. 2643.90s - 2645.14s | Thank you so much for watching us 2645.14s - 2646.34s | and helping us raise awareness 2647.06s - 2648.26s | and for everyone watching online. 2648.26s - 2649.34s | Thank you. 2649.34s - 2651.38s | We'd like to thank DEF CON for giving us this platform. 2651.38s - 2652.94s | We wanted to speak here for a long time, 2652.94s - 2654.66s | so this has been really fun. 2654.66s - 2655.96s | Please, we don't have time for questions, 2655.96s - 2658.50s | but come find us after if you want to talk more. 2658.50s - 2659.50s | Thank you, everybody. 2659.50s - 2660.34s


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| All right, the moral of the story here 2627.09s - 2629.69s | is learn about this stuff and don't let this be you. 2633.06s - 2634.48s | All right, so we want to start off 2634.48s - 2636.94s | by thanking all of the bug bounty triage teams 2636.94s - 2638.52s | that handled some of the reports 2638.52s - 2640.94s | and handled them well and applied solid mitigations 2640.94s - 2642.26s | to their products. 2642.26s - 2643.90s | We'd like to thank everyone who showed out today. 2643.90s - 2645.14s | Thank you so much for watching us 2645.14s - 2646.34s | and helping us raise awareness 2647.06s - 2648.26s | and for everyone watching online. 2648.26s - 2649.34s | Thank you. 2649.34s - 2651.38s | We'd like to thank DEF CON for giving us this platform. 2651.38s - 2652.94s | We wanted to speak here for a long time, 2652.94s - 2654.66s | so this has been really fun. 2654.66s - 2655.96s | Please, we don't have time for questions, 2655.96s - 2658.50s | but come find us after if you want to talk more. 2658.50s - 2659.50s | Thank you, everybody. 2659.50s - 2660.34s | All right.


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{ "webpage_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IrPkH7kK2I", "title": "DEF CON 32 - NTLM The Last Ride - Jim Rush, Tomais Williamson", "description": "Microsoft is planning to kill off NTLM (New Technology Lan Manager) authentication in Windows 11 and above. Let's speedrun coercing hashes out of a few more things before it fades into obscurity over the next twenty five years or so.\n\nThere will be a deep dive on several new bugs we disclosed to Microsoft (including bypassing a fix to an existing CVE), some interesting and useful techniques, combining techniques from multiple bug classes resulting in some unexpected discoveries and some absolutely cooked bugs. We\u2019ll also uncover some defaults that simply shouldn't exist in sensible libraries or applications as well as some glaring gaps in some of the Microsoft NTLM related security controls.", "channel_url": "https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6Om9kAkl32dWlDSNlDS9Iw", "duration": 1982, "channel": "DEFCONConference", "uploader": "DEFCONConference", "upload_date": "20241016" } 0.59s - 2.35s | This text was transcribed using whisper model: large-v2 Hello everyone 2.35s - 9.67s | Hello. Hi. So thanks for coming along today. We are here to talk about everyone's favorite subject from 25 years ago 11.75s - 15.43s | So a friend of mine said this to me when I told him what our research was about 16.75s - 24.11s | And yeah, it holds true. I mean Windows has got some stuff going on. So let's find out exactly how broken it is 24.75s - 27.99s | So real quickly we're from there 28.99s - 35.39s | That's a very accurate map we're from the middle of Middle-earth a little place called Wellington in New Zealand and 36.31s - 40.99s | Yeah, it was a long flight. It was too long. It was too long an economy 41.79s - 45.99s | Anyway a little bit about me. I've worked at a bunch of logos, which is very exciting 45.99s - 50.83s | I actually had a life before hacking where I used to tour a lot of bands to New Zealand 50.83s - 55.65s | So, please don't ask me about the early 2000s because I have PTSD and a lot of debt 56.65s - 63.53s | I'm also a former software developer. I'm a relatively active security researcher a few CVS in various things 63.53s - 69.05s | I'm a frequent flyer with search New Zealand, which is the cyber security emergency response team. They love me 69.33s - 71.33s | Please don't ask


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about 16.75s - 24.11s | And yeah, it holds true. I mean Windows has got some stuff going on. So let's find out exactly how broken it is 24.75s - 27.99s | So real quickly we're from there 28.99s - 35.39s | That's a very accurate map we're from the middle of Middle-earth a little place called Wellington in New Zealand and 36.31s - 40.99s | Yeah, it was a long flight. It was too long. It was too long an economy 41.79s - 45.99s | Anyway a little bit about me. I've worked at a bunch of logos, which is very exciting 45.99s - 50.83s | I actually had a life before hacking where I used to tour a lot of bands to New Zealand 50.83s - 55.65s | So, please don't ask me about the early 2000s because I have PTSD and a lot of debt 56.65s - 63.53s | I'm also a former software developer. I'm a relatively active security researcher a few CVS in various things 63.53s - 69.05s | I'm a frequent flyer with search New Zealand, which is the cyber security emergency response team. They love me 69.33s - 71.33s | Please don't ask me about council software 72.01s - 75.13s | And I'm Thomas. I have also worked at 75.89s - 81.89s | Fewer logos than Jim. I'm a little bit younger than Jim. I also do some CTF stuff and 82.69s - 89.89s | I'm also a senior security consultant. I also do research. I found a fun thing a few years ago in kite works 90.41s - 94.49s | Also did the Kramer thing with Jim a couple of slides ago 94.49s - 98.17s | Don't know if you remember and then also the Microsoft stuff in this talk 99.93s - 105.37s | So this talk is about NTLM NTLM is supposedly going away 106.37s - 107.69s | Every 107.69s - 111.77s | NTLM bug we've seen has usually been a gateway bug to something better like 112.53s - 115.73s | Usually it leads into something. That's quite nice. Sometimes a bounty 116.45s - 120.81s | It has been a absolute ride with the MSRC. They have a very hard job 120.81s - 124.77s | We met with them the other day and we did have to change some of our talk because it turns out 124.77s - 131.57s | They're


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me about council software 72.01s - 75.13s | And I'm Thomas. I have also worked at 75.89s - 81.89s | Fewer logos than Jim. I'm a little bit younger than Jim. I also do some CTF stuff and 82.69s - 89.89s | I'm also a senior security consultant. I also do research. I found a fun thing a few years ago in kite works 90.41s - 94.49s | Also did the Kramer thing with Jim a couple of slides ago 94.49s - 98.17s | Don't know if you remember and then also the Microsoft stuff in this talk 99.93s - 105.37s | So this talk is about NTLM NTLM is supposedly going away 106.37s - 107.69s | Every 107.69s - 111.77s | NTLM bug we've seen has usually been a gateway bug to something better like 112.53s - 115.73s | Usually it leads into something. That's quite nice. Sometimes a bounty 116.45s - 120.81s | It has been a absolute ride with the MSRC. They have a very hard job 120.81s - 124.77s | We met with them the other day and we did have to change some of our talk because it turns out 124.77s - 131.57s | They're actually quite nice. Yeah, when you like meet them and they've got faces and names you kind of feel a little bad. Oops 132.57s - 141.49s | Windows has an overwhelming desire to authenticate to everything that it can it just likes sending hashes out like there's no tomorrow and 142.69s - 145.93s | The Windows ecosystem is very vast and very fun 146.45s - 151.71s | So in TLM, we are not going to give it a stupid name 152.79s - 153.87s | someone 153.87s - 156.19s | could SQL I squealy and 157.75s - 159.75s | It still haunts you 160.23s - 163.27s | It stands for new technology land manager 164.23s - 168.87s | There's something about calling things new in technology. That means it's going to be around forever 169.79s - 175.63s | And it's up there with the simple and SNMP and lightweight and elder 176.15s - 182.12s | So NTLM was developed in the 90s like a few of you here 183.36s - 190.28s | It's preceded by LM and this is finally completely removed in server 2025. So it hasn't been removed yet 191.28s - 198.32s | It was intended to provide authentication


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actually quite nice. Yeah, when you like meet them and they've got faces and names you kind of feel a little bad. Oops 132.57s - 141.49s | Windows has an overwhelming desire to authenticate to everything that it can it just likes sending hashes out like there's no tomorrow and 142.69s - 145.93s | The Windows ecosystem is very vast and very fun 146.45s - 151.71s | So in TLM, we are not going to give it a stupid name 152.79s - 153.87s | someone 153.87s - 156.19s | could SQL I squealy and 157.75s - 159.75s | It still haunts you 160.23s - 163.27s | It stands for new technology land manager 164.23s - 168.87s | There's something about calling things new in technology. That means it's going to be around forever 169.79s - 175.63s | And it's up there with the simple and SNMP and lightweight and elder 176.15s - 182.12s | So NTLM was developed in the 90s like a few of you here 183.36s - 190.28s | It's preceded by LM and this is finally completely removed in server 2025. So it hasn't been removed yet 191.28s - 198.32s | It was intended to provide authentication integrity and confidentiality so far so good. This is you know, what you expect out of NTLM 199.04s - 203.40s | They've recommended not to use it since 2010. Does anyone know what year we're in now? 204.64s - 210.64s | There was a 2011 DEF CON talk that I watched called nail the coffin shut NTLM is dead 211.80s - 213.80s | It failed to die 215.36s - 217.84s | So and there are a crapload of CDs 218.80s - 220.64s | associated with this protocol 220.64s - 223.36s | So essentially at its core it is a hash of a password 224.08s - 227.56s | Also called an NT hash. It's a challenge response mechanism 227.56s - 232.76s | So the client establishes a network path and negotiates the server responds with a challenge message 232.76s - 234.76s | The client responds with an authenticate message 234.76s - 239.68s | And it does this using the NT hash and there's a couple of different flavors that we're going to be talking about which is mostly 239.68s - 246.22s | Net in TLM v1 and net in TLM v2. So on a network essentially this lets you browse file


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integrity and confidentiality so far so good. This is you know, what you expect out of NTLM 199.04s - 203.40s | They've recommended not to use it since 2010. Does anyone know what year we're in now? 204.64s - 210.64s | There was a 2011 DEF CON talk that I watched called nail the coffin shut NTLM is dead 211.80s - 213.80s | It failed to die 215.36s - 217.84s | So and there are a crapload of CDs 218.80s - 220.64s | associated with this protocol 220.64s - 223.36s | So essentially at its core it is a hash of a password 224.08s - 227.56s | Also called an NT hash. It's a challenge response mechanism 227.56s - 232.76s | So the client establishes a network path and negotiates the server responds with a challenge message 232.76s - 234.76s | The client responds with an authenticate message 234.76s - 239.68s | And it does this using the NT hash and there's a couple of different flavors that we're going to be talking about which is mostly 239.68s - 246.22s | Net in TLM v1 and net in TLM v2. So on a network essentially this lets you browse file shares and websites 246.22s - 248.22s | So 248.86s - 254.54s | Some quick definitions before we get stuck into the bugs a hash is data produced from one-way function 254.54s - 258.98s | So you don't have to pass your plaintext password around. I've been asked to localize my talk 258.98s - 263.34s | So this is essentially the equivalent of turning a cow into a hot dog. It's 263.98s - 266.06s | Expensive to get the hot dog back into the cow 267.22s - 270.18s | So UNC is the universal naming convention 270.38s - 277.62s | You know, it's slash slash thing HTTP hypertext transfer protocol and you or I the uniform resource handler 278.90s - 282.76s | So what happens if you steal one? There's kind of three things you can 283.30s - 289.90s | Brute-force it turn it back into a cletex password talk to the password cracking village about how quickly they can do it these days 290.38s - 293.14s | You can also relay it and pretend to be that person 293.70s - 297.86s | That's mainly with ntlm and ntlm v1 298.50s - 304.70s | Ntlm v2 does it sometimes just for


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shares and websites 246.22s - 248.22s | So 248.86s - 254.54s | Some quick definitions before we get stuck into the bugs a hash is data produced from one-way function 254.54s - 258.98s | So you don't have to pass your plaintext password around. I've been asked to localize my talk 258.98s - 263.34s | So this is essentially the equivalent of turning a cow into a hot dog. It's 263.98s - 266.06s | Expensive to get the hot dog back into the cow 267.22s - 270.18s | So UNC is the universal naming convention 270.38s - 277.62s | You know, it's slash slash thing HTTP hypertext transfer protocol and you or I the uniform resource handler 278.90s - 282.76s | So what happens if you steal one? There's kind of three things you can 283.30s - 289.90s | Brute-force it turn it back into a cletex password talk to the password cracking village about how quickly they can do it these days 290.38s - 293.14s | You can also relay it and pretend to be that person 293.70s - 297.86s | That's mainly with ntlm and ntlm v1 298.50s - 304.70s | Ntlm v2 does it sometimes just for fun and you can also just take a screenshot of it report it to the MSRC 305.30s - 310.21s | Have a fun conversation with them. Yeah, so 311.69s - 317.85s | We did a few minutes of googling and these are all the bugs that we found in like three minutes about ntlm 317.85s - 320.73s | There's also the morphe sector that was yesterday 321.25s - 324.25s | They went into some more ntlm stuff there, but 325.25s - 330.17s | It's a doozy. There was the Monica link one this year the windows themes file as well 330.17s - 336.33s | You could just load a theme and it would send off your hash for fun outlook sound files, which was like a zero-click RCE 336.33s - 340.01s | there was a bypass for that and then a bypass with that again, I think and 341.81s - 344.81s | Yeah, some other ones everyone's favorite petite baton 345.41s - 348.29s | So 348.29s - 354.57s | Ntlm is just a host of vulnerabilities. A lot of it is just by design. We won't fix it. I mean 355.25s - 356.77s | It's old 356.77s - 362.05s |


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fun and you can also just take a screenshot of it report it to the MSRC 305.30s - 310.21s | Have a fun conversation with them. Yeah, so 311.69s - 317.85s | We did a few minutes of googling and these are all the bugs that we found in like three minutes about ntlm 317.85s - 320.73s | There's also the morphe sector that was yesterday 321.25s - 324.25s | They went into some more ntlm stuff there, but 325.25s - 330.17s | It's a doozy. There was the Monica link one this year the windows themes file as well 330.17s - 336.33s | You could just load a theme and it would send off your hash for fun outlook sound files, which was like a zero-click RCE 336.33s - 340.01s | there was a bypass for that and then a bypass with that again, I think and 341.81s - 344.81s | Yeah, some other ones everyone's favorite petite baton 345.41s - 348.29s | So 348.29s - 354.57s | Ntlm is just a host of vulnerabilities. A lot of it is just by design. We won't fix it. I mean 355.25s - 356.77s | It's old 356.77s - 362.05s | So what they're doing is they're going to deprecate it and then eventually disable it 362.89s - 365.69s | Which is kind of fixing it, I guess 367.69s - 373.85s | Given that like half of the environments in little old New Zealand still use ntlm v1 374.25s - 376.25s | It's gonna take a long time 377.41s - 383.09s | So we have it on good authority an anonymous source at Microsoft who actually confirmed this for us 383.09s - 387.85s | And he said to us when we met them the runway for this is between 50 and 100 years 389.65s - 391.41s | So, yeah 391.41s - 396.87s | So it's going to be disabled on a future version of Windows 11. This is great 396.87s - 401.87s | And they have told us that they're stopping working on it. So it's feature complete apparently 402.51s - 407.71s | So now Windows will attempt to authenticate with Kerberos first, which is really secure and great 408.71s - 415.27s | but it still falls back to ntlm if a Kerberos negotiation doesn't happen and so it's going to be disabled in a future release and 415.75s - 419.83s


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So what they're doing is they're going to deprecate it and then eventually disable it 362.89s - 365.69s | Which is kind of fixing it, I guess 367.69s - 373.85s | Given that like half of the environments in little old New Zealand still use ntlm v1 374.25s - 376.25s | It's gonna take a long time 377.41s - 383.09s | So we have it on good authority an anonymous source at Microsoft who actually confirmed this for us 383.09s - 387.85s | And he said to us when we met them the runway for this is between 50 and 100 years 389.65s - 391.41s | So, yeah 391.41s - 396.87s | So it's going to be disabled on a future version of Windows 11. This is great 396.87s - 401.87s | And they have told us that they're stopping working on it. So it's feature complete apparently 402.51s - 407.71s | So now Windows will attempt to authenticate with Kerberos first, which is really secure and great 408.71s - 415.27s | but it still falls back to ntlm if a Kerberos negotiation doesn't happen and so it's going to be disabled in a future release and 415.75s - 419.83s | It can always be re-enabled just like ntlm v1 421.23s - 426.15s | So one of the tools we've been using is a very very well-known tool. We're not going to go too much into it 426.31s - 429.07s | This is responder the rogue authentication server 429.83s - 433.63s | Developed by algandex. Please go and flick them some money for this great tool 434.19s - 436.19s | the two ports that we 436.75s - 439.55s | Concerned with port 80 and port 445 and it provides 440.63s - 444.55s | Authentication challenges on these ports and a lot of others. It does some other cool stuff 444.55s - 449.99s | It's a very valuable pen testing tool. If you've never heard of it go run it in an internal network and brighten your sock team 450.75s - 453.15s | For our purposes. We're just going to use it to collect ashes 454.47s - 459.43s | So this current obsession with ntlm hashes started a couple of years ago 459.43s - 464.99s | I was testing an ArcGIS application. So for those of you not familiar with ArcGIS 465.59s - 472.03s | It's mapping software beloved by local


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| It can always be re-enabled just like ntlm v1 421.23s - 426.15s | So one of the tools we've been using is a very very well-known tool. We're not going to go too much into it 426.31s - 429.07s | This is responder the rogue authentication server 429.83s - 433.63s | Developed by algandex. Please go and flick them some money for this great tool 434.19s - 436.19s | the two ports that we 436.75s - 439.55s | Concerned with port 80 and port 445 and it provides 440.63s - 444.55s | Authentication challenges on these ports and a lot of others. It does some other cool stuff 444.55s - 449.99s | It's a very valuable pen testing tool. If you've never heard of it go run it in an internal network and brighten your sock team 450.75s - 453.15s | For our purposes. We're just going to use it to collect ashes 454.47s - 459.43s | So this current obsession with ntlm hashes started a couple of years ago 459.43s - 464.99s | I was testing an ArcGIS application. So for those of you not familiar with ArcGIS 465.59s - 472.03s | It's mapping software beloved by local government and I asked my workmate Ahmad if he had any tricks 472.03s - 474.91s | He was a very high-ranked bug crowd guy 474.91s - 481.07s | So, of course he did he suggested I run responder on one of our servers for a blind ssrf that we had found 482.15s - 484.15s | And we got a hash on port 80 484.55s - 487.45s | But actually is is running Java on IIS 488.45s - 496.89s | So now we wanted to speedrun in case you're wondering what RSS and actually is looks like you can specify an RSS URL for some 497.21s - 498.77s | obscure reason 498.77s - 504.01s | So yeah, I'm sorry about the ntlm bugs everyone 504.53s - 510.75s | So windows does want you to be safe. They do have some built-in protections 510.95s - 513.87s | One of them is mark of the web, which you might have seen before 514.55s - 516.59s | If you were to download a file from the internet 516.59s - 521.35s | it's it's a little flag on the document like a word document or some other things as well and 522.51s - 526.59s |


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government and I asked my workmate Ahmad if he had any tricks 472.03s - 474.91s | He was a very high-ranked bug crowd guy 474.91s - 481.07s | So, of course he did he suggested I run responder on one of our servers for a blind ssrf that we had found 482.15s - 484.15s | And we got a hash on port 80 484.55s - 487.45s | But actually is is running Java on IIS 488.45s - 496.89s | So now we wanted to speedrun in case you're wondering what RSS and actually is looks like you can specify an RSS URL for some 497.21s - 498.77s | obscure reason 498.77s - 504.01s | So yeah, I'm sorry about the ntlm bugs everyone 504.53s - 510.75s | So windows does want you to be safe. They do have some built-in protections 510.95s - 513.87s | One of them is mark of the web, which you might have seen before 514.55s - 516.59s | If you were to download a file from the internet 516.59s - 521.35s | it's it's a little flag on the document like a word document or some other things as well and 522.51s - 526.59s | Basically, it just says nah, I'm not gonna use all of the features 526.59s - 532.27s | I'm just gonna let you like briefly look at it. You can click the little warning to make it go away, but it's safe 533.67s - 540.67s | The wordpad issue that I mentioned earlier that just bypassed it. I don't think they even had mark of the web on wordpad files 540.67s - 542.67s | Oh, no, no 542.67s - 549.39s | And also if you get clone something and there's a document in it it also just doesn't sit the flag it's great 550.71s - 552.63s | They also have 552.63s - 555.67s | This from what Windows NT days 556.87s - 560.55s | They're called safe zones. This is a recent screenshot Thomas 560.55s - 565.35s | Yeah, this is from Windows 11 as you can see with the little X's in the top right hand corners 565.35s - 567.35s | Yeah 567.55s - 573.75s | You can see that because it says scripting of Java outlets, it's very up-to-date and protects you against many things 574.67s - 579.61s | The little thing down the bottom with the user authentication


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Basically, it just says nah, I'm not gonna use all of the features 526.59s - 532.27s | I'm just gonna let you like briefly look at it. You can click the little warning to make it go away, but it's safe 533.67s - 540.67s | The wordpad issue that I mentioned earlier that just bypassed it. I don't think they even had mark of the web on wordpad files 540.67s - 542.67s | Oh, no, no 542.67s - 549.39s | And also if you get clone something and there's a document in it it also just doesn't sit the flag it's great 550.71s - 552.63s | They also have 552.63s - 555.67s | This from what Windows NT days 556.87s - 560.55s | They're called safe zones. This is a recent screenshot Thomas 560.55s - 565.35s | Yeah, this is from Windows 11 as you can see with the little X's in the top right hand corners 565.35s - 567.35s | Yeah 567.55s - 573.75s | You can see that because it says scripting of Java outlets, it's very up-to-date and protects you against many things 574.67s - 579.61s | The little thing down the bottom with the user authentication it stops some hashes 580.39s - 582.39s | Over port 445, but that's about it 583.23s - 587.95s | So it's time to query some hashes from some software before NTLM goes away 588.75s - 591.75s | So we're going to talk about a few things image magic and graphics magic 592.39s - 596.41s | Vlc media player espos.net hi Q PDF 596.91s - 601.23s | The Q stands for quality as we find out Java on is and Windows 601.83s - 609.83s | calendars new get an eye credential irises feeds and Outlook MS Office URI handlers and Outlook and get full windows 610.71s - 611.99s | so 611.99s - 618.83s | Graphics magic is generally regarded as the safe one because it's a relatively fuzzed fork of image magic. So 619.39s - 621.39s | It's a massive attack surface 621.99s - 626.75s | Image magic is generally associated with image tragic, which everyone will remember from a few years ago 627.91s - 631.15s | But graph image magic didn't make a hash over port 445 632.15s - 637.47s | So it will leak a hash by SVG converting to anything by our UNC path href 637.47s - 643.63s


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it stops some hashes 580.39s - 582.39s | Over port 445, but that's about it 583.23s - 587.95s | So it's time to query some hashes from some software before NTLM goes away 588.75s - 591.75s | So we're going to talk about a few things image magic and graphics magic 592.39s - 596.41s | Vlc media player espos.net hi Q PDF 596.91s - 601.23s | The Q stands for quality as we find out Java on is and Windows 601.83s - 609.83s | calendars new get an eye credential irises feeds and Outlook MS Office URI handlers and Outlook and get full windows 610.71s - 611.99s | so 611.99s - 618.83s | Graphics magic is generally regarded as the safe one because it's a relatively fuzzed fork of image magic. So 619.39s - 621.39s | It's a massive attack surface 621.99s - 626.75s | Image magic is generally associated with image tragic, which everyone will remember from a few years ago 627.91s - 631.15s | But graph image magic didn't make a hash over port 445 632.15s - 637.47s | So it will leak a hash by SVG converting to anything by our UNC path href 637.47s - 643.63s | And it's noted in the documentation is SSRF, but there is nothing about hashes or UNC paths 646.19s - 648.19s | Vlc player so 648.55s - 653.57s | You can just load a playlist file and it's got a UNC path in it and it will go away and fetch the hash 654.43s - 662.03s | Our workmate Ahmed he disclosed that and then VLC were like it's a Windows problem. No, it's a VLC problem 662.03s - 665.31s | I mean, it's also a Windows problem, but come on guys 666.27s - 671.55s | You could also do it in iTunes and Windows Media Player. I'm sorry if you still use those programs 672.07s - 677.59s | There's probably maybe six of you in the audience that still use Windows Media Player and iTunes for Windows. I'm sorry 678.19s - 682.75s | There's also lots of other formats and protocols that may or may not support NTLM 682.75s - 686.23s | I mean, I'd tell you to go and look at them, but VLC don't care 686.83s - 690.49s | so I suppose dotnet is a 691.13s - 697.05s | Lovely piece of document processing software anyone who's


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| And it's noted in the documentation is SSRF, but there is nothing about hashes or UNC paths 646.19s - 648.19s | Vlc player so 648.55s - 653.57s | You can just load a playlist file and it's got a UNC path in it and it will go away and fetch the hash 654.43s - 662.03s | Our workmate Ahmed he disclosed that and then VLC were like it's a Windows problem. No, it's a VLC problem 662.03s - 665.31s | I mean, it's also a Windows problem, but come on guys 666.27s - 671.55s | You could also do it in iTunes and Windows Media Player. I'm sorry if you still use those programs 672.07s - 677.59s | There's probably maybe six of you in the audience that still use Windows Media Player and iTunes for Windows. I'm sorry 678.19s - 682.75s | There's also lots of other formats and protocols that may or may not support NTLM 682.75s - 686.23s | I mean, I'd tell you to go and look at them, but VLC don't care 686.83s - 690.49s | so I suppose dotnet is a 691.13s - 697.05s | Lovely piece of document processing software anyone who's ever spent any time on the red team or doing any kind of pen testing will know 697.05s - 703.05s | Just how rich and attack surface document processing is it has a few known documented security issues 704.05s - 710.13s | SSRF, server-side request forgery, NTLM hash leakage, file inclusion and it's right there on their web application 710.77s - 715.67s | Security when loading resources page so they know about them and they have front-footed it 717.25s - 722.89s | So leaking hashes out port 4.5 is relatively abundant and low value within an ecosystem 723.29s - 729.57s | So port 4.4.5 any good system administrator will block this port on a firewall because there's no reason that it needs to talk to 729.57s - 732.85s | The internet port 80. However is not as blocked 733.05s - 738.49s | So when Windows sees a UNC path those little slashes we saw before it only knows how to do one thing 738.49s - 743.57s | And it takes a little bit of work to get it out by HTTP. So let's try 744.69s - 751.57s | So I just wanted to look at the district plan for our


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ever spent any time on the red team or doing any kind of pen testing will know 697.05s - 703.05s | Just how rich and attack surface document processing is it has a few known documented security issues 704.05s - 710.13s | SSRF, server-side request forgery, NTLM hash leakage, file inclusion and it's right there on their web application 710.77s - 715.67s | Security when loading resources page so they know about them and they have front-footed it 717.25s - 722.89s | So leaking hashes out port 4.5 is relatively abundant and low value within an ecosystem 723.29s - 729.57s | So port 4.4.5 any good system administrator will block this port on a firewall because there's no reason that it needs to talk to 729.57s - 732.85s | The internet port 80. However is not as blocked 733.05s - 738.49s | So when Windows sees a UNC path those little slashes we saw before it only knows how to do one thing 738.49s - 743.57s | And it takes a little bit of work to get it out by HTTP. So let's try 744.69s - 751.57s | So I just wanted to look at the district plan for our city and not go to the cybersecurity emergency response team 752.13s - 755.25s | So there's a piece of software in Aotearoa New Zealand called ISO plan 755.85s - 757.85s | Developed by a company called ISOVIST 758.17s - 761.09s | So again, I alluded to not talking to me about council software 761.29s - 766.77s | It's so niche and weird and the people who develop it know councils and local government 766.81s - 769.29s | but they might not necessarily know security and 769.97s - 773.57s | Anyone who's able to spend time as a pen tester so much of it is vibes based 773.57s - 776.13s | You could tell that this thing had been pen tested before 776.65s - 778.65s | And you yeah, you could just tell 779.45s - 782.85s | So headless PDF generation is so dumb 783.25s - 788.53s | I'm not this is not a talk about headless PDF generation. It's a well-known and well documented attack 789.09s - 794.13s | Surface within web applications, but sometimes you need to turn HTML into PDFs 794.69s - 795.81s | Which is you know 795.81s - 797.89s | There's a few well-known places you


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city and not go to the cybersecurity emergency response team 752.13s - 755.25s | So there's a piece of software in Aotearoa New Zealand called ISO plan 755.85s - 757.85s | Developed by a company called ISOVIST 758.17s - 761.09s | So again, I alluded to not talking to me about council software 761.29s - 766.77s | It's so niche and weird and the people who develop it know councils and local government 766.81s - 769.29s | but they might not necessarily know security and 769.97s - 773.57s | Anyone who's able to spend time as a pen tester so much of it is vibes based 773.57s - 776.13s | You could tell that this thing had been pen tested before 776.65s - 778.65s | And you yeah, you could just tell 779.45s - 782.85s | So headless PDF generation is so dumb 783.25s - 788.53s | I'm not this is not a talk about headless PDF generation. It's a well-known and well documented attack 789.09s - 794.13s | Surface within web applications, but sometimes you need to turn HTML into PDFs 794.69s - 795.81s | Which is you know 795.81s - 797.89s | There's a few well-known places you can look for bugs 798.09s - 804.33s | Because basically HTML gives you a lot of primitives to do some fun and dangerous things such as iframes portals and beads 804.57s - 808.49s | So these had all been blocked there had been some hardening done, which is great 809.49s - 812.33s | However cat pictures were not blocked 813.57s - 819.81s | so I managed to get an image tag to give up an NTLM hash on port 80 and 820.97s - 824.41s | So my first question was what even is this? 826.05s - 828.17s | So we talked about haiku PDF 829.01s - 837.09s | Over a million downloads in nougat for this package nougat is the package repo for dotnet. It has a settings dot XML file and 837.81s - 841.81s | The default property for NTLM authentication is true 842.33s - 848.45s | so I guess I really just wanted to know how this happened and then I looked into it a bit and 848.85s - 850.85s | I figured out how it happened 851.45s - 857.21s | You can tell it's really high quality by the 3d rendered box art. This is the very


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can look for bugs 798.09s - 804.33s | Because basically HTML gives you a lot of primitives to do some fun and dangerous things such as iframes portals and beads 804.57s - 808.49s | So these had all been blocked there had been some hardening done, which is great 809.49s - 812.33s | However cat pictures were not blocked 813.57s - 819.81s | so I managed to get an image tag to give up an NTLM hash on port 80 and 820.97s - 824.41s | So my first question was what even is this? 826.05s - 828.17s | So we talked about haiku PDF 829.01s - 837.09s | Over a million downloads in nougat for this package nougat is the package repo for dotnet. It has a settings dot XML file and 837.81s - 841.81s | The default property for NTLM authentication is true 842.33s - 848.45s | so I guess I really just wanted to know how this happened and then I looked into it a bit and 848.85s - 850.85s | I figured out how it happened 851.45s - 857.21s | You can tell it's really high quality by the 3d rendered box art. This is the very height of technology 857.69s - 865.73s | So the other thing we found is because of all the ArcGIS stuff Java on is is a lovely place to look 866.21s - 870.21s | The HTTP URL connection function used to pass hashes by default 870.57s - 875.69s | We're not entirely sure it does now and I tried a couple of chess projects to see it seems to be safe 875.85s - 880.09s | But it is still out there causing issues see geo server and ArcGIS 880.61s - 886.53s | So Java calls the underlying win32 API, which is a win HTTP request and blazing for sick 886.89s - 893.61s | Have a very good write-up about coaxing things out on port 80 and they even made a stack overflow post proving it 894.13s - 901.66s | We had to do a little Lord of the Rings mean, you know, it's compulsory we're from New Zealand we have to 903.32s - 904.36s | So 904.36s - 909.72s | They also have one other little security thing on Windows and that's this 910.48s - 916.40s | Prompt that comes up now and then and it's like please don't quit me.


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height of technology 857.69s - 865.73s | So the other thing we found is because of all the ArcGIS stuff Java on is is a lovely place to look 866.21s - 870.21s | The HTTP URL connection function used to pass hashes by default 870.57s - 875.69s | We're not entirely sure it does now and I tried a couple of chess projects to see it seems to be safe 875.85s - 880.09s | But it is still out there causing issues see geo server and ArcGIS 880.61s - 886.53s | So Java calls the underlying win32 API, which is a win HTTP request and blazing for sick 886.89s - 893.61s | Have a very good write-up about coaxing things out on port 80 and they even made a stack overflow post proving it 894.13s - 901.66s | We had to do a little Lord of the Rings mean, you know, it's compulsory we're from New Zealand we have to 903.32s - 904.36s | So 904.36s - 909.72s | They also have one other little security thing on Windows and that's this 910.48s - 916.40s | Prompt that comes up now and then and it's like please don't quit me. It's unsafe. Do you really want to continue? 916.60s - 922.48s | Are you sure you want to get hacked and then I'm sure no one clicks. Yes ever, right, right? It's a security drone 922.84s - 925.52s | I mean, it's fair. That's probably what their lawyers want 925.52s - 931.84s | Like they want the functionality but their lawyers are like if you don't have this prompt people get angry and we could get sued 932.60s - 937.84s | So if you want to have a bug in a Microsoft product, you need to get past this 938.44s - 945.64s | You need to have basically no warning that it's gotta be fun and dangerous and you're gonna get people's ashes or run some code 946.96s - 950.80s | So with that in mind, let's see what we can find in the Microsoft ecosystem 953.04s - 957.72s | Enter I credentials, so it's just an interface 959.68s - 962.04s | But it does some stuff 962.60s - 968.56s | When we first got some hashes are on 480. We started looking at the code and going what is this? 969.28s - 970.88s | Why is this? 970.88s -


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It's unsafe. Do you really want to continue? 916.60s - 922.48s | Are you sure you want to get hacked and then I'm sure no one clicks. Yes ever, right, right? It's a security drone 922.84s - 925.52s | I mean, it's fair. That's probably what their lawyers want 925.52s - 931.84s | Like they want the functionality but their lawyers are like if you don't have this prompt people get angry and we could get sued 932.60s - 937.84s | So if you want to have a bug in a Microsoft product, you need to get past this 938.44s - 945.64s | You need to have basically no warning that it's gotta be fun and dangerous and you're gonna get people's ashes or run some code 946.96s - 950.80s | So with that in mind, let's see what we can find in the Microsoft ecosystem 953.04s - 957.72s | Enter I credentials, so it's just an interface 959.68s - 962.04s | But it does some stuff 962.60s - 968.56s | When we first got some hashes are on 480. We started looking at the code and going what is this? 969.28s - 970.88s | Why is this? 970.88s - 972.44s | Turns out it's 972.44s - 975.08s | Not banana water. It's not gross and 975.64s - 976.80s | Made up 976.80s - 980.20s | It's just developers making logic errors doing dumb things 980.40s - 986.28s | it provides the base authentication interface for retrieving credentials for web client authentication and 987.72s - 989.88s | it's used in dotnet a lot and 990.72s - 996.24s | Some of the anti patents that it has are weird and they fall back to some dumb things 996.96s - 998.76s | like a new gate 998.76s - 1003.04s | so you've probably seen you get before if you've ever touched C sharp, it's 1003.88s - 1007.04s | Reasonably integral to the dotnet ecosystem and 1008.28s - 1010.28s | they have some very 1010.28s - 1016.40s | Good advice for storing credentials. Just put them in the new get config file. It will encrypt it. It will be fine 1016.96s - 1023.76s | But it also just falls back to NTLM sometimes. Hello. Yes, I would like 500 of my co-workers hashes, please 1024.28s - 1033.32s | It does it on new get restore by the way, which it does it when


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972.44s | Turns out it's 972.44s - 975.08s | Not banana water. It's not gross and 975.64s - 976.80s | Made up 976.80s - 980.20s | It's just developers making logic errors doing dumb things 980.40s - 986.28s | it provides the base authentication interface for retrieving credentials for web client authentication and 987.72s - 989.88s | it's used in dotnet a lot and 990.72s - 996.24s | Some of the anti patents that it has are weird and they fall back to some dumb things 996.96s - 998.76s | like a new gate 998.76s - 1003.04s | so you've probably seen you get before if you've ever touched C sharp, it's 1003.88s - 1007.04s | Reasonably integral to the dotnet ecosystem and 1008.28s - 1010.28s | they have some very 1010.28s - 1016.40s | Good advice for storing credentials. Just put them in the new get config file. It will encrypt it. It will be fine 1016.96s - 1023.76s | But it also just falls back to NTLM sometimes. Hello. Yes, I would like 500 of my co-workers hashes, please 1024.28s - 1033.32s | It does it on new get restore by the way, which it does it when you get clone something and like Visual Studio and 1034.32s - 1038.72s | That bypasses all safety checks. There's no little don't click me button 1039.32s - 1043.24s | So Jim got a nice new ebike from Microsoft. It's very zippy 1046.20s - 1049.48s | Jim had to be very specific with Microsoft 1050.92s - 1055.56s | Yeah, I had to make him a video with the breakpoint set and I had to be like it happens here 1055.56s - 1059.12s | This is where it happens happens right here Microsoft. Please believe me 1061.02s - 1062.18s | so 1062.18s - 1067.06s | Just we had a random thought like what if we reframe it as an SSR of problem? 1067.06s - 1073.30s | Like what if instead of trying to get NTLM hashes out? We pretended it was a server and not a client anymore and we just 1074.02s - 1076.38s | Thought it was just HTTP something 1076.86s - 1078.86s | There's a lot of harmless HTTP 1078.98s - 1082.62s | Interactions and Microsoft products like RSS don't know why I'm mentioning that 1083.50s - 1086.54s | You're writing schemes. Don't know why I'm mentioning that either and


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you get clone something and like Visual Studio and 1034.32s - 1038.72s | That bypasses all safety checks. There's no little don't click me button 1039.32s - 1043.24s | So Jim got a nice new ebike from Microsoft. It's very zippy 1046.20s - 1049.48s | Jim had to be very specific with Microsoft 1050.92s - 1055.56s | Yeah, I had to make him a video with the breakpoint set and I had to be like it happens here 1055.56s - 1059.12s | This is where it happens happens right here Microsoft. Please believe me 1061.02s - 1062.18s | so 1062.18s - 1067.06s | Just we had a random thought like what if we reframe it as an SSR of problem? 1067.06s - 1073.30s | Like what if instead of trying to get NTLM hashes out? We pretended it was a server and not a client anymore and we just 1074.02s - 1076.38s | Thought it was just HTTP something 1076.86s - 1078.86s | There's a lot of harmless HTTP 1078.98s - 1082.62s | Interactions and Microsoft products like RSS don't know why I'm mentioning that 1083.50s - 1086.54s | You're writing schemes. Don't know why I'm mentioning that either and 1087.38s - 1089.66s | Web service in Excel. I'm just mentioning that one 1090.26s - 1096.10s | If you think of these interactions like a flavor of SSR if you can just find some new cool things 1097.10s - 1100.98s | Like what if you just suddenly redirect a resource, so 1101.70s - 1105.90s | we did that we redirected things to a nice little UNC path and 1108.34s - 1113.46s | It just does things it just happily switches protocols and tries to auth 1114.22s - 1116.22s | browsers don't do that browsers go like 1116.90s - 1120.94s | Where are you trying to go? This is a dangerous redirect? Yeah 1121.58s - 1126.30s | But we wrote some quick little code and then started pointing things at it 1127.98s - 1130.38s | So this is Microsoft bug number two 1130.90s - 1133.90s | So we might have rabbit holed a little bit with the URI handlers 1133.90s - 1138.78s | A quick recap every time you install a program on Windows it installs a URI handler 1138.78s - 1143.86s | Which is a little scheme that you can embed in a website or something to allow that program


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1087.38s - 1089.66s | Web service in Excel. I'm just mentioning that one 1090.26s - 1096.10s | If you think of these interactions like a flavor of SSR if you can just find some new cool things 1097.10s - 1100.98s | Like what if you just suddenly redirect a resource, so 1101.70s - 1105.90s | we did that we redirected things to a nice little UNC path and 1108.34s - 1113.46s | It just does things it just happily switches protocols and tries to auth 1114.22s - 1116.22s | browsers don't do that browsers go like 1116.90s - 1120.94s | Where are you trying to go? This is a dangerous redirect? Yeah 1121.58s - 1126.30s | But we wrote some quick little code and then started pointing things at it 1127.98s - 1130.38s | So this is Microsoft bug number two 1130.90s - 1133.90s | So we might have rabbit holed a little bit with the URI handlers 1133.90s - 1138.78s | A quick recap every time you install a program on Windows it installs a URI handler 1138.78s - 1143.86s | Which is a little scheme that you can embed in a website or something to allow that program to be opened automatically 1143.86s - 1148.50s | so I dumped every single URI scheme from my Windows machine and 1148.50s - 1152.82s | I wanted to see which one Outlook would warn on and it was nearly all of them 1153.14s - 1156.66s | Except for the Microsoft URI schemes, which was very weird 1156.66s - 1160.62s | and it just straight-up opens words of Microsoft Word or Excel or 1161.22s - 1165.82s | PowerPoint or access if anyone still uses that and fetches the remote resource 1165.82s - 1170.30s | So now we have a little bit of an idea what to do when we fetch remote resources 1171.30s - 1176.26s | So no warnings one click embedded in the email should be a relatively safe thing 1176.26s - 1182.58s | So they've asked us to not spill the beans. So could anyone just like block their eyes and ears. Yeah 1183.70s - 1186.26s | There are some security controls in place 1186.26s - 1188.74s | All files will open in a preview mode, which is good 1188.74s - 1193.38s | Mark of the web is on it and you can't put UNC paths in the URI scheme


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to be opened automatically 1143.86s - 1148.50s | so I dumped every single URI scheme from my Windows machine and 1148.50s - 1152.82s | I wanted to see which one Outlook would warn on and it was nearly all of them 1153.14s - 1156.66s | Except for the Microsoft URI schemes, which was very weird 1156.66s - 1160.62s | and it just straight-up opens words of Microsoft Word or Excel or 1161.22s - 1165.82s | PowerPoint or access if anyone still uses that and fetches the remote resource 1165.82s - 1170.30s | So now we have a little bit of an idea what to do when we fetch remote resources 1171.30s - 1176.26s | So no warnings one click embedded in the email should be a relatively safe thing 1176.26s - 1182.58s | So they've asked us to not spill the beans. So could anyone just like block their eyes and ears. Yeah 1183.70s - 1186.26s | There are some security controls in place 1186.26s - 1188.74s | All files will open in a preview mode, which is good 1188.74s - 1193.38s | Mark of the web is on it and you can't put UNC paths in the URI scheme 1193.38s - 1196.34s | So you can't straight-up convince someone to load a file, which is good 1197.22s - 1201.38s | So the URI handlers essentially look like this MS Word title of the thing you want to open 1201.46s - 1205.38s | So the URI handlers essentially look like this MS Word title of the thing you want to open 1205.70s - 1212.82s | OFE open for editing you short for URL and then you just give it an HTTP link and a rush off and fetch that 1213.38s - 1217.74s | And you can also force a file extension change, which is quite fun 1218.34s - 1221.75s | And here's a little video of this happening 1223.73s - 1227.17s | So essentially we are spinning up our little redirector in the top, right? 1227.17s - 1230.29s | And then we spin up everyone's favorite hacking tool responder 1231.17s - 1234.81s | And then we just go into our email and click a link I 1235.81s - 1238.13s | Would click that link. I'll totally click that link 1239.01s - 1241.01s | And then we link someone's hash 1246.68s - 1248.68s | Thank you everyone 1248.76s - 1255.76s |


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1193.38s - 1196.34s | So you can't straight-up convince someone to load a file, which is good 1197.22s - 1201.38s | So the URI handlers essentially look like this MS Word title of the thing you want to open 1201.46s - 1205.38s | So the URI handlers essentially look like this MS Word title of the thing you want to open 1205.70s - 1212.82s | OFE open for editing you short for URL and then you just give it an HTTP link and a rush off and fetch that 1213.38s - 1217.74s | And you can also force a file extension change, which is quite fun 1218.34s - 1221.75s | And here's a little video of this happening 1223.73s - 1227.17s | So essentially we are spinning up our little redirector in the top, right? 1227.17s - 1230.29s | And then we spin up everyone's favorite hacking tool responder 1231.17s - 1234.81s | And then we just go into our email and click a link I 1235.81s - 1238.13s | Would click that link. I'll totally click that link 1239.01s - 1241.01s | And then we link someone's hash 1246.68s - 1248.68s | Thank you everyone 1248.76s - 1255.76s | So there are some much better in TLM related bugs than the ones we've been showing half a leaf from checkpoint research 1256.68s - 1258.68s | discovered a bug called Monica link and 1259.36s - 1263.68s | So this technique allows for a different and usually blocked file extension to be loaded 1264.72s - 1267.28s | So a whole new class of bug comes into play in 1268.72s - 1270.96s | 2024 Monica link came up. So we have 1271.60s - 1277.84s | Two things we have test our TF in an exclamation mark and something. So we have the file moniker and the composite moniker 1278.52s - 1282.08s | The outlook talk yesterday covered the sort of stuff a little bit as well 1282.76s - 1287.60s | So the component object model will look up whatever is after the exclamation mark 1288.12s - 1291.00s | Which we now potentially control through a redirect 1292.12s - 1295.56s | We have three days left until patch Tuesday. So have fun everyone 1296.28s - 1302.36s | So we found some more stuff. We were still bored 1303.56s - 1308.20s | You can also bypass existing CVEs with that same one weird trick


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So there are some much better in TLM related bugs than the ones we've been showing half a leaf from checkpoint research 1256.68s - 1258.68s | discovered a bug called Monica link and 1259.36s - 1263.68s | So this technique allows for a different and usually blocked file extension to be loaded 1264.72s - 1267.28s | So a whole new class of bug comes into play in 1268.72s - 1270.96s | 2024 Monica link came up. So we have 1271.60s - 1277.84s | Two things we have test our TF in an exclamation mark and something. So we have the file moniker and the composite moniker 1278.52s - 1282.08s | The outlook talk yesterday covered the sort of stuff a little bit as well 1282.76s - 1287.60s | So the component object model will look up whatever is after the exclamation mark 1288.12s - 1291.00s | Which we now potentially control through a redirect 1292.12s - 1295.56s | We have three days left until patch Tuesday. So have fun everyone 1296.28s - 1302.36s | So we found some more stuff. We were still bored 1303.56s - 1308.20s | You can also bypass existing CVEs with that same one weird trick 1308.32s - 1314.84s | So back in 2023 some researchers at Verona's discovered a nice little CVE 1315.12s - 1318.96s | There's two email headers that this sort of affected 1319.64s - 1327.00s | there's the content class sharing thing like you're sharing a document or a calendar or an RSS feed maybe and 1327.36s - 1331.32s | then a X sharing content URL, which in their case they used a 1332.32s - 1333.96s | UNC path 1333.96s - 1335.96s | We gave it a little HTTP path 1336.84s - 1343.04s | Microsoft's fix was to add a nice little warning. They love their warnings, but please don't click me little warning 1344.36s - 1347.40s | Guess what happens if you just redirect it to a UNC path? 1348.40s - 1352.32s | At Microsoft triage is it that's what happens 1353.08s - 1358.36s | And this is essentially what it looks like. It's a Microsoft instruction telling you to click a link with no warnings 1358.88s - 1362.24s | Seems kind of bad, right? I would add your calendar though 1364.32s - 1371.36s | And then we dropped it to the MSRC and we had a fun little journey 1372.92s


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1308.32s - 1314.84s | So back in 2023 some researchers at Verona's discovered a nice little CVE 1315.12s - 1318.96s | There's two email headers that this sort of affected 1319.64s - 1327.00s | there's the content class sharing thing like you're sharing a document or a calendar or an RSS feed maybe and 1327.36s - 1331.32s | then a X sharing content URL, which in their case they used a 1332.32s - 1333.96s | UNC path 1333.96s - 1335.96s | We gave it a little HTTP path 1336.84s - 1343.04s | Microsoft's fix was to add a nice little warning. They love their warnings, but please don't click me little warning 1344.36s - 1347.40s | Guess what happens if you just redirect it to a UNC path? 1348.40s - 1352.32s | At Microsoft triage is it that's what happens 1353.08s - 1358.36s | And this is essentially what it looks like. It's a Microsoft instruction telling you to click a link with no warnings 1358.88s - 1362.24s | Seems kind of bad, right? I would add your calendar though 1364.32s - 1371.36s | And then we dropped it to the MSRC and we had a fun little journey 1372.92s - 1376.80s | Hi, this is classed as important and you've accepted it for immediate servicing 1376.80s - 1379.08s | Can you please let me know if this is eligible for a bounty? 1380.28s - 1387.88s | Now outlooks out of scope. No, it says here in the link. You just said that it is in scope 1389.56s - 1391.56s | It's a moderate I guess 1392.52s - 1397.84s | You just told me that it was important in the same email. Yeah, we've reclassified it. Sorry 1399.48s - 1404.16s | Yeah, so it's fixed last patch Tuesday and it was the only moderate 1405.16s - 1408.94s | So this is my dog Lupe 1408.94s - 1416.78s | She recently had cruciate ligament surgery and the amount of the surgery was the same amount that a bug bounty from Microsoft would have been 1417.50s - 1423.90s | So, you know, thanks Microsoft. Sorry again MSRC team. You're very lovely people. It's so nice 1423.90s - 1427.62s | Oh, they also said say about the bug before that it's been feature flagged 1427.62s - 1433.74s | So it's mostly fixed but sort of not. Yeah, I had to say that because


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- 1376.80s | Hi, this is classed as important and you've accepted it for immediate servicing 1376.80s - 1379.08s | Can you please let me know if this is eligible for a bounty? 1380.28s - 1387.88s | Now outlooks out of scope. No, it says here in the link. You just said that it is in scope 1389.56s - 1391.56s | It's a moderate I guess 1392.52s - 1397.84s | You just told me that it was important in the same email. Yeah, we've reclassified it. Sorry 1399.48s - 1404.16s | Yeah, so it's fixed last patch Tuesday and it was the only moderate 1405.16s - 1408.94s | So this is my dog Lupe 1408.94s - 1416.78s | She recently had cruciate ligament surgery and the amount of the surgery was the same amount that a bug bounty from Microsoft would have been 1417.50s - 1423.90s | So, you know, thanks Microsoft. Sorry again MSRC team. You're very lovely people. It's so nice 1423.90s - 1427.62s | Oh, they also said say about the bug before that it's been feature flagged 1427.62s - 1433.74s | So it's mostly fixed but sort of not. Yeah, I had to say that because I quite like them now 1434.26s - 1441.54s | So RSS for all six of you still using it in Outlook 1441.66s - 1446.10s | We discovered something called an OPM L file which allows you to import an RSS feed 1446.10s - 1450.98s | Which is obviously critical functionality within Outlook and Microsoft 1451.78s - 1459.62s | So interestingly the web request to be made while the warning box was showing so full marks to Microsoft for almost getting there 1461.10s - 1464.58s | Outlook would also follow a redirect path to a UNC and like a hash and 1465.10s - 1470.66s | We triaged it with Microsoft and they initially said yeah, it's moderate. I said cool did that make sense? 1471.34s - 1473.38s | But now we know about these cool outlook hitters 1474.98s - 1479.46s | So what happens if we combine URI schemes with these cool new hitters that we have 1480.18s - 1483.82s | Outlook has a feed handler which will open RSS feed directly in Outlook 1484.94s - 1488.26s | Obviously four slides back. That's how we know about the URI handlers 1489.02s - 1492.78s | Under normal circumstances, it will prompt open


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I quite like them now 1434.26s - 1441.54s | So RSS for all six of you still using it in Outlook 1441.66s - 1446.10s | We discovered something called an OPM L file which allows you to import an RSS feed 1446.10s - 1450.98s | Which is obviously critical functionality within Outlook and Microsoft 1451.78s - 1459.62s | So interestingly the web request to be made while the warning box was showing so full marks to Microsoft for almost getting there 1461.10s - 1464.58s | Outlook would also follow a redirect path to a UNC and like a hash and 1465.10s - 1470.66s | We triaged it with Microsoft and they initially said yeah, it's moderate. I said cool did that make sense? 1471.34s - 1473.38s | But now we know about these cool outlook hitters 1474.98s - 1479.46s | So what happens if we combine URI schemes with these cool new hitters that we have 1480.18s - 1483.82s | Outlook has a feed handler which will open RSS feed directly in Outlook 1484.94s - 1488.26s | Obviously four slides back. That's how we know about the URI handlers 1489.02s - 1492.78s | Under normal circumstances, it will prompt open outlook and give a warning 1493.78s - 1495.78s | However, if you embed it in a sharing header 1496.38s - 1502.90s | It won't warn it was initially de-prioritized by Microsoft as several clicks were involved one click 1503.78s - 1505.86s | It's a bug but moderate 1506.38s - 1511.06s | And this is what it looks like again Microsoft wording saying please click this thing 1511.10s - 1515.58s | Would you click that time? I would so click to add your RSS feed. Thanks. I love RSS 1519.62s - 1522.66s | Enter the visual studio we went back to it again 1523.66s - 1530.90s | It can get clone things, I don't know if you're familiar with git, but it's kind of like subversion or 1531.78s - 1532.98s | Maven 1532.98s - 1534.98s | Now everyone knows good 1535.78s - 1538.50s | You can get clone from a bunch of things like SSH 1538.50s - 1541.82s | Which is one of the normal things same with like an auth HDP 1541.82s - 1545.18s | Which is like a public github repo and you've just copy paste the link 1545.66s - 1549.94s | Auth HDP like a private github repo


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outlook and give a warning 1493.78s - 1495.78s | However, if you embed it in a sharing header 1496.38s - 1502.90s | It won't warn it was initially de-prioritized by Microsoft as several clicks were involved one click 1503.78s - 1505.86s | It's a bug but moderate 1506.38s - 1511.06s | And this is what it looks like again Microsoft wording saying please click this thing 1511.10s - 1515.58s | Would you click that time? I would so click to add your RSS feed. Thanks. I love RSS 1519.62s - 1522.66s | Enter the visual studio we went back to it again 1523.66s - 1530.90s | It can get clone things, I don't know if you're familiar with git, but it's kind of like subversion or 1531.78s - 1532.98s | Maven 1532.98s - 1534.98s | Now everyone knows good 1535.78s - 1538.50s | You can get clone from a bunch of things like SSH 1538.50s - 1541.82s | Which is one of the normal things same with like an auth HDP 1541.82s - 1545.18s | Which is like a public github repo and you've just copy paste the link 1545.66s - 1549.94s | Auth HDP like a private github repo and you've copy paste the link 1550.42s - 1556.70s | You can also get clone from a file path or on Windows you can get clone from an SMB share 1557.02s - 1561.06s | Apparently, which is weird, but like it's fine. I'm sure people do that 1561.74s - 1564.62s | But we're just gonna focus on the auth HDP 1565.82s - 1570.30s | So the command line, it's secure by default. It asks for auth kind of 1571.70s - 1576.14s | But what if we just you know, don't put in a username or password? Yeah, what if Thomas let's find out 1576.14s - 1582.18s | Surely, it just doesn't send a username in any now. They won't send anything. So by default it just sends a hash of 1582.70s - 1584.70s | your current account 1587.18s - 1590.82s | But like it's fine I can see the use cases for it 1590.82s - 1597.90s | Like say you're in an internal environment and you've got like some weird web server you get clone from you probably want it most 1599.06s - 1602.92s | But what it is is it's promising like maybe some other things 1603.78s - 1605.02s


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and you've copy paste the link 1550.42s - 1556.70s | You can also get clone from a file path or on Windows you can get clone from an SMB share 1557.02s - 1561.06s | Apparently, which is weird, but like it's fine. I'm sure people do that 1561.74s - 1564.62s | But we're just gonna focus on the auth HDP 1565.82s - 1570.30s | So the command line, it's secure by default. It asks for auth kind of 1571.70s - 1576.14s | But what if we just you know, don't put in a username or password? Yeah, what if Thomas let's find out 1576.14s - 1582.18s | Surely, it just doesn't send a username in any now. They won't send anything. So by default it just sends a hash of 1582.70s - 1584.70s | your current account 1587.18s - 1590.82s | But like it's fine I can see the use cases for it 1590.82s - 1597.90s | Like say you're in an internal environment and you've got like some weird web server you get clone from you probably want it most 1599.06s - 1602.92s | But what it is is it's promising like maybe some other things 1603.78s - 1605.02s | You know 1605.02s - 1612.42s | They want to get you username and password and do stuff like GUI's. How do they get your get credentials? They prompt you for them 1613.50s - 1618.34s | Yeah, yep. No, so get credential manager. It will do things for you 1619.02s - 1621.98s | It will by default pass a blank username and password 1624.06s - 1626.26s | Visual Studio users get credential manager 1628.02s - 1629.18s | So 1629.18s - 1631.94s | On the right our good old friend responder 1632.50s - 1635.90s | That's just gonna nicely listen there and then we'll open some 1636.94s - 1640.92s | Visual Studio and then oh 1641.76s - 1646.24s | My co-worker sent me this cool link. I'm just gonna go get clone this that's on the internet 1646.24s - 1652.76s | I blindly clone things all the time. I'm a security professional Thomas. I do too a bit like seriously and 1653.72s - 1656.60s | Whoa, what's that? That's an NTLM hash that it just sent 1657.96s - 1659.52s | Yay 1659.52s - 1665.58s | So some fun side notes it also works in git submodules 1665.58s - 1673.42s | So


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| You know 1605.02s - 1612.42s | They want to get you username and password and do stuff like GUI's. How do they get your get credentials? They prompt you for them 1613.50s - 1618.34s | Yeah, yep. No, so get credential manager. It will do things for you 1619.02s - 1621.98s | It will by default pass a blank username and password 1624.06s - 1626.26s | Visual Studio users get credential manager 1628.02s - 1629.18s | So 1629.18s - 1631.94s | On the right our good old friend responder 1632.50s - 1635.90s | That's just gonna nicely listen there and then we'll open some 1636.94s - 1640.92s | Visual Studio and then oh 1641.76s - 1646.24s | My co-worker sent me this cool link. I'm just gonna go get clone this that's on the internet 1646.24s - 1652.76s | I blindly clone things all the time. I'm a security professional Thomas. I do too a bit like seriously and 1653.72s - 1656.60s | Whoa, what's that? That's an NTLM hash that it just sent 1657.96s - 1659.52s | Yay 1659.52s - 1665.58s | So some fun side notes it also works in git submodules 1665.58s - 1673.42s | So you can't just trust GitHub because you could have a nice little link to some attackers thing as a git submodule like 1673.66s - 1679.50s | Ten folders deep. So do you know what blindly clone submodules by default Thomas? Do you have any idea? 1680.26s - 1682.94s | Visual Studio you are correct. Oh, wow 1683.54s - 1686.22s | It also works and things like VC package 1686.22s - 1692.86s | You can point to a get URL and it will just also download it MPM or so for fun days and 1694.14s - 1698.94s | Other IDs like chip brains and then like GitHub desktop. They don't do this 1699.78s - 1705.06s | So we told Microsoft and then they came back with this fun response. We'll just give you a moment to digest this 1705.98s - 1707.98s | Actually, I'll cut out the like 1708.62s - 1710.30s | extra words 1710.30s - 1715.18s | Get cloning from an untrusted source is the same as browsing an untrusted SMB share 1715.78s - 1723.00s | Oh, is it Microsoft? Yeah, I do that all the time browsing on same. Yeah, so 1723.98s - 1729.16s | we tried to find


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you can't just trust GitHub because you could have a nice little link to some attackers thing as a git submodule like 1673.66s - 1679.50s | Ten folders deep. So do you know what blindly clone submodules by default Thomas? Do you have any idea? 1680.26s - 1682.94s | Visual Studio you are correct. Oh, wow 1683.54s - 1686.22s | It also works and things like VC package 1686.22s - 1692.86s | You can point to a get URL and it will just also download it MPM or so for fun days and 1694.14s - 1698.94s | Other IDs like chip brains and then like GitHub desktop. They don't do this 1699.78s - 1705.06s | So we told Microsoft and then they came back with this fun response. We'll just give you a moment to digest this 1705.98s - 1707.98s | Actually, I'll cut out the like 1708.62s - 1710.30s | extra words 1710.30s - 1715.18s | Get cloning from an untrusted source is the same as browsing an untrusted SMB share 1715.78s - 1723.00s | Oh, is it Microsoft? Yeah, I do that all the time browsing on same. Yeah, so 1723.98s - 1729.16s | we tried to find where the security boundary was after they came back and we were like 1730.40s - 1736.36s | Okay, so it's not a Visual Studio problem because they said no, so maybe it's a get credential manager problem 1737.28s - 1740.36s | But then get credential credential manager uses git 1740.96s - 1748.04s | But get users look curl which is compiled with the using TLM flags, but it's actually a Visual Studio problem, but 1749.76s - 1756.16s | We don't know where the problem is it's sort of everywhere but nowhere and no one wants to take blame for it really 1757.68s - 1761.20s | Microsoft will patch anything that you can prove that it's in their products 1762.80s - 1764.52s | Anything else 1764.52s - 1766.52s | That's a Windows problem 1767.40s - 1774.90s | You can use that on your next red team, I guess if you want to hack some developers 1775.58s - 1780.48s | so where we ended up was 1782.12s - 1784.90s | We have four bugs reported to MS 1785.64s - 1790.00s | Two bounties and one swag. I'm so sorry to my dog from the previous slides 1790.00s - 1792.88s | Your surgery


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where the security boundary was after they came back and we were like 1730.40s - 1736.36s | Okay, so it's not a Visual Studio problem because they said no, so maybe it's a get credential manager problem 1737.28s - 1740.36s | But then get credential credential manager uses git 1740.96s - 1748.04s | But get users look curl which is compiled with the using TLM flags, but it's actually a Visual Studio problem, but 1749.76s - 1756.16s | We don't know where the problem is it's sort of everywhere but nowhere and no one wants to take blame for it really 1757.68s - 1761.20s | Microsoft will patch anything that you can prove that it's in their products 1762.80s - 1764.52s | Anything else 1764.52s - 1766.52s | That's a Windows problem 1767.40s - 1774.90s | You can use that on your next red team, I guess if you want to hack some developers 1775.58s - 1780.48s | so where we ended up was 1782.12s - 1784.90s | We have four bugs reported to MS 1785.64s - 1790.00s | Two bounties and one swag. I'm so sorry to my dog from the previous slides 1790.00s - 1792.88s | Your surgery came later than expected for some mad reason 1793.52s - 1795.52s | One not a bug which which is git 1796.52s - 1801.92s | One yes, it's a bug but it's not a priority. I mean, that's fair. It's irises and 1803.08s - 1806.56s | You know to get to this point. We have a very very rigorous methodology 1806.96s - 1809.60s | Obviously, I mean I have a spreadsheet 1810.80s - 1812.80s | It's actually a text file on my desktop 1813.32s - 1821.88s | So yeah, this is basically how we found all these bugs anywhere you see an HTTP 1821.88s - 1827.68s | Just put a responder URL and see what Windows does and you'll be delighted with the results image tag 1827.68s - 1831.08s | Do it sharing tag do it RSS 1832.60s - 1834.40s | RSS 1834.40s - 1837.87s | So we do next 1838.55s - 1843.83s | There are a lot of places. This could be a thing and I mean, it's just HTTP. So like 1845.15s - 1849.67s | Build servers they can have links out of every blue. Yeah 1850.59s - 1857.63s | Pipelines, they could have links document processing things like


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came later than expected for some mad reason 1793.52s - 1795.52s | One not a bug which which is git 1796.52s - 1801.92s | One yes, it's a bug but it's not a priority. I mean, that's fair. It's irises and 1803.08s - 1806.56s | You know to get to this point. We have a very very rigorous methodology 1806.96s - 1809.60s | Obviously, I mean I have a spreadsheet 1810.80s - 1812.80s | It's actually a text file on my desktop 1813.32s - 1821.88s | So yeah, this is basically how we found all these bugs anywhere you see an HTTP 1821.88s - 1827.68s | Just put a responder URL and see what Windows does and you'll be delighted with the results image tag 1827.68s - 1831.08s | Do it sharing tag do it RSS 1832.60s - 1834.40s | RSS 1834.40s - 1837.87s | So we do next 1838.55s - 1843.83s | There are a lot of places. This could be a thing and I mean, it's just HTTP. So like 1845.15s - 1849.67s | Build servers they can have links out of every blue. Yeah 1850.59s - 1857.63s | Pipelines, they could have links document processing things like I don't know PDF generators. Yeah, they could do it, too 1858.43s - 1863.99s | Maybe word has it maybe teams has it. No one uses teams though. So no one uses teams. Yeah 1864.79s - 1867.55s | Maybe video games. I don't know maybe drop a link in chat 1867.95s - 1872.91s | Yeah, I reckon video games is what something I want to look at because I like playing video games for research 1872.91s - 1874.91s | Yeah, I should do that in work time 1875.15s - 1877.15s | Our boss is here 1878.63s - 1882.03s | Basically anywhere you could put a URL and it's probably a good place to start 1882.15s - 1887.43s | But also we want to talk to you folks as well because there's probably a lot of people out there who have some great ideas 1887.63s - 1889.63s | Of where to look so we would like to give 1890.87s - 1896.27s | Yeah, and just go turn in tell him off if you can it probably will break everything but turn it off 1896.27s - 1901.87s | Yeah, turn it off and then turn it back on immediately when someone screams.


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I don't know PDF generators. Yeah, they could do it, too 1858.43s - 1863.99s | Maybe word has it maybe teams has it. No one uses teams though. So no one uses teams. Yeah 1864.79s - 1867.55s | Maybe video games. I don't know maybe drop a link in chat 1867.95s - 1872.91s | Yeah, I reckon video games is what something I want to look at because I like playing video games for research 1872.91s - 1874.91s | Yeah, I should do that in work time 1875.15s - 1877.15s | Our boss is here 1878.63s - 1882.03s | Basically anywhere you could put a URL and it's probably a good place to start 1882.15s - 1887.43s | But also we want to talk to you folks as well because there's probably a lot of people out there who have some great ideas 1887.63s - 1889.63s | Of where to look so we would like to give 1890.87s - 1896.27s | Yeah, and just go turn in tell him off if you can it probably will break everything but turn it off 1896.27s - 1901.87s | Yeah, turn it off and then turn it back on immediately when someone screams. Yeah use Kerberos because that's more secure 1903.59s - 1907.79s | Yeah, this is the end of our talk we have speedrun it much like our NTLM bugs 1908.47s - 1912.63s | But finding bugs doesn't happen in isolation. So a big thank you to everyone named 1913.15s - 1916.91s | Yeah, and thank you for the MSRC for listening and meeting with us 1916.91s - 1921.27s | They are genuinely good folks who they need more of them because there's only 30 of them 1921.55s - 1925.71s | Apparently which is not nearly enough and thanks for inviting us to your party as well. That was fun 1925.71s - 1930.43s | Yeah, that was good. And thank you for everyone who has published the research. This is something I don't say lightly 1931.31s - 1938.91s | Every piece of research published leads to more research. So please keep disclosing. Please keep blogging. It's so good reading it 1939.43s - 1940.71s | And 1940.71s - 1942.71s | Also, thank you for the DEF CON organizers 1942.79s - 1948.11s | You guys are awesome and hacking is a team sport and please come up to us afterwards if you have any


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Yeah use Kerberos because that's more secure 1903.59s - 1907.79s | Yeah, this is the end of our talk we have speedrun it much like our NTLM bugs 1908.47s - 1912.63s | But finding bugs doesn't happen in isolation. So a big thank you to everyone named 1913.15s - 1916.91s | Yeah, and thank you for the MSRC for listening and meeting with us 1916.91s - 1921.27s | They are genuinely good folks who they need more of them because there's only 30 of them 1921.55s - 1925.71s | Apparently which is not nearly enough and thanks for inviting us to your party as well. That was fun 1925.71s - 1930.43s | Yeah, that was good. And thank you for everyone who has published the research. This is something I don't say lightly 1931.31s - 1938.91s | Every piece of research published leads to more research. So please keep disclosing. Please keep blogging. It's so good reading it 1939.43s - 1940.71s | And 1940.71s - 1942.71s | Also, thank you for the DEF CON organizers 1942.79s - 1948.11s | You guys are awesome and hacking is a team sport and please come up to us afterwards if you have any ideas where to get 1948.11s - 1953.71s | Hashes out of we want to know we want more moderates that we don't get bounties for perfect 1954.35s - 1964.93s | There is a microphone there for tall people who can ask questions 1973.79s - 1978.76s | Cool. All right. Thanks everyone 1980.10s - 1982.10s | Thank you


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ideas where to get 1948.11s - 1953.71s | Hashes out of we want to know we want more moderates that we don't get bounties for perfect 1954.35s - 1964.93s | There is a microphone there for tall people who can ask questions 1973.79s - 1978.76s | Cool. All right. Thanks everyone 1980.10s - 1982.10s | Thank you


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{ "webpage_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTDCt4rvR7s", "title": "DEF CON 32 - Hacker Jeopardy - Night 2", "description": "The thrilling conclusion to DEF CON 32's Hacker Jeopardy Contest!", "channel_url": "https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6Om9kAkl32dWlDSNlDS9Iw", "duration": 5221, "channel": "DEFCONConference", "uploader": "DEFCONConference", "upload_date": "20241008" } 2.64s - 6.64s | This text was transcribed using whisper model: large-v2 Ladies and gentlemen, Wayne Schwartau and Miss Kitty. 6.64s - 20.86s | All right, it's second night and you showed up again. That was stupid. 20.86s - 25.86s | We were hoping to get out of here by 8.30, but that's not going to fucking happen. 25.86s - 29.86s | All right, hopefully you guys, I'm going to really do another shout out. 29.86s - 36.86s | You guys have no idea how hard this crew of 14, 15 people, 36.86s - 41.86s | how much work goes into actually making this thing look like it's easy. 41.86s - 47.86s | It's fucking hard. Let's hear it, please, again for the entire DFI crew. 47.86s - 58.75s | And yesterday I forgot entirely, my bad, to shout it out. 58.75s - 62.75s | We used to have Beer Bettys, we used to have Vina Vandals, 62.75s - 65.75s | and a few of you are out there who used to be up here. 65.75s - 70.75s | But now we have the Lentile Lookalikes who are doing an awesome job. 70.75s - 78.81s | Kitty, what do you want to say? 78.81s - 82.81s | I want to say hi, thank you for coming to my birthday party. 82.81s - 89.17s | Should I tell you guys my real age? 89.17s - 91.17s | Shut up. 91.17s - 93.17s | Fifty fucking five years old. 93.17s - 96.50s | Let's hear it. 96.50s - 99.50s | And fucking DEF CON always happens on my birthday, 99.50s - 103.50s | so I always quietly spend my birthday with you guys. 103.50s - 105.50s | But now you know. So there you go. 105.50s - 109.50s | Anyway, I have three words for you. 109.50s - 129.97s | No. 129.97s - 131.97s | And there's a little surprise this evening. 131.97s - 135.97s | We have a very, very special guest who has disappeared. 135.97s - 139.97s | What the hell? It's a big surprise. 139.97s - 141.97s | She was sitting down. 141.97s - 144.97s | I want to introduce you to somebody who


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you are out there who used to be up here. 65.75s - 70.75s | But now we have the Lentile Lookalikes who are doing an awesome job. 70.75s - 78.81s | Kitty, what do you want to say? 78.81s - 82.81s | I want to say hi, thank you for coming to my birthday party. 82.81s - 89.17s | Should I tell you guys my real age? 89.17s - 91.17s | Shut up. 91.17s - 93.17s | Fifty fucking five years old. 93.17s - 96.50s | Let's hear it. 96.50s - 99.50s | And fucking DEF CON always happens on my birthday, 99.50s - 103.50s | so I always quietly spend my birthday with you guys. 103.50s - 105.50s | But now you know. So there you go. 105.50s - 109.50s | Anyway, I have three words for you. 109.50s - 129.97s | No. 129.97s - 131.97s | And there's a little surprise this evening. 131.97s - 135.97s | We have a very, very special guest who has disappeared. 135.97s - 139.97s | What the hell? It's a big surprise. 139.97s - 141.97s | She was sitting down. 141.97s - 144.97s | I want to introduce you to somebody who is very special, 144.97s - 147.97s | somebody I've known for quite a few years, 147.97s - 149.97s | and she's going to have a few words for you. 149.97s - 153.97s | Please welcome, stand up with honor, 153.97s - 155.97s | Kimberly Mitnick. 179.21s - 182.21s | Who's this special person that you're talking about? 182.21s - 184.21s | I'm like, where is this person? 184.21s - 188.21s | No, I was always happily behind the curtains, 188.21s - 191.21s | don't at all need any acknowledgement whatsoever, 191.21s - 193.21s | but I just want to say to everyone in the community, 193.21s - 195.21s | thank you for all the love, you know, 195.21s - 199.21s | for the past year that everyone has given for Kevin. 199.21s - 202.21s | Whether it's love and hate, let's be honest. 202.21s - 205.21s | I admit, right, I see it, I acknowledge it, 205.21s - 207.21s | but there's a lot of love, 207.21s - 209.21s | and there's a few special shout-outs that I want to give, 209.21s - 211.21s | especially to Dave Kennedy. 211.21s - 213.21s | I really appreciate it. 213.21s - 216.21s


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is very special, 144.97s - 147.97s | somebody I've known for quite a few years, 147.97s - 149.97s | and she's going to have a few words for you. 149.97s - 153.97s | Please welcome, stand up with honor, 153.97s - 155.97s | Kimberly Mitnick. 179.21s - 182.21s | Who's this special person that you're talking about? 182.21s - 184.21s | I'm like, where is this person? 184.21s - 188.21s | No, I was always happily behind the curtains, 188.21s - 191.21s | don't at all need any acknowledgement whatsoever, 191.21s - 193.21s | but I just want to say to everyone in the community, 193.21s - 195.21s | thank you for all the love, you know, 195.21s - 199.21s | for the past year that everyone has given for Kevin. 199.21s - 202.21s | Whether it's love and hate, let's be honest. 202.21s - 205.21s | I admit, right, I see it, I acknowledge it, 205.21s - 207.21s | but there's a lot of love, 207.21s - 209.21s | and there's a few special shout-outs that I want to give, 209.21s - 211.21s | especially to Dave Kennedy. 211.21s - 213.21s | I really appreciate it. 213.21s - 216.21s | I don't know if he's here, if he is here or not, 216.21s - 219.21s | but he's done such amazing, just sharing the stories, 219.21s - 221.21s | and I really appreciate everyone sharing those stories, 221.21s - 225.21s | because, I mean, that's really what keeps Kevin alive, 225.21s - 229.21s | and that's really important to me as well. 229.21s - 230.21s | And I also want to... 230.21s - 233.21s | There's actually a few of our Mitnick security team here, 233.21s - 236.21s | and so, guys, raise your hands. 236.21s - 243.77s | I'm going to keep this very short, 243.77s - 245.77s | because I know it is very short, 245.77s - 248.77s | but I do have some of Kevin's Lockpick business cards, 248.77s - 250.77s | and I know that a few people wanted them, 250.77s - 252.77s | and they still are in production. 252.77s - 253.77s | Don't worry. 253.77s - 254.77s | I'm happy to give them out. 254.77s - 255.77s | You know, come meet me. 255.77s - 256.77s | I'm here. 256.77s - 257.77s | After. 257.77s - 258.77s | Afterwards. 258.77s - 259.77s |


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| I don't know if he's here, if he is here or not, 216.21s - 219.21s | but he's done such amazing, just sharing the stories, 219.21s - 221.21s | and I really appreciate everyone sharing those stories, 221.21s - 225.21s | because, I mean, that's really what keeps Kevin alive, 225.21s - 229.21s | and that's really important to me as well. 229.21s - 230.21s | And I also want to... 230.21s - 233.21s | There's actually a few of our Mitnick security team here, 233.21s - 236.21s | and so, guys, raise your hands. 236.21s - 243.77s | I'm going to keep this very short, 243.77s - 245.77s | because I know it is very short, 245.77s - 248.77s | but I do have some of Kevin's Lockpick business cards, 248.77s - 250.77s | and I know that a few people wanted them, 250.77s - 252.77s | and they still are in production. 252.77s - 253.77s | Don't worry. 253.77s - 254.77s | I'm happy to give them out. 254.77s - 255.77s | You know, come meet me. 255.77s - 256.77s | I'm here. 256.77s - 257.77s | After. 257.77s - 258.77s | Afterwards. 258.77s - 259.77s | After. 259.77s - 260.77s | Okay, after, after. 260.77s - 261.77s | All right, thanks, everyone. 261.77s - 269.19s | All right, Fizz, let's get this shit show on the road. 269.19s - 276.52s | Hacker Jeopardy 30, let's rock it! 276.52s - 284.52s | Acronym used for the U.S. Armed Forces five levels of alert. 284.52s - 285.52s | What is DEFCON? 285.52s - 286.52s | That's it. 286.52s - 294.70s | Yes, you've heard it often in movies. 294.70s - 295.70s | 32. 295.70s - 296.70s | 32. 296.70s - 297.70s | 32. 297.70s - 298.70s | 32. 298.70s - 299.70s | 32. 299.70s - 300.70s | 32. 300.70s - 301.70s | 32. 301.70s - 302.70s | 32. 302.70s - 303.70s | You go to DEFCON 1. 303.70s - 304.70s | No, 32. 304.70s - 307.70s | Welcome to Hacker Jeopardy. 307.70s - 310.70s | Welcome to Hacker Jeopardy. 310.70s - 311.70s | Anniversary. 311.70s - 313.70s | At DEFCON 32. 313.70s - 314.70s | Starring. 315.70s - 371.03s | Fuck It Up. 371.03s - 372.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 372.03s - 374.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 374.03s - 375.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 375.03s


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After. 259.77s - 260.77s | Okay, after, after. 260.77s - 261.77s | All right, thanks, everyone. 261.77s - 269.19s | All right, Fizz, let's get this shit show on the road. 269.19s - 276.52s | Hacker Jeopardy 30, let's rock it! 276.52s - 284.52s | Acronym used for the U.S. Armed Forces five levels of alert. 284.52s - 285.52s | What is DEFCON? 285.52s - 286.52s | That's it. 286.52s - 294.70s | Yes, you've heard it often in movies. 294.70s - 295.70s | 32. 295.70s - 296.70s | 32. 296.70s - 297.70s | 32. 297.70s - 298.70s | 32. 298.70s - 299.70s | 32. 299.70s - 300.70s | 32. 300.70s - 301.70s | 32. 301.70s - 302.70s | 32. 302.70s - 303.70s | You go to DEFCON 1. 303.70s - 304.70s | No, 32. 304.70s - 307.70s | Welcome to Hacker Jeopardy. 307.70s - 310.70s | Welcome to Hacker Jeopardy. 310.70s - 311.70s | Anniversary. 311.70s - 313.70s | At DEFCON 32. 313.70s - 314.70s | Starring. 315.70s - 371.03s | Fuck It Up. 371.03s - 372.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 372.03s - 374.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 374.03s - 375.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 375.03s - 376.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 376.03s - 377.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 377.03s - 378.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 378.03s - 379.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 379.03s - 380.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 380.03s - 381.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 381.03s - 382.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 382.03s - 383.03s | Fuck It Up. 383.03s - 386.53s | Fuck It Up. 386.53s - 387.53s | Don't Fuck It Up! 387.53s - 398.57s | Without further ado, the man you've been waiting for, 398.57s - 401.57s | for 30 fucking years… 426.15s - 427.15s | Everything that's happened tonight. 427.15s - 430.75s | one of my favorite nights of every year 430.75s - 432.51s | because this is almost like church 432.51s - 434.95s | where we get to talk about all the things 434.95s - 436.89s | that have happened over the last year 436.89s - 439.45s | and have a couple of moments of laughs together. 439.45s - 442.09s | We've got three teams that are gonna do awesome tonight. 442.09s - 445.03s | We've got special guests out the wazoo. 445.03s - 447.27s | We're here for you, DEF CON,


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- 376.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 376.03s - 377.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 377.03s - 378.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 378.03s - 379.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 379.03s - 380.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 380.03s - 381.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 381.03s - 382.03s | Don't Fuck It Up. 382.03s - 383.03s | Fuck It Up. 383.03s - 386.53s | Fuck It Up. 386.53s - 387.53s | Don't Fuck It Up! 387.53s - 398.57s | Without further ado, the man you've been waiting for, 398.57s - 401.57s | for 30 fucking years… 426.15s - 427.15s | Everything that's happened tonight. 427.15s - 430.75s | one of my favorite nights of every year 430.75s - 432.51s | because this is almost like church 432.51s - 434.95s | where we get to talk about all the things 434.95s - 436.89s | that have happened over the last year 436.89s - 439.45s | and have a couple of moments of laughs together. 439.45s - 442.09s | We've got three teams that are gonna do awesome tonight. 442.09s - 445.03s | We've got special guests out the wazoo. 445.03s - 447.27s | We're here for you, DEF CON, 447.27s - 455.26s | so let's have some good times, right? 455.26s - 457.76s | Teams winning in game one, 457.76s - 460.86s | bestowed in something that's really not amenable 460.86s - 463.22s | to wearing in the Vegas heat. 463.22s - 490.82s | They are. 490.82s - 492.74s | Computer is your. 492.74s - 520.96s | On this stage, more than all you motherfuckers 520.96s - 522.18s | have put together. 522.18s - 537.36s | They are. 537.36s - 539.16s | With the very same machine. 540.72s - 542.88s | Oh fuck yeah, we've got some teams. 542.88s - 544.32s | Hey audience, are you ready? 544.32s - 552.89s | I have to tie my shoe, hold on. 554.41s - 555.57s | I'm good, thanks. 555.57s - 557.05s | You fucking cocktease. 557.05s - 558.49s | Let's fucking go. 558.49s - 559.41s | Let's play. 559.41s - 569.84s | It is my distinct pleasure to present to you 569.84s - 572.32s | the categories for the first round tonight. 572.68s - 573.88s | And they are. 573.88s - 591.37s | General Nerdery edition. 591.37s - 599.92s | Fucking sell out. 599.92s - 603.40s | It's a first debut


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447.27s - 455.26s | so let's have some good times, right? 455.26s - 457.76s | Teams winning in game one, 457.76s - 460.86s | bestowed in something that's really not amenable 460.86s - 463.22s | to wearing in the Vegas heat. 463.22s - 490.82s | They are. 490.82s - 492.74s | Computer is your. 492.74s - 520.96s | On this stage, more than all you motherfuckers 520.96s - 522.18s | have put together. 522.18s - 537.36s | They are. 537.36s - 539.16s | With the very same machine. 540.72s - 542.88s | Oh fuck yeah, we've got some teams. 542.88s - 544.32s | Hey audience, are you ready? 544.32s - 552.89s | I have to tie my shoe, hold on. 554.41s - 555.57s | I'm good, thanks. 555.57s - 557.05s | You fucking cocktease. 557.05s - 558.49s | Let's fucking go. 558.49s - 559.41s | Let's play. 559.41s - 569.84s | It is my distinct pleasure to present to you 569.84s - 572.32s | the categories for the first round tonight. 572.68s - 573.88s | And they are. 573.88s - 591.37s | General Nerdery edition. 591.37s - 599.92s | Fucking sell out. 599.92s - 603.40s | It's a first debut at the 30th anniversary. 603.40s - 608.71s | We've got people here that are part of the DFIU clue group. 608.71s - 615.14s | Cheer louder for them, you'll like to see them, I promise. 615.14s - 619.02s | And finally, that's what she said. 623.51s - 626.75s | Pandemonium, as you are closest to me, 626.75s - 630.63s | you have an added benefit of picking the first category. 631.47s - 637.82s | Audience, are we ready to play Hacker Jeopardy? 637.82s - 642.82s | Let's get started with the DFIU clue crew for 100. 646.02s - 648.38s | DFIU clue crew for 100. 648.38s - 650.22s | I'm welcoming to the stage, 650.22s - 661.56s | Helen of Tor from VX Underground. 661.56s - 662.76s | Here we go. 662.76s - 666.28s | At DEF CON 27, Hacker Jeopardy contestants 666.28s - 671.10s | were asked to name the port that Telnet is on. 671.10s - 673.02s | Yeah, if you were there, you know where I'm going with this. 673.02s - 675.82s | Not only were they hilariously incorrect, 675.82s - 678.70s | they skipped over the correct response. 678.70s - 682.02s | These were the three


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at the 30th anniversary. 603.40s - 608.71s | We've got people here that are part of the DFIU clue group. 608.71s - 615.14s | Cheer louder for them, you'll like to see them, I promise. 615.14s - 619.02s | And finally, that's what she said. 623.51s - 626.75s | Pandemonium, as you are closest to me, 626.75s - 630.63s | you have an added benefit of picking the first category. 631.47s - 637.82s | Audience, are we ready to play Hacker Jeopardy? 637.82s - 642.82s | Let's get started with the DFIU clue crew for 100. 646.02s - 648.38s | DFIU clue crew for 100. 648.38s - 650.22s | I'm welcoming to the stage, 650.22s - 661.56s | Helen of Tor from VX Underground. 661.56s - 662.76s | Here we go. 662.76s - 666.28s | At DEF CON 27, Hacker Jeopardy contestants 666.28s - 671.10s | were asked to name the port that Telnet is on. 671.10s - 673.02s | Yeah, if you were there, you know where I'm going with this. 673.02s - 675.82s | Not only were they hilariously incorrect, 675.82s - 678.70s | they skipped over the correct response. 678.70s - 682.02s | These were the three incorrect ports answered. 683.82s - 686.81s | Ooh. 686.81s - 688.81s | The three incorrect ports answered 688.81s - 691.53s | when guessed the Telnet, the origination of the meme. 691.53s - 694.16s | What are they? 694.16s - 695.40s | All right, well, guess what? 695.40s - 696.56s | That was the hundred. 699.64s - 703.62s | You fucked it up. 703.62s - 705.50s | Going once. 705.50s - 706.94s | This is going great already. 708.18s - 716.02s | Going twice. 716.02s - 717.42s | What is wrong? 718.54s - 720.26s | I'm not calling on Gmark. 720.26s - 731.75s | Right over here. 731.75s - 733.03s | All right, well, this makes me feel great 733.03s - 734.43s | about how this is gonna go. 735.83s - 737.79s | All right, back to the board, Pandas. 737.79s - 740.15s | Let's go with the clue crew for 200. 740.15s - 741.99s | Clue crew for 200. 741.99s - 750.76s | Welcome to the stage. 750.76s - 752.12s | What's going on, DEF CON? 752.12s - 757.51s | How are we doing? 757.51s - 761.03s | If you hit the left jab at exactly 30 seconds, 761.03s -


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incorrect ports answered. 683.82s - 686.81s | Ooh. 686.81s - 688.81s | The three incorrect ports answered 688.81s - 691.53s | when guessed the Telnet, the origination of the meme. 691.53s - 694.16s | What are they? 694.16s - 695.40s | All right, well, guess what? 695.40s - 696.56s | That was the hundred. 699.64s - 703.62s | You fucked it up. 703.62s - 705.50s | Going once. 705.50s - 706.94s | This is going great already. 708.18s - 716.02s | Going twice. 716.02s - 717.42s | What is wrong? 718.54s - 720.26s | I'm not calling on Gmark. 720.26s - 731.75s | Right over here. 731.75s - 733.03s | All right, well, this makes me feel great 733.03s - 734.43s | about how this is gonna go. 735.83s - 737.79s | All right, back to the board, Pandas. 737.79s - 740.15s | Let's go with the clue crew for 200. 740.15s - 741.99s | Clue crew for 200. 741.99s - 750.76s | Welcome to the stage. 750.76s - 752.12s | What's going on, DEF CON? 752.12s - 757.51s | How are we doing? 757.51s - 761.03s | If you hit the left jab at exactly 30 seconds, 761.03s - 763.35s | you will instantly knock out this boxer 763.35s - 769.82s | in the NES version of Mike Tyson's Punch-Out. 769.82s - 771.06s | Don't worry, I'll wait. 771.06s - 775.43s | This is fun for me. 775.43s - 777.90s | You know what? 777.90s - 781.72s | The audience, if this doesn't work. 781.72s - 782.56s | I believe in you. 782.56s - 784.16s | Going once. 784.16s - 801.90s | Going twice. 801.90s - 811.46s | We have the CDW. 811.46s - 812.90s | Well, this is fun. 812.90s - 814.86s | Where are you going next, Pandemonium? 815.90s - 820.26s | Let's keep this train wreck going for 300. 820.26s - 823.38s | For the $300 clue, I welcome to the stage, 823.38s - 834.60s | John Hammond. 834.60s - 835.72s | Ed Sharan? 835.72s - 836.56s | Is that you? 836.56s - 838.16s | Thanks, guys. 838.16s - 840.24s | All right, hey, this is supposed to be a funny one, 840.24s - 843.04s | so if you could get some audience interaction at the end, 843.04s - 845.36s | I'd love for you to lean into the joke here. 845.36s - 847.60s | This


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763.35s | you will instantly knock out this boxer 763.35s - 769.82s | in the NES version of Mike Tyson's Punch-Out. 769.82s - 771.06s | Don't worry, I'll wait. 771.06s - 775.43s | This is fun for me. 775.43s - 777.90s | You know what? 777.90s - 781.72s | The audience, if this doesn't work. 781.72s - 782.56s | I believe in you. 782.56s - 784.16s | Going once. 784.16s - 801.90s | Going twice. 801.90s - 811.46s | We have the CDW. 811.46s - 812.90s | Well, this is fun. 812.90s - 814.86s | Where are you going next, Pandemonium? 815.90s - 820.26s | Let's keep this train wreck going for 300. 820.26s - 823.38s | For the $300 clue, I welcome to the stage, 823.38s - 834.60s | John Hammond. 834.60s - 835.72s | Ed Sharan? 835.72s - 836.56s | Is that you? 836.56s - 838.16s | Thanks, guys. 838.16s - 840.24s | All right, hey, this is supposed to be a funny one, 840.24s - 843.04s | so if you could get some audience interaction at the end, 843.04s - 845.36s | I'd love for you to lean into the joke here. 845.36s - 847.60s | This is the colloquial name 847.60s - 850.36s | for an exponential denial-of-service attack 850.36s - 861.59s | via XML parsers. 861.59s - 862.43s | Yeah, you did. 862.43s - 863.79s | I know I most did. 863.79s - 864.63s | You didn't hit it. 864.63s - 865.47s | We hit the one. 865.47s - 868.03s | Did they fuck it up? 868.03s - 888.40s | Did they fuck it up? 888.40s - 906.00s | Fuck it, we'll do it in prod. 906.00s - 907.80s | Can I do my job now, Dave? 908.76s - 910.60s | It wasn't seen already. 910.60s - 911.60s | Well, what now? 911.60s - 912.60s | There's no team lit up. 912.60s - 917.33s | What am I gonna do? 917.33s - 929.76s | What is the billion laughs attack? 929.76s - 932.36s | Somebody's obviously low on potassium. 932.36s - 936.44s | Back to the board, OnlyLens. 936.44s - 938.48s | Let's go for fucking sellouts for 100. 938.48s - 939.40s | Oh, thank God. 940.92s - 942.52s | Fucking sellouts for 100. 943.84s - 953.10s | This company sold out one of its philosophies long... 953.10s - 954.10s | Pandemonium. 955.14s - 956.98s


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is the colloquial name 847.60s - 850.36s | for an exponential denial-of-service attack 850.36s - 861.59s | via XML parsers. 861.59s - 862.43s | Yeah, you did. 862.43s - 863.79s | I know I most did. 863.79s - 864.63s | You didn't hit it. 864.63s - 865.47s | We hit the one. 865.47s - 868.03s | Did they fuck it up? 868.03s - 888.40s | Did they fuck it up? 888.40s - 906.00s | Fuck it, we'll do it in prod. 906.00s - 907.80s | Can I do my job now, Dave? 908.76s - 910.60s | It wasn't seen already. 910.60s - 911.60s | Well, what now? 911.60s - 912.60s | There's no team lit up. 912.60s - 917.33s | What am I gonna do? 917.33s - 929.76s | What is the billion laughs attack? 929.76s - 932.36s | Somebody's obviously low on potassium. 932.36s - 936.44s | Back to the board, OnlyLens. 936.44s - 938.48s | Let's go for fucking sellouts for 100. 938.48s - 939.40s | Oh, thank God. 940.92s - 942.52s | Fucking sellouts for 100. 943.84s - 953.10s | This company sold out one of its philosophies long... 953.10s - 954.10s | Pandemonium. 955.14s - 956.98s | Who is Google? 956.98s - 958.14s | Who the fuck is Google? 958.94s - 962.47s | It's correct. 962.47s - 964.43s | People, that's who Google is. 964.43s - 968.72s | Back to the board, Pandas. 968.72s - 969.64s | For 200. 969.64s - 970.48s | For two. 971.92s - 974.04s | This fucking bullshit artist 974.04s - 978.08s | sold the security awareness company to know before. 979.32s - 980.56s | Pandemonium. 980.56s - 985.33s | Who is Kevin Mitnick? 985.33s - 990.27s | Is wrong. 990.27s - 995.49s | Awkward. 995.49s - 997.21s | She's right there. 998.33s - 1000.13s | I sit in the social engineering village. 1000.13s - 1001.49s | We're all bullshit artists. 1001.49s - 1002.61s | That's a compliment. 1002.61s - 1003.77s | We know. 1008.70s - 1010.06s | Going once. 1010.06s - 1011.38s | This is so funny to me. 1011.38s - 1013.10s | Going twice. 1013.10s - 1013.94s | I don't care. 1013.94s - 1015.10s | This is my favorite moment so far. 1015.10s - 1028.50s | Out to the audience. 1028.50s - 1029.78s | Who is Gregory D. Evans? 1029.78s - 1040.37s | Is wrong. 1040.37s - 1042.41s | Yep,


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| Who is Google? 956.98s - 958.14s | Who the fuck is Google? 958.94s - 962.47s | It's correct. 962.47s - 964.43s | People, that's who Google is. 964.43s - 968.72s | Back to the board, Pandas. 968.72s - 969.64s | For 200. 969.64s - 970.48s | For two. 971.92s - 974.04s | This fucking bullshit artist 974.04s - 978.08s | sold the security awareness company to know before. 979.32s - 980.56s | Pandemonium. 980.56s - 985.33s | Who is Kevin Mitnick? 985.33s - 990.27s | Is wrong. 990.27s - 995.49s | Awkward. 995.49s - 997.21s | She's right there. 998.33s - 1000.13s | I sit in the social engineering village. 1000.13s - 1001.49s | We're all bullshit artists. 1001.49s - 1002.61s | That's a compliment. 1002.61s - 1003.77s | We know. 1008.70s - 1010.06s | Going once. 1010.06s - 1011.38s | This is so funny to me. 1011.38s - 1013.10s | Going twice. 1013.10s - 1013.94s | I don't care. 1013.94s - 1015.10s | This is my favorite moment so far. 1015.10s - 1028.50s | Out to the audience. 1028.50s - 1029.78s | Who is Gregory D. Evans? 1029.78s - 1040.37s | Is wrong. 1040.37s - 1042.41s | Yep, nope, that's the favorite one so far. 1042.41s - 1043.45s | Back to the board. 1043.45s - 1054.42s | Pandas, you are in the hole. 1054.42s - 1058.76s | Grifter, are you fucking serious? 1058.76s - 1061.96s | I'm sorry, but if those of you in the front didn't hear that 1061.96s - 1065.00s | and those in the back definitely didn't hear that, 1065.00s - 1067.56s | my beautiful, beautiful Frank Grifter 1068.44s - 1071.16s | just told me that Jeff Moss just texted him 1071.16s - 1073.76s | and said that the outcome of this match 1073.76s - 1083.32s | is now a black badge event. 1083.32s - 1101.78s | I'm sorry, I've got tango. 1101.78s - 1102.62s | Away from them. 1102.62s - 1103.90s | I'll convince Jeff not to give it to you 1103.90s - 1105.66s | if you don't fucking do great. 1105.66s - 1107.02s | Let's go back to the board. 1107.02s - 1109.02s | Pandemonium, here we go. 1109.02s - 1109.94s | For 300. 1109.94s - 1126.63s | For three. 1126.63s - 1129.99s | You can wager any or all of up to 500 points. 1129.99s - 1135.50s | Audience, how much should


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nope, that's the favorite one so far. 1042.41s - 1043.45s | Back to the board. 1043.45s - 1054.42s | Pandas, you are in the hole. 1054.42s - 1058.76s | Grifter, are you fucking serious? 1058.76s - 1061.96s | I'm sorry, but if those of you in the front didn't hear that 1061.96s - 1065.00s | and those in the back definitely didn't hear that, 1065.00s - 1067.56s | my beautiful, beautiful Frank Grifter 1068.44s - 1071.16s | just told me that Jeff Moss just texted him 1071.16s - 1073.76s | and said that the outcome of this match 1073.76s - 1083.32s | is now a black badge event. 1083.32s - 1101.78s | I'm sorry, I've got tango. 1101.78s - 1102.62s | Away from them. 1102.62s - 1103.90s | I'll convince Jeff not to give it to you 1103.90s - 1105.66s | if you don't fucking do great. 1105.66s - 1107.02s | Let's go back to the board. 1107.02s - 1109.02s | Pandemonium, here we go. 1109.02s - 1109.94s | For 300. 1109.94s - 1126.63s | For three. 1126.63s - 1129.99s | You can wager any or all of up to 500 points. 1129.99s - 1135.50s | Audience, how much should they wager? 1135.50s - 1137.06s | Go big or go home, 500. 1137.06s - 1144.60s | Fucking sellouts. 1144.60s - 1147.96s | This colorful character sold his software company in 1994 1147.96s - 1150.56s | and once claimed he was arrested in Norway 1150.56s - 1160.67s | for using a thong for a face mask during COVID. 1160.67s - 1162.79s | I love, I'm loving the audience murmur. 1162.79s - 1164.75s | That's fucking solid murmur, folks. 1164.75s - 1168.31s | Goddamn. 1168.31s - 1169.55s | They're gonna show us up. 1169.55s - 1170.39s | Play next year. 1170.39s - 1171.95s | Pandas, I'm gonna need an answer. 1171.95s - 1173.39s | Who is John McAfee? 1173.39s - 1188.23s | Who is John McAfee? 1188.23s - 1189.99s | We were gonna call him Cocaine Bear, 1189.99s - 1191.03s | but didn't want to insult you. 1191.03s - 1193.71s | I would have also accepted Hammock Shitter. 1193.99s - 1195.55s | 400, fucking sellouts. 1195.55s - 1197.67s | 400 for sellouts. 1197.67s - 1199.87s | Peter Norton sold his highly successful 1199.87s - 1202.27s | early security and utility company, 1202.27s - 1207.27s | sorry, software, to this shitty A.V. company


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they wager? 1135.50s - 1137.06s | Go big or go home, 500. 1137.06s - 1144.60s | Fucking sellouts. 1144.60s - 1147.96s | This colorful character sold his software company in 1994 1147.96s - 1150.56s | and once claimed he was arrested in Norway 1150.56s - 1160.67s | for using a thong for a face mask during COVID. 1160.67s - 1162.79s | I love, I'm loving the audience murmur. 1162.79s - 1164.75s | That's fucking solid murmur, folks. 1164.75s - 1168.31s | Goddamn. 1168.31s - 1169.55s | They're gonna show us up. 1169.55s - 1170.39s | Play next year. 1170.39s - 1171.95s | Pandas, I'm gonna need an answer. 1171.95s - 1173.39s | Who is John McAfee? 1173.39s - 1188.23s | Who is John McAfee? 1188.23s - 1189.99s | We were gonna call him Cocaine Bear, 1189.99s - 1191.03s | but didn't want to insult you. 1191.03s - 1193.71s | I would have also accepted Hammock Shitter. 1193.99s - 1195.55s | 400, fucking sellouts. 1195.55s - 1197.67s | 400 for sellouts. 1197.67s - 1199.87s | Peter Norton sold his highly successful 1199.87s - 1202.27s | early security and utility company, 1202.27s - 1207.27s | sorry, software, to this shitty A.V. company in 1990. 1207.47s - 1210.25s | Who was Symantec? 1210.25s - 1211.17s | Who is Symantec? 1211.17s - 1213.85s | Or whatever the fuck they're called now is correct. 1213.85s - 1222.46s | Stepmom, you seem to be stuck. 1222.46s - 1223.62s | Free beer. 1223.62s - 1224.70s | At zero. 1224.70s - 1225.54s | Free beer. 1225.54s - 1226.38s | All right. 1226.38s - 1227.70s | Guess the whole Black Badge thing 1227.70s - 1229.78s | didn't really change your opinion on that? 1229.78s - 1234.06s | Oh, that was gross. 1234.06s - 1235.82s | OnlyLands, back to the board. 1235.82s - 1237.50s | Sellouts for five. 1237.50s - 1239.06s | Sellouts for five. 1239.06s - 1242.78s | The CEO of Twitter, before they sold to 1242.78s - 1245.30s | and were bought by or whatever, 1245.30s - 1248.30s | the very stable genius, Elon Musk. 1249.66s - 1250.50s | Stepmoms. 1251.42s - 1253.06s | Who is Jack Dorsey? 1253.06s - 1254.86s | Is incorrect. 1254.86s - 1262.42s | Somehow you just fucked it up. 1262.42s - 1267.77s | Back to, sorry, OnlyLands or Pandas? 1267.81s - 1270.09s | OnlyLands or Pandas? 1270.09s - 1271.65s | Going once. 1271.65s


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in 1990. 1207.47s - 1210.25s | Who was Symantec? 1210.25s - 1211.17s | Who is Symantec? 1211.17s - 1213.85s | Or whatever the fuck they're called now is correct. 1213.85s - 1222.46s | Stepmom, you seem to be stuck. 1222.46s - 1223.62s | Free beer. 1223.62s - 1224.70s | At zero. 1224.70s - 1225.54s | Free beer. 1225.54s - 1226.38s | All right. 1226.38s - 1227.70s | Guess the whole Black Badge thing 1227.70s - 1229.78s | didn't really change your opinion on that? 1229.78s - 1234.06s | Oh, that was gross. 1234.06s - 1235.82s | OnlyLands, back to the board. 1235.82s - 1237.50s | Sellouts for five. 1237.50s - 1239.06s | Sellouts for five. 1239.06s - 1242.78s | The CEO of Twitter, before they sold to 1242.78s - 1245.30s | and were bought by or whatever, 1245.30s - 1248.30s | the very stable genius, Elon Musk. 1249.66s - 1250.50s | Stepmoms. 1251.42s - 1253.06s | Who is Jack Dorsey? 1253.06s - 1254.86s | Is incorrect. 1254.86s - 1262.42s | Somehow you just fucked it up. 1262.42s - 1267.77s | Back to, sorry, OnlyLands or Pandas? 1267.81s - 1270.09s | OnlyLands or Pandas? 1270.09s - 1271.65s | Going once. 1271.65s - 1273.21s | Going twice. 1274.57s - 1283.14s | I'm gonna give away something good for this one. 1283.14s - 1288.14s | Away, one of the HAL 9000 badges from Hacker Jeopardy. 1289.14s - 1293.61s | Right over there, flashlight. 1293.61s - 1294.97s | Incorrect. 1294.97s - 1305.97s | Right there, waving on your chair. 1305.97s - 1309.13s | I should mention that receipt of this badge 1309.13s - 1314.13s | is early lifetime entry to Hacker Jeopardy before the line. 1318.51s - 1319.91s | There's two more we're giving away. 1319.91s - 1321.91s | I bet you want one. 1321.91s - 1327.87s | All right, OnlyLands, you're in control of the board. 1327.87s - 1329.59s | That's what she said for 100. 1329.59s - 1334.14s | That's what she said for 100. 1334.14s - 1336.14s | She was born in 1906. 1336.14s - 1338.10s | The most important thing I've accomplished 1338.10s - 1344.18s | other than building the compiler is training young people. 1344.18s - 1345.26s | Pandemonium. 1345.26s - 1346.34s | Who is Grace Hopper? 1346.34s - 1356.19s | Who is rear at? 1356.19s - 1358.47s | Let's, that's what she said for 200. 1358.47s - 1360.83s


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- 1273.21s | Going twice. 1274.57s - 1283.14s | I'm gonna give away something good for this one. 1283.14s - 1288.14s | Away, one of the HAL 9000 badges from Hacker Jeopardy. 1289.14s - 1293.61s | Right over there, flashlight. 1293.61s - 1294.97s | Incorrect. 1294.97s - 1305.97s | Right there, waving on your chair. 1305.97s - 1309.13s | I should mention that receipt of this badge 1309.13s - 1314.13s | is early lifetime entry to Hacker Jeopardy before the line. 1318.51s - 1319.91s | There's two more we're giving away. 1319.91s - 1321.91s | I bet you want one. 1321.91s - 1327.87s | All right, OnlyLands, you're in control of the board. 1327.87s - 1329.59s | That's what she said for 100. 1329.59s - 1334.14s | That's what she said for 100. 1334.14s - 1336.14s | She was born in 1906. 1336.14s - 1338.10s | The most important thing I've accomplished 1338.10s - 1344.18s | other than building the compiler is training young people. 1344.18s - 1345.26s | Pandemonium. 1345.26s - 1346.34s | Who is Grace Hopper? 1346.34s - 1356.19s | Who is rear at? 1356.19s - 1358.47s | Let's, that's what she said for 200. 1358.47s - 1360.83s | That's what she said for two. 1360.83s - 1362.51s | Born in 1867. 1362.51s - 1365.11s | We must not forget that when radium was discovered, 1365.11s - 1369.90s | no one knew that it would prove useful in hospitals. 1369.90s - 1370.74s | Stepmoms. 1370.74s - 1371.94s | Who is Madame Curie? 1371.94s - 1373.66s | Who is Madame Marie Curie? 1373.66s - 1384.03s | Is correct. 1384.03s - 1385.87s | Lynn Tyler, your stepmom would like to go with 1385.87s - 1387.79s | that's what she said for 300. 1388.79s - 1390.95s | That was complicated and a lot of backstory, 1390.95s - 1392.27s | but we'll go for 300. 1401.59s - 1405.10s | Fuck it up. 1405.10s - 1413.94s | Make yourself out of the hole if you wager any or all. 1413.94s - 1414.86s | Here's your clue. 1416.26s - 1418.06s | Born in 1815. 1418.06s - 1420.78s | The analytical engine weaves algebraic patterns 1420.78s - 1424.30s | just as the jacquard loom weaves flowers and leaves. 1433.00s - 1436.56s | Easy, we're positive here until they get it wrong. 1436.56s - 1438.96s | Wait till they get it wrong before being angry. 1438.96s


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| That's what she said for two. 1360.83s - 1362.51s | Born in 1867. 1362.51s - 1365.11s | We must not forget that when radium was discovered, 1365.11s - 1369.90s | no one knew that it would prove useful in hospitals. 1369.90s - 1370.74s | Stepmoms. 1370.74s - 1371.94s | Who is Madame Curie? 1371.94s - 1373.66s | Who is Madame Marie Curie? 1373.66s - 1384.03s | Is correct. 1384.03s - 1385.87s | Lynn Tyler, your stepmom would like to go with 1385.87s - 1387.79s | that's what she said for 300. 1388.79s - 1390.95s | That was complicated and a lot of backstory, 1390.95s - 1392.27s | but we'll go for 300. 1401.59s - 1405.10s | Fuck it up. 1405.10s - 1413.94s | Make yourself out of the hole if you wager any or all. 1413.94s - 1414.86s | Here's your clue. 1416.26s - 1418.06s | Born in 1815. 1418.06s - 1420.78s | The analytical engine weaves algebraic patterns 1420.78s - 1424.30s | just as the jacquard loom weaves flowers and leaves. 1433.00s - 1436.56s | Easy, we're positive here until they get it wrong. 1436.56s - 1438.96s | Wait till they get it wrong before being angry. 1438.96s - 1440.40s | Who is Ada Lovelace? 1440.40s - 1441.52s | Who is Ada Lovelace? 1441.52s - 1453.06s | Is correct. 1453.06s - 1454.22s | 400. 1454.22s - 1455.06s | For four. 1456.62s - 1458.18s | Born in 1918. 1458.18s - 1459.66s | Everything was so new. 1459.66s - 1462.54s | The whole idea of going to space was new and daring. 1462.54s - 1469.57s | There were no textbooks, so we had to write them. 1469.57s - 1470.93s | The silence is deafening. 1470.93s - 1473.63s | You have to fill it. 1473.63s - 1476.40s | Going once. 1476.40s - 1479.95s | Going twice. 1479.95s - 1489.51s | Yes, waving guy. 1489.51s - 1492.99s | Have a movie to add to your list. 1492.99s - 1495.03s | All right, back to the board, stepmoms. 1496.03s - 1497.63s | Stepmoms? 1497.63s - 1498.67s | 500. 1498.67s - 1499.51s | For five. 1501.15s - 1502.71s | Born in 1914. 1502.71s - 1505.59s | Films have a certain place in a certain time period. 1505.59s - 1509.89s | Technology is forever. 1509.89s - 1514.05s | Sorry, we're hopping around here. 1514.05s - 1515.05s | Yeah. 1515.05s - 1516.65s | This is so


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- 1440.40s | Who is Ada Lovelace? 1440.40s - 1441.52s | Who is Ada Lovelace? 1441.52s - 1453.06s | Is correct. 1453.06s - 1454.22s | 400. 1454.22s - 1455.06s | For four. 1456.62s - 1458.18s | Born in 1918. 1458.18s - 1459.66s | Everything was so new. 1459.66s - 1462.54s | The whole idea of going to space was new and daring. 1462.54s - 1469.57s | There were no textbooks, so we had to write them. 1469.57s - 1470.93s | The silence is deafening. 1470.93s - 1473.63s | You have to fill it. 1473.63s - 1476.40s | Going once. 1476.40s - 1479.95s | Going twice. 1479.95s - 1489.51s | Yes, waving guy. 1489.51s - 1492.99s | Have a movie to add to your list. 1492.99s - 1495.03s | All right, back to the board, stepmoms. 1496.03s - 1497.63s | Stepmoms? 1497.63s - 1498.67s | 500. 1498.67s - 1499.51s | For five. 1501.15s - 1502.71s | Born in 1914. 1502.71s - 1505.59s | Films have a certain place in a certain time period. 1505.59s - 1509.89s | Technology is forever. 1509.89s - 1514.05s | Sorry, we're hopping around here. 1514.05s - 1515.05s | Yeah. 1515.05s - 1516.65s | This is so quiet. 1516.65s - 1518.41s | Everybody's enwrapped with this question. 1518.41s - 1519.25s | I love it. 1519.25s - 1520.85s | There's like one excited hand in the way. 1520.85s - 1521.89s | Going once. 1521.89s - 1523.93s | Yeah, call that guy. 1523.93s - 1527.55s | Going twice. 1527.55s - 1544.25s | Guy doing the Guy Fawkes cosplay. 1544.25s - 1550.77s | Buh, buh, buh, buh. 1550.77s - 1552.61s | Did you fucking uninstall CrowdStrike 1552.61s - 1554.21s | before we fucking did this shit? 1577.15s - 1579.75s | Hands on the computer so there's no physical way 1579.75s - 1580.63s | it's my fault. 1583.23s - 1590.97s | And that would be the first time that has ever been true. 1590.97s - 1609.20s | Does anybody in here know how to fix a computer? 1609.20s - 1618.97s | This is girlfriend. 1618.97s - 1624.17s | There's vegans in the crowd for fuck's sake. 1624.17s - 1627.13s | When does a joke become a dad joke? 1627.13s - 1628.45s | No, fuck off. 1628.45s - 1629.65s | When it's apparent. 1629.65s - 1643.98s | Leave it to the stepmoms to leave me disappointed. 1643.98s - 1646.62s | I'm looking


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quiet. 1516.65s - 1518.41s | Everybody's enwrapped with this question. 1518.41s - 1519.25s | I love it. 1519.25s - 1520.85s | There's like one excited hand in the way. 1520.85s - 1521.89s | Going once. 1521.89s - 1523.93s | Yeah, call that guy. 1523.93s - 1527.55s | Going twice. 1527.55s - 1544.25s | Guy doing the Guy Fawkes cosplay. 1544.25s - 1550.77s | Buh, buh, buh, buh. 1550.77s - 1552.61s | Did you fucking uninstall CrowdStrike 1552.61s - 1554.21s | before we fucking did this shit? 1577.15s - 1579.75s | Hands on the computer so there's no physical way 1579.75s - 1580.63s | it's my fault. 1583.23s - 1590.97s | And that would be the first time that has ever been true. 1590.97s - 1609.20s | Does anybody in here know how to fix a computer? 1609.20s - 1618.97s | This is girlfriend. 1618.97s - 1624.17s | There's vegans in the crowd for fuck's sake. 1624.17s - 1627.13s | When does a joke become a dad joke? 1627.13s - 1628.45s | No, fuck off. 1628.45s - 1629.65s | When it's apparent. 1629.65s - 1643.98s | Leave it to the stepmoms to leave me disappointed. 1643.98s - 1646.62s | I'm looking for another stepmom for the children, so. 1648.34s - 1653.24s | Do you know what a pirate's favorite letter is? 1653.24s - 1655.08s | You think it'd be the R, but it'd really be the C. 1655.08s - 1664.51s | You would think it is Otter, tis the C they love. 1664.51s - 1665.47s | Wait, I thought it was. 1666.27s - 1667.27s | There's three stepmoms in your area. 1667.27s - 1678.95s | They would just be irate. 1678.95s - 1680.31s | We're almost there, folks. 1680.31s - 1681.71s | Just give us another second. 1682.91s - 1690.83s | Who wants panda facts? 1690.83s - 1692.83s | I would like to say Hacker Jeopardy! this year 1692.83s - 1697.11s | is brought to you by the illustrious, well-tested hardware 1697.11s - 1701.33s | by the Apple Computer Company. 1701.33s - 1702.69s | I think they were sponsoring us, 1702.69s - 1705.05s | but now that it's been a fucking shit show, 1705.05s - 1707.33s | they certainly have in retrospect. 1710.72s - 1715.04s | What was it, clown strike? 1715.04s - 1716.60s | Why are you looking at me like that, Mog? 1716.60s - 1717.56s | I don't like


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for another stepmom for the children, so. 1648.34s - 1653.24s | Do you know what a pirate's favorite letter is? 1653.24s - 1655.08s | You think it'd be the R, but it'd really be the C. 1655.08s - 1664.51s | You would think it is Otter, tis the C they love. 1664.51s - 1665.47s | Wait, I thought it was. 1666.27s - 1667.27s | There's three stepmoms in your area. 1667.27s - 1678.95s | They would just be irate. 1678.95s - 1680.31s | We're almost there, folks. 1680.31s - 1681.71s | Just give us another second. 1682.91s - 1690.83s | Who wants panda facts? 1690.83s - 1692.83s | I would like to say Hacker Jeopardy! this year 1692.83s - 1697.11s | is brought to you by the illustrious, well-tested hardware 1697.11s - 1701.33s | by the Apple Computer Company. 1701.33s - 1702.69s | I think they were sponsoring us, 1702.69s - 1705.05s | but now that it's been a fucking shit show, 1705.05s - 1707.33s | they certainly have in retrospect. 1710.72s - 1715.04s | What was it, clown strike? 1715.04s - 1716.60s | Why are you looking at me like that, Mog? 1716.60s - 1717.56s | I don't like that. 1720.74s - 1724.68s | Yeah, right? 1724.68s - 1725.52s | It's gonna be so much. 1725.52s - 1726.48s | Crowd struck again. 1733.20s - 1735.08s | I'm gonna eat a bag of dicks. 1735.08s - 1735.92s | Yeah. 1735.92s - 1736.76s | Oh. 1736.76s - 1738.56s | Would anyone else like to eat a bag of dicks? 1738.56s - 1739.64s | I have some. 1739.64s - 1775.94s | Quick, quick, replay the logs. 1775.94s - 1787.52s | Replay the logs into it. 1787.52s - 1791.56s | Sample this. 1791.56s - 1795.42s | You fucked it up. 1795.42s - 1802.78s | Was this sponsored by Red Hat System D and Journal D? 1802.78s - 1817.33s | Yeah, and. 1817.33s - 1819.81s | I hear Microsoft Recall can help with this. 1819.81s - 1828.06s | Yeah, you got that backwards. 1828.06s - 1829.58s | Backwards. 1829.58s - 1833.70s | Check the bod. 1833.70s - 1835.38s | Who's in control of the board? 1835.38s - 1836.86s | Sorry. 1836.86s - 1837.98s | Only lands, right? 1840.86s - 1843.82s | Should we check our bod? 1843.82s - 1844.66s | It's fine, go ahead. 1844.66s - 1845.50s | Fuck it. 1845.50s - 1849.73s |


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that. 1720.74s - 1724.68s | Yeah, right? 1724.68s - 1725.52s | It's gonna be so much. 1725.52s - 1726.48s | Crowd struck again. 1733.20s - 1735.08s | I'm gonna eat a bag of dicks. 1735.08s - 1735.92s | Yeah. 1735.92s - 1736.76s | Oh. 1736.76s - 1738.56s | Would anyone else like to eat a bag of dicks? 1738.56s - 1739.64s | I have some. 1739.64s - 1775.94s | Quick, quick, replay the logs. 1775.94s - 1787.52s | Replay the logs into it. 1787.52s - 1791.56s | Sample this. 1791.56s - 1795.42s | You fucked it up. 1795.42s - 1802.78s | Was this sponsored by Red Hat System D and Journal D? 1802.78s - 1817.33s | Yeah, and. 1817.33s - 1819.81s | I hear Microsoft Recall can help with this. 1819.81s - 1828.06s | Yeah, you got that backwards. 1828.06s - 1829.58s | Backwards. 1829.58s - 1833.70s | Check the bod. 1833.70s - 1835.38s | Who's in control of the board? 1835.38s - 1836.86s | Sorry. 1836.86s - 1837.98s | Only lands, right? 1840.86s - 1843.82s | Should we check our bod? 1843.82s - 1844.66s | It's fine, go ahead. 1844.66s - 1845.50s | Fuck it. 1845.50s - 1849.73s | Only lands, you're in control of the board. 1849.73s - 1850.81s | Test and prod. 1850.81s - 1851.73s | We will in a minute. 1851.73s - 1854.85s | All right, we'll take General Nerdery for 100. 1854.85s - 1855.69s | Oh, thank God. 1855.69s - 1856.53s | General Nerdery. 1856.53s - 1864.98s | Hi, everybody, welcome to Hacker Jeopardy! 1865.02s - 1867.46s | The original number associated with the first 1867.46s - 1871.78s | Enterprise on Star Trek TNG. 1871.78s - 1876.70s | What is the NCC-1701-D, like the big D? 1876.70s - 1881.63s | Incorrect. 1881.63s - 1895.31s | Pandemonium, going twice. 1895.31s - 1896.31s | To the audience. 1896.31s - 1897.39s | Nobody else has anything. 1897.39s - 1901.14s | Okay, Render Man. 1901.14s - 1906.82s | Not in the form of a question! 1906.82s - 1936.51s | You fucked it up. 1936.51s - 1961.20s | Hey, is it NCC-1701? 1961.20s - 1965.26s | I don't care what you say, it's C, fuck up. 1965.26s - 1966.38s | General Nerdery. 1967.26s - 1990.49s | Let's see if we have better luck with 200. 1990.49s - 1991.85s | Hey, hey, hey, careful. 1991.85s - 1992.69s | They're still not


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Only lands, you're in control of the board. 1849.73s - 1850.81s | Test and prod. 1850.81s - 1851.73s | We will in a minute. 1851.73s - 1854.85s | All right, we'll take General Nerdery for 100. 1854.85s - 1855.69s | Oh, thank God. 1855.69s - 1856.53s | General Nerdery. 1856.53s - 1864.98s | Hi, everybody, welcome to Hacker Jeopardy! 1865.02s - 1867.46s | The original number associated with the first 1867.46s - 1871.78s | Enterprise on Star Trek TNG. 1871.78s - 1876.70s | What is the NCC-1701-D, like the big D? 1876.70s - 1881.63s | Incorrect. 1881.63s - 1895.31s | Pandemonium, going twice. 1895.31s - 1896.31s | To the audience. 1896.31s - 1897.39s | Nobody else has anything. 1897.39s - 1901.14s | Okay, Render Man. 1901.14s - 1906.82s | Not in the form of a question! 1906.82s - 1936.51s | You fucked it up. 1936.51s - 1961.20s | Hey, is it NCC-1701? 1961.20s - 1965.26s | I don't care what you say, it's C, fuck up. 1965.26s - 1966.38s | General Nerdery. 1967.26s - 1990.49s | Let's see if we have better luck with 200. 1990.49s - 1991.85s | Hey, hey, hey, careful. 1991.85s - 1992.69s | They're still not getting points. 1992.69s - 1995.05s | You booing him gives him power. 1996.25s - 2000.51s | No, it's mine. 2000.51s - 2002.55s | I don't fucking care, back to the board. 2002.55s - 2011.58s | Pandemonium. 2011.58s - 2013.18s | Let's pick one. 2013.18s - 2014.46s | Let's try 200. 2014.46s - 2015.78s | 200 for thank you. 2016.62s - 2018.94s | This Gary Gygax, Dave Arness in creation 2018.94s - 2021.10s | turned 50 this year. 2021.10s - 2022.30s | Pandemonium. 2022.30s - 2024.26s | What is Dungeons and Dragons? 2024.26s - 2031.50s | What is D&D is correct! 2031.50s - 2032.50s | For 300. 2035.10s - 2037.50s | To wish someone good fortune in this language, 2037.50s - 2038.62s | you might say ka-plow. 2040.26s - 2041.10s | Onlylands. 2041.10s - 2042.02s | What is Klingon? 2042.02s - 2047.37s | What is Klingon is correct! 2048.73s - 2053.36s | Onlylands, you're back to the board. 2053.36s - 2057.40s | Post Malone paid north of $2 million for The One Ring, 2057.40s - 2060.36s | a crossover of Lord of Rings and this game. 2061.96s - 2062.80s | Onlylands. 2062.80s - 2063.80s | What is Magic the Gathering? 2063.80s


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getting points. 1992.69s - 1995.05s | You booing him gives him power. 1996.25s - 2000.51s | No, it's mine. 2000.51s - 2002.55s | I don't fucking care, back to the board. 2002.55s - 2011.58s | Pandemonium. 2011.58s - 2013.18s | Let's pick one. 2013.18s - 2014.46s | Let's try 200. 2014.46s - 2015.78s | 200 for thank you. 2016.62s - 2018.94s | This Gary Gygax, Dave Arness in creation 2018.94s - 2021.10s | turned 50 this year. 2021.10s - 2022.30s | Pandemonium. 2022.30s - 2024.26s | What is Dungeons and Dragons? 2024.26s - 2031.50s | What is D&D is correct! 2031.50s - 2032.50s | For 300. 2035.10s - 2037.50s | To wish someone good fortune in this language, 2037.50s - 2038.62s | you might say ka-plow. 2040.26s - 2041.10s | Onlylands. 2041.10s - 2042.02s | What is Klingon? 2042.02s - 2047.37s | What is Klingon is correct! 2048.73s - 2053.36s | Onlylands, you're back to the board. 2053.36s - 2057.40s | Post Malone paid north of $2 million for The One Ring, 2057.40s - 2060.36s | a crossover of Lord of Rings and this game. 2061.96s - 2062.80s | Onlylands. 2062.80s - 2063.80s | What is Magic the Gathering? 2063.80s - 2065.68s | What is Magic the Gathering? 2065.68s - 2075.37s | Hope you found the shiny Hacker Jeopardy is correct! 2075.37s - 2076.49s | Back to the board. 2076.49s - 2077.53s | For five. 2077.53s - 2078.37s | For five. 2079.57s - 2082.25s | This company produced Star Wars action figures 2082.25s - 2084.05s | starting in 1978. 2084.05s - 2086.17s | Do you know how much those are worth? 2086.17s - 2087.73s | Like mint in box? 2089.45s - 2090.81s | Pandemonium. 2090.81s - 2092.41s | What is Kenner? 2092.41s - 2103.58s | What is Kenner? 2103.58s - 2105.90s | Nat, O-M-F-G for 100. 2105.90s - 2109.06s | These are all things that are related to the NATO alphabet. 2114.04s - 2116.52s | The first code word in the NATO alphabet. 2117.52s - 2118.76s | Onlylands. 2118.76s - 2119.60s | What is alpha? 2120.44s - 2121.44s | What is alpha is correct! 2127.57s - 2128.41s | Two. 2128.41s - 2129.89s | For two. 2129.89s - 2133.21s | Whiskey Tango Foxtrot is commonly used 2133.21s - 2136.01s | to replace this more obscene phrase. 2136.89s - 2137.89s | Pandemonium. 2137.89s - 2139.53s | What the fuck? 2139.53s - 2143.31s


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- 2065.68s | What is Magic the Gathering? 2065.68s - 2075.37s | Hope you found the shiny Hacker Jeopardy is correct! 2075.37s - 2076.49s | Back to the board. 2076.49s - 2077.53s | For five. 2077.53s - 2078.37s | For five. 2079.57s - 2082.25s | This company produced Star Wars action figures 2082.25s - 2084.05s | starting in 1978. 2084.05s - 2086.17s | Do you know how much those are worth? 2086.17s - 2087.73s | Like mint in box? 2089.45s - 2090.81s | Pandemonium. 2090.81s - 2092.41s | What is Kenner? 2092.41s - 2103.58s | What is Kenner? 2103.58s - 2105.90s | Nat, O-M-F-G for 100. 2105.90s - 2109.06s | These are all things that are related to the NATO alphabet. 2114.04s - 2116.52s | The first code word in the NATO alphabet. 2117.52s - 2118.76s | Onlylands. 2118.76s - 2119.60s | What is alpha? 2120.44s - 2121.44s | What is alpha is correct! 2127.57s - 2128.41s | Two. 2128.41s - 2129.89s | For two. 2129.89s - 2133.21s | Whiskey Tango Foxtrot is commonly used 2133.21s - 2136.01s | to replace this more obscene phrase. 2136.89s - 2137.89s | Pandemonium. 2137.89s - 2139.53s | What the fuck? 2139.53s - 2143.31s | Not in the fucking... 2143.31s - 2155.22s | What is, what the fuck? 2155.22s - 2162.28s | Starting with what is a question? 2162.28s - 2163.28s | The fuck? 2167.86s - 2169.78s | It is if you pay enough. 2169.78s - 2171.26s | Yeah, it's certainly a question, 2171.26s - 2173.62s | but if the answer was the fuck, 2173.62s - 2176.74s | which is, again, what my feeling is most of the time 2176.74s - 2178.90s | when I'm hosting this show. 2178.90s - 2180.34s | If that was the answer, I'd give it to you, 2180.34s - 2181.66s | but it's not what is what the fuck, 2181.66s - 2183.42s | what the fuck, what the fuck. 2183.42s - 2184.26s | Back to the board. 2184.26s - 2185.10s | Stepmoms. 2188.46s - 2191.66s | The fuck? 2191.66s - 2192.70s | That was a callback. 2192.70s - 2196.25s | NATO for five. 2196.25s - 2197.49s | What? 2197.49s - 2199.01s | NATO for five. 2199.01s - 2203.38s | Hacker Jeopardy spelled out in NATO code words. 2203.38s - 2205.58s | You get one chance in 10 seconds. 2207.30s - 2208.50s | Stepmom. 2208.50s - 2212.58s | What is


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| Not in the fucking... 2143.31s - 2155.22s | What is, what the fuck? 2155.22s - 2162.28s | Starting with what is a question? 2162.28s - 2163.28s | The fuck? 2167.86s - 2169.78s | It is if you pay enough. 2169.78s - 2171.26s | Yeah, it's certainly a question, 2171.26s - 2173.62s | but if the answer was the fuck, 2173.62s - 2176.74s | which is, again, what my feeling is most of the time 2176.74s - 2178.90s | when I'm hosting this show. 2178.90s - 2180.34s | If that was the answer, I'd give it to you, 2180.34s - 2181.66s | but it's not what is what the fuck, 2181.66s - 2183.42s | what the fuck, what the fuck. 2183.42s - 2184.26s | Back to the board. 2184.26s - 2185.10s | Stepmoms. 2188.46s - 2191.66s | The fuck? 2191.66s - 2192.70s | That was a callback. 2192.70s - 2196.25s | NATO for five. 2196.25s - 2197.49s | What? 2197.49s - 2199.01s | NATO for five. 2199.01s - 2203.38s | Hacker Jeopardy spelled out in NATO code words. 2203.38s - 2205.58s | You get one chance in 10 seconds. 2207.30s - 2208.50s | Stepmom. 2208.50s - 2212.58s | What is Hotel Alpha Charlie Kilo Echo Romeo 2212.58s - 2217.58s | Juliet Echo Oscar Papa Alpha Romeo Delta Yankee? 2233.81s - 2237.17s | Maple syrup and call him the Canadian military. 2237.17s - 2238.29s | I fucking can't. 2238.29s - 2239.49s | Oh my God. 2239.49s - 2240.49s | Did that give you the Elsa? 2240.49s - 2241.33s | You hot? 2241.33s - 2242.77s | That was hot. 2242.77s - 2244.89s | Back to the board, stepmoms. 2244.89s - 2247.25s | Foxtrot, Oscar, uniform, Romeo. 2248.81s - 2250.89s | For four, got it. 2269.14s - 2272.02s | Training pays off because you've hit the daily double. 2272.02s - 2274.10s | Are you gonna wager any or all of it? 2274.10s - 2281.53s | Alpha Lima Lima. 2281.53s - 2283.77s | 800, here's your clue. 2283.77s - 2287.37s | DFIU spelled out in NATO code words. 2287.37s - 2290.65s | What is Delta Foxtrot India uniform? 2290.65s - 2301.22s | It's gonna be standing up like he did any of that shit. 2302.38s - 2303.58s | This guy's from the army. 2303.58s - 2305.74s | That guy knows shit, he's on my team. 2305.74s - 2308.02s | Hell yeah. 2308.02s - 2309.66s


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Hotel Alpha Charlie Kilo Echo Romeo 2212.58s - 2217.58s | Juliet Echo Oscar Papa Alpha Romeo Delta Yankee? 2233.81s - 2237.17s | Maple syrup and call him the Canadian military. 2237.17s - 2238.29s | I fucking can't. 2238.29s - 2239.49s | Oh my God. 2239.49s - 2240.49s | Did that give you the Elsa? 2240.49s - 2241.33s | You hot? 2241.33s - 2242.77s | That was hot. 2242.77s - 2244.89s | Back to the board, stepmoms. 2244.89s - 2247.25s | Foxtrot, Oscar, uniform, Romeo. 2248.81s - 2250.89s | For four, got it. 2269.14s - 2272.02s | Training pays off because you've hit the daily double. 2272.02s - 2274.10s | Are you gonna wager any or all of it? 2274.10s - 2281.53s | Alpha Lima Lima. 2281.53s - 2283.77s | 800, here's your clue. 2283.77s - 2287.37s | DFIU spelled out in NATO code words. 2287.37s - 2290.65s | What is Delta Foxtrot India uniform? 2290.65s - 2301.22s | It's gonna be standing up like he did any of that shit. 2302.38s - 2303.58s | This guy's from the army. 2303.58s - 2305.74s | That guy knows shit, he's on my team. 2305.74s - 2308.02s | Hell yeah. 2308.02s - 2309.66s | Stepmom, back to the board. 2309.66s - 2310.86s | 300. 2310.86s - 2311.70s | For three. 2312.70s - 2321.01s | The only Canadian province represented in the NATO effort. 2321.01s - 2322.17s | What is Quebec? 2322.17s - 2329.57s | What is Quebec is correct. 2329.57s - 2330.81s | Two categories left. 2330.81s - 2332.01s | Where are we going next? 2333.05s - 2335.09s | Let's fuck it up for 400 in the DFIU clue crew. 2335.09s - 2340.05s | DFIU clue crew for 400. 2340.05s - 2341.17s | Whitney Merrill. 2341.17s - 2348.24s | I hope you're having a good time. 2348.24s - 2353.24s | So this boozy company's CEO was held individually liable 2354.24s - 2357.48s | by the FTC, forcing security programs 2357.48s - 2360.68s | at all of his companies, including the future ones, 2360.68s - 2365.68s | with more than 25,000 clients after a 2020 breach 2366.08s - 2374.70s | that exposed 2.5 million. 2374.70s - 2377.58s | There's a guy that has a boozy company 2377.58s - 2382.10s | who is held individually liable for a data breach. 2382.10s - 2389.50s | What is that boozy company? 2389.50s - 2392.14s | What is


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| Stepmom, back to the board. 2309.66s - 2310.86s | 300. 2310.86s - 2311.70s | For three. 2312.70s - 2321.01s | The only Canadian province represented in the NATO effort. 2321.01s - 2322.17s | What is Quebec? 2322.17s - 2329.57s | What is Quebec is correct. 2329.57s - 2330.81s | Two categories left. 2330.81s - 2332.01s | Where are we going next? 2333.05s - 2335.09s | Let's fuck it up for 400 in the DFIU clue crew. 2335.09s - 2340.05s | DFIU clue crew for 400. 2340.05s - 2341.17s | Whitney Merrill. 2341.17s - 2348.24s | I hope you're having a good time. 2348.24s - 2353.24s | So this boozy company's CEO was held individually liable 2354.24s - 2357.48s | by the FTC, forcing security programs 2357.48s - 2360.68s | at all of his companies, including the future ones, 2360.68s - 2365.68s | with more than 25,000 clients after a 2020 breach 2366.08s - 2374.70s | that exposed 2.5 million. 2374.70s - 2377.58s | There's a guy that has a boozy company 2377.58s - 2382.10s | who is held individually liable for a data breach. 2382.10s - 2389.50s | What is that boozy company? 2389.50s - 2392.14s | What is Booz Allen Hamilton? 2394.38s - 2401.11s | That is wrong. 2401.11s - 2403.15s | You gotta get a Snowden in here or there. 2404.63s - 2422.43s | Going one. 2422.43s - 2423.63s | Drizzly was the answer, 2423.63s - 2429.29s | because it went on the board, calm your shit. 2429.29s - 2430.77s | For 500, please. 2430.77s - 2431.61s | No. 2432.49s - 2433.33s | For five. 2434.21s - 2437.97s | For 500, I'd like to bring Allie Dev on stage. 2437.97s - 2444.70s | Allie! 2444.70s - 2447.70s | Apparently this is the easier of my two questions. 2448.74s - 2451.82s | Did you know the string, give me a second, 2451.86s - 2456.86s | A-W-A-V-A-U-T-S-H, and similar, 2458.30s - 2462.30s | are found in the x86, Mac, and Linux binaries, 2462.30s - 2465.18s | primarily because the opcode for this instruction 2465.18s - 2468.94s | is O-X-41-HEX-41. 2468.94s - 2469.78s | Good luck. 2469.78s - 2473.53s | Can we get that all in NATO again? 2473.53s - 2474.53s | Okay, here we go. 2475.49s - 2484.74s | A-A-U-T-S-H. 2484.74s - 2487.38s | This is the easier of my two questions. 2487.42s - 2489.46s | Well then, you're


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Booz Allen Hamilton? 2394.38s - 2401.11s | That is wrong. 2401.11s - 2403.15s | You gotta get a Snowden in here or there. 2404.63s - 2422.43s | Going one. 2422.43s - 2423.63s | Drizzly was the answer, 2423.63s - 2429.29s | because it went on the board, calm your shit. 2429.29s - 2430.77s | For 500, please. 2430.77s - 2431.61s | No. 2432.49s - 2433.33s | For five. 2434.21s - 2437.97s | For 500, I'd like to bring Allie Dev on stage. 2437.97s - 2444.70s | Allie! 2444.70s - 2447.70s | Apparently this is the easier of my two questions. 2448.74s - 2451.82s | Did you know the string, give me a second, 2451.86s - 2456.86s | A-W-A-V-A-U-T-S-H, and similar, 2458.30s - 2462.30s | are found in the x86, Mac, and Linux binaries, 2462.30s - 2465.18s | primarily because the opcode for this instruction 2465.18s - 2468.94s | is O-X-41-HEX-41. 2468.94s - 2469.78s | Good luck. 2469.78s - 2473.53s | Can we get that all in NATO again? 2473.53s - 2474.53s | Okay, here we go. 2475.49s - 2484.74s | A-A-U-T-S-H. 2484.74s - 2487.38s | This is the easier of my two questions. 2487.42s - 2489.46s | Well then, you're fired. 2489.46s - 2490.74s | Okay, thank you. 2490.74s - 2492.58s | What is a function prologue? 2492.58s - 2493.42s | No. 2493.42s - 2495.06s | No, I'm sorry, that's incorrect. 2498.25s - 2500.97s | Listen, I really tried, I wanted to give a challenge. 2500.97s - 2503.93s | Going once. 2503.93s - 2504.77s | Going twice. 2504.77s - 2507.01s | They need the question again, should I do it one more time? 2507.01s - 2510.61s | Did you know the string, 2510.61s - 2521.90s | A-W-A-V-A, 2521.90s - 2526.90s | in the x64, Mac, and Linux binaries, 2528.30s - 2531.78s | primarily because the opcode, 2532.82s - 2537.82s | the opcode for this instruction is O-X-41. 2540.46s - 2542.54s | Somebody please, and there is someone in the audience, 2542.54s - 2543.82s | there's a couple people in the audience. 2543.82s - 2545.46s | No, there's some nerds out there for sure. 2545.46s - 2546.30s | There are nerds. 2546.30s - 2547.22s | There's certainly nerds out there, 2547.22s - 2548.46s | we're not just out here. 2548.46s - 2549.30s | I need this guy. 2549.30s - 2550.78s | Going once. 2550.78s - 2551.74s | Going twice. 2552.58s -


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fired. 2489.46s - 2490.74s | Okay, thank you. 2490.74s - 2492.58s | What is a function prologue? 2492.58s - 2493.42s | No. 2493.42s - 2495.06s | No, I'm sorry, that's incorrect. 2498.25s - 2500.97s | Listen, I really tried, I wanted to give a challenge. 2500.97s - 2503.93s | Going once. 2503.93s - 2504.77s | Going twice. 2504.77s - 2507.01s | They need the question again, should I do it one more time? 2507.01s - 2510.61s | Did you know the string, 2510.61s - 2521.90s | A-W-A-V-A, 2521.90s - 2526.90s | in the x64, Mac, and Linux binaries, 2528.30s - 2531.78s | primarily because the opcode, 2532.82s - 2537.82s | the opcode for this instruction is O-X-41. 2540.46s - 2542.54s | Somebody please, and there is someone in the audience, 2542.54s - 2543.82s | there's a couple people in the audience. 2543.82s - 2545.46s | No, there's some nerds out there for sure. 2545.46s - 2546.30s | There are nerds. 2546.30s - 2547.22s | There's certainly nerds out there, 2547.22s - 2548.46s | we're not just out here. 2548.46s - 2549.30s | I need this guy. 2549.30s - 2550.78s | Going once. 2550.78s - 2551.74s | Going twice. 2552.58s - 2553.62s | Oh, we'll give away some good shit for this. 2553.62s - 2555.70s | We're gonna give away a Flipper Zero 2555.70s - 2557.50s | from Sprocket Security. 2557.50s - 2559.54s | That guy in the white mask. 2559.54s - 2561.30s | No, no. 2561.30s - 2562.14s | Right here. 2562.14s - 2563.18s | What is yes? 2563.18s - 2564.02s | No. 2565.46s - 2566.70s | This is a hard one. 2566.70s - 2572.54s | This is why it's 500. 2572.54s - 2589.67s | Your wife is literally pointing to someone. 2589.67s - 2592.19s | Glad we have some reverse engineers in the crowd. 2594.47s - 2596.59s | All right, back to the board, pandas. 2597.91s - 2599.19s | For 100. 2599.87s - 2600.71s | For 100. 2600.71s - 2602.83s | All right, remember the category. 2602.83s - 2604.87s | Current DEF CON staff. 2604.87s - 2608.59s | Dark Tangent, Trogdor, Priest, Nikita. 2609.95s - 2611.23s | Wait, what? 2611.23s - 2613.19s | You don't remember the category that you just said? 2613.19s - 2614.03s | No. 2614.03s - 2615.31s | Fuck no. 2615.31s - 2617.31s | It was, um, actually. 2617.31s - 2620.01s | Oh. 2620.01s - 2622.05s


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2553.62s | Oh, we'll give away some good shit for this. 2553.62s - 2555.70s | We're gonna give away a Flipper Zero 2555.70s - 2557.50s | from Sprocket Security. 2557.50s - 2559.54s | That guy in the white mask. 2559.54s - 2561.30s | No, no. 2561.30s - 2562.14s | Right here. 2562.14s - 2563.18s | What is yes? 2563.18s - 2564.02s | No. 2565.46s - 2566.70s | This is a hard one. 2566.70s - 2572.54s | This is why it's 500. 2572.54s - 2589.67s | Your wife is literally pointing to someone. 2589.67s - 2592.19s | Glad we have some reverse engineers in the crowd. 2594.47s - 2596.59s | All right, back to the board, pandas. 2597.91s - 2599.19s | For 100. 2599.87s - 2600.71s | For 100. 2600.71s - 2602.83s | All right, remember the category. 2602.83s - 2604.87s | Current DEF CON staff. 2604.87s - 2608.59s | Dark Tangent, Trogdor, Priest, Nikita. 2609.95s - 2611.23s | Wait, what? 2611.23s - 2613.19s | You don't remember the category that you just said? 2613.19s - 2614.03s | No. 2614.03s - 2615.31s | Fuck no. 2615.31s - 2617.31s | It was, um, actually. 2617.31s - 2620.01s | Oh. 2620.01s - 2622.05s | Actually, it was, um, actually. 2624.66s - 2625.50s | Going once. 2628.50s - 2629.98s | Going twice. 2629.98s - 2631.54s | This is my favorite thing ever. 2632.54s - 2634.14s | All the elder millennials are like, 2634.14s - 2636.14s | fuck you, you motherfuckers. 2637.66s - 2639.30s | Gone out to the audience. 2639.30s - 2640.66s | Cyber guy. 2643.66s - 2646.50s | Not in the form of a question. 2646.50s - 2652.26s | Waving hands, Goonbats guy. 2652.26s - 2653.10s | What? 2653.10s - 2662.58s | No. 2662.58s - 2663.90s | From Strong Bad. 2663.90s - 2668.45s | And not on. 2668.45s - 2670.41s | See, there's gonna be a thing in these lists 2670.41s - 2672.41s | that doesn't belong, and you have to say, 2672.41s - 2677.85s | um, actually, that doesn't belong. 2677.85s - 2679.61s | Gotta explain all this shit to these people. 2679.61s - 2680.77s | Back to the board. 2682.01s - 2683.89s | I guess for 200. 2683.89s - 2685.45s | Well, you don't have a choice. 2686.45s - 2688.25s | Password dumping tool. 2688.25s - 2691.65s | PWDump, GSECDump, LULDump, or FGDump. 2692.61s - 2693.89s | Pandemonium. 2693.89s - 2697.29s


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| Actually, it was, um, actually. 2624.66s - 2625.50s | Going once. 2628.50s - 2629.98s | Going twice. 2629.98s - 2631.54s | This is my favorite thing ever. 2632.54s - 2634.14s | All the elder millennials are like, 2634.14s - 2636.14s | fuck you, you motherfuckers. 2637.66s - 2639.30s | Gone out to the audience. 2639.30s - 2640.66s | Cyber guy. 2643.66s - 2646.50s | Not in the form of a question. 2646.50s - 2652.26s | Waving hands, Goonbats guy. 2652.26s - 2653.10s | What? 2653.10s - 2662.58s | No. 2662.58s - 2663.90s | From Strong Bad. 2663.90s - 2668.45s | And not on. 2668.45s - 2670.41s | See, there's gonna be a thing in these lists 2670.41s - 2672.41s | that doesn't belong, and you have to say, 2672.41s - 2677.85s | um, actually, that doesn't belong. 2677.85s - 2679.61s | Gotta explain all this shit to these people. 2679.61s - 2680.77s | Back to the board. 2682.01s - 2683.89s | I guess for 200. 2683.89s - 2685.45s | Well, you don't have a choice. 2686.45s - 2688.25s | Password dumping tool. 2688.25s - 2691.65s | PWDump, GSECDump, LULDump, or FGDump. 2692.61s - 2693.89s | Pandemonium. 2693.89s - 2697.29s | Um, actually, what is bulldump? 2698.57s - 2704.06s | Is correct. 2704.06s - 2706.02s | Tenuous excitement from the crowd there. 2706.02s - 2706.98s | That was weird. 2708.06s - 2709.02s | Back to the board. 2713.39s - 2715.07s | The board. 2715.87s - 2717.67s | All right, for 300. 2717.67s - 2718.91s | What is 300? 2718.91s - 2720.43s | Oh, there you go. 2720.43s - 2723.59s | Electronic term, gyrator, foreignator, 2723.59s - 2729.60s | resonator, multivibrator. 2729.60s - 2730.60s | Pandemonium. 2730.60s - 2733.24s | What is, actually, foreignator? 2733.24s - 2734.44s | Is. 2734.44s - 2735.84s | Is that close enough? 2735.84s - 2739.38s | It's correct. 2739.38s - 2740.70s | We said what is. 2741.74s - 2742.58s | Fuck off. 2742.58s - 2744.58s | I'm the one doing this shit, not you. 2744.58s - 2745.98s | Get out of here. 2745.98s - 2747.06s | Back to the board. 2748.50s - 2749.50s | What is 400? 2750.54s - 2754.39s | It's a number on the board. 2754.39s - 2755.31s | Oh, okay. 2755.31s - 2756.63s | Programming language. 2756.63s - 2760.75s | Algol, geritol, Occam, or Malbolge. 2760.75s - 2761.67s | Pandemonium. 2762.71s - 2765.79s


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| Um, actually, what is bulldump? 2698.57s - 2704.06s | Is correct. 2704.06s - 2706.02s | Tenuous excitement from the crowd there. 2706.02s - 2706.98s | That was weird. 2708.06s - 2709.02s | Back to the board. 2713.39s - 2715.07s | The board. 2715.87s - 2717.67s | All right, for 300. 2717.67s - 2718.91s | What is 300? 2718.91s - 2720.43s | Oh, there you go. 2720.43s - 2723.59s | Electronic term, gyrator, foreignator, 2723.59s - 2729.60s | resonator, multivibrator. 2729.60s - 2730.60s | Pandemonium. 2730.60s - 2733.24s | What is, actually, foreignator? 2733.24s - 2734.44s | Is. 2734.44s - 2735.84s | Is that close enough? 2735.84s - 2739.38s | It's correct. 2739.38s - 2740.70s | We said what is. 2741.74s - 2742.58s | Fuck off. 2742.58s - 2744.58s | I'm the one doing this shit, not you. 2744.58s - 2745.98s | Get out of here. 2745.98s - 2747.06s | Back to the board. 2748.50s - 2749.50s | What is 400? 2750.54s - 2754.39s | It's a number on the board. 2754.39s - 2755.31s | Oh, okay. 2755.31s - 2756.63s | Programming language. 2756.63s - 2760.75s | Algol, geritol, Occam, or Malbolge. 2760.75s - 2761.67s | Pandemonium. 2762.71s - 2765.79s | What is, actually, geritol is like fiber 2765.79s - 2767.07s | for old ass people. 2768.39s - 2773.18s | Hey, Wynn, is that fiber for old ass people? 2773.18s - 2774.74s | Okay, that's just a box of wine, 2774.74s - 2776.30s | but I know that that's correct. 2780.58s - 2783.66s | And thankfully, the end of round one for five. 2784.66s - 2787.02s | Quantum crypto algorithm. 2787.02s - 2792.02s | Falcon, crystals, dilithium, sphinx plus, or pyramid. 2792.66s - 2800.35s | Going once. 2801.67s - 2803.35s | What is, actually, Falcon? 2803.35s - 2805.71s | Is that software from CrowdStrike? 2805.71s - 2811.25s | Unfortunately, it's also a crypto algorithm. 2811.25s - 2812.29s | That's incorrect. 2813.93s - 2816.41s | But I understand your CrowdStrike fetish. 2817.89s - 2820.69s | We love the things that hurt us, don't we? 2820.69s - 2824.82s | Kink shame. 2824.86s - 2826.54s | Kink shame, I just kink ask why. 2827.78s - 2832.88s | Back to the board, or pandemonium. 2832.88s - 2835.08s | Going once. 2835.08s - 2838.06s | Going twice. 2838.06s - 2839.10s | That guy. 2840.30s - 2860.82s | What is pyramid? 2860.82s - 2862.74s | If


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| What is, actually, geritol is like fiber 2765.79s - 2767.07s | for old ass people. 2768.39s - 2773.18s | Hey, Wynn, is that fiber for old ass people? 2773.18s - 2774.74s | Okay, that's just a box of wine, 2774.74s - 2776.30s | but I know that that's correct. 2780.58s - 2783.66s | And thankfully, the end of round one for five. 2784.66s - 2787.02s | Quantum crypto algorithm. 2787.02s - 2792.02s | Falcon, crystals, dilithium, sphinx plus, or pyramid. 2792.66s - 2800.35s | Going once. 2801.67s - 2803.35s | What is, actually, Falcon? 2803.35s - 2805.71s | Is that software from CrowdStrike? 2805.71s - 2811.25s | Unfortunately, it's also a crypto algorithm. 2811.25s - 2812.29s | That's incorrect. 2813.93s - 2816.41s | But I understand your CrowdStrike fetish. 2817.89s - 2820.69s | We love the things that hurt us, don't we? 2820.69s - 2824.82s | Kink shame. 2824.86s - 2826.54s | Kink shame, I just kink ask why. 2827.78s - 2832.88s | Back to the board, or pandemonium. 2832.88s - 2835.08s | Going once. 2835.08s - 2838.06s | Going twice. 2838.06s - 2839.10s | That guy. 2840.30s - 2860.82s | What is pyramid? 2860.82s - 2862.74s | If you need to piss, if you need to go, 2862.74s - 2865.14s | we're gonna switch the board to double jeopardy, 2865.14s - 2893.01s | and we'll be right back. 2893.01s - 2895.37s | Give me a slice of that shit. 2895.37s - 2897.61s | I want a slice of that motherfucking shit. 2897.61s - 2900.87s | Serve it, goddammit. 2902.31s - 2911.64s | All right, we move. 2911.64s - 2915.59s | The deciding round. 2915.63s - 2917.07s | The badge at DEF CON. 2917.07s - 2920.15s | Hey, Grifter. 2920.15s - 2920.99s | Grifter. 2920.99s - 2924.58s | I found something for ya. 2924.58s - 2940.42s | Your categories are cable diffusion, 2940.42s - 2966.42s | legacy of Kevin Mitnick, fishing for laughs. 2966.42s - 2968.42s | And so you have control of the board. 2968.42s - 2969.62s | Where are we going next? 2971.18s - 2973.30s | Show me the pwn for 1,000. 2973.30s - 2978.12s | Show me the pwn for 1,000. 2978.12s - 2980.68s | Continuing this year of cyber fail, 2980.68s - 2983.16s | this background chat company was popped 2983.16s - 2986.16s | for approximately three billion records. 2987.52s - 2988.68s | Pandemonium. 2988.68s


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you need to piss, if you need to go, 2862.74s - 2865.14s | we're gonna switch the board to double jeopardy, 2865.14s - 2893.01s | and we'll be right back. 2893.01s - 2895.37s | Give me a slice of that shit. 2895.37s - 2897.61s | I want a slice of that motherfucking shit. 2897.61s - 2900.87s | Serve it, goddammit. 2902.31s - 2911.64s | All right, we move. 2911.64s - 2915.59s | The deciding round. 2915.63s - 2917.07s | The badge at DEF CON. 2917.07s - 2920.15s | Hey, Grifter. 2920.15s - 2920.99s | Grifter. 2920.99s - 2924.58s | I found something for ya. 2924.58s - 2940.42s | Your categories are cable diffusion, 2940.42s - 2966.42s | legacy of Kevin Mitnick, fishing for laughs. 2966.42s - 2968.42s | And so you have control of the board. 2968.42s - 2969.62s | Where are we going next? 2971.18s - 2973.30s | Show me the pwn for 1,000. 2973.30s - 2978.12s | Show me the pwn for 1,000. 2978.12s - 2980.68s | Continuing this year of cyber fail, 2980.68s - 2983.16s | this background chat company was popped 2983.16s - 2986.16s | for approximately three billion records. 2987.52s - 2988.68s | Pandemonium. 2988.68s - 2990.84s | What is Equifax? 2990.84s - 2998.99s | What is Equifax is wrong. 2998.99s - 3001.41s | What's wrong, y'all? 3001.41s - 3003.33s | Stepmom or OnlyLands? 3004.45s - 3005.61s | Going once. 3006.53s - 3007.53s | Going twice. 3007.53s - 3008.37s | Right there, sir. 3008.37s - 3009.21s | Very confident. 3010.49s - 3012.95s | Incorrect. 3012.95s - 3013.79s | Right there. 3015.03s - 3018.39s | No. 3018.39s - 3020.07s | Say it again. 3021.39s - 3025.05s | No. 3025.85s - 3032.74s | National public data is OnlyLands. 3032.74s - 3036.59s | You're still in control. 3036.59s - 3038.15s | 400 or 800. 3039.03s - 3039.87s | For 800. 3041.99s - 3044.35s | This automobile dealer. 3044.35s - 3045.19s | Automobile dealer? 3045.19s - 3046.03s | Sure. 3046.03s - 3049.62s | Hold on. 3049.62s - 3050.46s | Got it. 3050.46s - 3052.86s | This automobile dealer services company 3052.86s - 3056.10s | caused the outage of over 15,000 car dealerships 3056.10s - 3058.50s | after a ransomware attack. 3058.50s - 3059.54s | Pandemonium. 3059.54s - 3061.86s | What is the company that wrecked my life recently? 3061.86s - 3063.50s | Also known as CDK. 3063.54s - 3064.54s


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- 2990.84s | What is Equifax? 2990.84s - 2998.99s | What is Equifax is wrong. 2998.99s - 3001.41s | What's wrong, y'all? 3001.41s - 3003.33s | Stepmom or OnlyLands? 3004.45s - 3005.61s | Going once. 3006.53s - 3007.53s | Going twice. 3007.53s - 3008.37s | Right there, sir. 3008.37s - 3009.21s | Very confident. 3010.49s - 3012.95s | Incorrect. 3012.95s - 3013.79s | Right there. 3015.03s - 3018.39s | No. 3018.39s - 3020.07s | Say it again. 3021.39s - 3025.05s | No. 3025.85s - 3032.74s | National public data is OnlyLands. 3032.74s - 3036.59s | You're still in control. 3036.59s - 3038.15s | 400 or 800. 3039.03s - 3039.87s | For 800. 3041.99s - 3044.35s | This automobile dealer. 3044.35s - 3045.19s | Automobile dealer? 3045.19s - 3046.03s | Sure. 3046.03s - 3049.62s | Hold on. 3049.62s - 3050.46s | Got it. 3050.46s - 3052.86s | This automobile dealer services company 3052.86s - 3056.10s | caused the outage of over 15,000 car dealerships 3056.10s - 3058.50s | after a ransomware attack. 3058.50s - 3059.54s | Pandemonium. 3059.54s - 3061.86s | What is the company that wrecked my life recently? 3061.86s - 3063.50s | Also known as CDK. 3063.54s - 3064.54s | What is CDK? 3064.54s - 3067.55s | Is correct. 3067.55s - 3069.43s | Coming to a tie for the lead. 3069.43s - 3071.03s | Where are we going next, Pandas? 3071.91s - 3072.75s | 600. 3072.75s - 3073.75s | For six. 3074.95s - 3077.07s | This file transfer software was used 3077.07s - 3080.87s | to compromise thousands of customers in May 2023. 3082.23s - 3083.59s | Pandas. 3083.59s - 3085.11s | What is Moveit? 3085.11s - 3086.95s | I like to move it, move it. 3086.95s - 3088.75s | I like to move it, move it. 3088.75s - 3089.71s | Electo. 3089.71s - 3093.40s | Correct. 3093.40s - 3094.24s | Pandas. 3094.24s - 3095.08s | 400. 3095.08s - 3096.32s | For four. 3096.32s - 3099.32s | This health care company was hit by a ransomware attack 3099.32s - 3101.64s | that may have affected up to a third of Americans 3101.64s - 3103.40s | in February 2024. 3104.60s - 3105.52s | Stepmoms. 3107.00s - 3109.60s | What is Change Healthcare? 3109.60s - 3111.12s | Incorrect. 3111.12s - 3112.08s | Oh, parent company? 3112.08s - 3112.92s | United? 3113.80s - 3114.80s | Pandemonium. 3114.80s - 3116.16s | What is


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| What is CDK? 3064.54s - 3067.55s | Is correct. 3067.55s - 3069.43s | Coming to a tie for the lead. 3069.43s - 3071.03s | Where are we going next, Pandas? 3071.91s - 3072.75s | 600. 3072.75s - 3073.75s | For six. 3074.95s - 3077.07s | This file transfer software was used 3077.07s - 3080.87s | to compromise thousands of customers in May 2023. 3082.23s - 3083.59s | Pandas. 3083.59s - 3085.11s | What is Moveit? 3085.11s - 3086.95s | I like to move it, move it. 3086.95s - 3088.75s | I like to move it, move it. 3088.75s - 3089.71s | Electo. 3089.71s - 3093.40s | Correct. 3093.40s - 3094.24s | Pandas. 3094.24s - 3095.08s | 400. 3095.08s - 3096.32s | For four. 3096.32s - 3099.32s | This health care company was hit by a ransomware attack 3099.32s - 3101.64s | that may have affected up to a third of Americans 3101.64s - 3103.40s | in February 2024. 3104.60s - 3105.52s | Stepmoms. 3107.00s - 3109.60s | What is Change Healthcare? 3109.60s - 3111.12s | Incorrect. 3111.12s - 3112.08s | Oh, parent company? 3112.08s - 3112.92s | United? 3113.80s - 3114.80s | Pandemonium. 3114.80s - 3116.16s | What is United Healthcare? 3116.16s - 3117.40s | What is United Healthcare? 3117.40s - 3122.18s | Is correct. 3122.18s - 3123.50s | I'll teach you to ring in. 3123.50s - 3124.74s | Back to the board. 3124.74s - 3125.86s | Who's our designated drinker? 3125.86s - 3127.02s | For 200. 3127.02s - 3129.78s | Why are you letting your designated drinker hit the button? 3129.78s - 3131.38s | That's fucked up. 3131.38s - 3133.06s | Pandemonium. 3133.06s - 3133.90s | It's over two. 3134.98s - 3138.42s | This asshat company with ridiculous fees 3138.42s - 3140.26s | gained VIP admission into the 3140.26s - 3142.58s | You Fucked It Up Large Data Breach Club 3142.58s - 3147.58s | when they lost the data of 560 million fucking people. 3149.58s - 3150.70s | Pandemonium. 3150.70s - 3153.14s | What is Fucking Ticketmaster? 3153.14s - 3159.23s | Fuck those guys, am I right? 3159.23s - 3161.19s | I've been saying their name on stage. 3161.19s - 3162.51s | I owe them a fee. 3164.15s - 3164.99s | Back to the board. 3164.99s - 3165.83s | Pandemonium. 3165.83s - 3167.43s | What is an illegal monopoly? 3167.43s - 3168.87s | Ooh. 3168.87s - 3170.27s |


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United Healthcare? 3116.16s - 3117.40s | What is United Healthcare? 3117.40s - 3122.18s | Is correct. 3122.18s - 3123.50s | I'll teach you to ring in. 3123.50s - 3124.74s | Back to the board. 3124.74s - 3125.86s | Who's our designated drinker? 3125.86s - 3127.02s | For 200. 3127.02s - 3129.78s | Why are you letting your designated drinker hit the button? 3129.78s - 3131.38s | That's fucked up. 3131.38s - 3133.06s | Pandemonium. 3133.06s - 3133.90s | It's over two. 3134.98s - 3138.42s | This asshat company with ridiculous fees 3138.42s - 3140.26s | gained VIP admission into the 3140.26s - 3142.58s | You Fucked It Up Large Data Breach Club 3142.58s - 3147.58s | when they lost the data of 560 million fucking people. 3149.58s - 3150.70s | Pandemonium. 3150.70s - 3153.14s | What is Fucking Ticketmaster? 3153.14s - 3159.23s | Fuck those guys, am I right? 3159.23s - 3161.19s | I've been saying their name on stage. 3161.19s - 3162.51s | I owe them a fee. 3164.15s - 3164.99s | Back to the board. 3164.99s - 3165.83s | Pandemonium. 3165.83s - 3167.43s | What is an illegal monopoly? 3167.43s - 3168.87s | Ooh. 3168.87s - 3170.27s | Phishing for laughs, 200. 3171.15s - 3173.35s | Phishing for laughs for two. 3173.35s - 3176.39s | A form of phishing that uses voice calls to trick users 3176.39s - 3179.27s | into divulging sensitive information. 3179.27s - 3180.11s | Pandas. 3181.19s - 3182.39s | What is vishing? 3182.39s - 3183.23s | What is phishing? 3183.23s - 3188.83s | Is correct. 3188.83s - 3189.67s | 400. 3189.67s - 3194.74s | For four. 3194.74s - 3197.22s | Quishing is a phishing style that makes the use 3197.22s - 3198.98s | of this data encoding mechanism. 3199.98s - 3200.94s | Pandemonium. 3200.94s - 3202.54s | What is QR code? 3202.54s - 3203.58s | What are QR codes? 3203.58s - 3207.35s | Is correct. 3207.35s - 3208.71s | 600. 3208.71s - 3211.85s | For six. 3211.85s - 3215.13s | This man in the middle tool is a man in the middle attack, 3215.13s - 3217.57s | a framework used for phishing login credentials 3217.57s - 3218.97s | along with session cookies. 3220.09s - 3221.17s | Stepmom. 3221.17s - 3223.01s | What is Evil Engines 2? 3223.97s - 3224.81s | That'll work. 3224.81s - 3225.65s | What is Evil Engine X? 3225.65s - 3226.49s


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Phishing for laughs, 200. 3171.15s - 3173.35s | Phishing for laughs for two. 3173.35s - 3176.39s | A form of phishing that uses voice calls to trick users 3176.39s - 3179.27s | into divulging sensitive information. 3179.27s - 3180.11s | Pandas. 3181.19s - 3182.39s | What is vishing? 3182.39s - 3183.23s | What is phishing? 3183.23s - 3188.83s | Is correct. 3188.83s - 3189.67s | 400. 3189.67s - 3194.74s | For four. 3194.74s - 3197.22s | Quishing is a phishing style that makes the use 3197.22s - 3198.98s | of this data encoding mechanism. 3199.98s - 3200.94s | Pandemonium. 3200.94s - 3202.54s | What is QR code? 3202.54s - 3203.58s | What are QR codes? 3203.58s - 3207.35s | Is correct. 3207.35s - 3208.71s | 600. 3208.71s - 3211.85s | For six. 3211.85s - 3215.13s | This man in the middle tool is a man in the middle attack, 3215.13s - 3217.57s | a framework used for phishing login credentials 3217.57s - 3218.97s | along with session cookies. 3220.09s - 3221.17s | Stepmom. 3221.17s - 3223.01s | What is Evil Engines 2? 3223.97s - 3224.81s | That'll work. 3224.81s - 3225.65s | What is Evil Engine X? 3225.65s - 3226.49s | Is correct. 3237.91s - 3239.75s | For eight, of course. 3239.75s - 3252.70s | For eight? 3252.70s - 3254.78s | This is an interesting situation 3254.78s - 3256.94s | because if you double, you can take the lead 3257.50s - 3259.14s | of your 1800, how much are you gonna wager? 3259.14s - 3259.98s | It's fine. 3259.98s - 3261.90s | Alpha Lima Lima. 3261.90s - 3268.08s | All of it! 3268.08s - 3269.24s | Here is your clue. 3270.32s - 3273.44s | Want to test your organization's resistance to phishing? 3273.44s - 3286.66s | You might try out this open source framework. 3286.66s - 3288.74s | Don't say anything like wombat. 3288.74s - 3293.56s | Uh, what is Evil Engines 2? 3293.56s - 3302.86s | Audience, you know what to do. 3302.86s - 3306.02s | And for some reason, we've brought back the penalty 3306.02s - 3310.96s | for fucking it up, the null banana. 3310.96s - 3312.96s | Because apparently, bananas and beer 3312.96s - 3316.44s | sit in your stomach really well together. 3316.44s - 3319.76s | This is brought to you by Potassium and Kazakhstan, 3319.76s - 3322.68s | the number one exporter of potassium.


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| Is correct. 3237.91s - 3239.75s | For eight, of course. 3239.75s - 3252.70s | For eight? 3252.70s - 3254.78s | This is an interesting situation 3254.78s - 3256.94s | because if you double, you can take the lead 3257.50s - 3259.14s | of your 1800, how much are you gonna wager? 3259.14s - 3259.98s | It's fine. 3259.98s - 3261.90s | Alpha Lima Lima. 3261.90s - 3268.08s | All of it! 3268.08s - 3269.24s | Here is your clue. 3270.32s - 3273.44s | Want to test your organization's resistance to phishing? 3273.44s - 3286.66s | You might try out this open source framework. 3286.66s - 3288.74s | Don't say anything like wombat. 3288.74s - 3293.56s | Uh, what is Evil Engines 2? 3293.56s - 3302.86s | Audience, you know what to do. 3302.86s - 3306.02s | And for some reason, we've brought back the penalty 3306.02s - 3310.96s | for fucking it up, the null banana. 3310.96s - 3312.96s | Because apparently, bananas and beer 3312.96s - 3316.44s | sit in your stomach really well together. 3316.44s - 3319.76s | This is brought to you by Potassium and Kazakhstan, 3319.76s - 3322.68s | the number one exporter of potassium. 3323.84s - 3325.64s | Stepmom, it's not all lost. 3325.64s - 3327.44s | You're in control of the board. 3327.44s - 3329.76s | Oh, oh wait, hold on, we gotta do the thing. 3331.60s - 3333.52s | Multicolored shirt guy. 3334.96s - 3336.60s | What is Go Fish? 3336.60s - 3339.68s | What, you don't have any three of clubs? 3339.68s - 3348.98s | Okay, that's correct! 3348.98s - 3350.98s | All right, Stepmoms. 3350.98s - 3354.22s | Bring on the Singularity for 1,000, please. 3354.22s - 3358.46s | Singularity for, what's going on there? 3358.46s - 3366.68s | I like that. 3366.68s - 3368.96s | Sure, I was just staring. 3368.96s - 3371.48s | I was a spectator for like 30 seconds there. 3371.48s - 3374.72s | Stepmom, you said Singularity for 1,000. 3374.72s - 3376.92s | Singularity for, okay. 3376.92s - 3380.92s | In 2016, users of this Microsoft AI chatbot 3381.88s - 3384.56s | taught it to become a Nazi racist. 3385.64s - 3386.76s | OnlyLands. 3386.76s - 3388.20s | Who is Sidney? 3388.20s - 3389.28s | Who is Sidney? 3389.28s - 3390.60s | Wrong, I got it, I got it, I got it. 3390.60s - 3391.64s


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3323.84s - 3325.64s | Stepmom, it's not all lost. 3325.64s - 3327.44s | You're in control of the board. 3327.44s - 3329.76s | Oh, oh wait, hold on, we gotta do the thing. 3331.60s - 3333.52s | Multicolored shirt guy. 3334.96s - 3336.60s | What is Go Fish? 3336.60s - 3339.68s | What, you don't have any three of clubs? 3339.68s - 3348.98s | Okay, that's correct! 3348.98s - 3350.98s | All right, Stepmoms. 3350.98s - 3354.22s | Bring on the Singularity for 1,000, please. 3354.22s - 3358.46s | Singularity for, what's going on there? 3358.46s - 3366.68s | I like that. 3366.68s - 3368.96s | Sure, I was just staring. 3368.96s - 3371.48s | I was a spectator for like 30 seconds there. 3371.48s - 3374.72s | Stepmom, you said Singularity for 1,000. 3374.72s - 3376.92s | Singularity for, okay. 3376.92s - 3380.92s | In 2016, users of this Microsoft AI chatbot 3381.88s - 3384.56s | taught it to become a Nazi racist. 3385.64s - 3386.76s | OnlyLands. 3386.76s - 3388.20s | Who is Sidney? 3388.20s - 3389.28s | Who is Sidney? 3389.28s - 3390.60s | Wrong, I got it, I got it, I got it. 3390.60s - 3391.64s | Is wrong. 3391.64s - 3392.68s | Pandemonium? 3392.68s - 3393.60s | Who is Tay? 3393.60s - 3394.44s | Who is Tay? 3395.64s - 3400.25s | I'm going through my racist era, is correct! 3400.25s - 3402.25s | There's multiple options there, really. 3403.85s - 3406.09s | Pandas, you're well in the lead. 3406.09s - 3409.73s | Let's keep up the artificial intelligence for 800. 3409.73s - 3413.85s | For Singularity, 800. 3413.85s - 3415.33s | Dan, which is short for this, 3415.33s - 3418.17s | is a jailbreak for chat GPT 3418.17s - 3423.33s | designed to get it to unlock an alter ego. 3423.33s - 3425.37s | What is do anything now? 3425.37s - 3434.86s | What is do anything now is correct! 3434.86s - 3437.02s | Win GPT for 400. 3437.02s - 3438.46s | Win GPT. 3438.46s - 3441.14s | For those of you that may not know this category, 3441.14s - 3446.02s | we literally tell Win a word and ask him to describe it 3446.02s - 3448.86s | and we just record whatever happens after that 3448.86s - 3450.14s | and now it's your clue. 3451.98s - 3467.73s | For 400. 3467.73s - 3470.73s |


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| Is wrong. 3391.64s - 3392.68s | Pandemonium? 3392.68s - 3393.60s | Who is Tay? 3393.60s - 3394.44s | Who is Tay? 3395.64s - 3400.25s | I'm going through my racist era, is correct! 3400.25s - 3402.25s | There's multiple options there, really. 3403.85s - 3406.09s | Pandas, you're well in the lead. 3406.09s - 3409.73s | Let's keep up the artificial intelligence for 800. 3409.73s - 3413.85s | For Singularity, 800. 3413.85s - 3415.33s | Dan, which is short for this, 3415.33s - 3418.17s | is a jailbreak for chat GPT 3418.17s - 3423.33s | designed to get it to unlock an alter ego. 3423.33s - 3425.37s | What is do anything now? 3425.37s - 3434.86s | What is do anything now is correct! 3434.86s - 3437.02s | Win GPT for 400. 3437.02s - 3438.46s | Win GPT. 3438.46s - 3441.14s | For those of you that may not know this category, 3441.14s - 3446.02s | we literally tell Win a word and ask him to describe it 3446.02s - 3448.86s | and we just record whatever happens after that 3448.86s - 3450.14s | and now it's your clue. 3451.98s - 3467.73s | For 400. 3467.73s - 3470.73s | You've got 300, but this is Double Hacker Jeopardy 3470.73s - 3473.77s | where you can wager up to 1,000 points. 3473.77s - 3475.25s | 1,000 fucking points. 3475.25s - 3480.46s | 1,000 fucking points, he says. 3480.46s - 3483.46s | The fucking files work. 3483.46s - 3485.02s | Over to you, fake win. 3495.27s - 3502.13s | Oh, that's almost there. 3502.13s - 3504.25s | You know, I've always wiped, 3504.25s - 3507.41s | was it Chile or Ecuador, London, 3507.41s - 3509.25s | and then back in the US. 3509.25s - 3511.77s | I don't know where the fuck this guy is. 3511.77s - 3516.50s | Damn leaky. 3519.67s - 3522.11s | Good luck with that. 3522.11s - 3523.91s | Who is Julian Assange? 3523.91s - 3536.50s | Is Parade! 3536.50s - 3539.66s | What is wrong with your brain? 3539.66s - 3543.93s | I listened to that like five fucking times before the show 3543.93s - 3546.49s | and I didn't even know what the hell he was talking about. 3546.49s - 3548.77s | Win GPT with anal beads. 3548.77s - 3550.01s | What's up? 3550.01s - 3551.29s | Are you cheating with anal beads? 3551.29s -


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You've got 300, but this is Double Hacker Jeopardy 3470.73s - 3473.77s | where you can wager up to 1,000 points. 3473.77s - 3475.25s | 1,000 fucking points. 3475.25s - 3480.46s | 1,000 fucking points, he says. 3480.46s - 3483.46s | The fucking files work. 3483.46s - 3485.02s | Over to you, fake win. 3495.27s - 3502.13s | Oh, that's almost there. 3502.13s - 3504.25s | You know, I've always wiped, 3504.25s - 3507.41s | was it Chile or Ecuador, London, 3507.41s - 3509.25s | and then back in the US. 3509.25s - 3511.77s | I don't know where the fuck this guy is. 3511.77s - 3516.50s | Damn leaky. 3519.67s - 3522.11s | Good luck with that. 3522.11s - 3523.91s | Who is Julian Assange? 3523.91s - 3536.50s | Is Parade! 3536.50s - 3539.66s | What is wrong with your brain? 3539.66s - 3543.93s | I listened to that like five fucking times before the show 3543.93s - 3546.49s | and I didn't even know what the hell he was talking about. 3546.49s - 3548.77s | Win GPT with anal beads. 3548.77s - 3550.01s | What's up? 3550.01s - 3551.29s | Are you cheating with anal beads? 3551.29s - 3553.77s | Somebody messaging you through anal beads. 3553.77s - 3555.65s | Listen, man, just because you got them 3555.65s - 3557.09s | doesn't mean everybody else does. 3557.09s - 3559.73s | Only land back to the board. 3559.73s - 3561.53s | 600. 3565.09s - 3567.45s | I have to send back to the board. 3567.45s - 3570.45s | Win for six. 3570.45s - 3577.86s | Take it away, win. 3577.86s - 3580.66s | You know, silver is supposed to be spacemen 3580.66s - 3582.66s | from 1950s movies. 3582.66s - 3585.38s | And then you put edges on it 3585.38s - 3587.06s | and batteries on it. 3587.06s - 3588.82s | And what the fuck? 3588.82s - 3590.70s | Does it even work anymore? 3590.70s - 3595.37s | All right, just to recap for everybody, 3595.37s - 3597.25s | we had it's silver. 3597.25s - 3598.69s | It's got edges on it. 3598.69s - 3603.46s | And what the fuck does it even work anymore? 3603.46s - 3605.50s | I know, I think that's all the information you need 3605.54s - 3608.90s | because I think everybody else there knows what it is. 3608.90s - 3610.82s | What the


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3553.77s | Somebody messaging you through anal beads. 3553.77s - 3555.65s | Listen, man, just because you got them 3555.65s - 3557.09s | doesn't mean everybody else does. 3557.09s - 3559.73s | Only land back to the board. 3559.73s - 3561.53s | 600. 3565.09s - 3567.45s | I have to send back to the board. 3567.45s - 3570.45s | Win for six. 3570.45s - 3577.86s | Take it away, win. 3577.86s - 3580.66s | You know, silver is supposed to be spacemen 3580.66s - 3582.66s | from 1950s movies. 3582.66s - 3585.38s | And then you put edges on it 3585.38s - 3587.06s | and batteries on it. 3587.06s - 3588.82s | And what the fuck? 3588.82s - 3590.70s | Does it even work anymore? 3590.70s - 3595.37s | All right, just to recap for everybody, 3595.37s - 3597.25s | we had it's silver. 3597.25s - 3598.69s | It's got edges on it. 3598.69s - 3603.46s | And what the fuck does it even work anymore? 3603.46s - 3605.50s | I know, I think that's all the information you need 3605.54s - 3608.90s | because I think everybody else there knows what it is. 3608.90s - 3610.82s | What the fuck? 3610.82s - 3612.18s | Well, you're going to have to hit the button 3612.18s - 3614.06s | before you say what the fuck. 3614.06s - 3616.66s | And if the answer is the fuck, you'll get it right. 3618.66s - 3621.02s | Going once. 3621.02s - 3622.54s | Going twice. 3622.54s - 3625.06s | Wi-Fi cactus. 3625.06s - 3630.88s | What is a cyber truck is correct. 3630.88s - 3633.24s | You should feel bad for knowing that. 3633.24s - 3638.85s | Twice important to donate to elder care, folks. 3638.89s - 3641.41s | Back to the board, OnlyLands. 3641.41s - 3642.73s | 800. 3642.73s - 3643.93s | Well, thank you. 3643.93s - 3644.93s | Win for eight. 3644.93s - 3654.09s | Go for it, win. 3654.09s - 3657.89s | Shit, I mean, they tried it. 3657.89s - 3660.21s | The Congress fucked this up and then they unfucked it. 3660.21s - 3661.05s | Then it's refucked. 3661.05s - 3663.09s | I don't know the state of fuckery 3663.09s - 3665.17s | of what's going on right now with this. 3665.17s - 3667.49s | And I know this is not helping you at all 3667.49s - 3669.37s | because


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fuck? 3610.82s - 3612.18s | Well, you're going to have to hit the button 3612.18s - 3614.06s | before you say what the fuck. 3614.06s - 3616.66s | And if the answer is the fuck, you'll get it right. 3618.66s - 3621.02s | Going once. 3621.02s - 3622.54s | Going twice. 3622.54s - 3625.06s | Wi-Fi cactus. 3625.06s - 3630.88s | What is a cyber truck is correct. 3630.88s - 3633.24s | You should feel bad for knowing that. 3633.24s - 3638.85s | Twice important to donate to elder care, folks. 3638.89s - 3641.41s | Back to the board, OnlyLands. 3641.41s - 3642.73s | 800. 3642.73s - 3643.93s | Well, thank you. 3643.93s - 3644.93s | Win for eight. 3644.93s - 3654.09s | Go for it, win. 3654.09s - 3657.89s | Shit, I mean, they tried it. 3657.89s - 3660.21s | The Congress fucked this up and then they unfucked it. 3660.21s - 3661.05s | Then it's refucked. 3661.05s - 3663.09s | I don't know the state of fuckery 3663.09s - 3665.17s | of what's going on right now with this. 3665.17s - 3667.49s | And I know this is not helping you at all 3667.49s - 3669.37s | because it's not positive. 3669.37s - 3675.57s | It's not negative, but it is. 3675.57s - 3677.01s | Panamonium. 3677.01s - 3678.53s | What is quantum? 3678.53s - 3682.40s | What is quantum is wrong. 3682.40s - 3683.60s | What is net neutrality? 3683.60s - 3697.94s | What is net neutrality? 3697.94s - 3698.78s | Thank you. 3698.78s - 3699.78s | Back to the board. 3699.78s - 3700.82s | Thanks, Congress. 3700.82s - 3701.66s | Fuck that guy. 3701.66s - 3702.58s | Oh, sorry. 3702.58s - 3704.42s | Win GPT for 1,000. 3704.42s - 3705.86s | Win for 1,000. 3705.86s - 3710.74s | Oh God. 3710.74s - 3712.62s | Well, you think IBM. 3712.62s - 3715.38s | You've heard of IBM, you know, big blue and all that. 3715.38s - 3717.94s | But then there's always a number associated 3717.94s - 3720.10s | with the not IBM. 3720.10s - 3723.46s | And it begins with the number nine, number nine, 3723.58s - 3724.50s | number nine. 3725.94s - 3726.78s | What the fuck? 3726.78s - 3727.62s | Only Lambert's right. 3727.62s - 3728.98s | What the fuck is quad nine? 3730.42s - 3731.42s | What is quad nine? 3731.42s - 3732.62s


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it's not positive. 3669.37s - 3675.57s | It's not negative, but it is. 3675.57s - 3677.01s | Panamonium. 3677.01s - 3678.53s | What is quantum? 3678.53s - 3682.40s | What is quantum is wrong. 3682.40s - 3683.60s | What is net neutrality? 3683.60s - 3697.94s | What is net neutrality? 3697.94s - 3698.78s | Thank you. 3698.78s - 3699.78s | Back to the board. 3699.78s - 3700.82s | Thanks, Congress. 3700.82s - 3701.66s | Fuck that guy. 3701.66s - 3702.58s | Oh, sorry. 3702.58s - 3704.42s | Win GPT for 1,000. 3704.42s - 3705.86s | Win for 1,000. 3705.86s - 3710.74s | Oh God. 3710.74s - 3712.62s | Well, you think IBM. 3712.62s - 3715.38s | You've heard of IBM, you know, big blue and all that. 3715.38s - 3717.94s | But then there's always a number associated 3717.94s - 3720.10s | with the not IBM. 3720.10s - 3723.46s | And it begins with the number nine, number nine, 3723.58s - 3724.50s | number nine. 3725.94s - 3726.78s | What the fuck? 3726.78s - 3727.62s | Only Lambert's right. 3727.62s - 3728.98s | What the fuck is quad nine? 3730.42s - 3731.42s | What is quad nine? 3731.42s - 3732.62s | No, that's incorrect. 3734.14s - 3738.70s | Play it again. 3738.70s - 3740.58s | Well, you think IBM. 3740.58s - 3743.34s | You've heard of IBM, you know, big blue and all that. 3743.34s - 3745.90s | But then there's always a number associated 3745.90s - 3748.06s | with the not IBM. 3748.06s - 3751.42s | And it begins with the number nine, number nine, 3751.42s - 3753.18s | number nine. 3758.52s - 3760.32s | It's almost as if there was a theme. 3761.48s - 3767.06s | Going once. 3767.06s - 3783.42s | Going twice. 3783.42s - 3784.66s | Oh, I'm just kidding. 3784.66s - 3788.62s | Give them a lockpick set from Covert Instruments. 3788.62s - 3795.42s | Courtesy of the CW asset team. 3795.42s - 3796.26s | Back to the board. 3796.26s - 3799.40s | Only Lambert. 3799.40s - 3801.76s | Can I have 30 fucking years for 400? 3801.76s - 3803.20s | Hey, hacker jeopardy. 3803.20s - 3811.12s | 30 fucking years, am I right? 3811.12s - 3813.80s | Lou Montulli creates the blink element 3813.80s - 3815.68s | while working at this company. 3816.56s - 3823.33s | Oh, by the way, these are all things


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| No, that's incorrect. 3734.14s - 3738.70s | Play it again. 3738.70s - 3740.58s | Well, you think IBM. 3740.58s - 3743.34s | You've heard of IBM, you know, big blue and all that. 3743.34s - 3745.90s | But then there's always a number associated 3745.90s - 3748.06s | with the not IBM. 3748.06s - 3751.42s | And it begins with the number nine, number nine, 3751.42s - 3753.18s | number nine. 3758.52s - 3760.32s | It's almost as if there was a theme. 3761.48s - 3767.06s | Going once. 3767.06s - 3783.42s | Going twice. 3783.42s - 3784.66s | Oh, I'm just kidding. 3784.66s - 3788.62s | Give them a lockpick set from Covert Instruments. 3788.62s - 3795.42s | Courtesy of the CW asset team. 3795.42s - 3796.26s | Back to the board. 3796.26s - 3799.40s | Only Lambert. 3799.40s - 3801.76s | Can I have 30 fucking years for 400? 3801.76s - 3803.20s | Hey, hacker jeopardy. 3803.20s - 3811.12s | 30 fucking years, am I right? 3811.12s - 3813.80s | Lou Montulli creates the blink element 3813.80s - 3815.68s | while working at this company. 3816.56s - 3823.33s | Oh, by the way, these are all things from 1994 in tech. 3823.33s - 3826.01s | I'm surprised you were alive. 3826.01s - 3831.90s | Lou Montulli, that guy from that company, huh? 3833.38s - 3835.22s | Did you know Lou? 3835.22s - 3836.06s | No, you didn't? 3836.06s - 3836.90s | Okay. 3836.90s - 3840.78s | Going once. 3840.78s - 3842.50s | Who is Netscape? 3842.50s - 3843.78s | What is Netscape? 3843.78s - 3846.58s | Is correct. 3846.58s - 3848.30s | He said who, not what. 3848.30s - 3849.26s | He said who. 3849.26s - 3850.30s | You're an idiot. 3851.54s - 3853.06s | Back to the board. 3853.06s - 3854.94s | All right, let's try it for six. 3854.94s - 3856.06s | For 600. 3857.06s - 3859.70s | This gentleman founded the W3C. 3864.18s - 3865.86s | Who is Tim Berners-Lee? 3865.86s - 3871.17s | Is correct. 3871.17s - 3872.65s | We've got a game, folks. 3872.65s - 3873.97s | Only lands you're in control 3873.97s - 3876.53s | and in striking distance of the lead. 3876.53s - 3878.33s | Let's try it for 1,000. 3878.33s - 3880.61s | 30 fucking years for 1,000. 3881.61s - 3888.34s | The seller came online and was originally


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from 1994 in tech. 3823.33s - 3826.01s | I'm surprised you were alive. 3826.01s - 3831.90s | Lou Montulli, that guy from that company, huh? 3833.38s - 3835.22s | Did you know Lou? 3835.22s - 3836.06s | No, you didn't? 3836.06s - 3836.90s | Okay. 3836.90s - 3840.78s | Going once. 3840.78s - 3842.50s | Who is Netscape? 3842.50s - 3843.78s | What is Netscape? 3843.78s - 3846.58s | Is correct. 3846.58s - 3848.30s | He said who, not what. 3848.30s - 3849.26s | He said who. 3849.26s - 3850.30s | You're an idiot. 3851.54s - 3853.06s | Back to the board. 3853.06s - 3854.94s | All right, let's try it for six. 3854.94s - 3856.06s | For 600. 3857.06s - 3859.70s | This gentleman founded the W3C. 3864.18s - 3865.86s | Who is Tim Berners-Lee? 3865.86s - 3871.17s | Is correct. 3871.17s - 3872.65s | We've got a game, folks. 3872.65s - 3873.97s | Only lands you're in control 3873.97s - 3876.53s | and in striking distance of the lead. 3876.53s - 3878.33s | Let's try it for 1,000. 3878.33s - 3880.61s | 30 fucking years for 1,000. 3881.61s - 3888.34s | The seller came online and was originally called Kadabra 3888.38s - 3896.30s | in 1994. 3896.30s - 3897.50s | Pandemonium. 3897.50s - 3898.86s | What is eBay? 3898.86s - 3900.18s | What is eBay? 3900.18s - 3905.06s | Is incorrect. 3905.06s - 3907.02s | Only lands are stepmoms. 3908.42s - 3910.58s | Only lands are stepmoms is a phrase I say 3910.58s - 3912.26s | in my house all the time. 3914.14s - 3915.18s | Going once. 3918.62s - 3922.24s | Going twice. 3922.24s - 3924.56s | I mean, if that's not his name, I'm gonna go over here. 3924.56s - 3925.56s | Right here, Reddit. 3926.72s - 3927.68s | What is Amazon? 3927.68s - 3933.37s | Is correct. 3933.37s - 3936.77s | Well, Only Lands, through no fault of your own, 3936.77s - 3939.01s | you are now in the lead. 3939.01s - 3940.37s | Excuse you. 3940.37s - 3941.65s | You worked on that shit. 3941.65s - 3946.17s | Congratulations, guy that changes hard drives at AWS. 3946.17s - 3947.49s | Back to the board. 3947.49s - 3953.17s | Fair enough, we'll take it for eight. 3953.17s - 3955.77s | Yeah, 30 for eight. 3955.77s - 3958.25s | This storage system was released by Iomega


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called Kadabra 3888.38s - 3896.30s | in 1994. 3896.30s - 3897.50s | Pandemonium. 3897.50s - 3898.86s | What is eBay? 3898.86s - 3900.18s | What is eBay? 3900.18s - 3905.06s | Is incorrect. 3905.06s - 3907.02s | Only lands are stepmoms. 3908.42s - 3910.58s | Only lands are stepmoms is a phrase I say 3910.58s - 3912.26s | in my house all the time. 3914.14s - 3915.18s | Going once. 3918.62s - 3922.24s | Going twice. 3922.24s - 3924.56s | I mean, if that's not his name, I'm gonna go over here. 3924.56s - 3925.56s | Right here, Reddit. 3926.72s - 3927.68s | What is Amazon? 3927.68s - 3933.37s | Is correct. 3933.37s - 3936.77s | Well, Only Lands, through no fault of your own, 3936.77s - 3939.01s | you are now in the lead. 3939.01s - 3940.37s | Excuse you. 3940.37s - 3941.65s | You worked on that shit. 3941.65s - 3946.17s | Congratulations, guy that changes hard drives at AWS. 3946.17s - 3947.49s | Back to the board. 3947.49s - 3953.17s | Fair enough, we'll take it for eight. 3953.17s - 3955.77s | Yeah, 30 for eight. 3955.77s - 3958.25s | This storage system was released by Iomega 3958.25s - 3961.49s | and you can hold a whopping 100 megabytes. 3961.49s - 3964.73s | Let's hope, Steve, shout out to Steve Gibson, right? 3964.73s - 3966.45s | Let's hope you spin right. 3967.45s - 3968.57s | Pandemonium. 3968.61s - 3971.89s | What is a zip disk? 3971.89s - 3975.54s | That's incorrect. 3975.54s - 3976.94s | That's correct? 3976.94s - 3977.86s | Oh, that's correct. 3977.86s - 3979.62s | You changed it, motherfucker. 3981.06s - 3983.06s | A jazz is a gigabyte. 3983.06s - 3986.41s | I fucking know, don't. 3986.41s - 3988.77s | I still have one because I do forensics 3988.77s - 3990.29s | and it still shows up. 3990.29s - 3992.33s | I still have a little bit of PTSD 3992.33s - 3995.69s | from hearing that click, click, click, click, click. 3995.69s - 3997.37s | All right, Pandemonium, you're in control 3997.37s - 3998.85s | and back in the lead. 3998.85s - 4000.49s | 30 fucking years for 200. 4000.49s - 4001.69s | 30 for two. 4003.25s - 4005.33s | Windows 95 wasn't available yet 4005.33s - 4007.57s | so we were stuck with this version. 4007.57s - 4008.61s | Pandemonium. 4008.61s - 4010.37s


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3958.25s - 3961.49s | and you can hold a whopping 100 megabytes. 3961.49s - 3964.73s | Let's hope, Steve, shout out to Steve Gibson, right? 3964.73s - 3966.45s | Let's hope you spin right. 3967.45s - 3968.57s | Pandemonium. 3968.61s - 3971.89s | What is a zip disk? 3971.89s - 3975.54s | That's incorrect. 3975.54s - 3976.94s | That's correct? 3976.94s - 3977.86s | Oh, that's correct. 3977.86s - 3979.62s | You changed it, motherfucker. 3981.06s - 3983.06s | A jazz is a gigabyte. 3983.06s - 3986.41s | I fucking know, don't. 3986.41s - 3988.77s | I still have one because I do forensics 3988.77s - 3990.29s | and it still shows up. 3990.29s - 3992.33s | I still have a little bit of PTSD 3992.33s - 3995.69s | from hearing that click, click, click, click, click. 3995.69s - 3997.37s | All right, Pandemonium, you're in control 3997.37s - 3998.85s | and back in the lead. 3998.85s - 4000.49s | 30 fucking years for 200. 4000.49s - 4001.69s | 30 for two. 4003.25s - 4005.33s | Windows 95 wasn't available yet 4005.33s - 4007.57s | so we were stuck with this version. 4007.57s - 4008.61s | Pandemonium. 4008.61s - 4010.37s | What is Windows 3.1? 4010.37s - 4012.05s | What is 3.1 is correct. 4012.05s - 4019.58s | That came up a year after. 4019.58s - 4022.54s | All right, Pandos. 4022.54s - 4024.42s | Singularity 600. 4024.42s - 4025.94s | Singularity for six. 4026.98s - 4029.42s | The singularity is near by this offer 4029.42s - 4031.06s | pauses the point in time 4031.06s - 4032.98s | where technological growth and innovation 4032.98s - 4036.22s | becomes irreversible and potentially malicious. 4036.22s - 4037.46s | Sounds like fucking no. 4040.58s - 4041.78s | You guys fucking read? 4042.74s - 4044.66s | The singularity is near. 4044.66s - 4045.50s | It's near. 4045.50s - 4046.82s | It's near. 4046.82s - 4047.66s | Go to the gray beard. 4047.66s - 4048.50s | Somebody sample that 4048.50s - 4050.34s | for some sick beats next year, please. 4052.06s - 4053.22s | Going once. 4053.22s - 4054.66s | Gray beard. 4054.66s - 4055.70s | Going twice. 4055.70s - 4056.62s | Gray beard. 4056.62s - 4058.74s | Wavy McTelegraph. 4058.74s - 4061.78s | Fuck that guy, gray beard. 4061.78s - 4063.22s | No. 4063.22s - 4065.96s | Right here. 4065.96s - 4068.52s | What


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| What is Windows 3.1? 4010.37s - 4012.05s | What is 3.1 is correct. 4012.05s - 4019.58s | That came up a year after. 4019.58s - 4022.54s | All right, Pandos. 4022.54s - 4024.42s | Singularity 600. 4024.42s - 4025.94s | Singularity for six. 4026.98s - 4029.42s | The singularity is near by this offer 4029.42s - 4031.06s | pauses the point in time 4031.06s - 4032.98s | where technological growth and innovation 4032.98s - 4036.22s | becomes irreversible and potentially malicious. 4036.22s - 4037.46s | Sounds like fucking no. 4040.58s - 4041.78s | You guys fucking read? 4042.74s - 4044.66s | The singularity is near. 4044.66s - 4045.50s | It's near. 4045.50s - 4046.82s | It's near. 4046.82s - 4047.66s | Go to the gray beard. 4047.66s - 4048.50s | Somebody sample that 4048.50s - 4050.34s | for some sick beats next year, please. 4052.06s - 4053.22s | Going once. 4053.22s - 4054.66s | Gray beard. 4054.66s - 4055.70s | Going twice. 4055.70s - 4056.62s | Gray beard. 4056.62s - 4058.74s | Wavy McTelegraph. 4058.74s - 4061.78s | Fuck that guy, gray beard. 4061.78s - 4063.22s | No. 4063.22s - 4065.96s | Right here. 4065.96s - 4068.52s | What is Ray, who's Ray Kurzweil is correct. 4072.80s - 4075.52s | Covert Instruments lock pick set 4075.56s - 4082.94s | brought to you by the CDW Offset team. 4082.94s - 4084.74s | We've just got a handful of clues to go. 4084.74s - 4086.38s | Pandemonium, you're in the lead. 4086.38s - 4087.78s | Fishing for a thousand. 4087.78s - 4089.26s | Fishing for a thousand. 4090.54s - 4093.38s | This technique makes use of slightly misspelled websites 4093.38s - 4095.02s | to trick users into thinking 4095.02s - 4097.46s | they are visiting a legitimate domain. 4097.46s - 4098.58s | Stepmoms. 4098.58s - 4100.06s | What is domain squatting? 4101.14s - 4102.30s | I'm gonna give that to you. 4102.30s - 4107.25s | Type of squatting or domain squatting is correct. 4107.25s - 4108.09s | Fuck off. 4108.09s - 4109.49s | It's correct. 4109.49s - 4111.61s | You fucked it up. 4112.33s - 4113.65s | I don't care what you're saying right now. 4113.65s - 4115.49s | It's correct. 4115.49s - 4116.33s | Stepmoms. 4116.33s - 4117.29s | Oh, are you disappointed in Vegas? 4117.29s - 4118.77s | Fuck off. 4118.77s - 4121.21s | Has anyone visited lintowspin.com? 4122.09s


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is Ray, who's Ray Kurzweil is correct. 4072.80s - 4075.52s | Covert Instruments lock pick set 4075.56s - 4082.94s | brought to you by the CDW Offset team. 4082.94s - 4084.74s | We've just got a handful of clues to go. 4084.74s - 4086.38s | Pandemonium, you're in the lead. 4086.38s - 4087.78s | Fishing for a thousand. 4087.78s - 4089.26s | Fishing for a thousand. 4090.54s - 4093.38s | This technique makes use of slightly misspelled websites 4093.38s - 4095.02s | to trick users into thinking 4095.02s - 4097.46s | they are visiting a legitimate domain. 4097.46s - 4098.58s | Stepmoms. 4098.58s - 4100.06s | What is domain squatting? 4101.14s - 4102.30s | I'm gonna give that to you. 4102.30s - 4107.25s | Type of squatting or domain squatting is correct. 4107.25s - 4108.09s | Fuck off. 4108.09s - 4109.49s | It's correct. 4109.49s - 4111.61s | You fucked it up. 4112.33s - 4113.65s | I don't care what you're saying right now. 4113.65s - 4115.49s | It's correct. 4115.49s - 4116.33s | Stepmoms. 4116.33s - 4117.29s | Oh, are you disappointed in Vegas? 4117.29s - 4118.77s | Fuck off. 4118.77s - 4121.21s | Has anyone visited lintowspin.com? 4122.09s - 4128.26s | You spin me right round, baby, right round. 4128.26s - 4129.90s | Sorry for the image that I put 4129.90s - 4131.46s | into all of your brains there. 4132.38s - 4133.42s | Back to the board. 4136.06s - 4138.82s | Stepmoms will take Mitnick for a thousand, please. 4138.82s - 4139.98s | Mitnick for a thousand. 4139.98s - 4141.62s | I would welcome to the stage, 4141.62s - 4154.10s | to read this category, Kimberly Mitnick. 4154.10s - 4155.58s | I do wanna clarify, 4155.58s - 4158.70s | I am actually not the daughter of Kevin, okay? 4159.74s - 4162.70s | There has been quite a few people messaging me on LinkedIn 4162.70s - 4164.46s | and a few other places on X. 4164.46s - 4165.82s | I am actually the wife, okay? 4165.82s - 4166.98s | There was an age gap. 4168.62s - 4169.94s | I had to say that 4169.94s - 4171.90s | because there's been a lot of people messaging me going, 4171.90s - 4174.58s | I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your father. 4174.58s - 4176.78s | He was not my father. 4176.78s - 4178.02s | I'm putting it


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- 4128.26s | You spin me right round, baby, right round. 4128.26s - 4129.90s | Sorry for the image that I put 4129.90s - 4131.46s | into all of your brains there. 4132.38s - 4133.42s | Back to the board. 4136.06s - 4138.82s | Stepmoms will take Mitnick for a thousand, please. 4138.82s - 4139.98s | Mitnick for a thousand. 4139.98s - 4141.62s | I would welcome to the stage, 4141.62s - 4154.10s | to read this category, Kimberly Mitnick. 4154.10s - 4155.58s | I do wanna clarify, 4155.58s - 4158.70s | I am actually not the daughter of Kevin, okay? 4159.74s - 4162.70s | There has been quite a few people messaging me on LinkedIn 4162.70s - 4164.46s | and a few other places on X. 4164.46s - 4165.82s | I am actually the wife, okay? 4165.82s - 4166.98s | There was an age gap. 4168.62s - 4169.94s | I had to say that 4169.94s - 4171.90s | because there's been a lot of people messaging me going, 4171.90s - 4174.58s | I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your father. 4174.58s - 4176.78s | He was not my father. 4176.78s - 4178.02s | I'm putting it out there. 4185.00s - 4185.84s | Here we go. 4185.84s - 4186.68s | We're at three? 4186.68s - 4187.52s | What? 4187.52s - 4188.36s | Wait, wait, wait. 4188.36s - 4189.20s | Right off that screen right there. 4189.20s - 4190.04s | Like a shoot. 4190.04s - 4191.48s | Okay. 4191.48s - 4194.56s | After he was freed, free Kevin, 4194.56s - 4199.94s | stickers were replaced with these. 4199.94s - 4201.78s | What has put Kevin back? 4201.78s - 4216.45s | What has put Kevin back is unfortunately correct. 4216.45s - 4218.57s | Back to the board, sir, sir, sir, sir. 4218.57s - 4219.41s | Back to the board. 4219.41s - 4220.73s | We're going for 800. 4220.73s - 4222.53s | Oh, she comes right back. 4222.53s - 4225.77s | Stay up here, come on, love, stay up here. 4225.77s - 4226.61s | For how many? 4226.61s - 4227.45s | Eight. 4227.45s - 4228.29s | Eight for eight. 4231.14s - 4234.38s | Lifetime early entry to H.J. 4236.10s - 4236.94s | Oh, no, no, no. 4236.94s - 4237.78s | Sorry. 4237.78s - 4241.50s | Wait, wait. 4241.50s - 4242.34s | Hello. 4242.34s - 4256.16s | Kevin was arrested in


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out there. 4185.00s - 4185.84s | Here we go. 4185.84s - 4186.68s | We're at three? 4186.68s - 4187.52s | What? 4187.52s - 4188.36s | Wait, wait, wait. 4188.36s - 4189.20s | Right off that screen right there. 4189.20s - 4190.04s | Like a shoot. 4190.04s - 4191.48s | Okay. 4191.48s - 4194.56s | After he was freed, free Kevin, 4194.56s - 4199.94s | stickers were replaced with these. 4199.94s - 4201.78s | What has put Kevin back? 4201.78s - 4216.45s | What has put Kevin back is unfortunately correct. 4216.45s - 4218.57s | Back to the board, sir, sir, sir, sir. 4218.57s - 4219.41s | Back to the board. 4219.41s - 4220.73s | We're going for 800. 4220.73s - 4222.53s | Oh, she comes right back. 4222.53s - 4225.77s | Stay up here, come on, love, stay up here. 4225.77s - 4226.61s | For how many? 4226.61s - 4227.45s | Eight. 4227.45s - 4228.29s | Eight for eight. 4231.14s - 4234.38s | Lifetime early entry to H.J. 4236.10s - 4236.94s | Oh, no, no, no. 4236.94s - 4237.78s | Sorry. 4237.78s - 4241.50s | Wait, wait. 4241.50s - 4242.34s | Hello. 4242.34s - 4256.16s | Kevin was arrested in this state in 1995. 4256.16s - 4276.41s | Going twice. 4276.41s - 4277.69s | Back to the board. 4279.25s - 4280.21s | 600, please. 4280.21s - 4281.25s | For six. 4283.33s - 4285.17s | During his prosecution, 4285.17s - 4288.69s | Kevin was accused of being able to whistle modem codes 4288.69s - 4291.13s | that could cause a catastrophic event. 4292.25s - 4293.69s | Panamonium. 4293.69s - 4297.21s | What is the nuclear launch codes? 4297.21s - 4311.94s | What is the nu- 4311.94s - 4312.78s | Oh, sorry. 4312.78s - 4315.78s | Kevin Mitnick for 400. 4315.78s - 4318.46s | This book was published in 2012 4318.46s - 4319.58s | and was subtitled, 4319.58s - 4325.88s | My Adventures as a World's Most Wanted Hacker. 4325.88s - 4328.44s | What is the art of deception? 4328.44s - 4334.08s | Incorrect. 4334.08s - 4335.64s | What is Ghost in the Wires? 4335.64s - 4336.96s | What is Ghost in the Wires? 4336.96s - 4345.10s | Correct. 4345.10s - 4345.94s | Yes, we are. 4345.94s - 4346.78s | Yes, we are. 4346.78s - 4347.66s | 200, please. 4347.66s - 4350.96s | For two. 4351.00s - 4354.00s | The number of


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this state in 1995. 4256.16s - 4276.41s | Going twice. 4276.41s - 4277.69s | Back to the board. 4279.25s - 4280.21s | 600, please. 4280.21s - 4281.25s | For six. 4283.33s - 4285.17s | During his prosecution, 4285.17s - 4288.69s | Kevin was accused of being able to whistle modem codes 4288.69s - 4291.13s | that could cause a catastrophic event. 4292.25s - 4293.69s | Panamonium. 4293.69s - 4297.21s | What is the nuclear launch codes? 4297.21s - 4311.94s | What is the nu- 4311.94s - 4312.78s | Oh, sorry. 4312.78s - 4315.78s | Kevin Mitnick for 400. 4315.78s - 4318.46s | This book was published in 2012 4318.46s - 4319.58s | and was subtitled, 4319.58s - 4325.88s | My Adventures as a World's Most Wanted Hacker. 4325.88s - 4328.44s | What is the art of deception? 4328.44s - 4334.08s | Incorrect. 4334.08s - 4335.64s | What is Ghost in the Wires? 4335.64s - 4336.96s | What is Ghost in the Wires? 4336.96s - 4345.10s | Correct. 4345.10s - 4345.94s | Yes, we are. 4345.94s - 4346.78s | Yes, we are. 4346.78s - 4347.66s | 200, please. 4347.66s - 4350.96s | For two. 4351.00s - 4354.00s | The number of years Kevin served in prison. 4355.20s - 4356.04s | I have an idea, 4356.04s - 4356.88s | but I'm not gonna say it. 4356.88s - 4366.28s | Going twice. 4366.28s - 4379.22s | Hey, this one's to the audience. 4379.22s - 4380.06s | You rock. 4380.98s - 4384.79s | You fucking rock. 4384.79s - 4386.19s | That was too fucking many. 4387.31s - 4388.63s | I just wanna say, 4388.63s - 4400.56s | Kimberly, thank you so much for spending your time. 4400.56s - 4401.72s | We've got answer. 4401.72s - 4403.52s | We got three clues left. 4403.52s - 4407.75s | Stepmom, you're in control of the board. 4407.75s - 4409.71s | Win GPT for 200, please. 4409.71s - 4425.76s | Win GPT for 200. 4426.60s - 4427.44s | Crucial moment here, 4427.44s - 4430.16s | because this could change the outcome of the game. 4430.16s - 4432.52s | 1,400 points is how much you wager, 4432.52s - 4433.76s | or you can wager. 4433.76s - 4436.40s | How much are you going to wager, Stepmoms? 4436.40s - 4438.00s | How much can I wager? 4438.00s - 4439.88s | Up to 1,400. 4439.88s - 4442.16s | How much do


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years Kevin served in prison. 4355.20s - 4356.04s | I have an idea, 4356.04s - 4356.88s | but I'm not gonna say it. 4356.88s - 4366.28s | Going twice. 4366.28s - 4379.22s | Hey, this one's to the audience. 4379.22s - 4380.06s | You rock. 4380.98s - 4384.79s | You fucking rock. 4384.79s - 4386.19s | That was too fucking many. 4387.31s - 4388.63s | I just wanna say, 4388.63s - 4400.56s | Kimberly, thank you so much for spending your time. 4400.56s - 4401.72s | We've got answer. 4401.72s - 4403.52s | We got three clues left. 4403.52s - 4407.75s | Stepmom, you're in control of the board. 4407.75s - 4409.71s | Win GPT for 200, please. 4409.71s - 4425.76s | Win GPT for 200. 4426.60s - 4427.44s | Crucial moment here, 4427.44s - 4430.16s | because this could change the outcome of the game. 4430.16s - 4432.52s | 1,400 points is how much you wager, 4432.52s - 4433.76s | or you can wager. 4433.76s - 4436.40s | How much are you going to wager, Stepmoms? 4436.40s - 4438.00s | How much can I wager? 4438.00s - 4439.88s | Up to 1,400. 4439.88s - 4442.16s | How much do we get in alimony? 4442.16s - 4443.64s | Not enough. 4443.64s - 4446.06s | True. 4446.06s - 4454.01s | 200. 4454.01s - 4465.68s | Here, 1,400. 4465.68s - 4469.64s | Your score for 2,800 or nothing at all. 4469.64s - 4476.20s | Here is this well-constructed win GPT clue. 4476.20s - 4479.60s | What a randomizer. 4479.60s - 4482.84s | Wow, that would be number five, 4482.84s - 4486.52s | or it began at seven, 4486.52s - 4488.16s | and I forget when they put the tent up 4488.16s - 4490.72s | and blew up the air conditioning, 4490.72s - 4498.14s | but then there was pool three. 4498.14s - 4499.10s | Play it again. 4500.34s - 4502.30s | What is the Alexis Park? 4502.30s - 4517.26s | What? 4517.26s - 4518.10s | I can't hear pool three 4518.10s - 4520.94s | without feeling very weird things inside my body. 4521.90s - 4523.02s | Back to the board. 4523.02s - 4524.94s | Well, that's because I was in, nevermind. 4524.94s - 4527.06s | Back to the board, Stepmom. 4527.06s - 4528.74s | I have to pee, so 400, please. 4529.78s - 4530.82s | That doesn't make sense. 4530.82s - 4533.18s


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we get in alimony? 4442.16s - 4443.64s | Not enough. 4443.64s - 4446.06s | True. 4446.06s - 4454.01s | 200. 4454.01s - 4465.68s | Here, 1,400. 4465.68s - 4469.64s | Your score for 2,800 or nothing at all. 4469.64s - 4476.20s | Here is this well-constructed win GPT clue. 4476.20s - 4479.60s | What a randomizer. 4479.60s - 4482.84s | Wow, that would be number five, 4482.84s - 4486.52s | or it began at seven, 4486.52s - 4488.16s | and I forget when they put the tent up 4488.16s - 4490.72s | and blew up the air conditioning, 4490.72s - 4498.14s | but then there was pool three. 4498.14s - 4499.10s | Play it again. 4500.34s - 4502.30s | What is the Alexis Park? 4502.30s - 4517.26s | What? 4517.26s - 4518.10s | I can't hear pool three 4518.10s - 4520.94s | without feeling very weird things inside my body. 4521.90s - 4523.02s | Back to the board. 4523.02s - 4524.94s | Well, that's because I was in, nevermind. 4524.94s - 4527.06s | Back to the board, Stepmom. 4527.06s - 4528.74s | I have to pee, so 400, please. 4529.78s - 4530.82s | That doesn't make sense. 4530.82s - 4533.18s | Back to the singularity for 400. 4533.18s - 4535.86s | Google's foray into computing with chat GPT 4535.86s - 4539.86s | led to people thinking that this zodiacal, 4539.86s - 4541.22s | zodiacal? 4541.22s - 4544.14s | Zodiacal chatbot was too woke. 4545.58s - 4546.58s | Oly lands. 4546.58s - 4547.54s | Who is Gemini? 4547.54s - 4549.10s | Who is Gemini is correct, 4549.10s - 4553.08s | and for the last clue on the board. 4554.36s - 4556.72s | This computer system played an actual Jeopardy 4556.72s - 4559.24s | and won decisively in its first match 4559.24s - 4561.00s | against the like of Ken Jennings. 4562.00s - 4563.76s | Oly lands. 4563.76s - 4564.88s | Who is Watson? 4564.88s - 4567.04s | Who is IBM's Watson? 4567.04s - 4569.76s | Is awkward that you got that right, 4569.76s - 4573.29s | but that's correct. 4573.29s - 4574.13s | All right. 4575.29s - 4578.81s | Hey, audience, thank you for sticking with all the bullshit. 4578.81s - 4582.21s | Are we ready for final hacker Jeopardy? 4582.25s - 4589.10s | Are we ready? 4589.10s - 4601.06s | The likes who are gonna count up the beer. 4601.06s


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| Back to the singularity for 400. 4533.18s - 4535.86s | Google's foray into computing with chat GPT 4535.86s - 4539.86s | led to people thinking that this zodiacal, 4539.86s - 4541.22s | zodiacal? 4541.22s - 4544.14s | Zodiacal chatbot was too woke. 4545.58s - 4546.58s | Oly lands. 4546.58s - 4547.54s | Who is Gemini? 4547.54s - 4549.10s | Who is Gemini is correct, 4549.10s - 4553.08s | and for the last clue on the board. 4554.36s - 4556.72s | This computer system played an actual Jeopardy 4556.72s - 4559.24s | and won decisively in its first match 4559.24s - 4561.00s | against the like of Ken Jennings. 4562.00s - 4563.76s | Oly lands. 4563.76s - 4564.88s | Who is Watson? 4564.88s - 4567.04s | Who is IBM's Watson? 4567.04s - 4569.76s | Is awkward that you got that right, 4569.76s - 4573.29s | but that's correct. 4573.29s - 4574.13s | All right. 4575.29s - 4578.81s | Hey, audience, thank you for sticking with all the bullshit. 4578.81s - 4582.21s | Are we ready for final hacker Jeopardy? 4582.25s - 4589.10s | Are we ready? 4589.10s - 4601.06s | The likes who are gonna count up the beer. 4601.06s - 4608.69s | Finish it now. 4608.69s - 4610.01s | We got 15 locked in. 4611.29s - 4613.53s | All right, pandemonium, 15 beers, 4613.53s - 4620.75s | taking them to 5,300 points. 4620.75s - 4623.24s | 16. 4623.24s - 4626.31s | Stepmom? 4626.31s - 4630.91s | Well, my stepmom drank 20 beers, 4630.91s - 4633.63s | taking them to 4,800 points. 4635.19s - 4638.78s | Oly lands. 4638.78s - 4641.30s | While everybody else was going to take a tinkle 4641.30s - 4643.10s | during the round change, 4643.10s - 4644.70s | they stayed here and drank beers, 4644.70s - 4648.26s | which brought them also with 20 beers, 4648.26s - 4653.26s | taking them into the lead with 5,700 points. 4666.49s - 4668.61s | The scores are locked in. 4669.53s - 4671.41s | Have we distributed the papers? 4671.41s - 4675.02s | We're all doing it all. 4675.02s - 4676.26s | We're giving people cards. 4679.25s - 4680.57s | All right. 4680.57s - 4683.37s | Well, as you know, final hacker Jeopardy 4683.37s - 4685.25s | is going to come down to one category, 4685.25s - 4686.73s | one category alone. 4687.61s - 4690.29s | Where these teams


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- 4608.69s | Finish it now. 4608.69s - 4610.01s | We got 15 locked in. 4611.29s - 4613.53s | All right, pandemonium, 15 beers, 4613.53s - 4620.75s | taking them to 5,300 points. 4620.75s - 4623.24s | 16. 4623.24s - 4626.31s | Stepmom? 4626.31s - 4630.91s | Well, my stepmom drank 20 beers, 4630.91s - 4633.63s | taking them to 4,800 points. 4635.19s - 4638.78s | Oly lands. 4638.78s - 4641.30s | While everybody else was going to take a tinkle 4641.30s - 4643.10s | during the round change, 4643.10s - 4644.70s | they stayed here and drank beers, 4644.70s - 4648.26s | which brought them also with 20 beers, 4648.26s - 4653.26s | taking them into the lead with 5,700 points. 4666.49s - 4668.61s | The scores are locked in. 4669.53s - 4671.41s | Have we distributed the papers? 4671.41s - 4675.02s | We're all doing it all. 4675.02s - 4676.26s | We're giving people cards. 4679.25s - 4680.57s | All right. 4680.57s - 4683.37s | Well, as you know, final hacker Jeopardy 4683.37s - 4685.25s | is going to come down to one category, 4685.25s - 4686.73s | one category alone. 4687.61s - 4690.29s | Where these teams can wager any or all of their points. 4691.45s - 4692.61s | For the black badge, 4692.61s - 4696.57s | consider your wagers remarkably carefully. 4696.57s - 4700.41s | This is for lifetime admission to DEF CON, 4700.41s - 4704.77s | which by the year 2050 is gonna be about $15,000. 4707.38s - 4712.38s | Your final, final black badge hacker Jeopardy category is 4714.14s - 4719.52s | Dante's Inferno. 4719.56s - 4727.54s | You can wager any or all of your points. 4727.54s - 4728.50s | While they're wagering, 4728.50s - 4730.42s | I just want to give a shout out 4730.42s - 4732.70s | to all of the other people on this team 4732.70s - 4737.02s | that worked remarkably hard. 4737.02s - 4740.02s | Make me only look like kind of a dumb ass 4740.02s - 4747.82s | when I'm standing behind this podium. 4747.82s - 4750.18s | Everyone, the wagers are locked in. 4750.18s - 4752.06s | It's time for our final clue. 4752.98s - 4754.18s | And it is. 4756.18s - 4760.26s | The seven layers of the OSI networking model 4761.10s - 4764.14s | in correct reverse alphabetical order. 4764.14s - 4766.82s | You


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can wager any or all of their points. 4691.45s - 4692.61s | For the black badge, 4692.61s - 4696.57s | consider your wagers remarkably carefully. 4696.57s - 4700.41s | This is for lifetime admission to DEF CON, 4700.41s - 4704.77s | which by the year 2050 is gonna be about $15,000. 4707.38s - 4712.38s | Your final, final black badge hacker Jeopardy category is 4714.14s - 4719.52s | Dante's Inferno. 4719.56s - 4727.54s | You can wager any or all of your points. 4727.54s - 4728.50s | While they're wagering, 4728.50s - 4730.42s | I just want to give a shout out 4730.42s - 4732.70s | to all of the other people on this team 4732.70s - 4737.02s | that worked remarkably hard. 4737.02s - 4740.02s | Make me only look like kind of a dumb ass 4740.02s - 4747.82s | when I'm standing behind this podium. 4747.82s - 4750.18s | Everyone, the wagers are locked in. 4750.18s - 4752.06s | It's time for our final clue. 4752.98s - 4754.18s | And it is. 4756.18s - 4760.26s | The seven layers of the OSI networking model 4761.10s - 4764.14s | in correct reverse alphabetical order. 4764.14s - 4766.82s | You have 60 seconds. 4766.82s - 4832.42s | Good luck. 4832.42s - 4834.10s | Pens down, lift tile, lookalikes, 4834.10s - 4865.02s | please take away their papers. 4865.02s - 4866.62s | Actually, I have a thing that I want to do 4866.62s - 4868.38s | before we reveal any of the answers, 4868.38s - 4871.34s | which is I have one more big prize to give away. 4872.74s - 4875.94s | This is a Sparrow Challenge Vault, 4875.94s - 4879.46s | which is the lock picking safe cracking. 4879.58s - 4880.42s | Please. 4881.54s - 4882.94s | I don't like that at all. 4883.82s - 4886.82s | And what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna give you one chance, 4886.82s - 4888.10s | one person from the audience, 4888.10s - 4890.34s | one chance to come up and stand by me. 4890.34s - 4892.86s | If you know that you know this, 4892.86s - 4894.02s | come right here for it. 4894.02s - 4895.34s | Are you ready? 4895.34s - 4896.74s | But you're gonna endure the audience. 4896.74s - 4899.58s | And audience, if they fuck it up, 4899.58s - 4901.98s | I need you to let them hear


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have 60 seconds. 4766.82s - 4832.42s | Good luck. 4832.42s - 4834.10s | Pens down, lift tile, lookalikes, 4834.10s - 4865.02s | please take away their papers. 4865.02s - 4866.62s | Actually, I have a thing that I want to do 4866.62s - 4868.38s | before we reveal any of the answers, 4868.38s - 4871.34s | which is I have one more big prize to give away. 4872.74s - 4875.94s | This is a Sparrow Challenge Vault, 4875.94s - 4879.46s | which is the lock picking safe cracking. 4879.58s - 4880.42s | Please. 4881.54s - 4882.94s | I don't like that at all. 4883.82s - 4886.82s | And what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna give you one chance, 4886.82s - 4888.10s | one person from the audience, 4888.10s - 4890.34s | one chance to come up and stand by me. 4890.34s - 4892.86s | If you know that you know this, 4892.86s - 4894.02s | come right here for it. 4894.02s - 4895.34s | Are you ready? 4895.34s - 4896.74s | But you're gonna endure the audience. 4896.74s - 4899.58s | And audience, if they fuck it up, 4899.58s - 4901.98s | I need you to let them hear it worse than anything 4901.98s - 4904.82s | you've ever given to a contestant. 4904.82s - 4905.98s | All right, come on. 4905.98s - 4914.44s | Come on. 4915.20s - 4916.04s | All right. 4916.04s - 4921.67s | Yeah, what is transport, session, presentation, 4921.67s - 4945.16s | physical, network, data link, application? 4945.16s - 4947.84s | Well, let's see if they got it fucking right. 4947.84s - 4951.00s | First and foremost, we're gonna go to Stepmom. 4951.00s - 4952.00s | I tried, man. 4952.00s - 4954.28s | As you are a third place team. 4954.28s - 4955.12s | Really? 4956.20s - 4958.32s | Yeah, apparently you didn't drink enough beer 4958.32s - 4962.13s | as designated beer drinker. 4962.13s - 4966.69s | Your answer was je ne give a fuck pas 4966.69s - 4968.61s | just like your Stepmom. 4976.59s - 4979.23s | Oh my God, I feel like Dude Perfect right now. 4979.23s - 4981.55s | Lentile wins. 4981.55s - 4986.03s | And their wager was no actual points. 4986.03s - 4987.19s | Zero. 4987.19s - 4988.59s | So they remain. 4988.59s - 4996.19s | You's a fucking rat. 4996.19s - 5000.58s | And they said transport,


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it worse than anything 4901.98s - 4904.82s | you've ever given to a contestant. 4904.82s - 4905.98s | All right, come on. 4905.98s - 4914.44s | Come on. 4915.20s - 4916.04s | All right. 4916.04s - 4921.67s | Yeah, what is transport, session, presentation, 4921.67s - 4945.16s | physical, network, data link, application? 4945.16s - 4947.84s | Well, let's see if they got it fucking right. 4947.84s - 4951.00s | First and foremost, we're gonna go to Stepmom. 4951.00s - 4952.00s | I tried, man. 4952.00s - 4954.28s | As you are a third place team. 4954.28s - 4955.12s | Really? 4956.20s - 4958.32s | Yeah, apparently you didn't drink enough beer 4958.32s - 4962.13s | as designated beer drinker. 4962.13s - 4966.69s | Your answer was je ne give a fuck pas 4966.69s - 4968.61s | just like your Stepmom. 4976.59s - 4979.23s | Oh my God, I feel like Dude Perfect right now. 4979.23s - 4981.55s | Lentile wins. 4981.55s - 4986.03s | And their wager was no actual points. 4986.03s - 4987.19s | Zero. 4987.19s - 4988.59s | So they remain. 4988.59s - 4996.19s | You's a fucking rat. 4996.19s - 5000.58s | And they said transport, session, 5000.58s - 5005.58s | presentation, physical, network, data, and application, 5006.42s - 5007.66s | which is the right order, 5007.70s - 5016.55s | but it's not in the form of a question. 5016.55s - 5019.23s | Epic fail you could have imagined. 5019.23s - 5035.41s | God, this is so exciting. 5038.47s - 5040.59s | And it comes down to this. 5041.75s - 5044.47s | Only Lands, who was in the lead the whole time, 5044.47s - 5047.87s | pretty much, for 5,700. 5047.87s - 5049.55s | That's a fucking lie. 5049.55s - 5051.27s | And before I read their answer, 5051.27s - 5053.15s | I'm gonna tell you what they wagered. 5054.51s - 5055.87s | They wagered, hold on. 5055.87s - 5058.39s | Now somebody, give me one of those goon photographers. 5058.39s - 5060.15s | Take a picture of this shit. 5060.15s - 5066.15s | They wagered 5,700, all of it. 5066.15s - 5069.31s | So they either have one of the highest scores 5069.31s - 5071.07s | in Hacker Jeopardy history, 5071.07s - 5074.83s | or they have pissed away the chance for a black match 5074.83s - 5081.85s | into the wind, just like the


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session, 5000.58s - 5005.58s | presentation, physical, network, data, and application, 5006.42s - 5007.66s | which is the right order, 5007.70s - 5016.55s | but it's not in the form of a question. 5016.55s - 5019.23s | Epic fail you could have imagined. 5019.23s - 5035.41s | God, this is so exciting. 5038.47s - 5040.59s | And it comes down to this. 5041.75s - 5044.47s | Only Lands, who was in the lead the whole time, 5044.47s - 5047.87s | pretty much, for 5,700. 5047.87s - 5049.55s | That's a fucking lie. 5049.55s - 5051.27s | And before I read their answer, 5051.27s - 5053.15s | I'm gonna tell you what they wagered. 5054.51s - 5055.87s | They wagered, hold on. 5055.87s - 5058.39s | Now somebody, give me one of those goon photographers. 5058.39s - 5060.15s | Take a picture of this shit. 5060.15s - 5066.15s | They wagered 5,700, all of it. 5066.15s - 5069.31s | So they either have one of the highest scores 5069.31s - 5071.07s | in Hacker Jeopardy history, 5071.07s - 5074.83s | or they have pissed away the chance for a black match 5074.83s - 5081.85s | into the wind, just like the Vegas Scirocco wins. 5081.85s - 5087.58s | The fucking question says reverse. 5087.58s - 5093.80s | Does that make you excited for what I'm going to read? 5093.80s - 5100.30s | Said what is application, data link, network, physical, 5100.78s - 5140.54s | presentation, said the truth. 5140.54s - 5142.10s | Fuck every last one of you. 5143.58s - 5148.64s | My name is Lin Trial, and here's what I want you, 5148.64s - 5152.76s | until we meet again in this space next year, 5152.76s - 5155.48s | be fucking excellent to each other. 5155.48s - 5156.32s | I love you all.


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Vegas Scirocco wins. 5081.85s - 5087.58s | The fucking question says reverse. 5087.58s - 5093.80s | Does that make you excited for what I'm going to read? 5093.80s - 5100.30s | Said what is application, data link, network, physical, 5100.78s - 5140.54s | presentation, said the truth. 5140.54s - 5142.10s | Fuck every last one of you. 5143.58s - 5148.64s | My name is Lin Trial, and here's what I want you, 5148.64s - 5152.76s | until we meet again in this space next year, 5152.76s - 5155.48s | be fucking excellent to each other. 5155.48s - 5156.32s | I love you all.


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{ "webpage_url": "https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EmstuO0Em8", "title": "DEF CON 32 - Disenshittify or die! How hackers can seize the means of computation - Cory Doctorow", "description": "The enshittification of the internet wasn't inevitable. The old, good internet gave way to the enshitternet because we let our bosses enshittify it. We took away the constraints of competition, regulation, interop and tech worker power, and so when our bosses yanked on the big enshittification lever in the c-suite, it started to budge further and further, toward total enshittification. A new, good internet is possible - and necessary - and it needs you.", "channel_url": "https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6Om9kAkl32dWlDSNlDS9Iw", "duration": 2990, "channel": "DEFCONConference", "uploader": "DEFCONConference", "upload_date": "20240916" } 0.00s - 2.68s | This text was transcribed using whisper model: large-v2 Hello, how are you? 2.68s - 4.32s | Nice to see you. 4.32s - 7.52s | Thank you to DEF CON, thank you especially to the goons 7.52s - 9.68s | and the other volunteers who are out here 9.68s - 12.16s | busting their humps so we can have such a great time. 12.16s - 14.36s | And thank you all for coming. 14.36s - 16.52s | I thought I had 50 minutes, I have 45. 16.52s - 19.80s | I'm gonna talk fast and instead of Q&A, 19.80s - 21.80s | there's a bookseller in the book signing areas 21.80s - 23.00s | bringing in some of my books. 23.00s - 24.84s | You don't have to buy a book, just come over and say hello. 24.84s - 27.68s | I'm gonna sit there until everyone who's got a question 27.68s - 29.20s | has had a chance to ask it. 29.20s - 32.64s | So that's opposite the vendor area gates after this talk. 32.64s - 34.12s | That's the housekeeping here. 34.12s - 36.08s | So I wanna start by asking an important question 36.08s - 40.20s | which is what the fuck happened to the old good internet? 40.20s - 45.20s | I mean, our bosses were a little surveillance happy 45.24s - 47.80s | and yeah, they were totally up for sharing their data 47.80s - 49.04s | with the NSA. 49.04s - 52.24s | And if there was ever a toss up between our user security 52.24s - 55.60s | and growth, they always cashed out for YOLO. 55.60s - 58.76s | But Google search, whatever else we could say about it, 58.80s


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| I'm gonna talk fast and instead of Q&A, 19.80s - 21.80s | there's a bookseller in the book signing areas 21.80s - 23.00s | bringing in some of my books. 23.00s - 24.84s | You don't have to buy a book, just come over and say hello. 24.84s - 27.68s | I'm gonna sit there until everyone who's got a question 27.68s - 29.20s | has had a chance to ask it. 29.20s - 32.64s | So that's opposite the vendor area gates after this talk. 32.64s - 34.12s | That's the housekeeping here. 34.12s - 36.08s | So I wanna start by asking an important question 36.08s - 40.20s | which is what the fuck happened to the old good internet? 40.20s - 45.20s | I mean, our bosses were a little surveillance happy 45.24s - 47.80s | and yeah, they were totally up for sharing their data 47.80s - 49.04s | with the NSA. 49.04s - 52.24s | And if there was ever a toss up between our user security 52.24s - 55.60s | and growth, they always cashed out for YOLO. 55.60s - 58.76s | But Google search, whatever else we could say about it, 58.80s - 60.32s | it worked. 60.32s - 63.12s | And Facebook actually used to give you a feed 63.12s - 66.56s | that shows you the things that you asked to see. 66.56s - 69.84s | Uber used to be cheaper than a taxi 69.84s - 73.60s | and pay the drivers more than a cab driver. 73.60s - 77.12s | Amazon used to actually sell products, 77.12s - 81.04s | not this shine grade self-destructing drop ship garbage 81.04s - 82.52s | from brands you've never heard of 82.52s - 87.92s | whose names consist entirely of consonants. 87.92s - 89.84s | Apple used to defend your privacy 89.84s - 91.80s | rather than spying on you with a device 91.80s - 95.08s | you're not allowed to modify to turn off the surveillance. 95.08s - 97.84s | There was a time where if you search for an album 97.84s - 99.92s | on Spotify, you'd find the album, 99.92s - 104.04s | not a playlist with the same image and title as the album, 104.04s - 106.00s | but which consists of a bunch of things 106.00s - 108.80s | that someone paid to put in that playlist.


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- 60.32s | it worked. 60.32s - 63.12s | And Facebook actually used to give you a feed 63.12s - 66.56s | that shows you the things that you asked to see. 66.56s - 69.84s | Uber used to be cheaper than a taxi 69.84s - 73.60s | and pay the drivers more than a cab driver. 73.60s - 77.12s | Amazon used to actually sell products, 77.12s - 81.04s | not this shine grade self-destructing drop ship garbage 81.04s - 82.52s | from brands you've never heard of 82.52s - 87.92s | whose names consist entirely of consonants. 87.92s - 89.84s | Apple used to defend your privacy 89.84s - 91.80s | rather than spying on you with a device 91.80s - 95.08s | you're not allowed to modify to turn off the surveillance. 95.08s - 97.84s | There was a time where if you search for an album 97.84s - 99.92s | on Spotify, you'd find the album, 99.92s - 104.04s | not a playlist with the same image and title as the album, 104.04s - 106.00s | but which consists of a bunch of things 106.00s - 108.80s | that someone paid to put in that playlist. 108.80s - 111.28s | Microsoft used to sell you software. 111.28s - 113.40s | Yeah, it was very buggy software, 113.40s - 115.20s | but now they don't even do that. 115.20s - 117.28s | They just let you access apps in the cloud 117.28s - 119.28s | and they watch how you use those apps, 119.72s - 121.60s | figure out which features you value the most, 121.60s - 122.84s | pull them out of the basic rate 122.84s - 125.00s | and sell them back to you as an upsell. 125.00s - 127.56s | What, and I cannot stress this enough, 127.56s - 129.44s | what the fuck happened? 130.36s - 134.08s | So obviously I am talking about inshittification. 134.08s - 134.96s | And from the outside, 134.96s - 137.16s | here's what inshittification looks like. 137.16s - 139.92s | First, you see a business that's being good to its end users. 139.92s - 142.48s | You know, Google puts the best search results at the top. 142.48s - 143.92s | Facebook shows you a feed of posts 143.92s - 145.52s | from people you asked to follow. 145.52s - 147.76s | Uber charges small dollars for


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108.80s - 111.28s | Microsoft used to sell you software. 111.28s - 113.40s | Yeah, it was very buggy software, 113.40s - 115.20s | but now they don't even do that. 115.20s - 117.28s | They just let you access apps in the cloud 117.28s - 119.28s | and they watch how you use those apps, 119.72s - 121.60s | figure out which features you value the most, 121.60s - 122.84s | pull them out of the basic rate 122.84s - 125.00s | and sell them back to you as an upsell. 125.00s - 127.56s | What, and I cannot stress this enough, 127.56s - 129.44s | what the fuck happened? 130.36s - 134.08s | So obviously I am talking about inshittification. 134.08s - 134.96s | And from the outside, 134.96s - 137.16s | here's what inshittification looks like. 137.16s - 139.92s | First, you see a business that's being good to its end users. 139.92s - 142.48s | You know, Google puts the best search results at the top. 142.48s - 143.92s | Facebook shows you a feed of posts 143.92s - 145.52s | from people you asked to follow. 145.52s - 147.76s | Uber charges small dollars for a cab. 147.76s - 150.60s | Amazon subsidizes goods and returns and shipping 150.60s - 152.84s | and puts the best match for your product search 152.84s - 154.24s | at the top of the search results. 154.24s - 156.12s | And that's stage one. 156.12s - 158.60s | That's the part where they're good to end users, 158.60s - 160.36s | but there's a hidden part of stage one, 160.36s - 162.48s | call it like stage 1A, 162.48s - 163.96s | and that's the part where they're figuring out 163.96s - 166.44s | how to lock in those users. 166.44s - 170.24s | So if you're Facebook, the users just do it for you. 170.24s - 173.48s | You joined Facebook because there were people on Facebook 173.48s - 175.08s | you wanted to hang out with. 175.08s - 176.80s | And other people, they joined Facebook 176.80s - 178.36s | because they wanted to hang out with you. 178.36s - 181.60s | That's those old network effects in action. 181.60s - 185.52s | And with network effects come a collective action problem 185.52s - 187.12s | because you love your friends, 187.12s - 189.56s | but God


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a cab. 147.76s - 150.60s | Amazon subsidizes goods and returns and shipping 150.60s - 152.84s | and puts the best match for your product search 152.84s - 154.24s | at the top of the search results. 154.24s - 156.12s | And that's stage one. 156.12s - 158.60s | That's the part where they're good to end users, 158.60s - 160.36s | but there's a hidden part of stage one, 160.36s - 162.48s | call it like stage 1A, 162.48s - 163.96s | and that's the part where they're figuring out 163.96s - 166.44s | how to lock in those users. 166.44s - 170.24s | So if you're Facebook, the users just do it for you. 170.24s - 173.48s | You joined Facebook because there were people on Facebook 173.48s - 175.08s | you wanted to hang out with. 175.08s - 176.80s | And other people, they joined Facebook 176.80s - 178.36s | because they wanted to hang out with you. 178.36s - 181.60s | That's those old network effects in action. 181.60s - 185.52s | And with network effects come a collective action problem 185.52s - 187.12s | because you love your friends, 187.12s - 189.56s | but God damn, are they a pain in the ass. 189.56s - 191.88s | Sure, you all agree that Facebook sucks, 191.88s - 194.36s | but can you agree on when it's time to leave? 194.36s - 195.52s | No way. 195.52s - 198.12s | Can you agree on where to go if you're going to leave? 198.12s - 199.80s | Hell no. 199.80s - 202.20s | You're there because that's where the support group 202.20s - 203.96s | for your rare disease is hanging out. 203.96s - 205.40s | And your bestie is there 205.44s - 207.16s | because that's where they talk with the people 207.16s - 209.32s | in the country that they moved away from. 209.32s - 210.84s | And then there's that friend who coordinates 210.84s - 213.40s | their kids' Little League carpools on Facebook. 213.40s - 215.60s | And the best dungeon master you know is there, 215.60s - 216.60s | and she's not going to leave 216.60s - 218.52s | because that's where her customers are. 218.52s - 221.04s | So you're stuck because even though Facebook use 221.04s - 222.80s | comes at a high cost to you, 222.80s - 225.72s | your


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damn, are they a pain in the ass. 189.56s - 191.88s | Sure, you all agree that Facebook sucks, 191.88s - 194.36s | but can you agree on when it's time to leave? 194.36s - 195.52s | No way. 195.52s - 198.12s | Can you agree on where to go if you're going to leave? 198.12s - 199.80s | Hell no. 199.80s - 202.20s | You're there because that's where the support group 202.20s - 203.96s | for your rare disease is hanging out. 203.96s - 205.40s | And your bestie is there 205.44s - 207.16s | because that's where they talk with the people 207.16s - 209.32s | in the country that they moved away from. 209.32s - 210.84s | And then there's that friend who coordinates 210.84s - 213.40s | their kids' Little League carpools on Facebook. 213.40s - 215.60s | And the best dungeon master you know is there, 215.60s - 216.60s | and she's not going to leave 216.60s - 218.52s | because that's where her customers are. 218.52s - 221.04s | So you're stuck because even though Facebook use 221.04s - 222.80s | comes at a high cost to you, 222.80s - 225.72s | your privacy, your dignity, your sanity, 225.72s - 227.52s | it's still less than the switching cost 227.52s - 229.88s | you'd have to endure if you went somewhere else. 229.88s - 232.40s | All those friends who have taken you hostage, 232.40s - 235.68s | and who you are also holding hostage. 235.68s - 238.84s | Now, sometimes companies lock you in with money. 238.84s - 240.40s | Amazon gets you to prepay 240.40s - 242.00s | for a year's worth of shipping with Prime, 242.00s - 244.28s | and they want to sell you your Audible audiobooks 244.28s - 245.88s | on a monthly subscription, 245.88s - 247.48s | which virtually guarantees 247.48s - 250.12s | that every shopping expedition starts on Amazon 250.12s - 252.04s | because you've already paid for the shipping. 252.04s - 254.36s | Sometimes they lock you in with digital rights management, 254.36s - 256.52s | like HP, who will sell you a printer 256.52s - 259.16s | with four ink cartridges with fluid inside it 259.20s - 262.88s | that retails for more than $10,000 a gallon. 262.88s - 265.92s | So, and they use DRM to stop you 265.92s - 268.00s |


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privacy, your dignity, your sanity, 225.72s - 227.52s | it's still less than the switching cost 227.52s - 229.88s | you'd have to endure if you went somewhere else. 229.88s - 232.40s | All those friends who have taken you hostage, 232.40s - 235.68s | and who you are also holding hostage. 235.68s - 238.84s | Now, sometimes companies lock you in with money. 238.84s - 240.40s | Amazon gets you to prepay 240.40s - 242.00s | for a year's worth of shipping with Prime, 242.00s - 244.28s | and they want to sell you your Audible audiobooks 244.28s - 245.88s | on a monthly subscription, 245.88s - 247.48s | which virtually guarantees 247.48s - 250.12s | that every shopping expedition starts on Amazon 250.12s - 252.04s | because you've already paid for the shipping. 252.04s - 254.36s | Sometimes they lock you in with digital rights management, 254.36s - 256.52s | like HP, who will sell you a printer 256.52s - 259.16s | with four ink cartridges with fluid inside it 259.20s - 262.88s | that retails for more than $10,000 a gallon. 262.88s - 265.92s | So, and they use DRM to stop you 265.92s - 268.00s | from refilling any of those cartridges 268.00s - 269.80s | or using a third-party cart. 269.80s - 273.08s | So when one cartridge runs dry, you have to refill it, 273.08s - 275.16s | or you have to throw away the other three cartridges, 275.16s - 276.12s | which are full of liquid 276.12s - 278.92s | that costs more than vintage Veuve Clicquot. 278.92s - 282.16s | Sometimes the vendor uses a grab bag of locked-in techniques 282.16s - 284.32s | like you can't run an iOS app 284.32s - 286.12s | unless you're using Apple hardware, 286.12s - 287.76s | and you can't run the music, the books, 287.76s - 290.96s | and the videos you bought from Apple, except in an iOS app. 295.10s - 296.54s | That's a happy sound. 298.26s - 330.11s | Can you? 330.11s - 331.11s | Can we get this mic up? 331.11s - 332.15s | Oh, here we are. 332.15s - 332.99s | Great. 334.27s - 336.15s | We have the technology. 336.15s - 338.79s | Sometimes the vendor is doing this grab bag stuff 338.79s - 339.63s | like Apple does. 339.63s - 341.83s | So you need the Apple


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from refilling any of those cartridges 268.00s - 269.80s | or using a third-party cart. 269.80s - 273.08s | So when one cartridge runs dry, you have to refill it, 273.08s - 275.16s | or you have to throw away the other three cartridges, 275.16s - 276.12s | which are full of liquid 276.12s - 278.92s | that costs more than vintage Veuve Clicquot. 278.92s - 282.16s | Sometimes the vendor uses a grab bag of locked-in techniques 282.16s - 284.32s | like you can't run an iOS app 284.32s - 286.12s | unless you're using Apple hardware, 286.12s - 287.76s | and you can't run the music, the books, 287.76s - 290.96s | and the videos you bought from Apple, except in an iOS app. 295.10s - 296.54s | That's a happy sound. 298.26s - 330.11s | Can you? 330.11s - 331.11s | Can we get this mic up? 331.11s - 332.15s | Oh, here we are. 332.15s - 332.99s | Great. 334.27s - 336.15s | We have the technology. 336.15s - 338.79s | Sometimes the vendor is doing this grab bag stuff 338.79s - 339.63s | like Apple does. 339.63s - 341.83s | So you need the Apple hardware to run the Apple apps. 341.83s - 344.15s | You need the Apple apps to play the Apple media. 344.15s - 347.43s | And then the phone itself, it uses parts pairing, 347.43s - 350.11s | which is DRM handshakes between subcomponents 350.11s - 351.91s | and the main computer and the device. 351.91s - 354.67s | So you can't use third-party parts to fix it. 354.67s - 358.99s | And every part in that device in your iPhone 358.99s - 362.83s | has got a microscopic Apple logo engraved on it 362.83s - 365.35s | so that if it gets broken up for parts in the Far East 365.35s - 366.75s | and shipped back to the U.S., 366.75s - 369.19s | they can ask U.S. Customs and Border Patrol 369.19s - 372.07s | to seize it at the border as a trademark violation. 372.07s - 374.19s | That's some real thinking different. 374.19s - 376.03s | So getting you locked in 376.03s - 379.55s | completes phase one of the inshittification cycle 379.55s - 382.07s | and heralds the beginning of stage two. 382.07s - 384.99s | This is when things are made worse for you as


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hardware to run the Apple apps. 341.83s - 344.15s | You need the Apple apps to play the Apple media. 344.15s - 347.43s | And then the phone itself, it uses parts pairing, 347.43s - 350.11s | which is DRM handshakes between subcomponents 350.11s - 351.91s | and the main computer and the device. 351.91s - 354.67s | So you can't use third-party parts to fix it. 354.67s - 358.99s | And every part in that device in your iPhone 358.99s - 362.83s | has got a microscopic Apple logo engraved on it 362.83s - 365.35s | so that if it gets broken up for parts in the Far East 365.35s - 366.75s | and shipped back to the U.S., 366.75s - 369.19s | they can ask U.S. Customs and Border Patrol 369.19s - 372.07s | to seize it at the border as a trademark violation. 372.07s - 374.19s | That's some real thinking different. 374.19s - 376.03s | So getting you locked in 376.03s - 379.55s | completes phase one of the inshittification cycle 379.55s - 382.07s | and heralds the beginning of stage two. 382.07s - 384.99s | This is when things are made worse for you as an end user 384.99s - 387.47s | in order to make things better for the business customers 387.47s - 388.95s | that they're making money from. 388.95s - 392.47s | So for example, platforms might poison their search results 392.47s - 394.51s | like Google, which sells more and more 394.51s - 396.51s | of that results page to ads 396.51s - 398.79s | that are identified with smaller and smaller 398.79s - 402.27s | and grayer and grayer type next to it that says ad. 402.27s - 405.43s | Or Amazon, which sells off its search results 405.43s - 407.07s | calling this an ad business. 407.07s - 409.71s | They make $38 billion a year 409.71s - 412.03s | selling search placement for your queries 412.03s - 415.11s | so that the first result when you search Amazon on average 415.11s - 418.83s | is 29% more expensive than the best results on Amazon. 418.83s - 421.79s | The first row is 25% more expensive 421.79s - 423.27s | than the best result on Amazon 423.27s - 425.35s | and that best result is on average 425.35s - 429.51s | 17 places down on that search result page,


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an end user 384.99s - 387.47s | in order to make things better for the business customers 387.47s - 388.95s | that they're making money from. 388.95s - 392.47s | So for example, platforms might poison their search results 392.47s - 394.51s | like Google, which sells more and more 394.51s - 396.51s | of that results page to ads 396.51s - 398.79s | that are identified with smaller and smaller 398.79s - 402.27s | and grayer and grayer type next to it that says ad. 402.27s - 405.43s | Or Amazon, which sells off its search results 405.43s - 407.07s | calling this an ad business. 407.07s - 409.71s | They make $38 billion a year 409.71s - 412.03s | selling search placement for your queries 412.03s - 415.11s | so that the first result when you search Amazon on average 415.11s - 418.83s | is 29% more expensive than the best results on Amazon. 418.83s - 421.79s | The first row is 25% more expensive 421.79s - 423.27s | than the best result on Amazon 423.27s - 425.35s | and that best result is on average 425.35s - 429.51s | 17 places down on that search result page, right? 429.51s - 431.67s | Or the vendor, they'll poison your feed 433.59s - 435.15s | like Facebook, which started off 435.15s - 437.71s | obviously showing you the things that you asked to see 437.71s - 439.87s | but the quantum of content from the people 439.87s - 442.11s | that you asked to hear from has dwindled 442.11s - 444.95s | and dwindled to a kind of homeopathic residue 444.95s - 447.35s | leaving behind a void that can be filled up 447.35s - 449.75s | with things that people will pay to show you. 449.75s - 452.19s | So a lot of that is ads, but a lot of it is boosted posts 452.19s - 455.31s | from publishers that you haven't subscribed to. 455.31s - 457.67s | Those publishers, they have to pay 457.67s - 459.67s | because they can't reach their own subscribers 459.67s - 461.63s | without paying to boost. 461.63s - 464.03s | Now at this point, you might be thinking, 464.03s - 466.07s | sure, if you're not paying for the product, 466.07s - 467.79s | you're the product, but that is bullshit. 467.79s - 470.07s | It is absolute bullshit. 470.07s


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right? 429.51s - 431.67s | Or the vendor, they'll poison your feed 433.59s - 435.15s | like Facebook, which started off 435.15s - 437.71s | obviously showing you the things that you asked to see 437.71s - 439.87s | but the quantum of content from the people 439.87s - 442.11s | that you asked to hear from has dwindled 442.11s - 444.95s | and dwindled to a kind of homeopathic residue 444.95s - 447.35s | leaving behind a void that can be filled up 447.35s - 449.75s | with things that people will pay to show you. 449.75s - 452.19s | So a lot of that is ads, but a lot of it is boosted posts 452.19s - 455.31s | from publishers that you haven't subscribed to. 455.31s - 457.67s | Those publishers, they have to pay 457.67s - 459.67s | because they can't reach their own subscribers 459.67s - 461.63s | without paying to boost. 461.63s - 464.03s | Now at this point, you might be thinking, 464.03s - 466.07s | sure, if you're not paying for the product, 466.07s - 467.79s | you're the product, but that is bullshit. 467.79s - 470.07s | It is absolute bullshit. 470.07s - 471.87s | The people who buy Google ads, 471.87s - 474.95s | they pay more every year for worse targeting 474.95s - 476.63s | and more ad fraud. 476.63s - 479.19s | Like the publishers who are paying to reach you 479.19s - 480.99s | even though you've subscribed to them. 480.99s - 483.75s | The Amazon sellers with the best match for your query 483.75s - 485.55s | have to outbid everyone else 485.55s - 487.31s | just to be in the first page of results 487.31s - 490.35s | and it costs so much to sell on Amazon, 490.35s - 494.83s | 41 to 51, 45 to 51% of the sale price 494.83s - 496.79s | of everything that you buy on Amazon 496.79s - 499.03s | is being scooped up by Don Bezos 499.03s - 500.91s | and the Amazon crime family. 500.91s - 505.51s | Those sellers, they do not have the margin 505.51s - 508.51s | to kick up 45% to Amazon. 508.51s - 510.47s | So they have to raise prices 510.47s - 512.43s | in order to avoid losing money on every sale. 512.43s - 514.07s | But wait, I hear you


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- 471.87s | The people who buy Google ads, 471.87s - 474.95s | they pay more every year for worse targeting 474.95s - 476.63s | and more ad fraud. 476.63s - 479.19s | Like the publishers who are paying to reach you 479.19s - 480.99s | even though you've subscribed to them. 480.99s - 483.75s | The Amazon sellers with the best match for your query 483.75s - 485.55s | have to outbid everyone else 485.55s - 487.31s | just to be in the first page of results 487.31s - 490.35s | and it costs so much to sell on Amazon, 490.35s - 494.83s | 41 to 51, 45 to 51% of the sale price 494.83s - 496.79s | of everything that you buy on Amazon 496.79s - 499.03s | is being scooped up by Don Bezos 499.03s - 500.91s | and the Amazon crime family. 500.91s - 505.51s | Those sellers, they do not have the margin 505.51s - 508.51s | to kick up 45% to Amazon. 508.51s - 510.47s | So they have to raise prices 510.47s - 512.43s | in order to avoid losing money on every sale. 512.43s - 514.07s | But wait, I hear you say. 515.63s - 517.43s | But wait, I hear you say. 518.43s - 520.47s | Things on Amazon aren't more expensive 520.47s - 523.07s | than the things I buy at Target or Walmart 523.07s - 525.59s | or my mom and pop store direct from the vendor. 525.59s - 528.23s | How can they be raising prices on Amazon 528.23s - 529.79s | if the price on Amazon is the same 529.79s - 530.71s | as the price everywhere else? 530.71s - 532.95s | Does anyone want to guess how that works? 534.27s - 537.03s | They raise the prices everywhere else 537.03s - 539.35s | because Amazon binds their sellers 539.35s - 542.67s | to a policy called most favored nation status, 542.67s - 544.75s | which means that the cheapest price they offer 544.75s - 546.87s | has to be matched on Amazon. 546.99s - 550.15s | So they sell more, they charge more everywhere. 550.15s - 553.83s | Now, these sellers are Amazon's best customers. 553.83s - 555.27s | They are paying for the product 555.27s - 557.55s | and they are still getting screwed. 557.55s - 559.63s | Paying for the product does not fill


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say. 515.63s - 517.43s | But wait, I hear you say. 518.43s - 520.47s | Things on Amazon aren't more expensive 520.47s - 523.07s | than the things I buy at Target or Walmart 523.07s - 525.59s | or my mom and pop store direct from the vendor. 525.59s - 528.23s | How can they be raising prices on Amazon 528.23s - 529.79s | if the price on Amazon is the same 529.79s - 530.71s | as the price everywhere else? 530.71s - 532.95s | Does anyone want to guess how that works? 534.27s - 537.03s | They raise the prices everywhere else 537.03s - 539.35s | because Amazon binds their sellers 539.35s - 542.67s | to a policy called most favored nation status, 542.67s - 544.75s | which means that the cheapest price they offer 544.75s - 546.87s | has to be matched on Amazon. 546.99s - 550.15s | So they sell more, they charge more everywhere. 550.15s - 553.83s | Now, these sellers are Amazon's best customers. 553.83s - 555.27s | They are paying for the product 555.27s - 557.55s | and they are still getting screwed. 557.55s - 559.63s | Paying for the product does not fill 559.63s - 562.99s | your vapid boss's shriveled heart with so much joy 562.99s - 564.99s | that he decides to stop trying to think of ways 564.99s - 567.03s | to fuck you over. 567.03s - 568.27s | Look at Apple. 568.27s - 571.07s | Remember when Apple offered every iOS user 571.07s - 573.71s | a one-click opt-out for app-based surveillance 573.71s - 578.11s | and 96% of iOS users ticked that box, 578.11s - 583.11s | the other 4% being drunk, confused or Facebook employees? 583.15s - 586.51s | I mean, this cost Apple 10 billion 586.51s - 589.39s | or it cost Facebook $10 billion in the first year alone 589.39s - 590.83s | and we love to see it, 590.83s - 593.95s | but did you know that at the same time, 593.95s - 596.75s | Apple turned on iOS spying 596.75s - 600.11s | that gathered exactly the same data on iOS users 600.11s - 602.51s | for exactly the same purpose for ad targeting 602.55s - 604.15s | for its own ad network 604.15s - 606.15s | and did not give them any way to opt out 606.15s - 607.79s | and lied


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559.63s - 562.99s | your vapid boss's shriveled heart with so much joy 562.99s - 564.99s | that he decides to stop trying to think of ways 564.99s - 567.03s | to fuck you over. 567.03s - 568.27s | Look at Apple. 568.27s - 571.07s | Remember when Apple offered every iOS user 571.07s - 573.71s | a one-click opt-out for app-based surveillance 573.71s - 578.11s | and 96% of iOS users ticked that box, 578.11s - 583.11s | the other 4% being drunk, confused or Facebook employees? 583.15s - 586.51s | I mean, this cost Apple 10 billion 586.51s - 589.39s | or it cost Facebook $10 billion in the first year alone 589.39s - 590.83s | and we love to see it, 590.83s - 593.95s | but did you know that at the same time, 593.95s - 596.75s | Apple turned on iOS spying 596.75s - 600.11s | that gathered exactly the same data on iOS users 600.11s - 602.51s | for exactly the same purpose for ad targeting 602.55s - 604.15s | for its own ad network 604.15s - 606.15s | and did not give them any way to opt out 606.15s - 607.79s | and lied about it. 608.83s - 612.55s | Now, your iPhone is not an ad-supported gimme. 612.55s - 614.63s | You paid a thousand fucking dollars 614.63s - 616.99s | for that distraction rectangle in your pocket 616.99s - 619.47s | and you are still the product. 619.47s - 622.55s | What's more, Apple has rigged iOS 622.55s - 626.27s | so that you can't mod the OS to block that spying. 626.27s - 627.71s | If you're not paying for the product, 627.71s - 629.11s | yeah, you're the product, 629.11s - 630.91s | but if you are paying for the product, 630.91s - 633.39s | you are still the product. 633.39s - 636.07s | Just ask farmers who shell out six figures 636.07s - 637.95s | for mission-critical tractors, 637.95s - 640.39s | but can't actually use their tractors 640.39s - 643.03s | when they swap parts into them after they break down 643.03s - 645.59s | until the manufacturer charges them 200 bucks 645.59s - 647.87s | to send a guy to the end of a lonely country road 647.87s - 650.23s | and type an unlock code into the console. 650.23s - 652.71s | John Deere is not


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about it. 608.83s - 612.55s | Now, your iPhone is not an ad-supported gimme. 612.55s - 614.63s | You paid a thousand fucking dollars 614.63s - 616.99s | for that distraction rectangle in your pocket 616.99s - 619.47s | and you are still the product. 619.47s - 622.55s | What's more, Apple has rigged iOS 622.55s - 626.27s | so that you can't mod the OS to block that spying. 626.27s - 627.71s | If you're not paying for the product, 627.71s - 629.11s | yeah, you're the product, 629.11s - 630.91s | but if you are paying for the product, 630.91s - 633.39s | you are still the product. 633.39s - 636.07s | Just ask farmers who shell out six figures 636.07s - 637.95s | for mission-critical tractors, 637.95s - 640.39s | but can't actually use their tractors 640.39s - 643.03s | when they swap parts into them after they break down 643.03s - 645.59s | until the manufacturer charges them 200 bucks 645.59s - 647.87s | to send a guy to the end of a lonely country road 647.87s - 650.23s | and type an unlock code into the console. 650.23s - 652.71s | John Deere is not giving away tractors. 652.71s - 655.03s | Give John Deere half million for a tractor 655.03s - 656.91s | and you will be the product. 656.91s - 659.91s | Please, I'm begging you, my brothers and sisters in Christ, 659.91s - 662.59s | please stop saying, if you're not paying for the product, 662.59s - 664.03s | you're the product. 664.03s - 666.99s | Okay, so that is phase two of inshitification. 666.99s - 670.07s | Phase one, be good to your users, but lock them in. 670.07s - 672.15s | Phase two, screw those users a little 672.15s - 673.71s | so you can be good to business customers 673.71s - 676.27s | while locking them in because they need those users. 676.27s - 679.03s | Then phase three, screw everybody 679.03s - 681.15s | and take all the value for yourself. 681.15s - 684.47s | Leave behind the absolute bare minimum of utility 684.47s - 687.23s | so that everyone stays locked into this pile of shit. 687.23s - 690.91s | Inshitification, a tragedy in three acts. 690.91s - 694.07s | So that is what inshitification looks like from the outside. 694.07s - 696.59s | But what is


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giving away tractors. 652.71s - 655.03s | Give John Deere half million for a tractor 655.03s - 656.91s | and you will be the product. 656.91s - 659.91s | Please, I'm begging you, my brothers and sisters in Christ, 659.91s - 662.59s | please stop saying, if you're not paying for the product, 662.59s - 664.03s | you're the product. 664.03s - 666.99s | Okay, so that is phase two of inshitification. 666.99s - 670.07s | Phase one, be good to your users, but lock them in. 670.07s - 672.15s | Phase two, screw those users a little 672.15s - 673.71s | so you can be good to business customers 673.71s - 676.27s | while locking them in because they need those users. 676.27s - 679.03s | Then phase three, screw everybody 679.03s - 681.15s | and take all the value for yourself. 681.15s - 684.47s | Leave behind the absolute bare minimum of utility 684.47s - 687.23s | so that everyone stays locked into this pile of shit. 687.23s - 690.91s | Inshitification, a tragedy in three acts. 690.91s - 694.07s | So that is what inshitification looks like from the outside. 694.07s - 696.59s | But what is going on inside the company? 696.59s - 699.71s | What is the pathological mechanism? 699.71s - 702.91s | What sci-fi entropy rate are our bosses aiming 702.91s - 706.11s | at these products to make them so bad so quickly? 706.11s - 709.59s | Well, I call that mechanism twiddling. 709.59s - 712.47s | Twiddling is when someone is altering the backend 712.47s - 715.07s | of a service to change its business operations, 715.07s - 718.55s | to change its prices, its costs, its search ranking, 718.55s - 720.43s | its recommendation criteria, 720.43s - 723.99s | and other foundational aspects of the system. 723.99s - 727.47s | Digital platforms are a twiddler's utopia. 727.47s - 730.75s | A grocer would need an army of teenagers 730.75s - 733.15s | with pricing guns on rollerblades 733.15s - 734.67s | to reprice everything in the store 734.67s - 737.51s | if someone comes in who looks like they're feeling spendy. 737.51s - 740.11s | But McDonald's Investments has a portfolio company 740.11s - 742.55s | called Plexure, and they advertise 742.55s - 744.45s | that they can use surveillance data 744.49s - 746.97s | to figure out when a customer


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going on inside the company? 696.59s - 699.71s | What is the pathological mechanism? 699.71s - 702.91s | What sci-fi entropy rate are our bosses aiming 702.91s - 706.11s | at these products to make them so bad so quickly? 706.11s - 709.59s | Well, I call that mechanism twiddling. 709.59s - 712.47s | Twiddling is when someone is altering the backend 712.47s - 715.07s | of a service to change its business operations, 715.07s - 718.55s | to change its prices, its costs, its search ranking, 718.55s - 720.43s | its recommendation criteria, 720.43s - 723.99s | and other foundational aspects of the system. 723.99s - 727.47s | Digital platforms are a twiddler's utopia. 727.47s - 730.75s | A grocer would need an army of teenagers 730.75s - 733.15s | with pricing guns on rollerblades 733.15s - 734.67s | to reprice everything in the store 734.67s - 737.51s | if someone comes in who looks like they're feeling spendy. 737.51s - 740.11s | But McDonald's Investments has a portfolio company 740.11s - 742.55s | called Plexure, and they advertise 742.55s - 744.45s | that they can use surveillance data 744.49s - 746.97s | to figure out when a customer has just been paid 746.97s - 749.97s | and add three bucks to the price of the breakfast sandwich. 751.09s - 753.89s | And of course, as the prophet William Gibson told us, 753.89s - 756.13s | cyberspace is everting. 756.13s - 757.77s | With digital shelf tags, 757.77s - 760.41s | grocers can twiddle prices in real time, 760.41s - 761.97s | like the grocers in Norway, 761.97s - 765.57s | where they're adding these e-ink grocery shelf tags 765.57s - 769.41s | and changing prices up to 2,000 times a day. 769.41s - 771.61s | Now, it's not just grocery stores. 771.61s - 774.69s | Every Uber driver gets offered a different wage 774.69s - 776.07s | for every job. 776.07s - 779.49s | If the driver's been picky lately, the job pays more. 779.49s - 781.17s | But if the driver's been desperate enough 781.17s - 785.13s | to grab every job that the app is offering, 785.13s - 787.97s | the pay goes down and down and down. 787.97s - 789.77s | The law professor, Veena Dubal, 789.77s - 792.89s | calls this algorithmic wage discrimination, 792.89s - 795.01s | and it's a prime example of


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has just been paid 746.97s - 749.97s | and add three bucks to the price of the breakfast sandwich. 751.09s - 753.89s | And of course, as the prophet William Gibson told us, 753.89s - 756.13s | cyberspace is everting. 756.13s - 757.77s | With digital shelf tags, 757.77s - 760.41s | grocers can twiddle prices in real time, 760.41s - 761.97s | like the grocers in Norway, 761.97s - 765.57s | where they're adding these e-ink grocery shelf tags 765.57s - 769.41s | and changing prices up to 2,000 times a day. 769.41s - 771.61s | Now, it's not just grocery stores. 771.61s - 774.69s | Every Uber driver gets offered a different wage 774.69s - 776.07s | for every job. 776.07s - 779.49s | If the driver's been picky lately, the job pays more. 779.49s - 781.17s | But if the driver's been desperate enough 781.17s - 785.13s | to grab every job that the app is offering, 785.13s - 787.97s | the pay goes down and down and down. 787.97s - 789.77s | The law professor, Veena Dubal, 789.77s - 792.89s | calls this algorithmic wage discrimination, 792.89s - 795.01s | and it's a prime example of twiddling. 795.01s - 797.37s | And every YouTuber, every TikToker, 797.37s - 799.39s | they know what it's like to be twiddled. 799.43s - 801.95s | You spend weeks or months working on a video, 801.95s - 803.79s | you spend thousands of dollars, 803.79s - 806.11s | and then the algorithm decides that no one, 806.11s - 807.89s | not even your subscribers, 807.89s - 810.67s | not searchers who type in the name of the video, 810.67s - 812.71s | will actually see that video. 812.71s - 813.55s | Why? 813.55s - 814.55s | Who knows? 814.55s - 817.19s | The algorithm's rules are not public 817.19s - 821.03s | because content moderation is the only security discipline 821.03s - 822.15s | in which we still say 822.15s - 824.31s | that there is security through obscurity. 824.31s - 826.79s | We can't tell you how the Como algorithm works, 826.79s - 829.09s | otherwise you might figure out how to cheat. 829.79s - 831.85s | YouTube, in other words, is the kind of shitty boss 831.85s - 834.89s | who docks your paycheck every week for violating rules, 834.89s - 836.73s | but won't tell you what


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twiddling. 795.01s - 797.37s | And every YouTuber, every TikToker, 797.37s - 799.39s | they know what it's like to be twiddled. 799.43s - 801.95s | You spend weeks or months working on a video, 801.95s - 803.79s | you spend thousands of dollars, 803.79s - 806.11s | and then the algorithm decides that no one, 806.11s - 807.89s | not even your subscribers, 807.89s - 810.67s | not searchers who type in the name of the video, 810.67s - 812.71s | will actually see that video. 812.71s - 813.55s | Why? 813.55s - 814.55s | Who knows? 814.55s - 817.19s | The algorithm's rules are not public 817.19s - 821.03s | because content moderation is the only security discipline 821.03s - 822.15s | in which we still say 822.15s - 824.31s | that there is security through obscurity. 824.31s - 826.79s | We can't tell you how the Como algorithm works, 826.79s - 829.09s | otherwise you might figure out how to cheat. 829.79s - 831.85s | YouTube, in other words, is the kind of shitty boss 831.85s - 834.89s | who docks your paycheck every week for violating rules, 834.89s - 836.73s | but won't tell you what those rules are 836.73s - 838.71s | in case you figure out how to break them next week 838.71s - 841.29s | without him docking your paycheck. 841.29s - 844.65s | Now, twiddling also works in some users' favor, of course. 844.65s - 847.49s | Sometimes platforms twiddle things to make things better 847.49s - 850.53s | for some of their end users or business customers. 850.53s - 852.57s | So the best example I know about this 852.57s - 855.29s | comes from the Forbes journalist Emily Baker White, 855.29s - 857.69s | who broke a story about how TikTok 857.69s - 859.05s | has a feature on its backend 859.05s - 860.97s | that its strategic managers can use 860.97s - 862.61s | called the heating tool. 862.61s - 864.61s | When a manager applies the heating tool 864.61s - 866.17s | to a performer's account, 866.17s - 868.03s | that performer's videos are thrust 868.03s - 871.09s | into the feeds of millions of users 871.09s - 872.41s | without regard to whether or not 872.41s - 874.41s | the recommendation algorithm 874.41s - 878.15s | would organically recommend that to those viewers. 878.15s - 879.65s |


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those rules are 836.73s - 838.71s | in case you figure out how to break them next week 838.71s - 841.29s | without him docking your paycheck. 841.29s - 844.65s | Now, twiddling also works in some users' favor, of course. 844.65s - 847.49s | Sometimes platforms twiddle things to make things better 847.49s - 850.53s | for some of their end users or business customers. 850.53s - 852.57s | So the best example I know about this 852.57s - 855.29s | comes from the Forbes journalist Emily Baker White, 855.29s - 857.69s | who broke a story about how TikTok 857.69s - 859.05s | has a feature on its backend 859.05s - 860.97s | that its strategic managers can use 860.97s - 862.61s | called the heating tool. 862.61s - 864.61s | When a manager applies the heating tool 864.61s - 866.17s | to a performer's account, 866.17s - 868.03s | that performer's videos are thrust 868.03s - 871.09s | into the feeds of millions of users 871.09s - 872.41s | without regard to whether or not 872.41s - 874.41s | the recommendation algorithm 874.41s - 878.15s | would organically recommend that to those viewers. 878.15s - 879.65s | Now, why would they do that? 879.65s - 883.09s | Here's an analogy from my Dewey boyhood 883.09s - 884.97s | growing up in Toronto. 884.97s - 886.09s | There was a traveling fare 886.09s - 887.53s | that used to come to Toronto every summer 888.37s - 889.71s | called the Canadian National Exhibition. 889.71s - 891.97s | And if you've been to a fare like the X, 891.97s - 895.21s | you know that you always spot some guy on the midway 895.21s - 897.85s | lugging around a giant teddy bear. 897.85s - 899.55s | Nominally, you win those teddy bears 899.55s - 901.73s | by getting five balls in a peach basket. 901.73s - 903.21s | But to a first approximation, 903.21s - 907.21s | no one has ever gotten five balls in a peach basket. 907.21s - 909.21s | That guy won his teddy bear 909.21s - 910.99s | because a carny gestured at him and said, 910.99s - 912.09s | "'Fella, I like your face. 912.09s - 913.83s | "'I tell you what I'm gonna do. 913.83s - 915.77s | "'You get just one ball in that peach basket. 915.77s - 917.01s | "'I'll


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Now, why would they do that? 879.65s - 883.09s | Here's an analogy from my Dewey boyhood 883.09s - 884.97s | growing up in Toronto. 884.97s - 886.09s | There was a traveling fare 886.09s - 887.53s | that used to come to Toronto every summer 888.37s - 889.71s | called the Canadian National Exhibition. 889.71s - 891.97s | And if you've been to a fare like the X, 891.97s - 895.21s | you know that you always spot some guy on the midway 895.21s - 897.85s | lugging around a giant teddy bear. 897.85s - 899.55s | Nominally, you win those teddy bears 899.55s - 901.73s | by getting five balls in a peach basket. 901.73s - 903.21s | But to a first approximation, 903.21s - 907.21s | no one has ever gotten five balls in a peach basket. 907.21s - 909.21s | That guy won his teddy bear 909.21s - 910.99s | because a carny gestured at him and said, 910.99s - 912.09s | "'Fella, I like your face. 912.09s - 913.83s | "'I tell you what I'm gonna do. 913.83s - 915.77s | "'You get just one ball in that peach basket. 915.77s - 917.01s | "'I'll give you a key chain. 917.03s - 918.07s | "'You got two key chains. 918.07s - 920.05s | "'I'll let you trade up to the teddy bear.'" 920.05s - 921.97s | That is how that guy got the teddy bear, 921.97s - 925.69s | which he is now doomed to drag up and down the midway 925.69s - 927.21s | all goddamn day. 927.21s - 929.97s | Now, why did the carny give away the teddy bear? 929.97s - 932.57s | Because it turned that guy into a walking billboard 932.57s - 933.85s | for the midway games. 933.85s - 936.61s | If that dopey looking Judas goat 936.61s - 938.21s | can win a giant teddy bear, 938.21s - 940.37s | then maybe you can too, 940.37s - 941.93s | except you can't. 941.93s - 944.49s | TikTok's heating tool is a way to give away 944.49s - 947.37s | extremely tactical giant teddy bears. 947.37s - 949.73s | When someone at the TikTok brain trust 949.73s - 952.61s | decides they need more sports bros on the platform, 952.61s - 954.29s | they pick out one bro at random 954.29s - 955.93s | and they make him king


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give you a key chain. 917.03s - 918.07s | "'You got two key chains. 918.07s - 920.05s | "'I'll let you trade up to the teddy bear.'" 920.05s - 921.97s | That is how that guy got the teddy bear, 921.97s - 925.69s | which he is now doomed to drag up and down the midway 925.69s - 927.21s | all goddamn day. 927.21s - 929.97s | Now, why did the carny give away the teddy bear? 929.97s - 932.57s | Because it turned that guy into a walking billboard 932.57s - 933.85s | for the midway games. 933.85s - 936.61s | If that dopey looking Judas goat 936.61s - 938.21s | can win a giant teddy bear, 938.21s - 940.37s | then maybe you can too, 940.37s - 941.93s | except you can't. 941.93s - 944.49s | TikTok's heating tool is a way to give away 944.49s - 947.37s | extremely tactical giant teddy bears. 947.37s - 949.73s | When someone at the TikTok brain trust 949.73s - 952.61s | decides they need more sports bros on the platform, 952.61s - 954.29s | they pick out one bro at random 954.29s - 955.93s | and they make him king for the day. 955.93s - 958.13s | They heat the shit out of his account. 958.13s - 959.93s | That guy gets a bazillion views 959.93s - 962.57s | and he starts running around in all the sports bro forums, 962.57s - 963.71s | trumpeting his success. 963.71s - 967.65s | I am the Louis Pasteur of online sports bro content. 968.81s - 970.65s | The other sports bros pile in 970.65s - 972.93s | and they start retooling to make video 972.93s - 976.81s | that complies with the idiosyncratic requirements of TikTok. 976.81s - 979.49s | And when they fail to get giant teddy bears of their own, 979.49s - 982.41s | they assume it's because they're doing TikTok wrong 982.41s - 985.05s | because they don't know about the heating tool. 985.05s - 987.97s | But then comes the day when the TikTok star chamber 987.97s - 991.09s | decides that they've got enough sports bros on the platform 991.09s - 993.89s | so they take the heat off that one lucky sports bro 993.89s - 996.93s | and maybe they start heating up some lucky astrologer. 996.93s - 999.41s | Giant teddy bears are all over


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for the day. 955.93s - 958.13s | They heat the shit out of his account. 958.13s - 959.93s | That guy gets a bazillion views 959.93s - 962.57s | and he starts running around in all the sports bro forums, 962.57s - 963.71s | trumpeting his success. 963.71s - 967.65s | I am the Louis Pasteur of online sports bro content. 968.81s - 970.65s | The other sports bros pile in 970.65s - 972.93s | and they start retooling to make video 972.93s - 976.81s | that complies with the idiosyncratic requirements of TikTok. 976.81s - 979.49s | And when they fail to get giant teddy bears of their own, 979.49s - 982.41s | they assume it's because they're doing TikTok wrong 982.41s - 985.05s | because they don't know about the heating tool. 985.05s - 987.97s | But then comes the day when the TikTok star chamber 987.97s - 991.09s | decides that they've got enough sports bros on the platform 991.09s - 993.89s | so they take the heat off that one lucky sports bro 993.89s - 996.93s | and maybe they start heating up some lucky astrologer. 996.93s - 999.41s | Giant teddy bears are all over the place. 999.41s - 1001.29s | Those Uber drivers who the New York Times 1001.29s - 1002.93s | lavished so much ink on 1002.93s - 1005.97s | who are making $100,000 a year driving for Uber 1005.97s - 1008.57s | or the sub stackers who are rolling in dough 1008.57s - 1012.17s | or Joe Rogan's $100 million Spotify play out. 1012.17s - 1015.37s | Those are all people who are the unwitting recipients 1015.37s - 1016.81s | of giant teddy bears. 1016.81s - 1019.45s | And those giant teddy bears are a goddamn bargain 1019.45s - 1022.73s | because every dollar you spend on a giant teddy bear 1022.73s - 1025.49s | turns into five or $10 worth of free labor 1025.49s - 1027.05s | from people who think that they have a shot 1027.05s - 1028.89s | of earning one of their own. 1028.89s - 1030.49s | Now, platforms can play games 1030.49s - 1032.45s | with every part of their business logic 1032.45s - 1034.33s | in highly automated ways. 1034.33s - 1036.29s | That allows them to quickly and efficiently 1036.29s - 1038.25s | siphon value from end users 1038.25s - 1039.77s | and give it


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the place. 999.41s - 1001.29s | Those Uber drivers who the New York Times 1001.29s - 1002.93s | lavished so much ink on 1002.93s - 1005.97s | who are making $100,000 a year driving for Uber 1005.97s - 1008.57s | or the sub stackers who are rolling in dough 1008.57s - 1012.17s | or Joe Rogan's $100 million Spotify play out. 1012.17s - 1015.37s | Those are all people who are the unwitting recipients 1015.37s - 1016.81s | of giant teddy bears. 1016.81s - 1019.45s | And those giant teddy bears are a goddamn bargain 1019.45s - 1022.73s | because every dollar you spend on a giant teddy bear 1022.73s - 1025.49s | turns into five or $10 worth of free labor 1025.49s - 1027.05s | from people who think that they have a shot 1027.05s - 1028.89s | of earning one of their own. 1028.89s - 1030.49s | Now, platforms can play games 1030.49s - 1032.45s | with every part of their business logic 1032.45s - 1034.33s | in highly automated ways. 1034.33s - 1036.29s | That allows them to quickly and efficiently 1036.29s - 1038.25s | siphon value from end users 1038.25s - 1039.77s | and give it to business customers 1039.77s - 1042.05s | from business customers back to end users. 1042.05s - 1043.49s | And then back again, 1043.49s - 1047.57s | hiding the P in the shell game at machine speeds 1047.57s - 1049.89s | until they've got everyone so turned around 1049.89s - 1052.17s | that they can take all the value, excuse me, 1052.17s - 1054.67s | they can take all the value for themselves. 1054.67s - 1056.17s | That's the how. 1056.17s - 1057.85s | How the platforms do that trick 1057.85s - 1059.45s | where they're good to users, 1059.45s - 1061.09s | then they lock those users in, 1061.09s - 1062.85s | then they take something away from those users 1062.85s - 1065.33s | and give it to business customers and lock them in. 1065.33s - 1067.17s | And then they take the value for themselves. 1067.17s - 1069.33s | So now we know what is happening. 1069.33s - 1071.45s | We know how it's happening. 1071.45s - 1074.01s | All that's left is why is it happening? 1074.01s - 1074.85s | Now, on the one hand, 1074.85s - 1076.01s | there's an answer to this question 1076.01s - 1077.61s


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to business customers 1039.77s - 1042.05s | from business customers back to end users. 1042.05s - 1043.49s | And then back again, 1043.49s - 1047.57s | hiding the P in the shell game at machine speeds 1047.57s - 1049.89s | until they've got everyone so turned around 1049.89s - 1052.17s | that they can take all the value, excuse me, 1052.17s - 1054.67s | they can take all the value for themselves. 1054.67s - 1056.17s | That's the how. 1056.17s - 1057.85s | How the platforms do that trick 1057.85s - 1059.45s | where they're good to users, 1059.45s - 1061.09s | then they lock those users in, 1061.09s - 1062.85s | then they take something away from those users 1062.85s - 1065.33s | and give it to business customers and lock them in. 1065.33s - 1067.17s | And then they take the value for themselves. 1067.17s - 1069.33s | So now we know what is happening. 1069.33s - 1071.45s | We know how it's happening. 1071.45s - 1074.01s | All that's left is why is it happening? 1074.01s - 1074.85s | Now, on the one hand, 1074.85s - 1076.01s | there's an answer to this question 1076.01s - 1077.61s | that's pretty goddamn obvious. 1077.61s - 1080.29s | The less value that a business gives to its suppliers, 1080.29s - 1081.89s | its customers, its workers, 1081.89s - 1084.09s | the more value there is left to divide 1084.09s - 1086.21s | among the executives and the shareholders. 1086.21s - 1090.93s | Companies, but that why doesn't tell you why now. 1090.93s - 1092.97s | After all, companies could have done this shit 1092.97s - 1095.17s | any time over the last 20 years, 1095.17s - 1096.41s | but by and large, they didn't. 1096.41s - 1098.17s | And when they did, 1098.17s - 1099.81s | they turned themselves into piles of shit 1099.81s - 1101.91s | and they got treated like piles of shit. 1101.91s - 1104.07s | We avoided them and then they died. 1104.07s - 1108.13s | Remember MySpace or Yahoo search or LiveJournal? 1108.13s - 1110.33s | I mean, yeah, you can go to those domains today 1110.33s - 1113.07s | and find a bunch of AI slop and programmatic ads, 1113.07s - 1115.17s | but those sites are gone. 1115.17s - 1116.85s | And there's the clue. 1116.85s - 1119.97s | It used to


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| that's pretty goddamn obvious. 1077.61s - 1080.29s | The less value that a business gives to its suppliers, 1080.29s - 1081.89s | its customers, its workers, 1081.89s - 1084.09s | the more value there is left to divide 1084.09s - 1086.21s | among the executives and the shareholders. 1086.21s - 1090.93s | Companies, but that why doesn't tell you why now. 1090.93s - 1092.97s | After all, companies could have done this shit 1092.97s - 1095.17s | any time over the last 20 years, 1095.17s - 1096.41s | but by and large, they didn't. 1096.41s - 1098.17s | And when they did, 1098.17s - 1099.81s | they turned themselves into piles of shit 1099.81s - 1101.91s | and they got treated like piles of shit. 1101.91s - 1104.07s | We avoided them and then they died. 1104.07s - 1108.13s | Remember MySpace or Yahoo search or LiveJournal? 1108.13s - 1110.33s | I mean, yeah, you can go to those domains today 1110.33s - 1113.07s | and find a bunch of AI slop and programmatic ads, 1113.07s - 1115.17s | but those sites are gone. 1115.17s - 1116.85s | And there's the clue. 1116.85s - 1119.97s | It used to be that if you and shitified your product, 1119.97s - 1122.77s | bad things happen to your company. 1122.77s - 1126.05s | Now, there are no consequences for in shitification, 1126.05s - 1128.91s | which is why everyone is doing it right now. 1128.91s - 1130.61s | So I'll break that down. 1130.61s - 1134.53s | There are four forces that discipline technology companies. 1134.53s - 1136.97s | The first one is obviously competition. 1136.97s - 1139.29s | If your customers find it easy to leave, 1139.29s - 1141.37s | then you have to worry about them leaving. 1141.37s - 1144.51s | Now, many factors can contribute to how hard or easy it is 1144.51s - 1145.81s | to depart a platform. 1146.79s - 1149.47s | Think of the network effects that Facebook has going for it 1149.47s - 1151.47s | and the intrinsic cost of going somewhere else 1151.47s - 1154.07s | and leaving behind the people that you love there. 1154.07s - 1155.47s | But the most important factor 1155.47s - 1156.87s | on whether you can leave a platform 1156.87s - 1159.55s | is whether there's somewhere else to go. 1159.55s - 1161.67s | Now, remember 2012,


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be that if you and shitified your product, 1119.97s - 1122.77s | bad things happen to your company. 1122.77s - 1126.05s | Now, there are no consequences for in shitification, 1126.05s - 1128.91s | which is why everyone is doing it right now. 1128.91s - 1130.61s | So I'll break that down. 1130.61s - 1134.53s | There are four forces that discipline technology companies. 1134.53s - 1136.97s | The first one is obviously competition. 1136.97s - 1139.29s | If your customers find it easy to leave, 1139.29s - 1141.37s | then you have to worry about them leaving. 1141.37s - 1144.51s | Now, many factors can contribute to how hard or easy it is 1144.51s - 1145.81s | to depart a platform. 1146.79s - 1149.47s | Think of the network effects that Facebook has going for it 1149.47s - 1151.47s | and the intrinsic cost of going somewhere else 1151.47s - 1154.07s | and leaving behind the people that you love there. 1154.07s - 1155.47s | But the most important factor 1155.47s - 1156.87s | on whether you can leave a platform 1156.87s - 1159.55s | is whether there's somewhere else to go. 1159.55s - 1161.67s | Now, remember 2012, 1161.67s - 1165.19s | Facebook bought Instagram for a billion dollars. 1165.19s - 1166.81s | Now that might seem like chump change 1166.81s - 1169.81s | in these days of 11 digit big tech acquisitions, 1169.81s - 1172.79s | but that was a big sum in those innocent days. 1172.83s - 1176.11s | And it was an especially big sum to pay for Insta. 1176.11s - 1178.83s | The company had 13 employees, 1178.83s - 1182.03s | a mere 25 million registered users. 1182.03s - 1183.75s | But what mattered to Zuck 1183.75s - 1186.03s | wasn't how many users Insta had, 1186.03s - 1187.65s | it's where those users came from. 1187.65s - 1190.83s | Does anyone know where those Insta users were coming from? 1190.83s - 1194.59s | Facebook, they were leaving Facebook and joining Insta. 1194.59s - 1195.91s | They were sick of Facebook, 1195.91s - 1197.67s | even though they liked the people there, 1197.67s - 1200.75s | they hated creepy Zuck, they hated the platform, 1200.75s - 1202.91s | and so they left and they didn't come back. 1202.91s - 1206.91s | So Zuck spent a billion dollars to recapture them. 1206.91s - 1209.31s |


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1161.67s - 1165.19s | Facebook bought Instagram for a billion dollars. 1165.19s - 1166.81s | Now that might seem like chump change 1166.81s - 1169.81s | in these days of 11 digit big tech acquisitions, 1169.81s - 1172.79s | but that was a big sum in those innocent days. 1172.83s - 1176.11s | And it was an especially big sum to pay for Insta. 1176.11s - 1178.83s | The company had 13 employees, 1178.83s - 1182.03s | a mere 25 million registered users. 1182.03s - 1183.75s | But what mattered to Zuck 1183.75s - 1186.03s | wasn't how many users Insta had, 1186.03s - 1187.65s | it's where those users came from. 1187.65s - 1190.83s | Does anyone know where those Insta users were coming from? 1190.83s - 1194.59s | Facebook, they were leaving Facebook and joining Insta. 1194.59s - 1195.91s | They were sick of Facebook, 1195.91s - 1197.67s | even though they liked the people there, 1197.67s - 1200.75s | they hated creepy Zuck, they hated the platform, 1200.75s - 1202.91s | and so they left and they didn't come back. 1202.91s - 1206.91s | So Zuck spent a billion dollars to recapture them. 1206.91s - 1209.31s | A fact that he put in writing 1209.31s - 1213.43s | in a midnight email to his CFO, David Ebersman, 1213.43s - 1215.79s | explaining that he was paying over the odds 1215.79s - 1219.15s | because his users hated him and they loved Insta. 1219.15s - 1221.59s | So even if they quit Facebook, the platform, 1221.59s - 1224.83s | they would still be captured by Facebook, the company. 1224.83s - 1228.11s | Now on paper, that acquisition is illegal. 1228.11s - 1230.13s | Normally that'd be hard to prove 1230.13s - 1232.35s | because you'd have to prove that Zuck bought them 1232.35s - 1234.81s | for an anti-competitive purpose. 1234.81s - 1237.49s | But in this case, Zuck just tripped over his own deck. 1237.49s - 1240.35s | He actually put it in writing. 1240.35s - 1243.45s | But Obama's DOJ and Federal Trade Commission, 1243.45s - 1244.81s | they let it slide. 1244.81s - 1247.73s | They were following the pro-monopoly policies 1247.73s - 1251.57s | of Reagan, Bush One, Clinton, and Bush Two, 1251.57s - 1254.41s | set an example that Trump would follow, 1254.41s - 1255.77s | greenlighting giga-mergers 1255.77s - 1259.47s | like


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A fact that he put in writing 1209.31s - 1213.43s | in a midnight email to his CFO, David Ebersman, 1213.43s - 1215.79s | explaining that he was paying over the odds 1215.79s - 1219.15s | because his users hated him and they loved Insta. 1219.15s - 1221.59s | So even if they quit Facebook, the platform, 1221.59s - 1224.83s | they would still be captured by Facebook, the company. 1224.83s - 1228.11s | Now on paper, that acquisition is illegal. 1228.11s - 1230.13s | Normally that'd be hard to prove 1230.13s - 1232.35s | because you'd have to prove that Zuck bought them 1232.35s - 1234.81s | for an anti-competitive purpose. 1234.81s - 1237.49s | But in this case, Zuck just tripped over his own deck. 1237.49s - 1240.35s | He actually put it in writing. 1240.35s - 1243.45s | But Obama's DOJ and Federal Trade Commission, 1243.45s - 1244.81s | they let it slide. 1244.81s - 1247.73s | They were following the pro-monopoly policies 1247.73s - 1251.57s | of Reagan, Bush One, Clinton, and Bush Two, 1251.57s - 1254.41s | set an example that Trump would follow, 1254.41s - 1255.77s | greenlighting giga-mergers 1255.77s - 1259.47s | like the catastrophic, incestuous Warner Discovery merger 1259.51s - 1260.75s | that as of this week, 1260.75s - 1265.47s | restated its value down by $10 billion over one year. 1265.47s - 1267.07s | Indeed, for 40 years, 1267.07s - 1269.83s | starting with Carter and accelerating through Reagan, 1269.83s - 1273.15s | the U.S. has encouraged monopoly formation 1273.15s - 1274.89s | as an official policy 1274.89s - 1277.73s | on the grounds that monopolies are efficient. 1277.73s - 1279.73s | If everyone is using Google Search, 1279.73s - 1281.51s | that's something we should celebrate. 1281.51s - 1283.87s | It means they've got the very best search. 1283.87s - 1287.59s | And wouldn't it be perverse to spend public funds 1287.59s - 1290.99s | to punish them for making the best product? 1290.99s - 1292.63s | But as we all know, 1292.63s - 1296.11s | Google Search did not maintain dominance by being best. 1296.11s - 1298.75s | They did it by paying bribes. 1298.75s - 1302.11s | They spend more than $20 billion a year on Apple 1302.11s - 1304.79s | to be the default iOS search. 1304.79s - 1308.23s | They spend billions more to be defaults


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the catastrophic, incestuous Warner Discovery merger 1259.51s - 1260.75s | that as of this week, 1260.75s - 1265.47s | restated its value down by $10 billion over one year. 1265.47s - 1267.07s | Indeed, for 40 years, 1267.07s - 1269.83s | starting with Carter and accelerating through Reagan, 1269.83s - 1273.15s | the U.S. has encouraged monopoly formation 1273.15s - 1274.89s | as an official policy 1274.89s - 1277.73s | on the grounds that monopolies are efficient. 1277.73s - 1279.73s | If everyone is using Google Search, 1279.73s - 1281.51s | that's something we should celebrate. 1281.51s - 1283.87s | It means they've got the very best search. 1283.87s - 1287.59s | And wouldn't it be perverse to spend public funds 1287.59s - 1290.99s | to punish them for making the best product? 1290.99s - 1292.63s | But as we all know, 1292.63s - 1296.11s | Google Search did not maintain dominance by being best. 1296.11s - 1298.75s | They did it by paying bribes. 1298.75s - 1302.11s | They spend more than $20 billion a year on Apple 1302.11s - 1304.79s | to be the default iOS search. 1304.79s - 1308.23s | They spend billions more to be defaults at Samsung, Mozilla, 1308.23s - 1310.03s | and anyone else making a product 1310.03s - 1311.99s | or a service with a search box, 1311.99s - 1314.39s | ensuring that you never stumble on a search engine 1314.39s - 1316.39s | that's any better than theirs. 1317.27s - 1320.19s | Which in turn ensures that no one will ever invest 1320.19s - 1321.83s | in a superior search engine, 1321.83s - 1324.27s | even if they are visibly, obviously superior, 1324.27s - 1326.79s | because why bother making something better 1326.79s - 1328.85s | if Google's buying up all the market oxygen 1328.85s - 1331.33s | before it can kindle a product to life? 1331.33s - 1333.69s | Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, 1333.69s - 1335.29s | they are not making things companies, 1335.29s - 1337.31s | they are buying things companies. 1337.31s - 1340.03s | They take advantage of official tolerance 1340.03s - 1342.27s | for anti-competitive acquisitions, 1342.27s - 1345.87s | predatory pricing, market-distorting exclusivity deals, 1345.91s - 1348.79s | and other acts specifically prohibited 1348.79s - 1350.91s | by our antitrust laws. 1350.91s - 1352.69s | They become too big to fail 1352.69s - 1354.63s | because that


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at Samsung, Mozilla, 1308.23s - 1310.03s | and anyone else making a product 1310.03s - 1311.99s | or a service with a search box, 1311.99s - 1314.39s | ensuring that you never stumble on a search engine 1314.39s - 1316.39s | that's any better than theirs. 1317.27s - 1320.19s | Which in turn ensures that no one will ever invest 1320.19s - 1321.83s | in a superior search engine, 1321.83s - 1324.27s | even if they are visibly, obviously superior, 1324.27s - 1326.79s | because why bother making something better 1326.79s - 1328.85s | if Google's buying up all the market oxygen 1328.85s - 1331.33s | before it can kindle a product to life? 1331.33s - 1333.69s | Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, 1333.69s - 1335.29s | they are not making things companies, 1335.29s - 1337.31s | they are buying things companies. 1337.31s - 1340.03s | They take advantage of official tolerance 1340.03s - 1342.27s | for anti-competitive acquisitions, 1342.27s - 1345.87s | predatory pricing, market-distorting exclusivity deals, 1345.91s - 1348.79s | and other acts specifically prohibited 1348.79s - 1350.91s | by our antitrust laws. 1350.91s - 1352.69s | They become too big to fail 1352.69s - 1354.63s | because that makes them too big to jail, 1354.63s - 1356.99s | and then they become too big to care, 1356.99s - 1359.63s | which is why Google Search is a pile of shit, 1359.63s - 1362.15s | and everything on Amazon is dropship garbage 1362.15s - 1364.19s | that instantly disintegrates into a cloud 1364.19s - 1366.23s | of off-gas, volatile, organic compounds 1366.23s - 1367.43s | when you open the box. 1368.99s - 1371.67s | Once companies no longer fear losing your business 1371.67s - 1373.67s | to a competitor, it is much easier for them 1373.67s - 1376.27s | to treat you badly because what are you going to do? 1376.27s - 1378.99s | Remember when Lily Tomlin would be Ernestine, 1378.99s - 1381.35s | the AT&T operator on those SNL sketches 1381.35s - 1383.07s | where she'd do ads for the Bell system, 1383.07s - 1386.37s | and they'd end with, we don't care, we don't have to, 1386.37s - 1388.71s | we're the phone company. 1388.71s - 1390.55s | Competition is the first force 1390.55s - 1392.43s | that serves to discipline companies 1392.43s - 1395.63s | and the insidificatory impulses of their leadership, 1395.63s - 1399.67s


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makes them too big to jail, 1354.63s - 1356.99s | and then they become too big to care, 1356.99s - 1359.63s | which is why Google Search is a pile of shit, 1359.63s - 1362.15s | and everything on Amazon is dropship garbage 1362.15s - 1364.19s | that instantly disintegrates into a cloud 1364.19s - 1366.23s | of off-gas, volatile, organic compounds 1366.23s - 1367.43s | when you open the box. 1368.99s - 1371.67s | Once companies no longer fear losing your business 1371.67s - 1373.67s | to a competitor, it is much easier for them 1373.67s - 1376.27s | to treat you badly because what are you going to do? 1376.27s - 1378.99s | Remember when Lily Tomlin would be Ernestine, 1378.99s - 1381.35s | the AT&T operator on those SNL sketches 1381.35s - 1383.07s | where she'd do ads for the Bell system, 1383.07s - 1386.37s | and they'd end with, we don't care, we don't have to, 1386.37s - 1388.71s | we're the phone company. 1388.71s - 1390.55s | Competition is the first force 1390.55s - 1392.43s | that serves to discipline companies 1392.43s - 1395.63s | and the insidificatory impulses of their leadership, 1395.63s - 1399.67s | and 40 years ago, we stopped enforcing the competition law. 1399.67s - 1403.87s | Now, it takes an especially smooth-brained type of asshole, 1403.87s - 1406.19s | that is, an establishment economist, 1406.19s - 1409.59s | to insist that the collapse of every single industry 1409.59s - 1411.67s | from eyeglasses to vitamin C 1411.67s - 1413.99s | into a cartel of five or fewer companies 1413.99s - 1416.47s | has nothing to do with the policies that we embraced 1416.47s - 1419.19s | that deliberately encouraged monopoly formation. 1419.19s - 1421.19s | It's like we used to put down rat poison, 1421.19s - 1422.71s | and we didn't have a rat problem, 1422.71s - 1424.33s | and then these dickheads convinced us 1424.33s - 1427.93s | to stop putting poison down because rats are good for us. 1427.93s - 1429.47s | We stopped putting the poison down, 1430.27s - 1431.55s | and now rats are eating our faces, 1431.55s - 1433.07s | and they're all running around saying, 1433.07s - 1435.79s | who's to say where all the rats are coming from? 1435.79s - 1438.39s | Maybe it's because we stopped putting down rat poison, 1438.39s - 1441.51s


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| and 40 years ago, we stopped enforcing the competition law. 1399.67s - 1403.87s | Now, it takes an especially smooth-brained type of asshole, 1403.87s - 1406.19s | that is, an establishment economist, 1406.19s - 1409.59s | to insist that the collapse of every single industry 1409.59s - 1411.67s | from eyeglasses to vitamin C 1411.67s - 1413.99s | into a cartel of five or fewer companies 1413.99s - 1416.47s | has nothing to do with the policies that we embraced 1416.47s - 1419.19s | that deliberately encouraged monopoly formation. 1419.19s - 1421.19s | It's like we used to put down rat poison, 1421.19s - 1422.71s | and we didn't have a rat problem, 1422.71s - 1424.33s | and then these dickheads convinced us 1424.33s - 1427.93s | to stop putting poison down because rats are good for us. 1427.93s - 1429.47s | We stopped putting the poison down, 1430.27s - 1431.55s | and now rats are eating our faces, 1431.55s - 1433.07s | and they're all running around saying, 1433.07s - 1435.79s | who's to say where all the rats are coming from? 1435.79s - 1438.39s | Maybe it's because we stopped putting down rat poison, 1438.39s - 1441.51s | but maybe it's just the time of the rats. 1441.51s - 1444.63s | The great forces of history are bearing down on this moment 1444.63s - 1446.91s | to multiply rats beyond all measure, 1446.91s - 1449.87s | and nothing we can do would stop that. 1449.87s - 1452.29s | Antitrust did not slip down a staircase 1452.29s - 1455.39s | and fall back first onto a stiletto. 1455.39s - 1458.15s | They stabbed it in the back, and then they pushed it, 1458.15s - 1459.59s | and when they killed antitrust, 1459.59s - 1461.91s | they killed all hope of regulation. 1461.91s - 1465.71s | Regulation is the second force that disciplines companies. 1465.71s - 1467.99s | Regulation is possible, 1467.99s - 1470.47s | but only when the regulator is more powerful 1470.47s - 1472.81s | than the entities that it regulates. 1472.81s - 1475.55s | When a company is bigger than the government, 1475.55s - 1477.99s | it gets damned hard to credibly threaten them 1479.15s - 1481.67s | no matter what crimes they're committing. 1481.67s - 1484.23s | That's what protected IBM for all those years 1484.23s - 1485.67s | when it had its boot on


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| but maybe it's just the time of the rats. 1441.51s - 1444.63s | The great forces of history are bearing down on this moment 1444.63s - 1446.91s | to multiply rats beyond all measure, 1446.91s - 1449.87s | and nothing we can do would stop that. 1449.87s - 1452.29s | Antitrust did not slip down a staircase 1452.29s - 1455.39s | and fall back first onto a stiletto. 1455.39s - 1458.15s | They stabbed it in the back, and then they pushed it, 1458.15s - 1459.59s | and when they killed antitrust, 1459.59s - 1461.91s | they killed all hope of regulation. 1461.91s - 1465.71s | Regulation is the second force that disciplines companies. 1465.71s - 1467.99s | Regulation is possible, 1467.99s - 1470.47s | but only when the regulator is more powerful 1470.47s - 1472.81s | than the entities that it regulates. 1472.81s - 1475.55s | When a company is bigger than the government, 1475.55s - 1477.99s | it gets damned hard to credibly threaten them 1479.15s - 1481.67s | no matter what crimes they're committing. 1481.67s - 1484.23s | That's what protected IBM for all those years 1484.23s - 1485.67s | when it had its boot on the throat 1485.67s - 1487.55s | of the American tech industry. 1487.55s - 1490.75s | Do you know that the DOJ fought an antitrust case 1490.75s - 1494.07s | against IBM from 1970 to 1982? 1494.07s - 1496.39s | They called it Antitrust Vietnam, 1496.39s - 1499.23s | and that every year for 12 consecutive years, 1499.23s - 1501.03s | IBM spent more on lawyers 1501.03s - 1503.73s | to fight the U.S. Department of Justice Antitrust Division 1503.73s - 1504.99s | than all the lawyers 1504.99s - 1507.45s | the U.S. Department of Justice Antitrust Division paid 1507.45s - 1511.91s | to fight all the cases in America, 12 consecutive years, 1511.91s - 1515.27s | and that paid off because by 1982, 1515.27s - 1516.87s | the president was Ronald Reagan, 1516.91s - 1518.27s | a man whose official policy 1518.27s - 1520.03s | was that monopolies were efficient, 1520.03s - 1521.31s | and he dropped the case, 1521.31s - 1523.91s | and Big Blue wriggled off the hook. 1523.91s - 1526.03s | It's hard to regulate a monopolist. 1526.03s - 1528.43s | It's hard to regulate a cartel. 1528.43s - 1530.61s | When a sector is composed of


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the throat 1485.67s - 1487.55s | of the American tech industry. 1487.55s - 1490.75s | Do you know that the DOJ fought an antitrust case 1490.75s - 1494.07s | against IBM from 1970 to 1982? 1494.07s - 1496.39s | They called it Antitrust Vietnam, 1496.39s - 1499.23s | and that every year for 12 consecutive years, 1499.23s - 1501.03s | IBM spent more on lawyers 1501.03s - 1503.73s | to fight the U.S. Department of Justice Antitrust Division 1503.73s - 1504.99s | than all the lawyers 1504.99s - 1507.45s | the U.S. Department of Justice Antitrust Division paid 1507.45s - 1511.91s | to fight all the cases in America, 12 consecutive years, 1511.91s - 1515.27s | and that paid off because by 1982, 1515.27s - 1516.87s | the president was Ronald Reagan, 1516.91s - 1518.27s | a man whose official policy 1518.27s - 1520.03s | was that monopolies were efficient, 1520.03s - 1521.31s | and he dropped the case, 1521.31s - 1523.91s | and Big Blue wriggled off the hook. 1523.91s - 1526.03s | It's hard to regulate a monopolist. 1526.03s - 1528.43s | It's hard to regulate a cartel. 1528.43s - 1530.61s | When a sector is composed of hundreds 1530.61s - 1533.75s | of competing companies, well, they compete. 1533.75s - 1535.59s | They genuinely fight with one another. 1535.59s - 1537.79s | They're trying to poach each other's customers, 1537.79s - 1540.07s | suppliers, and key employees. 1540.07s - 1542.07s | They are at each other's throats. 1542.07s - 1545.39s | It's hard enough to get a couple of hundred executives 1545.39s - 1546.95s | to agree on anything, 1546.95s - 1549.63s | but when they're legitimately competing with one another, 1549.63s - 1552.59s | really obsessing about how to eat each other's lunches, 1552.59s - 1554.83s | they can't agree on anything. 1554.83s - 1556.79s | The second one of them goes to a regulator 1556.79s - 1558.51s | with some bullshit story 1558.51s - 1561.35s | about how it's impossible to build a decent search engine 1561.35s - 1563.11s | without fine-grained surveillance, 1563.11s - 1564.55s | or impossible to have a secure 1564.55s - 1566.31s | and easy-to-use operating system 1566.31s - 1569.27s | without giving a veto to the vendor 1569.27s - 1570.75s | about which apps you run, 1570.75s - 1573.87s | or how it's impossible to administer an ISP 1573.87s -


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hundreds 1530.61s - 1533.75s | of competing companies, well, they compete. 1533.75s - 1535.59s | They genuinely fight with one another. 1535.59s - 1537.79s | They're trying to poach each other's customers, 1537.79s - 1540.07s | suppliers, and key employees. 1540.07s - 1542.07s | They are at each other's throats. 1542.07s - 1545.39s | It's hard enough to get a couple of hundred executives 1545.39s - 1546.95s | to agree on anything, 1546.95s - 1549.63s | but when they're legitimately competing with one another, 1549.63s - 1552.59s | really obsessing about how to eat each other's lunches, 1552.59s - 1554.83s | they can't agree on anything. 1554.83s - 1556.79s | The second one of them goes to a regulator 1556.79s - 1558.51s | with some bullshit story 1558.51s - 1561.35s | about how it's impossible to build a decent search engine 1561.35s - 1563.11s | without fine-grained surveillance, 1563.11s - 1564.55s | or impossible to have a secure 1564.55s - 1566.31s | and easy-to-use operating system 1566.31s - 1569.27s | without giving a veto to the vendor 1569.27s - 1570.75s | about which apps you run, 1570.75s - 1573.87s | or how it's impossible to administer an ISP 1573.87s - 1575.95s | unless you slow down connections to servers 1575.95s - 1578.07s | that haven't paid for premium carriage, 1578.07s - 1579.91s | there's going to be some other company saying, 1579.91s - 1581.35s | no, that's bullshit. 1581.35s - 1582.27s | We managed it. 1582.27s - 1583.15s | Here's our logs. 1583.15s - 1584.67s | Here's our quarterly cashbooks, 1584.67s - 1586.23s | and here's our customer testimonials, 1586.23s - 1588.95s | and they prove that these guys are lying. 1588.95s - 1591.05s | A hundred companies are a rabble. 1591.05s - 1592.11s | They are a mob. 1592.11s - 1594.05s | They can't agree on a lobbying position. 1594.05s - 1596.31s | They're too busy eating each other's lunch 1596.31s - 1598.23s | to figure out how to cater a meeting 1598.23s - 1601.11s | where they would discuss a common lobbying position. 1601.11s - 1604.67s | But let those hundred companies merge to monopoly. 1604.67s - 1608.27s | Let them absorb one another in an incestuous orgy, 1608.27s - 1610.75s | turn into five giant companies so inbred 1610.75s - 1613.23s | they get corporate Habsburg Jaws, 1613.23s - 1616.19s | and they will become a cartel.


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1575.95s | unless you slow down connections to servers 1575.95s - 1578.07s | that haven't paid for premium carriage, 1578.07s - 1579.91s | there's going to be some other company saying, 1579.91s - 1581.35s | no, that's bullshit. 1581.35s - 1582.27s | We managed it. 1582.27s - 1583.15s | Here's our logs. 1583.15s - 1584.67s | Here's our quarterly cashbooks, 1584.67s - 1586.23s | and here's our customer testimonials, 1586.23s - 1588.95s | and they prove that these guys are lying. 1588.95s - 1591.05s | A hundred companies are a rabble. 1591.05s - 1592.11s | They are a mob. 1592.11s - 1594.05s | They can't agree on a lobbying position. 1594.05s - 1596.31s | They're too busy eating each other's lunch 1596.31s - 1598.23s | to figure out how to cater a meeting 1598.23s - 1601.11s | where they would discuss a common lobbying position. 1601.11s - 1604.67s | But let those hundred companies merge to monopoly. 1604.67s - 1608.27s | Let them absorb one another in an incestuous orgy, 1608.27s - 1610.75s | turn into five giant companies so inbred 1610.75s - 1613.23s | they get corporate Habsburg Jaws, 1613.23s - 1616.19s | and they will become a cartel. 1616.19s - 1618.03s | And it's easy for a cartel to agree 1618.03s - 1620.57s | on what bullshit they're going to tell their regulators, 1620.57s - 1623.27s | and to mobilize some of those excess billions 1623.27s - 1625.27s | that they've reaped through consolidation, 1625.27s - 1627.99s | which freed them from wasteful competition 1627.99s - 1631.15s | so that they can capture their regulators completely. 1631.15s - 1633.11s | You know, Congress used to pass 1633.11s - 1634.79s | consumer federal privacy laws 1634.79s - 1636.77s | whenever we got a new technology. 1636.77s - 1637.99s | Not anymore. 1637.99s - 1640.07s | The last time Congress managed to sit down 1640.07s - 1642.61s | and pass a federal consumer privacy law in this country 1642.61s - 1647.31s | was 1988, the Video Privacy Protection Act. 1647.31s - 1649.81s | It bans video store clerks from telling newspapers 1649.81s - 1652.19s | which VHS cassettes you took home. 1652.19s - 1654.01s | In other words, it regulates three things 1654.01s - 1655.85s | that no longer exist. 1656.85s - 1659.33s | The threat of having your video rental history 1659.33s - 1661.85s | out there in the


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1616.19s - 1618.03s | And it's easy for a cartel to agree 1618.03s - 1620.57s | on what bullshit they're going to tell their regulators, 1620.57s - 1623.27s | and to mobilize some of those excess billions 1623.27s - 1625.27s | that they've reaped through consolidation, 1625.27s - 1627.99s | which freed them from wasteful competition 1627.99s - 1631.15s | so that they can capture their regulators completely. 1631.15s - 1633.11s | You know, Congress used to pass 1633.11s - 1634.79s | consumer federal privacy laws 1634.79s - 1636.77s | whenever we got a new technology. 1636.77s - 1637.99s | Not anymore. 1637.99s - 1640.07s | The last time Congress managed to sit down 1640.07s - 1642.61s | and pass a federal consumer privacy law in this country 1642.61s - 1647.31s | was 1988, the Video Privacy Protection Act. 1647.31s - 1649.81s | It bans video store clerks from telling newspapers 1649.81s - 1652.19s | which VHS cassettes you took home. 1652.19s - 1654.01s | In other words, it regulates three things 1654.01s - 1655.85s | that no longer exist. 1656.85s - 1659.33s | The threat of having your video rental history 1659.33s - 1661.85s | out there in the public eye was not the last 1661.85s - 1663.69s | or the most important privacy threat 1663.69s - 1665.65s | we have faced since 1988, 1665.65s - 1668.11s | and yet Congress has completely failed 1668.11s - 1669.41s | to pass a privacy law. 1670.27s - 1673.21s | Tech companies' regulatory capture 1673.21s - 1675.85s | involves a risible and transparent gambit 1675.85s - 1677.75s | that is so stupid it's an insult 1677.75s - 1679.81s | to all those risible, transparent gambits 1679.81s - 1682.43s | working so hard out there in the world every day. 1682.43s - 1683.83s | That gambit is that they claim 1683.83s - 1685.61s | that when they violate your consumer, 1686.37s - 1687.63s | your privacy, or your labor rights, 1687.63s - 1690.65s | that it's not a crime because they did it with an app. 1690.65s - 1693.29s | Algorithmic wage discrimination is not wage theft. 1693.29s - 1694.53s | We did it with an app. 1695.53s - 1697.67s | Spying on you from asshole to appetite, 1697.67s - 1699.25s | not a privacy violation. 1699.25s - 1700.85s | We did it with an app. 1700.85s - 1704.37s | An Amazon scam


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public eye was not the last 1661.85s - 1663.69s | or the most important privacy threat 1663.69s - 1665.65s | we have faced since 1988, 1665.65s - 1668.11s | and yet Congress has completely failed 1668.11s - 1669.41s | to pass a privacy law. 1670.27s - 1673.21s | Tech companies' regulatory capture 1673.21s - 1675.85s | involves a risible and transparent gambit 1675.85s - 1677.75s | that is so stupid it's an insult 1677.75s - 1679.81s | to all those risible, transparent gambits 1679.81s - 1682.43s | working so hard out there in the world every day. 1682.43s - 1683.83s | That gambit is that they claim 1683.83s - 1685.61s | that when they violate your consumer, 1686.37s - 1687.63s | your privacy, or your labor rights, 1687.63s - 1690.65s | that it's not a crime because they did it with an app. 1690.65s - 1693.29s | Algorithmic wage discrimination is not wage theft. 1693.29s - 1694.53s | We did it with an app. 1695.53s - 1697.67s | Spying on you from asshole to appetite, 1697.67s - 1699.25s | not a privacy violation. 1699.25s - 1700.85s | We did it with an app. 1700.85s - 1704.37s | An Amazon scam that tricks people into paying 29% 1704.37s - 1706.65s | more than the best match for their search, 1706.65s - 1708.33s | they did it with an app. 1708.33s - 1709.65s | Once we kill competition, 1709.65s - 1711.93s | once we stop putting down rat poison, 1711.93s - 1713.29s | we got cartels. 1713.29s - 1715.33s | The rats came and ate our faces. 1716.09s - 1717.69s | And the cartels captured their regulators. 1717.69s - 1720.17s | The rats bought out the poison factory 1720.17s - 1721.69s | and they shut it down. 1721.69s - 1723.25s | So companies are not constrained 1723.25s - 1725.45s | by competition or regulation. 1725.45s - 1726.37s | But you know what? 1726.37s - 1727.39s | This is tech. 1727.39s - 1729.17s | And tech is different. 1729.17s - 1731.41s | It is different because it's flexible. 1731.41s - 1734.13s | Because our computers are these marvelous things 1734.13s - 1737.61s | called Turing-complete universal von Neumann machines. 1737.61s - 1741.05s | And that means that any insidificatory alteration 1741.05s - 1744.85s | to a program can be disinsidified with another program. 1744.85s - 1747.33s | Every time HP jacks up the


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that tricks people into paying 29% 1704.37s - 1706.65s | more than the best match for their search, 1706.65s - 1708.33s | they did it with an app. 1708.33s - 1709.65s | Once we kill competition, 1709.65s - 1711.93s | once we stop putting down rat poison, 1711.93s - 1713.29s | we got cartels. 1713.29s - 1715.33s | The rats came and ate our faces. 1716.09s - 1717.69s | And the cartels captured their regulators. 1717.69s - 1720.17s | The rats bought out the poison factory 1720.17s - 1721.69s | and they shut it down. 1721.69s - 1723.25s | So companies are not constrained 1723.25s - 1725.45s | by competition or regulation. 1725.45s - 1726.37s | But you know what? 1726.37s - 1727.39s | This is tech. 1727.39s - 1729.17s | And tech is different. 1729.17s - 1731.41s | It is different because it's flexible. 1731.41s - 1734.13s | Because our computers are these marvelous things 1734.13s - 1737.61s | called Turing-complete universal von Neumann machines. 1737.61s - 1741.05s | And that means that any insidificatory alteration 1741.05s - 1744.85s | to a program can be disinsidified with another program. 1744.85s - 1747.33s | Every time HP jacks up the price of ink, 1747.33s - 1749.73s | they invite a competitor to make a refill kit 1749.73s - 1751.45s | or a compatible cartridge. 1751.45s - 1753.65s | When Tesla installs code 1753.65s - 1756.53s | that only lets you use half the charge in your battery, 1756.53s - 1758.67s | they invite a modder to start selling kits 1758.67s - 1760.05s | to jailbreak your Tesla 1760.05s - 1762.41s | so you can charge your whole battery. 1762.41s - 1765.11s | Let me take you through a little example of how this works. 1765.11s - 1767.13s | Imagine that instead of being here at DEF CON, 1767.13s - 1770.25s | we're at a product design meeting for our company's website. 1770.25s - 1771.73s | And the guy leading the meeting puts his hand up 1771.73s - 1773.57s | and he says, all right, folks, here it is. 1773.57s - 1776.13s | Our KPI is top-line ad revenue. 1776.13s - 1778.01s | I figured out if we make the ads 1778.01s - 1780.41s | 20% more invasive and obnoxious, 1780.41s - 1782.57s | we're going to get 2% more ad revenue. 1782.57s - 1783.89s | We're all going to get


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price of ink, 1747.33s - 1749.73s | they invite a competitor to make a refill kit 1749.73s - 1751.45s | or a compatible cartridge. 1751.45s - 1753.65s | When Tesla installs code 1753.65s - 1756.53s | that only lets you use half the charge in your battery, 1756.53s - 1758.67s | they invite a modder to start selling kits 1758.67s - 1760.05s | to jailbreak your Tesla 1760.05s - 1762.41s | so you can charge your whole battery. 1762.41s - 1765.11s | Let me take you through a little example of how this works. 1765.11s - 1767.13s | Imagine that instead of being here at DEF CON, 1767.13s - 1770.25s | we're at a product design meeting for our company's website. 1770.25s - 1771.73s | And the guy leading the meeting puts his hand up 1771.73s - 1773.57s | and he says, all right, folks, here it is. 1773.57s - 1776.13s | Our KPI is top-line ad revenue. 1776.13s - 1778.01s | I figured out if we make the ads 1778.01s - 1780.41s | 20% more invasive and obnoxious, 1780.41s - 1782.57s | we're going to get 2% more ad revenue. 1782.57s - 1783.89s | We're all going to get a ski holiday 1783.89s - 1785.49s | in Switzerland this year. 1785.49s - 1787.73s | And one guy sticks his hand up and he says, 1787.73s - 1789.69s | I love how you think, Elon, 1789.69s - 1794.92s | but has it occurred to you 1794.92s - 1797.88s | that if we make the ads 20% more obnoxious, 1797.88s - 1800.76s | then 40% of our users will go to a search engine 1800.76s - 1802.68s | and type, how do I stop seeing ads? 1802.68s - 1804.40s | I mean, what a nightmare. 1804.40s - 1806.56s | Because once a user does that, 1806.56s - 1808.42s | the revenue from that user doesn't rise 1808.42s - 1810.40s | to the projected 102%. 1810.40s - 1812.24s | It doesn't stay static at 100%. 1812.24s - 1813.12s | It goes to zero. 1813.12s - 1815.20s | It stays there forever. 1815.20s - 1817.12s | Any guesses why it never comes back? 1818.56s - 1820.48s | No one ever went back to the search engine 1820.48s - 1822.68s | and typed, how do I start seeing ads again? 1824.28s - 1826.72s | Once the user jailbreaks their phone 1826.72s - 1828.54s |


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a ski holiday 1783.89s - 1785.49s | in Switzerland this year. 1785.49s - 1787.73s | And one guy sticks his hand up and he says, 1787.73s - 1789.69s | I love how you think, Elon, 1789.69s - 1794.92s | but has it occurred to you 1794.92s - 1797.88s | that if we make the ads 20% more obnoxious, 1797.88s - 1800.76s | then 40% of our users will go to a search engine 1800.76s - 1802.68s | and type, how do I stop seeing ads? 1802.68s - 1804.40s | I mean, what a nightmare. 1804.40s - 1806.56s | Because once a user does that, 1806.56s - 1808.42s | the revenue from that user doesn't rise 1808.42s - 1810.40s | to the projected 102%. 1810.40s - 1812.24s | It doesn't stay static at 100%. 1812.24s - 1813.12s | It goes to zero. 1813.12s - 1815.20s | It stays there forever. 1815.20s - 1817.12s | Any guesses why it never comes back? 1818.56s - 1820.48s | No one ever went back to the search engine 1820.48s - 1822.68s | and typed, how do I start seeing ads again? 1824.28s - 1826.72s | Once the user jailbreaks their phone 1826.72s - 1828.54s | or discovers third-party ink 1828.54s - 1829.72s | or develops a relationship 1829.72s - 1831.64s | with an independent Tesla mechanic 1831.64s - 1834.14s | who'll unlock all the DLC in their car, 1834.88s - 1836.90s | that user is gone forever. 1836.90s - 1841.02s | Interoperability, that latent property bequeathed to us, 1841.02s - 1843.70s | courtesy of Harris, Turing, and von Neumann, 1843.70s - 1846.74s | and their infinitely flexible universal machines 1846.74s - 1850.50s | is a very serious check on and shitification. 1850.50s - 1852.26s | The fact that Congress hasn't passed 1852.26s - 1854.30s | a privacy law since 1988, 1854.30s - 1855.98s | in part, you can counter that 1857.66s - 1859.90s | with the fact that the majority of web users 1859.90s - 1861.58s | are now running ad blockers, 1861.58s - 1863.94s | which are also privacy blockers. 1864.70s - 1867.26s | But no one's ever installed a tracker blocker for an app 1867.26s - 1869.22s | because reverse engineering an app 1869.22s - 1872.34s | puts you in jeopardy of criminal and civil prosecution 1872.34s - 1875.54s | under section 1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act 1875.54s - 1877.90s |


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or discovers third-party ink 1828.54s - 1829.72s | or develops a relationship 1829.72s - 1831.64s | with an independent Tesla mechanic 1831.64s - 1834.14s | who'll unlock all the DLC in their car, 1834.88s - 1836.90s | that user is gone forever. 1836.90s - 1841.02s | Interoperability, that latent property bequeathed to us, 1841.02s - 1843.70s | courtesy of Harris, Turing, and von Neumann, 1843.70s - 1846.74s | and their infinitely flexible universal machines 1846.74s - 1850.50s | is a very serious check on and shitification. 1850.50s - 1852.26s | The fact that Congress hasn't passed 1852.26s - 1854.30s | a privacy law since 1988, 1854.30s - 1855.98s | in part, you can counter that 1857.66s - 1859.90s | with the fact that the majority of web users 1859.90s - 1861.58s | are now running ad blockers, 1861.58s - 1863.94s | which are also privacy blockers. 1864.70s - 1867.26s | But no one's ever installed a tracker blocker for an app 1867.26s - 1869.22s | because reverse engineering an app 1869.22s - 1872.34s | puts you in jeopardy of criminal and civil prosecution 1872.34s - 1875.54s | under section 1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act 1875.54s - 1877.90s | with penalties of a five-year prison sentence 1877.90s - 1881.46s | and a $500,000 fine for a first offense. 1881.46s - 1883.50s | And violating those terms of service 1883.50s - 1886.72s | puts you in jeopardy under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, 1886.72s - 1890.50s | a 1986 law that Ronald Reagan was stampeded into passing 1890.50s - 1893.08s | after watching war games and freaking out. 1893.08s - 1894.02s | Seriously. 1895.00s - 1897.20s | Helping others violate the terms of service 1897.20s - 1900.40s | by giving them a mod, that makes you a tortfeasor 1900.40s - 1903.48s | engaged in tortious interference with contract. 1903.48s - 1905.88s | And then there's trademark, copyright, patent, 1905.88s - 1908.20s | all the nonsense we call IP, 1908.20s - 1910.12s | but which Jay Freeman from the City of Project 1910.12s - 1913.36s | calls felony contempt of business model. 1913.36s - 1915.44s | So we're back at that product planning meeting, 1915.44s - 1917.00s | and now it's time to talk about our app. 1917.00s - 1918.32s | And the guy leading the meeting, he says, 1918.32s - 1920.52s | all right, we're gonna make the ads


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with penalties of a five-year prison sentence 1877.90s - 1881.46s | and a $500,000 fine for a first offense. 1881.46s - 1883.50s | And violating those terms of service 1883.50s - 1886.72s | puts you in jeopardy under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, 1886.72s - 1890.50s | a 1986 law that Ronald Reagan was stampeded into passing 1890.50s - 1893.08s | after watching war games and freaking out. 1893.08s - 1894.02s | Seriously. 1895.00s - 1897.20s | Helping others violate the terms of service 1897.20s - 1900.40s | by giving them a mod, that makes you a tortfeasor 1900.40s - 1903.48s | engaged in tortious interference with contract. 1903.48s - 1905.88s | And then there's trademark, copyright, patent, 1905.88s - 1908.20s | all the nonsense we call IP, 1908.20s - 1910.12s | but which Jay Freeman from the City of Project 1910.12s - 1913.36s | calls felony contempt of business model. 1913.36s - 1915.44s | So we're back at that product planning meeting, 1915.44s - 1917.00s | and now it's time to talk about our app. 1917.00s - 1918.32s | And the guy leading the meeting, he says, 1918.32s - 1920.52s | all right, we're gonna make the ads in the app 1920.52s - 1921.80s | 20% more obnoxious. 1921.80s - 1923.24s | And everyone turns to the loud mouth 1923.24s - 1925.40s | who shot it down last time, and he says, 1925.40s - 1928.70s | no, no, that's fine, but look, why are we stopping at 20%? 1928.70s - 1931.52s | Why don't we make the ads 100% more obnoxious 1931.52s - 1933.24s | and get 10% more revenue? 1933.24s - 1935.24s | Because we don't care if the user goes and types, 1935.24s - 1937.82s | how do I stop seeing ads into a search engine? 1937.82s - 1939.76s | Because you can't. 1939.76s - 1942.64s | So YOLO, just in shitify away. 1942.64s - 1946.04s | IP is a euphemism for any law that lets an executive 1946.04s - 1948.16s | reach outside of the walls of their business 1948.16s - 1951.16s | and exert control over customers, critics, and competitors. 1951.52s - 1953.48s | And an app is just a webpage skinned 1953.48s - 1955.84s | with the right kind of IP to make it a felony 1955.84s - 1957.20s | to put an ad blocker in it. 1960.20s - 1963.36s | Thank you.


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in the app 1920.52s - 1921.80s | 20% more obnoxious. 1921.80s - 1923.24s | And everyone turns to the loud mouth 1923.24s - 1925.40s | who shot it down last time, and he says, 1925.40s - 1928.70s | no, no, that's fine, but look, why are we stopping at 20%? 1928.70s - 1931.52s | Why don't we make the ads 100% more obnoxious 1931.52s - 1933.24s | and get 10% more revenue? 1933.24s - 1935.24s | Because we don't care if the user goes and types, 1935.24s - 1937.82s | how do I stop seeing ads into a search engine? 1937.82s - 1939.76s | Because you can't. 1939.76s - 1942.64s | So YOLO, just in shitify away. 1942.64s - 1946.04s | IP is a euphemism for any law that lets an executive 1946.04s - 1948.16s | reach outside of the walls of their business 1948.16s - 1951.16s | and exert control over customers, critics, and competitors. 1951.52s - 1953.48s | And an app is just a webpage skinned 1953.48s - 1955.84s | with the right kind of IP to make it a felony 1955.84s - 1957.20s | to put an ad blocker in it. 1960.20s - 1963.36s | Thank you. 1963.36s - 1966.28s | Interop used to stop companies from shitifying. 1966.28s - 1968.54s | If companies made their clients suck, 1968.54s - 1970.64s | someone rolled out an alternative client. 1970.64s - 1972.96s | If they ripped out a feature and wanted to sell it 1972.96s - 1974.96s | back to us as a monthly subscription, 1974.96s - 1976.96s | someone would make a compatible plugin 1976.96s - 1980.00s | that worked for a one-time fee or, you know, for free. 1980.00s - 1983.58s | To help people flee MySpace, Facebook gave them a bot. 1983.58s - 1986.18s | You gave that bot your login and password for MySpace. 1986.18s - 1988.06s | It would log in as you several times a day, 1988.06s - 1989.26s | scrape your waiting messages, 1989.26s - 1990.70s | put them in your Facebook inbox, 1990.70s - 1993.58s | and autopilot them back out onto Facebook. 1993.58s - 1995.66s | So you didn't have to choose between the people you loved 1995.66s - 1997.82s | who were on MySpace and Facebook, 1997.82s - 2000.42s | which had promised that it would never spy on you. 2000.42s - 2002.10s | Do you remember that?


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1963.36s - 1966.28s | Interop used to stop companies from shitifying. 1966.28s - 1968.54s | If companies made their clients suck, 1968.54s - 1970.64s | someone rolled out an alternative client. 1970.64s - 1972.96s | If they ripped out a feature and wanted to sell it 1972.96s - 1974.96s | back to us as a monthly subscription, 1974.96s - 1976.96s | someone would make a compatible plugin 1976.96s - 1980.00s | that worked for a one-time fee or, you know, for free. 1980.00s - 1983.58s | To help people flee MySpace, Facebook gave them a bot. 1983.58s - 1986.18s | You gave that bot your login and password for MySpace. 1986.18s - 1988.06s | It would log in as you several times a day, 1988.06s - 1989.26s | scrape your waiting messages, 1989.26s - 1990.70s | put them in your Facebook inbox, 1990.70s - 1993.58s | and autopilot them back out onto Facebook. 1993.58s - 1995.66s | So you didn't have to choose between the people you loved 1995.66s - 1997.82s | who were on MySpace and Facebook, 1997.82s - 2000.42s | which had promised that it would never spy on you. 2000.42s - 2002.10s | Do you remember that? 2002.10s - 2004.34s | Now, thanks to the metastasis of IP, 2004.34s - 2006.78s | all of that is off the table today. 2006.78s - 2010.22s | Apple owes its very existence to the iWork suite, 2010.22s - 2013.36s | pages, numbers, keynote, which are file compatible 2014.14s - 2017.36s | with Microsoft Office, Word, Excel, and PowerPoint. 2017.36s - 2020.46s | But make an iOS runtime that plays back the files 2020.46s - 2022.80s | you bought from Apple stores on other platforms, 2022.80s - 2024.92s | and they will nuke you till you glow. 2026.04s - 2027.60s | Facebook wouldn't have had a hope 2027.60s - 2029.64s | of breaking MySpace's grip on social media 2029.64s - 2032.32s | without that scraper, but scrape Facebook today 2032.32s - 2034.00s | in support of an alternative client, 2034.00s - 2037.32s | and their lawyers will bomb you until the rubble bounces. 2037.32s - 2039.16s | Google scraped every website in the world 2039.16s - 2040.56s | to create a search index. 2040.56s - 2042.00s | Try and scrape Google, 2042.00s - 2044.36s | and your head will be on a pike. 2044.36s - 2046.10s | When they did it,


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2002.10s - 2004.34s | Now, thanks to the metastasis of IP, 2004.34s - 2006.78s | all of that is off the table today. 2006.78s - 2010.22s | Apple owes its very existence to the iWork suite, 2010.22s - 2013.36s | pages, numbers, keynote, which are file compatible 2014.14s - 2017.36s | with Microsoft Office, Word, Excel, and PowerPoint. 2017.36s - 2020.46s | But make an iOS runtime that plays back the files 2020.46s - 2022.80s | you bought from Apple stores on other platforms, 2022.80s - 2024.92s | and they will nuke you till you glow. 2026.04s - 2027.60s | Facebook wouldn't have had a hope 2027.60s - 2029.64s | of breaking MySpace's grip on social media 2029.64s - 2032.32s | without that scraper, but scrape Facebook today 2032.32s - 2034.00s | in support of an alternative client, 2034.00s - 2037.32s | and their lawyers will bomb you until the rubble bounces. 2037.32s - 2039.16s | Google scraped every website in the world 2039.16s - 2040.56s | to create a search index. 2040.56s - 2042.00s | Try and scrape Google, 2042.00s - 2044.36s | and your head will be on a pike. 2044.36s - 2046.10s | When they did it, that was progress. 2046.10s - 2048.32s | When you do it, that is piracy. 2048.32s - 2050.96s | Every pirate wants to be an admiral. 2050.96s - 2052.84s | And because this handful of companies 2052.84s - 2055.16s | has so thoroughly captured their regulator, 2055.16s - 2058.24s | they can wield the power of the state against you 2058.24s - 2060.44s | when you try to break their grip on power, 2060.44s - 2063.52s | even as their own flagrant violations of our rights 2063.52s - 2067.00s | go unpunished because they do them with an app. 2067.00s - 2069.24s | Tech lost its fear of competition. 2069.24s - 2071.68s | It neutralized the threat from its regulators, 2072.36s - 2073.84s | and then it put those regulators in harness 2073.84s - 2076.52s | to attack new startups who might do unto them 2076.52s - 2079.96s | as they did unto everyone who dominated before them. 2079.96s - 2082.34s | But even then, there was one force 2082.34s - 2085.80s | that still kept our bosses in check, and that was us. 2085.80s - 2087.40s | That was tech workers. 2087.40s - 2090.88s | Tech workers have historically been


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that was progress. 2046.10s - 2048.32s | When you do it, that is piracy. 2048.32s - 2050.96s | Every pirate wants to be an admiral. 2050.96s - 2052.84s | And because this handful of companies 2052.84s - 2055.16s | has so thoroughly captured their regulator, 2055.16s - 2058.24s | they can wield the power of the state against you 2058.24s - 2060.44s | when you try to break their grip on power, 2060.44s - 2063.52s | even as their own flagrant violations of our rights 2063.52s - 2067.00s | go unpunished because they do them with an app. 2067.00s - 2069.24s | Tech lost its fear of competition. 2069.24s - 2071.68s | It neutralized the threat from its regulators, 2072.36s - 2073.84s | and then it put those regulators in harness 2073.84s - 2076.52s | to attack new startups who might do unto them 2076.52s - 2079.96s | as they did unto everyone who dominated before them. 2079.96s - 2082.34s | But even then, there was one force 2082.34s - 2085.80s | that still kept our bosses in check, and that was us. 2085.80s - 2087.40s | That was tech workers. 2087.40s - 2090.88s | Tech workers have historically been in very short supply, 2090.88s - 2094.68s | and that gave us power, and our bosses knew it. 2094.68s - 2098.16s | To get us to work crazy hours, they came up with a trick. 2098.16s - 2100.52s | They appealed to our love of technology. 2100.52s - 2103.72s | They told us we were heroes of the digital transformation, 2103.72s - 2106.20s | that we would organize the world's information 2106.20s - 2107.56s | and make it useful, 2107.56s - 2111.00s | that we would bring the world closer together. 2111.00s - 2113.08s | They brought in expert set dressers 2113.08s - 2116.08s | to turn our workplaces into whimsical campuses 2116.08s - 2118.96s | with free laundry, gourmet cafeterias, 2118.96s - 2121.96s | massages, kombucha, and a surgeon on hand 2121.96s - 2123.28s | who would freeze your eggs 2123.28s - 2125.96s | so you could work through your fertile years. 2125.96s - 2128.96s | They convinced us that we were being pampered 2128.96s - 2130.08s | rather than being tricked 2130.08s - 2132.08s | into working like government mules. 2132.08s - 2133.60s | Now, that trick, it has a name. 2133.60s - 2137.96s | Vovazi Ettar, the


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in very short supply, 2090.88s - 2094.68s | and that gave us power, and our bosses knew it. 2094.68s - 2098.16s | To get us to work crazy hours, they came up with a trick. 2098.16s - 2100.52s | They appealed to our love of technology. 2100.52s - 2103.72s | They told us we were heroes of the digital transformation, 2103.72s - 2106.20s | that we would organize the world's information 2106.20s - 2107.56s | and make it useful, 2107.56s - 2111.00s | that we would bring the world closer together. 2111.00s - 2113.08s | They brought in expert set dressers 2113.08s - 2116.08s | to turn our workplaces into whimsical campuses 2116.08s - 2118.96s | with free laundry, gourmet cafeterias, 2118.96s - 2121.96s | massages, kombucha, and a surgeon on hand 2121.96s - 2123.28s | who would freeze your eggs 2123.28s - 2125.96s | so you could work through your fertile years. 2125.96s - 2128.96s | They convinced us that we were being pampered 2128.96s - 2130.08s | rather than being tricked 2130.08s - 2132.08s | into working like government mules. 2132.08s - 2133.60s | Now, that trick, it has a name. 2133.60s - 2137.96s | Vovazi Ettar, the librarian, she calls it vocational awe, 2137.96s - 2141.44s | but Elon Musk just calls it being extremely hardcore. 2141.44s - 2144.20s | And it worked well. 2144.20s - 2146.64s | We did put in some long-ass hours, 2146.64s - 2149.48s | but for our bosses, this trick failed badly. 2149.48s - 2151.48s | Because if you miss your mother's funeral 2151.48s - 2153.24s | in order to hit some deadline, 2153.24s - 2154.56s | and then your boss orders you 2154.56s - 2157.28s | to insidify the product you missed the funeral for, 2157.28s - 2161.08s | you are going to experience a profound moral injury, 2161.08s - 2165.20s | which you are absolutely gonna make your boss very aware of. 2165.20s - 2167.40s | Because what are they gonna do, fire you? 2167.40s - 2169.32s | They can't hire someone else to do your job, 2169.32s - 2172.64s | and the guy across the street will pay you just as much. 2172.64s - 2174.92s | So workers, we held the line 2174.92s - 2179.04s | when competition, regulation, and interoperability failed. 2179.04s - 2181.28s | But supply caught up with demand. 2181.28s - 2184.52s | Last year, they


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librarian, she calls it vocational awe, 2137.96s - 2141.44s | but Elon Musk just calls it being extremely hardcore. 2141.44s - 2144.20s | And it worked well. 2144.20s - 2146.64s | We did put in some long-ass hours, 2146.64s - 2149.48s | but for our bosses, this trick failed badly. 2149.48s - 2151.48s | Because if you miss your mother's funeral 2151.48s - 2153.24s | in order to hit some deadline, 2153.24s - 2154.56s | and then your boss orders you 2154.56s - 2157.28s | to insidify the product you missed the funeral for, 2157.28s - 2161.08s | you are going to experience a profound moral injury, 2161.08s - 2165.20s | which you are absolutely gonna make your boss very aware of. 2165.20s - 2167.40s | Because what are they gonna do, fire you? 2167.40s - 2169.32s | They can't hire someone else to do your job, 2169.32s - 2172.64s | and the guy across the street will pay you just as much. 2172.64s - 2174.92s | So workers, we held the line 2174.92s - 2179.04s | when competition, regulation, and interoperability failed. 2179.04s - 2181.28s | But supply caught up with demand. 2181.28s - 2184.52s | Last year, they fired 260,000 tech sector workers. 2184.52s - 2187.80s | First six months of this year was another 100,000. 2187.80s - 2189.96s | You can't tell your bosses to go fuck themselves 2189.96s - 2191.52s | because they'll fire your ass 2191.52s - 2193.04s | and give your job to someone else 2193.04s - 2194.96s | who'll be happy to insidify the product 2194.96s - 2196.96s | you sweated blood to ship. 2196.96s - 2200.00s | That's why all this is happening right now. 2200.00s - 2202.20s | Our bosses are not different. 2202.20s - 2204.32s | They did not catch a mind virus 2204.32s - 2206.00s | that turned them into greedy assholes 2206.00s - 2208.04s | who don't care about our users' wellbeing 2208.04s - 2210.00s | or the quality of our products. 2210.00s - 2212.12s | As far as our bosses are concerned, 2213.08s - 2216.20s | the point of that business was to charge the most, 2216.20s - 2218.68s | deliver the least, and share as little as possible 2218.68s - 2221.40s | with suppliers, workers, and customers 2221.40s - 2224.96s | in order to retain money for shareholders and executives. 2224.96s - 2226.88s | They are


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fired 260,000 tech sector workers. 2184.52s - 2187.80s | First six months of this year was another 100,000. 2187.80s - 2189.96s | You can't tell your bosses to go fuck themselves 2189.96s - 2191.52s | because they'll fire your ass 2191.52s - 2193.04s | and give your job to someone else 2193.04s - 2194.96s | who'll be happy to insidify the product 2194.96s - 2196.96s | you sweated blood to ship. 2196.96s - 2200.00s | That's why all this is happening right now. 2200.00s - 2202.20s | Our bosses are not different. 2202.20s - 2204.32s | They did not catch a mind virus 2204.32s - 2206.00s | that turned them into greedy assholes 2206.00s - 2208.04s | who don't care about our users' wellbeing 2208.04s - 2210.00s | or the quality of our products. 2210.00s - 2212.12s | As far as our bosses are concerned, 2213.08s - 2216.20s | the point of that business was to charge the most, 2216.20s - 2218.68s | deliver the least, and share as little as possible 2218.68s - 2221.40s | with suppliers, workers, and customers 2221.40s - 2224.96s | in order to retain money for shareholders and executives. 2224.96s - 2226.88s | They are not running charities. 2226.88s - 2229.48s | Since day one, our bosses have reported 2229.48s - 2230.64s | for work every morning, 2230.64s - 2232.32s | grabbed the giant lever behind their desk 2232.32s - 2233.72s | labeled in shitification, 2233.72s - 2235.88s | and pulled on it as hard as they could. 2235.88s - 2237.72s | But the lever didn't move much. 2237.72s - 2239.44s | It was gummed up by competition, 2239.44s - 2241.68s | by regulation, by interoperability, 2241.68s - 2243.44s | by the tech workforce. 2243.44s - 2246.20s | And as those sources of friction melted away, 2246.20s - 2249.52s | that insidification lever started moving pretty freely. 2249.52s - 2252.36s | Now that sucks, I know, but think about this for a sec. 2252.36s - 2255.88s | Our bosses, despite being wildly imperfect vessels, 2255.88s - 2258.92s | capable of rationalizing endless greed and cheating, 2258.92s - 2262.52s | nevertheless, made a series of actually great products 2262.52s - 2266.04s | and services, not because they were better people then, 2266.04s - 2268.80s | but because they were subject to discipline. 2268.80s - 2271.76s | So it follows that if we want to end the


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not running charities. 2226.88s - 2229.48s | Since day one, our bosses have reported 2229.48s - 2230.64s | for work every morning, 2230.64s - 2232.32s | grabbed the giant lever behind their desk 2232.32s - 2233.72s | labeled in shitification, 2233.72s - 2235.88s | and pulled on it as hard as they could. 2235.88s - 2237.72s | But the lever didn't move much. 2237.72s - 2239.44s | It was gummed up by competition, 2239.44s - 2241.68s | by regulation, by interoperability, 2241.68s - 2243.44s | by the tech workforce. 2243.44s - 2246.20s | And as those sources of friction melted away, 2246.20s - 2249.52s | that insidification lever started moving pretty freely. 2249.52s - 2252.36s | Now that sucks, I know, but think about this for a sec. 2252.36s - 2255.88s | Our bosses, despite being wildly imperfect vessels, 2255.88s - 2258.92s | capable of rationalizing endless greed and cheating, 2258.92s - 2262.52s | nevertheless, made a series of actually great products 2262.52s - 2266.04s | and services, not because they were better people then, 2266.04s - 2268.80s | but because they were subject to discipline. 2268.80s - 2271.76s | So it follows that if we want to end the inshitticene, 2271.76s - 2273.92s | if we want to dismantle the inshitternet, 2273.92s - 2276.12s | if we want to build a new good internet 2276.12s - 2278.04s | that our bosses can't wreck, 2278.04s - 2279.88s | we need to make sure that those constraints 2279.88s - 2282.56s | are durably installed on our new internet, 2282.56s - 2284.96s | wound around its roots and nerves. 2284.96s - 2287.44s | And we have to stand guard over those forces 2287.44s - 2290.12s | so that they can't be dismantled again. 2290.12s - 2292.88s | A new good internet is one that has the positive aspects 2292.88s - 2294.36s | of the old good internet, 2294.36s - 2297.04s | the ethic of technological self-determination, 2297.04s - 2299.92s | where users of technology and the hackers, 2299.92s - 2301.28s | the tinkerers, the startups, 2301.28s - 2303.40s | and the others who serve as their proxies 2303.40s - 2306.20s | can reconfigure the technology to make it work 2306.20s - 2307.68s | so that it does what they need it to do 2307.68s - 2309.68s | and cannot be used against them. 2309.68s - 2312.56s | But the new good internet


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inshitticene, 2271.76s - 2273.92s | if we want to dismantle the inshitternet, 2273.92s - 2276.12s | if we want to build a new good internet 2276.12s - 2278.04s | that our bosses can't wreck, 2278.04s - 2279.88s | we need to make sure that those constraints 2279.88s - 2282.56s | are durably installed on our new internet, 2282.56s - 2284.96s | wound around its roots and nerves. 2284.96s - 2287.44s | And we have to stand guard over those forces 2287.44s - 2290.12s | so that they can't be dismantled again. 2290.12s - 2292.88s | A new good internet is one that has the positive aspects 2292.88s - 2294.36s | of the old good internet, 2294.36s - 2297.04s | the ethic of technological self-determination, 2297.04s - 2299.92s | where users of technology and the hackers, 2299.92s - 2301.28s | the tinkerers, the startups, 2301.28s - 2303.40s | and the others who serve as their proxies 2303.40s - 2306.20s | can reconfigure the technology to make it work 2306.20s - 2307.68s | so that it does what they need it to do 2307.68s - 2309.68s | and cannot be used against them. 2309.68s - 2312.56s | But the new good internet has to fix the defect 2312.56s - 2314.12s | of the old good internet, 2314.12s - 2316.36s | the part that made it hard for anyone who wasn't us 2316.36s - 2317.84s | to figure out how to use it. 2317.84s - 2319.72s | And hell yeah, we can do that. 2319.72s - 2322.08s | Tech bosses swear that this is impossible. 2322.08s - 2323.76s | You can't have a conversation with a friend 2323.76s - 2325.52s | without Zuck being present. 2325.52s - 2326.52s | You can't search the web 2326.52s - 2329.08s | without letting Google scrape you down to your viscera. 2329.08s - 2331.76s | You can't have a phone that works reliably 2331.76s - 2334.08s | without Apple getting a veto over your software. 2334.08s - 2335.28s | They claim that it's nonsense 2335.28s - 2337.70s | to even ponder this proposition. 2337.70s - 2341.00s | It's like making water that's not wet, but that is bullshit. 2341.00s - 2342.96s | We can have nice things. 2342.96s - 2345.32s | We can build for the people we love 2345.32s - 2348.60s | and give them a place worthy of their time and attention. 2348.60s - 2351.52s


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has to fix the defect 2312.56s - 2314.12s | of the old good internet, 2314.12s - 2316.36s | the part that made it hard for anyone who wasn't us 2316.36s - 2317.84s | to figure out how to use it. 2317.84s - 2319.72s | And hell yeah, we can do that. 2319.72s - 2322.08s | Tech bosses swear that this is impossible. 2322.08s - 2323.76s | You can't have a conversation with a friend 2323.76s - 2325.52s | without Zuck being present. 2325.52s - 2326.52s | You can't search the web 2326.52s - 2329.08s | without letting Google scrape you down to your viscera. 2329.08s - 2331.76s | You can't have a phone that works reliably 2331.76s - 2334.08s | without Apple getting a veto over your software. 2334.08s - 2335.28s | They claim that it's nonsense 2335.28s - 2337.70s | to even ponder this proposition. 2337.70s - 2341.00s | It's like making water that's not wet, but that is bullshit. 2341.00s - 2342.96s | We can have nice things. 2342.96s - 2345.32s | We can build for the people we love 2345.32s - 2348.60s | and give them a place worthy of their time and attention. 2348.60s - 2351.52s | To do that, we have to install constraints. 2351.52s - 2354.02s | The first constraint, remember, it's competition. 2354.02s - 2356.38s | We are living through an epochal shift 2356.38s - 2358.06s | in competition policy. 2358.06s - 2362.46s | After 40 years of antitrust enforcement in an induced coma, 2362.46s - 2364.26s | a wave of antitrust vigor 2364.26s - 2366.82s | has swept through governments all over the world. 2366.82s - 2370.06s | Regulators are stepping up to ban monopolistic practices, 2370.06s - 2371.70s | to open up walled gardens, 2371.70s - 2373.78s | to block anti-competitive mergers, 2373.78s - 2375.82s | and even unwind the corrupt mergers 2375.82s - 2378.30s | that were undertaken on false pretenses. 2378.30s - 2380.74s | Now, normally this is the part in this speech 2380.74s - 2382.32s | where I'd listed all the amazing things 2382.32s - 2384.36s | that have happened over the past four years, 2384.36s - 2386.46s | the enforcement actions that block companies 2386.46s - 2388.04s | from becoming too big to care, 2388.04s - 2390.76s | and that scared companies away from even trying, 2390.76s - 2392.72s | like Wiz, which just noped out 2392.72s


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| To do that, we have to install constraints. 2351.52s - 2354.02s | The first constraint, remember, it's competition. 2354.02s - 2356.38s | We are living through an epochal shift 2356.38s - 2358.06s | in competition policy. 2358.06s - 2362.46s | After 40 years of antitrust enforcement in an induced coma, 2362.46s - 2364.26s | a wave of antitrust vigor 2364.26s - 2366.82s | has swept through governments all over the world. 2366.82s - 2370.06s | Regulators are stepping up to ban monopolistic practices, 2370.06s - 2371.70s | to open up walled gardens, 2371.70s - 2373.78s | to block anti-competitive mergers, 2373.78s - 2375.82s | and even unwind the corrupt mergers 2375.82s - 2378.30s | that were undertaken on false pretenses. 2378.30s - 2380.74s | Now, normally this is the part in this speech 2380.74s - 2382.32s | where I'd listed all the amazing things 2382.32s - 2384.36s | that have happened over the past four years, 2384.36s - 2386.46s | the enforcement actions that block companies 2386.46s - 2388.04s | from becoming too big to care, 2388.04s - 2390.76s | and that scared companies away from even trying, 2390.76s - 2392.72s | like Wiz, which just noped out 2392.72s - 2396.36s | of the largest acquisition offer in world history, 2396.36s - 2399.20s | turning down Google's $23 billion buyout 2399.20s - 2402.28s | and deciding to, you know, just be a fucking business 2402.28s - 2405.06s | that makes money by making a product that people want 2405.06s - 2407.38s | that is sold at a competitive price. 2407.38s - 2410.40s | Normally, I'd be listing out FTC rule-makings here, 2411.24s - 2413.40s | that banned non-competes worldwide, 2413.40s - 2414.92s | or the new merger guidelines 2414.92s - 2417.08s | that the FTC and the DOJ cooked up, 2417.08s - 2419.64s | which, among other things, make privacy something 2419.64s - 2421.92s | that has to be considered in mergers. 2421.92s - 2424.16s | I had a whole section of this stuff in my notes, 2424.16s - 2427.06s | an absolute victory lap, but I deleted it this week. 2427.06s - 2429.64s | Does anyone know why I deleted it this week? 2429.64s - 2430.70s | Anyone wanna guess? 2431.84s - 2435.04s | All right, this week, Judge Amit Mehta, 2435.04s - 2438.66s | ruling for the DC Circuit of these United States of America 2438.66s -


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- 2396.36s | of the largest acquisition offer in world history, 2396.36s - 2399.20s | turning down Google's $23 billion buyout 2399.20s - 2402.28s | and deciding to, you know, just be a fucking business 2402.28s - 2405.06s | that makes money by making a product that people want 2405.06s - 2407.38s | that is sold at a competitive price. 2407.38s - 2410.40s | Normally, I'd be listing out FTC rule-makings here, 2411.24s - 2413.40s | that banned non-competes worldwide, 2413.40s - 2414.92s | or the new merger guidelines 2414.92s - 2417.08s | that the FTC and the DOJ cooked up, 2417.08s - 2419.64s | which, among other things, make privacy something 2419.64s - 2421.92s | that has to be considered in mergers. 2421.92s - 2424.16s | I had a whole section of this stuff in my notes, 2424.16s - 2427.06s | an absolute victory lap, but I deleted it this week. 2427.06s - 2429.64s | Does anyone know why I deleted it this week? 2429.64s - 2430.70s | Anyone wanna guess? 2431.84s - 2435.04s | All right, this week, Judge Amit Mehta, 2435.04s - 2438.66s | ruling for the DC Circuit of these United States of America 2438.66s - 2441.82s | in the docket 20-3010, 2441.82s - 2445.90s | in a case known as United States versus Google LLC, 2445.90s - 2448.34s | found that Google is a monopolist 2448.34s - 2452.66s | and it has acted as a monopolist to maintain its monopoly, 2452.66s - 2455.70s | and ordered that Google and the DOJ propose a schedule 2455.70s - 2464.28s | for a remedy like breaking the company up. 2464.28s - 2466.64s | So yeah, that was pretty fucking epic. 2466.64s - 2468.48s | Now, this antitrust stuff is esoteric, 2468.48s - 2469.52s | and I'm not gonna shame you 2469.52s - 2471.76s | if you wanna keep a little distance on the subject. 2471.76s - 2475.12s | Nearly everyone is an antitrust normie, and that's fine. 2475.12s - 2476.16s | But if you're a normie, 2476.16s - 2478.08s | you're probably only catching little bits and pieces 2478.08s - 2479.00s | of this narrative. 2479.00s - 2480.60s | And let me tell you, the monopolists know that, 2480.60s - 2482.60s | and they are flooding the zone with shit. 2482.60s - 2486.68s | The Wall Street Journal has published 100 editorials 2486.68s - 2487.84s | condemning Lena


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2441.82s | in the docket 20-3010, 2441.82s - 2445.90s | in a case known as United States versus Google LLC, 2445.90s - 2448.34s | found that Google is a monopolist 2448.34s - 2452.66s | and it has acted as a monopolist to maintain its monopoly, 2452.66s - 2455.70s | and ordered that Google and the DOJ propose a schedule 2455.70s - 2464.28s | for a remedy like breaking the company up. 2464.28s - 2466.64s | So yeah, that was pretty fucking epic. 2466.64s - 2468.48s | Now, this antitrust stuff is esoteric, 2468.48s - 2469.52s | and I'm not gonna shame you 2469.52s - 2471.76s | if you wanna keep a little distance on the subject. 2471.76s - 2475.12s | Nearly everyone is an antitrust normie, and that's fine. 2475.12s - 2476.16s | But if you're a normie, 2476.16s - 2478.08s | you're probably only catching little bits and pieces 2478.08s - 2479.00s | of this narrative. 2479.00s - 2480.60s | And let me tell you, the monopolists know that, 2480.60s - 2482.60s | and they are flooding the zone with shit. 2482.60s - 2486.68s | The Wall Street Journal has published 100 editorials 2486.68s - 2487.84s | condemning Lena Kahn, 2487.84s - 2489.48s | the chair of the Federal Trade Commission, 2489.48s - 2492.72s | for doing nothing and getting nothing done with public funds. 2492.72s - 2495.48s | Anyone out there know who owns the Wall Street Journal? 2496.48s - 2497.56s | No? 2497.56s - 2499.12s | Rupert Murdoch. 2499.12s - 2499.96s | Rupert Murdoch. 2499.96s - 2502.88s | Do you really think Rupert Murdoch pays his editorial board 2502.88s - 2505.40s | to write 100 op-eds about someone 2505.40s - 2508.00s | who's not getting anything done? 2508.00s - 2510.64s | The reality is that in the United States, in the UK, 2510.64s - 2513.52s | in the EU, in Australia, in Canada, in China, 2513.52s - 2515.24s | in Japan, in South Korea, 2515.24s - 2518.40s | we are seeing more antitrust action over the past four years 2518.40s - 2520.32s | than over the preceding 40. 2520.32s - 2523.44s | And remember, the competition law is pretty robust. 2523.44s - 2526.12s | The problem's not the law, it's the enforcement priorities. 2526.12s - 2528.76s | Reagan put him in mothballs 40 years ago. 2528.76s - 2531.68s | But that is an elegant weapon from a


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Kahn, 2487.84s - 2489.48s | the chair of the Federal Trade Commission, 2489.48s - 2492.72s | for doing nothing and getting nothing done with public funds. 2492.72s - 2495.48s | Anyone out there know who owns the Wall Street Journal? 2496.48s - 2497.56s | No? 2497.56s - 2499.12s | Rupert Murdoch. 2499.12s - 2499.96s | Rupert Murdoch. 2499.96s - 2502.88s | Do you really think Rupert Murdoch pays his editorial board 2502.88s - 2505.40s | to write 100 op-eds about someone 2505.40s - 2508.00s | who's not getting anything done? 2508.00s - 2510.64s | The reality is that in the United States, in the UK, 2510.64s - 2513.52s | in the EU, in Australia, in Canada, in China, 2513.52s - 2515.24s | in Japan, in South Korea, 2515.24s - 2518.40s | we are seeing more antitrust action over the past four years 2518.40s - 2520.32s | than over the preceding 40. 2520.32s - 2523.44s | And remember, the competition law is pretty robust. 2523.44s - 2526.12s | The problem's not the law, it's the enforcement priorities. 2526.12s - 2528.76s | Reagan put him in mothballs 40 years ago. 2528.76s - 2531.68s | But that is an elegant weapon from a more civilized age, 2531.68s - 2534.08s | and it has found its way into the hands of people 2534.08s - 2535.80s | who sure know how to use it. 2535.80s - 2538.04s | And they are swinging for the fences. 2538.04s - 2539.96s | So next up is regulation. 2539.96s - 2542.80s | As the seemingly inescapable power of the tech giants 2542.80s - 2545.72s | is revealed as the sham that we always suspected it was, 2545.72s - 2547.64s | governments and regulators are finally gonna kill 2547.64s - 2549.96s | the one weird trick of violating the law, 2549.96s - 2552.20s | but saying it's okay because we did it with an app. 2552.20s - 2554.68s | In the EU, they've got the new digital markets app 2554.68s - 2557.24s | that requires dominant platforms to open up APIs 2557.24s - 2559.56s | so that you can move easily between services. 2559.56s - 2561.20s | And that's a very cool rule, 2561.20s - 2564.28s | but what's even cooler is how it's gonna be enforced. 2564.28s - 2567.00s | Previous EU rules, they were called regulations, 2567.00s - 2568.56s | which meant that they had to be turned


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more civilized age, 2531.68s - 2534.08s | and it has found its way into the hands of people 2534.08s - 2535.80s | who sure know how to use it. 2535.80s - 2538.04s | And they are swinging for the fences. 2538.04s - 2539.96s | So next up is regulation. 2539.96s - 2542.80s | As the seemingly inescapable power of the tech giants 2542.80s - 2545.72s | is revealed as the sham that we always suspected it was, 2545.72s - 2547.64s | governments and regulators are finally gonna kill 2547.64s - 2549.96s | the one weird trick of violating the law, 2549.96s - 2552.20s | but saying it's okay because we did it with an app. 2552.20s - 2554.68s | In the EU, they've got the new digital markets app 2554.68s - 2557.24s | that requires dominant platforms to open up APIs 2557.24s - 2559.56s | so that you can move easily between services. 2559.56s - 2561.20s | And that's a very cool rule, 2561.20s - 2564.28s | but what's even cooler is how it's gonna be enforced. 2564.28s - 2567.00s | Previous EU rules, they were called regulations, 2567.00s - 2568.56s | which meant that they had to be turned into law 2568.56s - 2570.80s | in each EU member state. 2570.80s - 2574.52s | And for big tech, that meant that all enforcement of laws 2574.52s - 2577.44s | like the General Data Privacy Protection Regulation 2577.44s - 2578.60s | started in Ireland, 2578.60s - 2580.48s | where they all pretend to be headquartered. 2580.48s - 2582.48s | And they pretend to be headquartered in Ireland 2582.48s - 2584.40s | because Ireland is a tax haven, 2584.40s - 2586.40s | and so they fly Irish flags of convenience. 2586.40s - 2588.28s | But here's the thing, 2588.28s - 2590.64s | every tax haven has to be a crime haven 2590.64s - 2592.84s | because any company that is footloose enough 2592.84s - 2594.56s | to pretend to be Irish this week 2594.56s - 2598.40s | could pretend to be Maltese or Luxembourgian 2598.40s - 2600.48s | or Cypriot next week. 2600.48s - 2604.16s | So to keep those footloose criminal enterprises happy, 2604.16s - 2606.80s | they have to stop enforcing their laws. 2606.80s - 2609.80s | That's why the GDPR is such a goddamn joke in practice 2609.80s - 2612.68s | because the only way to get these


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into law 2568.56s - 2570.80s | in each EU member state. 2570.80s - 2574.52s | And for big tech, that meant that all enforcement of laws 2574.52s - 2577.44s | like the General Data Privacy Protection Regulation 2577.44s - 2578.60s | started in Ireland, 2578.60s - 2580.48s | where they all pretend to be headquartered. 2580.48s - 2582.48s | And they pretend to be headquartered in Ireland 2582.48s - 2584.40s | because Ireland is a tax haven, 2584.40s - 2586.40s | and so they fly Irish flags of convenience. 2586.40s - 2588.28s | But here's the thing, 2588.28s - 2590.64s | every tax haven has to be a crime haven 2590.64s - 2592.84s | because any company that is footloose enough 2592.84s - 2594.56s | to pretend to be Irish this week 2594.56s - 2598.40s | could pretend to be Maltese or Luxembourgian 2598.40s - 2600.48s | or Cypriot next week. 2600.48s - 2604.16s | So to keep those footloose criminal enterprises happy, 2604.16s - 2606.80s | they have to stop enforcing their laws. 2606.80s - 2609.80s | That's why the GDPR is such a goddamn joke in practice 2609.80s - 2612.68s | because the only way to get these companies held to account 2612.68s - 2616.04s | for their GDPR policies is to go after them in Ireland 2616.72s - 2619.00s | where the Irish data commissioner barely gets out of bed. 2619.00s - 2621.52s | And when they do, they usually spend most of the day 2621.52s - 2623.16s | in their pajamas eating breakfast cereal 2623.16s - 2624.52s | in front of the television. 2625.56s - 2627.12s | Now, all of this is hardly a secret. 2627.12s - 2629.64s | The European Commission knows that it's going on. 2629.64s - 2631.68s | So with the DMA, the commission starts 2631.68s - 2635.08s | all of the enforcement in the federal courts, 2635.08s - 2638.24s | which have no way in which they are beholden 2638.24s - 2640.68s | to these big tech companies. 2640.68s - 2645.00s | In other words, we violate privacy, excuse me, 2645.00s - 2647.76s | we violate privacy law that work, 2647.76s - 2649.56s | but it's okay because we did it with an app 2649.56s - 2650.72s | that worked for so many years. 2650.72s - 2652.44s | It's now a dead letter. 2652.44s - 2655.56s | And here in the US,


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companies held to account 2612.68s - 2616.04s | for their GDPR policies is to go after them in Ireland 2616.72s - 2619.00s | where the Irish data commissioner barely gets out of bed. 2619.00s - 2621.52s | And when they do, they usually spend most of the day 2621.52s - 2623.16s | in their pajamas eating breakfast cereal 2623.16s - 2624.52s | in front of the television. 2625.56s - 2627.12s | Now, all of this is hardly a secret. 2627.12s - 2629.64s | The European Commission knows that it's going on. 2629.64s - 2631.68s | So with the DMA, the commission starts 2631.68s - 2635.08s | all of the enforcement in the federal courts, 2635.08s - 2638.24s | which have no way in which they are beholden 2638.24s - 2640.68s | to these big tech companies. 2640.68s - 2645.00s | In other words, we violate privacy, excuse me, 2645.00s - 2647.76s | we violate privacy law that work, 2647.76s - 2649.56s | but it's okay because we did it with an app 2649.56s - 2650.72s | that worked for so many years. 2650.72s - 2652.44s | It's now a dead letter. 2652.44s - 2655.56s | And here in the US, the dam is finally breaking 2655.56s - 2658.04s | on getting a federal privacy law for us. 2658.04s - 2659.48s | It's been a minute. 2659.48s - 2661.04s | And the thing is there are a lot of people 2661.04s - 2664.96s | who are very angry about how poor privacy law is in America, 2664.96s - 2666.40s | not because they're worried about privacy, 2666.40s - 2668.24s | but because they're worried about other stuff. 2668.24s - 2670.32s | Maybe Grampy was on Facebook 2670.32s - 2672.28s | and you think that's how it became a QAnon, 2672.28s - 2675.28s | or you think maybe Insta made your teen anorexic, 2675.28s - 2677.56s | or you're worried that cops rolled up all the demonstrators 2677.56s - 2679.48s | at that Black Lives Matter demonstration 2679.48s - 2681.04s | using Google location data, 2681.04s - 2682.00s | or you're worried that they did it 2682.00s - 2683.72s | to the January 6th rioters, 2683.72s - 2685.64s | or that you're worried that red state attorneys general 2685.64s - 2689.24s | follow teenagers across state lines into abortion clinics, 2689.24s - 2690.44s | or you're worried that black people 2690.44s -


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the dam is finally breaking 2655.56s - 2658.04s | on getting a federal privacy law for us. 2658.04s - 2659.48s | It's been a minute. 2659.48s - 2661.04s | And the thing is there are a lot of people 2661.04s - 2664.96s | who are very angry about how poor privacy law is in America, 2664.96s - 2666.40s | not because they're worried about privacy, 2666.40s - 2668.24s | but because they're worried about other stuff. 2668.24s - 2670.32s | Maybe Grampy was on Facebook 2670.32s - 2672.28s | and you think that's how it became a QAnon, 2672.28s - 2675.28s | or you think maybe Insta made your teen anorexic, 2675.28s - 2677.56s | or you're worried that cops rolled up all the demonstrators 2677.56s - 2679.48s | at that Black Lives Matter demonstration 2679.48s - 2681.04s | using Google location data, 2681.04s - 2682.00s | or you're worried that they did it 2682.00s - 2683.72s | to the January 6th rioters, 2683.72s - 2685.64s | or that you're worried that red state attorneys general 2685.64s - 2689.24s | follow teenagers across state lines into abortion clinics, 2689.24s - 2690.44s | or you're worried that black people 2690.44s - 2691.56s | are being discriminated against 2691.56s - 2693.48s | in lending and job applications, 2693.48s - 2696.84s | or that someone made AI deepfake porn of you. 2696.84s - 2699.44s | A federal privacy law with a private right of action 2699.44s - 2701.92s | would do something about all of those problems. 2701.92s - 2704.72s | That makes a very big coalition for privacy law, 2704.72s - 2707.76s | which is why we're seeing a procession of imperfect, 2707.76s - 2710.04s | but steadily improving privacy laws 2710.04s - 2711.80s | working their way through Congress. 2711.80s - 2714.20s | So I work for the Electronic Frontier Foundation. 2714.20s - 2716.88s | If you sign up for our list at EFF.org, 2716.88s - 2719.12s | we're gonna send you emails when those laws come up, 2719.12s - 2721.60s | and you can call up your Congress jerk or your senator, 2721.60s - 2723.12s | and you can talk to them about it. 2723.12s - 2725.28s | You can make an appointment to drop by their offices 2725.28s - 2726.52s | when they're in their home district 2726.52s - 2728.96s | and explain to them that you're not just


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2691.56s | are being discriminated against 2691.56s - 2693.48s | in lending and job applications, 2693.48s - 2696.84s | or that someone made AI deepfake porn of you. 2696.84s - 2699.44s | A federal privacy law with a private right of action 2699.44s - 2701.92s | would do something about all of those problems. 2701.92s - 2704.72s | That makes a very big coalition for privacy law, 2704.72s - 2707.76s | which is why we're seeing a procession of imperfect, 2707.76s - 2710.04s | but steadily improving privacy laws 2710.04s - 2711.80s | working their way through Congress. 2711.80s - 2714.20s | So I work for the Electronic Frontier Foundation. 2714.20s - 2716.88s | If you sign up for our list at EFF.org, 2716.88s - 2719.12s | we're gonna send you emails when those laws come up, 2719.12s - 2721.60s | and you can call up your Congress jerk or your senator, 2721.60s - 2723.12s | and you can talk to them about it. 2723.12s - 2725.28s | You can make an appointment to drop by their offices 2725.28s - 2726.52s | when they're in their home district 2726.52s - 2728.96s | and explain to them that you're not just a registered voter 2728.96s - 2730.00s | from their districts, 2730.00s - 2731.24s | that you're the kind of tech person 2731.56s - 2732.52s | who goes to DEF CON, 2732.52s - 2734.32s | and then you can explain the bill to them. 2734.32s - 2736.40s | And that stuff makes a difference. 2736.40s - 2738.16s | So how about self-help? 2738.16s - 2741.56s | How are we doing on making interoperability legal again? 2741.56s - 2742.40s | I'm nearly done. 2743.32s - 2744.92s | Two minutes, sorry. 2744.92s - 2746.72s | My mic stopped working for a minute. 2746.72s - 2751.87s | How are we doing on making, 2751.87s - 2753.03s | I'm seriously almost done. 2753.03s - 2755.15s | Stop clapping so I can finish. 2755.15s - 2757.51s | How are we doing on making interoperability legal again? 2757.51s - 2760.27s | Well, we got these state right-to-repair bills 2760.27s - 2761.75s | that ban parts pairing, 2761.79s - 2763.71s | that ban using DRM for parts. 2764.55s - 2767.03s | These bills are pushed by a fantastic group 2767.03s - 2770.71s | of organizations called the Repair Coalition at repair.org, 2770.71s - 2772.51s | and they'll email


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a registered voter 2728.96s - 2730.00s | from their districts, 2730.00s - 2731.24s | that you're the kind of tech person 2731.56s - 2732.52s | who goes to DEF CON, 2732.52s - 2734.32s | and then you can explain the bill to them. 2734.32s - 2736.40s | And that stuff makes a difference. 2736.40s - 2738.16s | So how about self-help? 2738.16s - 2741.56s | How are we doing on making interoperability legal again? 2741.56s - 2742.40s | I'm nearly done. 2743.32s - 2744.92s | Two minutes, sorry. 2744.92s - 2746.72s | My mic stopped working for a minute. 2746.72s - 2751.87s | How are we doing on making, 2751.87s - 2753.03s | I'm seriously almost done. 2753.03s - 2755.15s | Stop clapping so I can finish. 2755.15s - 2757.51s | How are we doing on making interoperability legal again? 2757.51s - 2760.27s | Well, we got these state right-to-repair bills 2760.27s - 2761.75s | that ban parts pairing, 2761.79s - 2763.71s | that ban using DRM for parts. 2764.55s - 2767.03s | These bills are pushed by a fantastic group 2767.03s - 2770.71s | of organizations called the Repair Coalition at repair.org, 2770.71s - 2772.51s | and they'll email you when one of these bills 2772.51s - 2773.87s | are going through your state house, 2773.87s - 2775.39s | and you can meet with your state reps 2775.39s - 2776.75s | and explain to the JV squad 2776.75s - 2778.75s | what you just explained to your federal reps. 2778.75s - 2781.75s | And the prime mover behind repair.org is iFixit, 2781.75s - 2785.11s | and iFixit's founder, Kyle Wiens, is here at DEF CON. 2785.11s - 2786.79s | So when you see him, shake his hand, 2786.79s - 2787.63s | thank him for his service, 2787.63s - 2790.67s | but tell him you've signed up for the mailing list as well. 2790.67s - 2792.67s | Now onto that last workforce, 2792.67s - 2794.27s | and my last page, I promise. 2795.43s - 2798.55s | The thing that used to stop tech bosses from going bad, 2798.55s - 2800.43s | and that's you, the tech workforce. 2800.43s - 2801.95s | For years, your bosses tricked you 2801.95s - 2803.95s | into thinking you were founders and waiting, 2803.95s - 2805.71s | temporarily embarrassed entrepreneurs, 2805.71s - 2808.67s | momentarily drawing a salary, not workers. 2808.67s - 2810.51s | Your


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you when one of these bills 2772.51s - 2773.87s | are going through your state house, 2773.87s - 2775.39s | and you can meet with your state reps 2775.39s - 2776.75s | and explain to the JV squad 2776.75s - 2778.75s | what you just explained to your federal reps. 2778.75s - 2781.75s | And the prime mover behind repair.org is iFixit, 2781.75s - 2785.11s | and iFixit's founder, Kyle Wiens, is here at DEF CON. 2785.11s - 2786.79s | So when you see him, shake his hand, 2786.79s - 2787.63s | thank him for his service, 2787.63s - 2790.67s | but tell him you've signed up for the mailing list as well. 2790.67s - 2792.67s | Now onto that last workforce, 2792.67s - 2794.27s | and my last page, I promise. 2795.43s - 2798.55s | The thing that used to stop tech bosses from going bad, 2798.55s - 2800.43s | and that's you, the tech workforce. 2800.43s - 2801.95s | For years, your bosses tricked you 2801.95s - 2803.95s | into thinking you were founders and waiting, 2803.95s - 2805.71s | temporarily embarrassed entrepreneurs, 2805.71s - 2808.67s | momentarily drawing a salary, not workers. 2808.67s - 2810.51s | Your power came from intrinsic virtue, 2810.51s - 2813.99s | not like those lazy slobs in their unions. 2813.99s - 2816.23s | Now that was a trick, and you got scammed. 2816.23s - 2818.15s | The power you had came from scarcity, 2818.15s - 2819.59s | so when scarcity ended, 2820.95s - 2823.59s | when the industry started ringing in six-figure layoffs, 2823.59s - 2825.15s | your power went away. 2825.15s - 2828.03s | The only durable source of power for tech workers 2828.03s - 2831.19s | is as workers in unions. 2831.19s - 2832.35s | Think about Amazon. 2832.35s - 2836.39s | I got to finish, stop clapping. 2837.39s - 2838.35s | Think about Amazon. 2838.35s - 2840.59s | Warehouse workers have to piss in bottles 2840.59s - 2843.15s | and have the highest rate of on-the-job injuries 2843.15s - 2845.75s | of any comparable company in the industry, 2845.75s - 2848.15s | whereas Amazon coders get to show up for work 2848.15s - 2850.87s | with facial piercings, green mohawks, and black t-shirts 2850.87s - 2853.07s | that say things their bosses don't understand. 2853.07s - 2855.35s | They can piss whenever they want to. 2855.35s - 2858.31s |


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power came from intrinsic virtue, 2810.51s - 2813.99s | not like those lazy slobs in their unions. 2813.99s - 2816.23s | Now that was a trick, and you got scammed. 2816.23s - 2818.15s | The power you had came from scarcity, 2818.15s - 2819.59s | so when scarcity ended, 2820.95s - 2823.59s | when the industry started ringing in six-figure layoffs, 2823.59s - 2825.15s | your power went away. 2825.15s - 2828.03s | The only durable source of power for tech workers 2828.03s - 2831.19s | is as workers in unions. 2831.19s - 2832.35s | Think about Amazon. 2832.35s - 2836.39s | I got to finish, stop clapping. 2837.39s - 2838.35s | Think about Amazon. 2838.35s - 2840.59s | Warehouse workers have to piss in bottles 2840.59s - 2843.15s | and have the highest rate of on-the-job injuries 2843.15s - 2845.75s | of any comparable company in the industry, 2845.75s - 2848.15s | whereas Amazon coders get to show up for work 2848.15s - 2850.87s | with facial piercings, green mohawks, and black t-shirts 2850.87s - 2853.07s | that say things their bosses don't understand. 2853.07s - 2855.35s | They can piss whenever they want to. 2855.35s - 2858.31s | That's not because Jeff Bezos loves tech workers. 2858.31s - 2860.19s | It's because they're scared you'll quit, 2860.19s - 2862.19s | and they won't be able to replace you. 2862.19s - 2863.19s | Another William Gibson quote, 2863.19s - 2865.83s | the future is here, it's just not evenly distributed. 2865.83s - 2867.07s | You know who lives in the future? 2867.07s - 2868.71s | Amazon warehouse workers. 2868.71s - 2870.91s | They are living in your future. 2870.91s - 2873.59s | Drivers whose eyeballs are monitored by AI cameras 2873.59s - 2876.03s | that do phrenology on their faces 2876.03s - 2878.27s | to figure out when to dock their pay, 2878.27s - 2880.51s | and warehouse workers whose bodies are ruined 2880.51s - 2882.15s | in a matter of months. 2882.15s - 2884.63s | As tech bosses beef up this reserve army 2884.63s - 2887.23s | of unemployed skilled tech workers, 2887.23s - 2889.03s | those tech workers, you folks, 2889.03s - 2891.35s | will arrive at the same future as them. 2891.35s - 2893.19s | Look, I know you spent your careers 2893.19s - 2895.75s | explaining in words so small your boss could understand them


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That's not because Jeff Bezos loves tech workers. 2858.31s - 2860.19s | It's because they're scared you'll quit, 2860.19s - 2862.19s | and they won't be able to replace you. 2862.19s - 2863.19s | Another William Gibson quote, 2863.19s - 2865.83s | the future is here, it's just not evenly distributed. 2865.83s - 2867.07s | You know who lives in the future? 2867.07s - 2868.71s | Amazon warehouse workers. 2868.71s - 2870.91s | They are living in your future. 2870.91s - 2873.59s | Drivers whose eyeballs are monitored by AI cameras 2873.59s - 2876.03s | that do phrenology on their faces 2876.03s - 2878.27s | to figure out when to dock their pay, 2878.27s - 2880.51s | and warehouse workers whose bodies are ruined 2880.51s - 2882.15s | in a matter of months. 2882.15s - 2884.63s | As tech bosses beef up this reserve army 2884.63s - 2887.23s | of unemployed skilled tech workers, 2887.23s - 2889.03s | those tech workers, you folks, 2889.03s - 2891.35s | will arrive at the same future as them. 2891.35s - 2893.19s | Look, I know you spent your careers 2893.19s - 2895.75s | explaining in words so small your boss could understand them 2895.75s - 2898.71s | that you refused to insidify your company's products, 2898.71s - 2900.59s | and I thank you for your service, 2900.59s - 2902.83s | but if you want to go on fighting for the user, 2902.83s - 2904.63s | you need power that's better than scarcity. 2904.63s - 2906.47s | You need a union. 2906.47s - 2907.59s | Want to learn how? 2907.59s - 2909.99s | Check out the Tech Workers Coalition and Tech Solidarity 2909.99s - 2911.55s | and get organized. 2911.55s - 2914.55s | Insidification is not here because our bosses changed. 2914.55s - 2915.71s | They were always that guy. 2915.71s - 2917.43s | They were always yanking the lever. 2917.43s - 2919.19s | What changed was the environment, 2919.19s - 2921.99s | everything that kept the insidification switch from moving, 2921.99s - 2923.95s | and that is good news because it means 2923.95s - 2926.71s | that we can have good products with imperfect people. 2926.71s - 2929.27s | A new good internet is in our grasp, 2929.27s - 2931.91s | an internet with the technological self-determination 2931.91s - 2934.71s | of the old good internet and the grease skid simplicity 2934.71s -


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2895.75s - 2898.71s | that you refused to insidify your company's products, 2898.71s - 2900.59s | and I thank you for your service, 2900.59s - 2902.83s | but if you want to go on fighting for the user, 2902.83s - 2904.63s | you need power that's better than scarcity. 2904.63s - 2906.47s | You need a union. 2906.47s - 2907.59s | Want to learn how? 2907.59s - 2909.99s | Check out the Tech Workers Coalition and Tech Solidarity 2909.99s - 2911.55s | and get organized. 2911.55s - 2914.55s | Insidification is not here because our bosses changed. 2914.55s - 2915.71s | They were always that guy. 2915.71s - 2917.43s | They were always yanking the lever. 2917.43s - 2919.19s | What changed was the environment, 2919.19s - 2921.99s | everything that kept the insidification switch from moving, 2921.99s - 2923.95s | and that is good news because it means 2923.95s - 2926.71s | that we can have good products with imperfect people. 2926.71s - 2929.27s | A new good internet is in our grasp, 2929.27s - 2931.91s | an internet with the technological self-determination 2931.91s - 2934.71s | of the old good internet and the grease skid simplicity 2934.71s - 2937.67s | of Web 2.0 that let normie friends get in on the fun. 2937.67s - 2939.31s | Tech bosses want you to think 2939.31s - 2942.15s | that UX and insidification can't be separated, 2942.15s - 2944.15s | and that is self-serving bullshit. 2944.15s - 2946.59s | We know it because we built the old good internet, 2946.59s - 2948.51s | and we've been fighting a rearguard action 2948.51s - 2950.35s | to preserve it over the past two decades, 2950.35s - 2953.79s | and it's time to stop playing defense and go on the offense 2953.79s - 2956.47s | to restore competition, to restore regulation, 2956.47s - 2958.75s | interoperability, and tech worker power 2958.75s - 2960.95s | so that we can create a new good internet 2960.95s - 2962.83s | that we're gonna need to fight fascism, 2962.83s - 2965.31s | the climate emergency, and genocide, 2965.31s - 2968.19s | to build a digital nervous system for the 21st century 2968.19s - 2970.27s | in which our children will thrive and prosper. 2970.27s - 2976.26s | Thank you. 2976.26s - 2982.34s | All right, I'm going to the signing area. 2982.34s - 2984.74s | It's outside the


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2937.67s | of Web 2.0 that let normie friends get in on the fun. 2937.67s - 2939.31s | Tech bosses want you to think 2939.31s - 2942.15s | that UX and insidification can't be separated, 2942.15s - 2944.15s | and that is self-serving bullshit. 2944.15s - 2946.59s | We know it because we built the old good internet, 2946.59s - 2948.51s | and we've been fighting a rearguard action 2948.51s - 2950.35s | to preserve it over the past two decades, 2950.35s - 2953.79s | and it's time to stop playing defense and go on the offense 2953.79s - 2956.47s | to restore competition, to restore regulation, 2956.47s - 2958.75s | interoperability, and tech worker power 2958.75s - 2960.95s | so that we can create a new good internet 2960.95s - 2962.83s | that we're gonna need to fight fascism, 2962.83s - 2965.31s | the climate emergency, and genocide, 2965.31s - 2968.19s | to build a digital nervous system for the 21st century 2968.19s - 2970.27s | in which our children will thrive and prosper. 2970.27s - 2976.26s | Thank you. 2976.26s - 2982.34s | All right, I'm going to the signing area. 2982.34s - 2984.74s | It's outside the hopsters' room. 2984.74s - 2985.74s | Come and say hello.


