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Hansard

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Honourable senators, I move the adoption of this report.
Honorables senateurs, je propose l'adoption de ce rapport.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_75
Motion agreed to and report adopted.
(La motion est adoptee, et le rapport est adopte.)
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_76
2. the then Deputy Minister of National Defence;
2) le sous-ministre de la Defense nationale a l'epoque;
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_77
3. the then Acting Chief of Staff of the Minister of National Defence;
3) le chef interimaire d'etat-major de la Defense nationale a l'epoque;
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_78
4. the then special advisor to the Minister of National Defence (M. Campbell);
4) le conseiller special du ministre de la Defense nationale a l'epoque (M. Campbell);
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_79
5. the then special advisor to the Minister of National Defence (J.
5) le conseiller special du ministre de la Defense nationale a l'epoque (J.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_80
6. the persons occupying the position of Judge Advocate General during the relevant period;
6) les personnes occupant le poste de juge-avocat general durant la periode en question;
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_81
7. the then Deputy Judge Advocate General (litigation); and
7) le juge-avocat general adjoint (litiges) a l'epoque; et
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_82
8. the then Chief of Defence Staff and Deputy Chief of Defence Staff.
8) le chef d'etat-major de la defense a l'epoque.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_83
"9. the present Minister of National Defence.".
9) l'actuel ministre de la Defense nationale..
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_84
At that time, certain members of the special committee refused to continue the inquiry.
Certains membres du comite special ont refuse a ce moment de continuer l'enquete.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_85
Such is the case with the Somalia incident.
C'est le cas du malheureux incident de la Somalie.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_86
They are only now starting to get back on their feet.
Ils commencent a peine a s'en remettre.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_87
Several extensions were granted to the inquiry.
On a deja plusieurs fois prolonge l'enquete.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_88
No one condones the terrible events that happened in Somalia.
Personne ne cherche a excuser ce qui s'est passe en Somalie.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_89
We were all saddened by their impact.
Nous avons tous ete choques des repercussions que cette situation a entrainees.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_90
Honourable senators, the time has come to move on.
Honorables senateurs, le moment est venu de poursuivre notre chemin.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_91
We have learned the lessons of Somalia.
Les lecons de la Somalie sont apprises.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_92
It is time to stop damning the military and their families.
Cessons d'accabler les membres des Forces armees canadiennes et leurs proches.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_93
It is time to call a halt to suspicions, unfair accusations, insinuations and hostilities.
Mettons le hola aux soupcons, aux accusations injustes, aux insinuations et a l'hostilite.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_94
The planned amendments will mean greater honesty, fairness and transparency within the system.
Les modifications prevues accroitront l'integrite, l'equite et la transparence au sein du systeme.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_95
Let us not raise that red flag again.
Abstenons-nous donc de lever de nouveau le drapeau rouge.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_96
On motion of Senator DeWare, debate adjourned.
(Sur la motion du senateur DeWare, le debat est ajourne.)
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_97
For the rest of you, the minister said, "the file is now closed."
Pour le reste d'entre vous, a ajoute le ministre, le dossier est clos.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_98
In other words: "See you in court if you feel badly done by."
Autrement dit: Si vous vous sentez leses, poursuivez-nous.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_99
Honourable senators, a file on human tragedy is never closed.
Honorables senateurs, un dossier portant sur une tragedie humaine n'est jamais clos.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_100
I will summarize them as follows:
Je resume ses constatations comme suit:
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_101
If he had added that proviso, he would have been on firm ground.
S'il avait dit cela, il n'aurait rien a se reprocher.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_102
Perhaps, legally, he is on firmer ground.
Legalement, ses preuves sont peut-etre mieux fondees.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_103
I should like to return to the Krever report, which states in part:
Je reviens au rapport Krever, qui affirme notamment:
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_104
However uncertain the results may be, the costs of litigation are unreasonably high.
Peu importe l'incertitude du resultat, le cout des litiges est deraisonnable.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_105
They pose a significant problem in respect of access and the affordability of civil justice."
L'accessibilite de la justice civile et la capacite de payer posent un grave probleme.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_106
The evidence points out how we ignored the cautions taken in the United States.
Tout indique que nous avons neglige les precautions prises aux Etats-Unis.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_107
Senator Graham, the Leader of the Government in the Senate, replied on the same day:
Le senateur Graham, le leader du gouvernement au Senat, a repondu le meme jour:
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_108
No one could help but be moved by the plight of those affected, the victims.
Personne ne pouvait s'empecher d'etre emu par le sort des victimes.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_109
We accept those conclusions without reservation.
Nous acceptons ces conclusions sans reserves.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_110
We accept them in their entirety.
Nous les acceptons dans leur integralite.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_111
The victims and their families are suffering because of official negligence.
Les victimes et leurs familles souffrent en raison de la negligence du gouvernement.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_112
Canadians overwhelmingly support them.
La grande majorite des Canadiens leur accordent leur soutien.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_113
Hon. Celine Hervieux-Payette :
L'honorable Celine Hervieux-Payette :
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_114
Some people have apparently died as a result.
Par consequence, certaines personnes seraient decedees.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_115
I could name many other illnesses.
Je pourrais enumerer de nombreuses autres maladies.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_116
Should this system apply in all sectors?
Ce systeme devrait-il s'appliquer dans tous les secteurs?
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_117
As parliamentarians debating this important issue, it is easy to hand out money.
Comme parlementaires qui discutons de cette question importante, il est facile de distribuer l'argent.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_118
We are well aware that this money comes from Canadian taxpayers.
On sait fort bien que cet argent vient des contribuables canadiens.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_119
We must act responsibly.
On doit agir de facon responsable.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_120
We are all saddened by this situation.
Nous sommes tous desoles de cette question.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_121
In this case, it was done with knowledge.
Dans ce cas-ci, les interesses ont agi en connaissance de cause.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_122
It was known that the blood was tainted.
On savait que le sang etait contamine.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_123
That is the difference.
C'est la que reside la difference.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_124
Hon. Nicholas W. Taylor :
L'honorable Nicholas W. Taylor :
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_125
Does the honourable senator agree with that?
Mon honorable collegue est-il d'accord la-dessus?
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_126
I quoted from that recommendation, and I can quote it again.
J'ai cite cette recommandation et je peux le faire a nouveau.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_127
They are boasting about taking the lead.
Les ministeriels s'en enorgueillissent.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_128
The federal government drew them into this.
C'est le gouvernement federal qui les a amenes a faire cela.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_129
Hon. Jerahmiel S. Grafstein :
L'honorable Jerahmiel S. Grafstein :
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_130
Honourable senators, this is a complex subject.
Honorables senateurs, c'est une question complexe.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_131
The senator mentioned a universal program.
Le senateur mentionne un programme universel.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_132
How many people are we talking about?
De combien de victimes est-il question?
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_133
When should the payment be made?
A quel moment le paiement devrait-il etre effectue?
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_134
How should the payment be divided between the federal and the provincial governments?
Quelles sont les parts respectives que devraient payer les gouvernements federal et provinciaux?
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_135
Perhaps the honourable senator could cite a precedent.
Le senateur voudra peut-etre nous montrer un precedent.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_136
If there is such a precedent, what would be the consequence of that?
Si un tel precedent existe, quelles en seront les consequences?
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_137
I have asked a series of questions.
J'ai pose une serie de questions.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_138
Perhaps the honourable senator cannot respond to them today.
Le senateur ne pourra peut-etre pas y repondre aujourd'hui.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_139
However, when he rereads them, he may be able to respond at a later date.
Toutefois, il pourra les relire et y repondre plus tard.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_140
This is of concern to all of us.
Cela nous interesse tous.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_141
Are we creating a precedent with this?
Sommes-nous en train de creer un precedent?
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_142
Surely to God we are not.
Bon sang, certes pas.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_143
Surely to God we will learn from this.
Nous allons surement en tirer des lecons.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_144
This is the tragedy.
C'est cela la tragedie.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_145
The government knew the blood had not been tested.
Les gouvernements savaient que le sang n'avait pas ete teste.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_146
They refused to implement testing procedures which were already available.
Ils avaient refuse de mettre en oeuvre des tests qui etaient deja disponibles.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_147
Surely to God this will not happen again.
Bon sang, cela ne se reproduira certes plus.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_148
Hon. Noel A. Kinsella (Acting Deputy Leader of the Opposition) :
L'honorable Noel A. Kinsella (chef adjoint suppleant de l'opposition):
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_149
Honourable senators, "The file is closed."
Honorables senateurs, le dossier est clos.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_150
Honourable senators, governance cannot be allowed to mean "managing the file."
Honorables senateurs, gouverner, ce n'est pas gerer un dossier.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_151
The role of government is to serve the people.
Le role du gouvernement, c'est de servir la population.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_152
The case was not closed.
Le dossier n'etait pas clos.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_153
The Premier of Ontario continues:
Le premier ministre de l'Ontario continue:
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_154
Details aside, the issue is not one of dollars but one of compassion and humanity.
La question n'en est pas une d'argent, mais de compassion et d'humanite.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_155
I urge the federal government to make the same commitment.
J'exhorte le gouvernement federal a prendre le meme engagement.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_156
This will allow officials to work out the details of assistance in a timely manner.
Cela permettra aux fonctionnaires de regler les details concernant le versement rapide des indemnisations.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_157
Honourable senators, I endorse the recommendations of the Krever commission.
Honorables senateurs, j'appuie les recommandations de la commission Krever.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_158
They will meet representatives of the people who have been affected.
Les ministres rencontreront les representants des gens touches par cette question.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_159
They will follow the instructions of the House of Commons.
Ils suivront les instructions de la Chambre des communes.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_160
I see my honourable colleague nodding in acquiescence.
Je vois mon collegue qui acquiesce.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_161
Tainted by the Mulroney system.
Contamine sous le regime Mulroney.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_162
Let me complete my question, please.
Laissez-moi, s'il vous plait, terminer ma question.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_163
The Hon. the Acting Speaker :
Son Honneur le President suppleant :
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_164
That is such a narrow-minded approach.
Cette facon de penser temoigne d'une telle etroitesse d'esprit!
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_165
I think he was fair in his comments.
Je crois qu'il a ete juste.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_166
We need this kind of exchange more often in this chamber.
Nous avons besoin de ce genre d'echanges plus souvent dans cette Chambre.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_167
We are engaged in a serious debate on a matter of national tragedy.
Nous sommes engages dans un debat important sur une question qui constitue une tragedie nationale.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_168
Honourable senators, we shall vigorously participate in this debate.
Honorables senateurs, nous devons participer de facon dynamique a ce debat.
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_169
On motion of Senator Carstairs, debate adjourned.
(Sur la motion du senateur Carstairs, le debat est ajourne.)
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_170
The Senate adjourned until Tuesday, May 12, 1998, at 2 p.m.
(Le Senat s'ajourne au mardi 12 mai 1998, a 14 heures.)
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-05-07.059_171
Debates of the Senate (Hansard)
Debats du Senat (hansard)
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-04-02.053_1
1st Session, 36th Parliament,
1ere Session, 36e Legislature,
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-04-02.053_2
Volume 137, Issue 53
Volume 137, Numero 53
hansard.36.1.senate.debates.1998-04-02.053_3