Preacher, what please is the basis of a belief in the false doctrine of "trinity"?
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Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Scriptures alone quite plainly demonstrate that Jesus and the Almighty are separate distinct persons, and the Almighty created Jesus as His firstborn son.\n\n(Colossians 1:15) the firstborn of all creation\n\n(Mark 10:18) Jesus said to him: 'Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.\n\n(Revelation 3:14) the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God\n\n(Philippians 2:5-6) Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God's form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God\n\n(John 8:42) Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth\n\n(John 12:49) I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak\n\n(John 14:28) I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am\n\n(1 Corinthians 15:28) But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him\n\n(Matthew 20:23) this sitting down at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father\n\n(1 Corinthians 11:3) I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; ...in turn the head of the Christ is God\n\n(John 20:17) I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.\n\n(Deuteronomy 6:4) Jehovah our God is one Jehovah\n\n(1 Corinthians 8:4-6) There is no God but one. For even though there are those who are called "gods," whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many "gods" and many "lords," there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him\n\nLearn more!\nhttp://watchtower.org/library/ti/index.htm
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I don't believe in the man made doctrine's of the Trinity. There's no Bible basis for the Trinity.
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The word "trinity" is a term used to denote the Christian doctrine that God exists as a unity of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  Each of the persons is distinct from the other, yet identical in essence.  In other words, each is fully divine in nature, but each is not the totality of the Trinity.  Each has a will, loves, and says "I", and "You" when speaking.  The Father is not the same person as the Son who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit who is not the same person as the Father.  Each is divine, yet there are not three gods, but one God.  There are three individual subsistences, or persons.  The word "subsistence" means something that has a real existence. The word "person" denotes individuality and self awareness.  The Trinity is three of these, though the latter term has become the dominant one used to describe the individual aspects of God known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.\n       Included in the doctrine of the Trinity is a strict monotheism which is the teaching that there exists in all the universe a single being known as God who is self-existent and unchangeable (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8).  Therefore, it is important to note that the doctrine of the trinity is not polytheistic as some of its critics proclaim.  Trinitarianism is monotheistic by definition and those who claim it is polytheistic demonstrate a lack of understanding of what it really is.\n\nThe Trinity \nGod is three persons \nEach person is divine \nThere is only one God. \n      Many theologians admit that the term "person" is not a perfect word to describe the three individual aspects/foci found in God.   When we normally use the word person, we understand it to mean physical individuals who exist as separate beings from other individuals.  But in God there are not three entities, nor three beings.  God, is a trinity of persons consisting of one substance and one essence.  God is numerically one. Yet, within the single divine essence are three individual subsistences that we call persons.\n\nEach of the three persons is completely divine in nature though each is not the totality of the Godhead. \nEach of the three persons is not the other two persons. \nEach of the three persons is related to the other two, but are distinct from them. \n     The word "trinity" is not found in the Bible. But this does not mean that the concept is not taught there. The word "bible" is not found in the Bible either, but we use it anyway. Likewise, the words "omniscience," which means "all knowing," "omnipotence," which means "all powerful," and "omnipresence," which means "present everywhere," are not found in the Bible either. But we use these words to describe the attributes of God.  So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument.\n\nIs there subordination in the Trinity?\n\n      There is, apparently, a subordination within the Trinity in regard to order but not substance or essence.  We can see that the Father is first, the Son is second, and the Holy Spirit is third. The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16). The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 5:26).  The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10).  The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26).  The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16).\n     This subordination of order does not mean that each of the members of the Godhead are not equal or divine.  For example, we see that the Father sent the Son.  But this does not mean that the Son is not equal to the Father in essence and divine nature.  A wife is to be subject to her husband but this does not negate her humanity, essence, or equality.  By further analogy, a king and his servant both share human nature. Yet, the king sends th
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I agree with you completely. I am a christian, but I do not believe in the trinity theory. and there are ALLOT of references like this one that points toward the fact that they are not the same. A few of them are: after Jesus got baptized, God said to him, "this is my beloved son, in whom I am well pleased." would he talk to himself? also when the people asked Jesus to teach them how to pray, Jesus taught them to pray to God, not to himself. If he was God why wouldn't he have the people pray to him? yet another, Jesus on the cross said "My God, why have you forsaken me?" would God not only talk to himself, but also forsake himself? A final one... the bible says that the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming the holy spirit (Mark 3:29). If they were all the same, then blaspheming any of them would be unforgivable. They are very separate beings, and not the same.
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NOT TRUE! I am a Preacher and I think it is just a lie! To cast doubt on the BIBLE!
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Let's get one thing straight. The verses you quoted were statements made by Jesus; not Almighty God. The trinity doctrine that is widely taught in Christendom is really throwing you off. When Jesus is making these statements he's humbly acknowledging that in fact the "father" is greater than him. This is further reiterated in John 14:28. Why would almighty God who knows all things would not know for instance the day of Judgment?_Psalms 83:18 Notice that the scripture that you quoted (Mark 13:2) says in the 2nd part of the verse:"neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the "Father." Again this stresses that Jesus or the Son of God doesn't know the day, but his FATHER would know. Clearly this shows that Jehovah God and Jesus are two different people and that this shows a distinction between them. If Jesus and God were the same wouldn't Jesus know the day of Judgement too?\nThe many other statements that Jesus makes further show that he is not equal to his father._Philippians 2:6: "who, although he was existing in God's form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God."_1 Corinthians 11:3, John 20:17. Similiarly, no son is equal to his father or the same as him. Sure they may look alike, talk, or act alike but you recognize them as two separate entities not combined in one. In John 5:19 Jesus makes it clear that he doesn't do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. Also whatever that One does he also does in like manner.\nAfter reasoning from the scriptures you can conclude that from your statements above, Jesus was not only recognizing his father as greater than he was but was giving his father praise and honor by giving him the credit. You can also conlcude that if you read the Bible nodenominationally you would not come to the conclusion that God is part of a trinity which is contradicted in the scriptures. Instead Christ is "one" with God (not literally) in that they are always in harmony with each other just like a husband and wife were to be one as in united together._Genesis 2:24. The trinity really blurs the relationship between God and Jesus and is a source of confusion for many. You can find more information on this particular subject from this link. http://www.watchtower.org/library/ti/article_04.htm
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No.\n\n‘Christ according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity, the Father being the first and the holy Ghost the third. Each of these three persons is God. Christ is his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither father nor son, but both. The son was begotten by the father, but existed before he was begotten--just the same before as after. Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young as his son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was an equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say before he existed, but he is of the same age as the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever can be more perfectly idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the Trinity.’\n\n - Col. Robert G. Ingersoll
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Revelation discusses an entity it calls “Babylon the Great”, which practices adulterous harlotry with earthly governments. Only false religion could lyingly claim and disgustingly betray a relationship with God by "selling" itself for governmental "favors"!\n\n(Revelation 18:3) all the nations have fallen victim, and the kings of the earth committed fornication with her\n\n(Revelation 14:8) Babylon the Great has fallen, she who made all the nations drink of the wine of the anger of her fornication!”\n\nThe Bible shows that all the many forms of false religion make up a conglomerate “Babylon the Great.” (Revelation 17:5) That name calls to mind the ancient city of Babylon, where false religion started up after the Flood of Noah’s day. Many teachings and practices now common in false religion originated long ago in Babylon. For example, the Babylonians worshiped trinities, or triads, of gods. Today, the central doctrine of many religions is the Trinity. But the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one true God, and that Jesus Christ is his Son. (John 17:3) The Babylonians also believed that humans have an immortal soul that survives the body after death and can suffer in a place of torment. Today, belief in the immortal soul or spirit that can suffer in hellfire is taught by most religions.\n\nSince ancient Babylonian worship spread throughout the earth, modern Babylon the Great can properly be identified as the world empire of false religion. And God has foretold that this empire of false religion will come to a sudden end. (Revelation 18:8) Do you see why it is vital that you separate yourself from every part of Babylon the Great? The Almighty God wants you to “get out of her” quickly while there is still time.—Revelation 18:4.\n\nTrue Christians can help you understand other details of the Scriptures. You can contact them at:\nhttp://www.watchtower.org
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The concept of the Trinity is often hard to grasp. In your question, you seem to show that you believe that the Trinity did not always exist. According to John 1, Jesus was with God, in God, and God from the begining, they were never seperate (except when Jesus took on the world's sins on the cross). in John 10, Jesus states that 'I and the father are one,' in John 10:30. The plainest biblical evidence for the Trinity falls in 1 John 5:7, where it says "7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. "\n\nEach Godhead (The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit) are God, and the same one God, yet they are different. They each have their distinctive roles, yet are one unit.
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According to the book "Religions in America"\n\nWhich has a question and anwer from each religion leadership.\n\nThe Baptist minister is quoted in saying that though it is an official church teaching,  they don't make a big deal out of it. (from memory)\n\nOne of the best reasons for not believing in the trinity I heard was from a baptist.\n\nHe said "He couldn't picture God in diapers"
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Clearly Jesus is the most powerful, most wise, most loving, most just creature who ever was and ever will be. But Jesus is a CREATION of the Almighty Sovereign of the Universe. So where is misinformation about the "Trinity" so common?\n\nThe Bible shows that all the many forms of false religion make up a conglomerate “Babylon the Great.” (Revelation 17:5) That name calls to mind the ancient city of Babylon, where false religion started up after the Flood of Noah’s day. Many teachings and practices now common in false religion originated long ago in Babylon. For example, the Babylonians worshiped trinities, or triads, of gods. Today, the central doctrine of many religions is the Trinity. But the Bible clearly teaches that there is only one true God, and that Jesus Christ is his Son. (John 17:3)\n\nSince ancient Babylonian worship spread throughout the earth, modern Babylon the Great can properly be identified as the world empire of false religion. And God has foretold that this empire of false religion will come to a sudden end. (Revelation 18:8)\n\nTrue Christians can help you understand other details of the Scriptures. You can contact them at:\nhttp://www.watchtower.org
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Many Christians begin to learn about the Trinity through knowledge of Baptism. This is also a starting point for others in comprehending why the doctrine matters to so many Christians, even though the doctrine itself teaches that the being of God is beyond complete comprehension. The Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed are structured around profession of the Trinity, and are solemnly professed by converts to Christianity when they receive baptism, and in the Church's liturgy, particularly when celebrating the Eucharist. One or both of these creeds are often used as brief summations of Christian faith by mainstream denominations.\n\nOne God\nGod is one, and the Godhead a single being: The Hebrew Scriptures lift this one article of faith above others, and surround it with stern warnings against departure from this central issue of faith, and of faithfulness to the covenant God had made with them. "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deuteronomy 6:4) (the Shema), "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (Deuteronomy 5:7) and, "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel and his redeemer the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." (Isaiah 44:6). Any formulation of an article of faith which does not insist that God is solitary, that divides worship between God and any other, or that imagines God coming into existence rather than being God eternally, is not capable of directing people toward the knowledge of God, according to the trinitarian understanding of the Old Testament. The same insistence is found in the New Testament: "...there is none other God but one" (1 Corinthians 8:4). The "other gods" warned against are therefore not gods at all, but substitutes for God, and so are, according to St. Paul, simply mythological or are demons.\n\nSo, in the trinitarian view, the common conception which thinks of the Father and Christ as two separate beings, is incorrect. The central, and crucial affirmation of Christian faith is that there is one savior, God, and one salvation, manifest in Jesus Christ, to which there is access only because of the Holy Spirit. The God of the Old is still the same as the God of the New. In Christianity, it is understood that statements about a solitary god are intended to distinguish the Hebraic understanding from the polytheistic view, which see divine power as shared by several separate beings, beings which can, and do, disagree and have conflicts with each other. The concept of Many comprising One is quite visible in the Gospel of John, chapter 17, verses 20 through 23.\n\nGod exists in three persons\n\nThe "Shield of the Trinity" or "Scutum Fidei" diagram of traditional Western Christian symbolism.This one God however exists in three persons, or in the Greek hypostases. God has but a single divine nature. Chalcedonians — Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants — hold that, in addition, the Second Person of the Trinity — God the Son, Jesus — assumed human nature, so that he has two natures (and hence two wills), and is really and fully both true God and true human. \n\nIn the Trinity, the Three are said to be co-equal and co-eternal, one in essence, nature, power, action, and will. However, as laid out in the Athanasian Creed, only the Father is unbegotten and non-proceeding. The Son is begotten from (or "generated by") the Father. The Spirit proceeds from the Father (or from the Father and through the Son ).\nIt has been stated that because God exists in three persons, God has always loved, and there has always existed perfectly harmonious communion between the three persons of the Trinity. One consequence of this teaching is that God could not have created Man in order to have someone to talk to or to love: God "already" enjoyed personal communion; being perfect, He did not create Man because of any lack or inadequacy He had.\nAnother consequence, acc
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A false doctrine not found in the Bible but made by man.
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JUST PRESENTING MY PERSPECTIVE.. NOT TO OFFEND MY CHRISTIAN FRIENDS HERE\n..\n\nThis is called as blind belief.\n\none person, God the Father + one person, God the Son + one person, God the Holy Ghost = one person, God the What? \n\n1+1+1=3 NOT 1\n\n1*3 =3 NOT 1\n\nIf God is the Father and also the Son, then He would then be the Father of Himself because He is His own Son. This is illogical!\n\nthey believe because they are told to believe blindly, and God forbids us to believe blindly.\n\nAnd do not follow (blindly) any information of which you have no (direct) knowledge. (Using your faculties of perception and conception, you must verify it for yourself. (In the Court of your Lord,) you will be held accountable for your hearing, sight, and the faculty of reasoning."[Quran 17:36]\n\n\n\n===========\n\nFURTHERMORE..........................\nThe Bible does not support the Christian belief in trinity at all. The word "Trinity" does not exist anywhere in the whole Bible, but it is mentioned in the Glorious Qur’an \n\n                        \nchapter 4 verse 171 \n"Say not ‘Trinity’: desist: \nIt will be better for you for \nAllah is one God."\n[Al-Qur’an 4:171]\n\n \n\nQuran says in Surah Maidah chapter 5 verse 73\n"They do blaspheme who say\nAllah is one of three\nIn a Trinity: for there is \nNo god except One God.\nIf they desist not\nFrom their word (of blasphemy),\nVerily a grievous penalty\nWill befall the blasphemers\nAmong them."
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There is no such thing as the Trinity, This is largest lie that Satan uses to keep people from knowing who the True God is, if he can do this, he's got you.\n\n“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?\n\nJesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?\n\n1st of all Jesus said: He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice. Joh 6:56, 57.\n\nJesus’ being called the “only-begotten Son” (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18) does not mean that the other spirit creatures produced were not God’s sons, for they are called sons as well. (Ge 6:2, 4; Job 1:6) However, by virtue of his being the sole direct creation of his Father, the firstborn Son was unique, different from all others of God’s sons, all of whom were created or begotten by Jehovah through that firstborn Son. So “the Word” was Jehovah’s “only-begotten Son” in a particular sense,\n\nJesus is also “Mighty God” and “Eternal Father.” This does not mean that he usurps the authority and position of Jehovah, who is “God our Father.” (2 Corinthians 1:2) “He [Jesus] . . . gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” (Philippians 2:6) He is called Mighty God, not Almighty God. Jesus never thought of himself as God Almighty, for he spoke of his Father as “the only true God,” that is, the only God who should be worshiped. (John 17:3;\n\n\nRev. 1:1; 3:14, RS: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him, why did God have to give the revelation to Jesus, if he is God? . \n\nDoes the Bible teach that none of those who are said to be included in the Trinity is greater or less than another, that all are equal, that all are almighty? Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)\n\nJohn 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”\n\n1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven. \n\nA person who is really seeking to know the truth about God is not going to search the Bible hoping to find a text that he can construe as fitting what he already believes. He wants to know what God’s Word itself says. He may find some texts that he feels can be read in more than one way, but when these are compared with other Biblical statements on the same subject their meaning will become clear. It should be noted at the outset that most of the texts used as “proof” of the Trinity actually mention only two persons, not three; so even if the Trinitarian explanation of the texts were correct, these would not prove that the Bible teaches the Trinity.
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In Christianity the trinity is belived to be a mathimatical annomaliy. Instead of 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 (Father, Son, and Holy spirit) it is actually 100% for all three. The debate over free will versus destiny has existed since time began. I believe in a divine creator and His rule over my life, but I also believe in free will. To me it is another annomaliy in our reality. I believe we have 100% free will, but that we are also 100% bound to our destiny. I don't think it's one or the other, but rather both in a very complete way. \n\nWith that in mind we are divided in our aims and goals based on our relation with that source. Since we all carry the same creator and that creator gave us free will, we all take different paths. One leads to that creator, others don't. I would love it if pluralism applied to reality, but since all faiths say they are THE one, then they all can't be right. Especially with Christianity. Christ said "I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the Father except through the Son." In that scripture He is saying that you can only take one path to reach God and no other.\n\nImagine a city street with millions of pedestrains. Half of them are going in one direction and the other half are going in the oppposite direction. They are bumping and shoving and stumbling on to each other. This is the human experience. One group is traveling towards the creator and what is good, the other half is traveling away from the creator to satisfy their pride. Either way you travel you will have conflict and you will bump into others with different aims, goals, and destinies. What really matters is that you travel with kindness, love, and in the right direction.\n\nlightbringer1979@yahoo.com\n\nGodspeed\n\nP.S. Just one note on a comment above. The Muslims and Christians actually DO worship the same God. And both believe in Christ as well. It's just that Christians believe He is the son of God.
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Study Modalism, not to be confused with Patripassianism.\n\nThe Trinity was a product of philosophy, and politics.  Theological Evolution.  You can see that early "trinitarians" rarely agreed with each other, and all held the 'heresy of sub-ordination'\n\nIt was not until the Council of Nicea that the trinity was given a 'solid' form that could be built upon by later councils.\n\nEusubius, from which we know most of what we know about Nicea, went to the council for the express purpose that modalists would not have a voice in the council, and they didn't.  He origianlly went to help arius, but had been misinformed about his beliefs, and then supported athanasius, since Esubius liked Origen's teachings.\n\nWhen studying modalism, remember that trinitarians oversimplify the doctrine and label it as patripassianism.  This comes soley from claims from thier ancient enemies such as Tertullian and Hippolytus.  \n\nModalism beleives that Jesus was the messiah, God manifested in the flesh, but that he WAS NOT God in three persons, but rather God in A person, who was the image of the invisible God.  The Logos, the plan God had in His mind since the Beginning.\n\nPatripassianism is the view that the Father died on the cross. I am not a modalist. God did not die on the cross, the human flesh died on the cross, not the divine Spirit that dwelt fully within Him.\n\nWere Praxeas and Sabellius patripassianists?  Really, NO ONE can say yes or no.  All we have are biased writings from thier enemies.  Historically, no one knows.\n\nThere is but ONE God.  Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.