Doesn't it seem when it comes to abortion, Religious arguments are irrelevant?
930625
Very true man only follows the laws of god when they are convenient.
1056721
I'd like to warn you that my opinion about abortion is based on reason, and very few people approach the abortion debate using reason. For most people, it's an emotional debate fueled by guilt. The emotions on the issue tend to run so deeply most people forget which is which. So I do apologize for any hurt feelings which result from my dealing with abortion reasonably.\n\nI support a woman's right to have control over their reproductive capacity. Abortion does not affect citizens (a person is not a citizen until they are born) or the intrinsic assets of the nation, so there is no legislative basis for there to be any laws taking rights away from a citizen (the pregnant woman). Two beings cannot occupy the same body with equal rights. One has to have veto power over the other. It would be revolting to not respect the rights of Life Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness for all citizens.\n\nFurthermore, abortion is not murder. Murder is the willful taking of one human's life by another human. I've seen pictures, and the fetus might look vaguely human, but physiologically a fetus is more like a salamander than a human. I know that sounds harsh, but there's also a degree to which deep down you know that it's true.\n\nNeurologically, the child isn't complete until it's a year old, and continues developing for about 25 years. So while it's still in the womb, it's certainly not a developed human. It's a part of our natural development for the brain to be undeveloped at birth because otherwise the head could never have fit through the opening. \n\nI asked the question "What makes humans distinct from other animals?" I received many interesting answers: The awareness that we are different from other animals, the ability to make rational decisions, the ability to suppress our animal nature, the ability to conceptualize good and evil, large brains, the ability to create art, the ability to question one's existence, speech, self improvement, and so on. At a glance, it's fairly obvious that a fetus does not have any of these qualities. In doing further research, I came across this website which I strongly recommend: http://7e.devbio.com/article.php?id=162\n\nA fetus has the potential of becoming human, but being human is a very special thing and a fetus isn't there yet. Being human is more than just a matter of our genetic make-up. It's about the way we think. Without the way we think, we are like any other animal. \n\nGiven that most people believe in the existence of a soul, It becomes an issue to consider when a person gets a soul. If you believe that only humans have souls, then the fetus doesn't have one because it's not yet human. It has the potential to become human, but it's not there yet. If you believe that all creatures have souls, then it has a soul to the degree to which a salamandar has a soul.As for what happens to the soul after death, If you believe in the polarity of Heaven and Hell, then the answer varies from person to person. If you believe in Karma, then that life served a purpose which it was there to do and can karmically celebrate that it's life accomplished what it was destined to accomplish.\n\nDon't get me wrong, I don't want anyone to think that I'm advocating killing babies. Babies are cute and respond well to people, kinda like puppies, and I am also opposed to killing puppies. In fact I have often been very supportive of all things child related and puppy related. But when it comes right down to it, and we consider the neural biology, certain facts become apparent. But I want to make it very clear that I am in no way advocating infanticide, which is much nicer than the bible which doesn't even mention infanticide despite the fact that it was commonly practiced at the time. In fact, until about a hundred years ago, I can't recall this ever having been much of an issue ever in the history of the world. Bu
660173
"2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life. Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you. \n\nMy frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth. " ( St. Charles Borromeo)<1> \n\nMy opinion is that it is murder.  I have a strange feeling that God created us at creation.  When God spoke to Abraham about his decendents being "Countless as the Stars"  is when God announced all life arrivals (the moment of conception).\n\nPlus, it seems that babies have imaginations.  When parents are in the 9 month waiting period, they do little stuff like play classical music and talk to the baby in the womb.  Many of the baby resurch does indicate that this can help the baby grow smarter and more social.  Now, baby research is indicating that a baby can be taught to 'Eat right' in the womb.  \n\nSadly, many abortions happen because the man, woman, or both do not take time to understand life.  It is all about their own 'Self-enjoyment'.  Many times, the woman wants the child, but is bullyed into an abortion when she realizes that the man does not love her the way she imagined him to love her.  This realization comes when he puts his fist through a wall, or starts cusing saying, "How dare you ruin my life" (again selfishness).  Even sadder is when a woman is rapped and has an abortion.  This fear drives her to an action she does not understand and typically the baby of a rape incident is the saving force for the woman many years down the line.\n\nIn short, my opinion of abortion is that it's killing the imagination of a fellow human being who is helpless and cannot protect themselves.  It is a waste!!!
746250
Another one of those questions concerning human behavior that can not really be answered...people just believe the way they do whether there is logical reasoning to it or not.\n\nI am not a religious person but I believe that Christian people who oppose abortion because as an adult, the potential abortee can help to convert other people to the prefered religion...heaven or hell is not the issue really.  If the child who could grow up to be another Billy Graham is aborted, who will preach the message of salvation?\n\nAhhh...I just gave an answer for the opposition...I'm pro choice.  I enjoy playing devil's advocate.\n\nOK.  So on the other hand, if we abort children who will not be loved or appreciated, we will also prevent higher levels of crime, satan worship and athiesm when a neglected child is grown and that child will automatically be rewarded with pie in the sky.\n\nThere, I've argued both sides equally...I'm still pro choice.\n\nWHO SAYS NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE DO THEY CONDONE ABORTION!!!!?????  Not only did the Bible condon abortion, they allowed children under the age of two to be killed at the parents, community or king's command.  Biblical parents could not only whip their children but were allowed by old testament law to stone them to death for disobedience!!!!  Knock off imaginary scripture!\n\nMore comment:  Nikki...killing people in war for oil is also playing God and disobey's god's command to not kill.  If killing is wrong for abortion, it is wrong for war too...It isn't anymore right to kill an adult than it is to kill a fetus...in my opinion killing adult fully developed human beings is even more wrong.  So much for "thou shalt not kill"
38556
Religion can have a huge impact on a person's political and "social issue" views.  As a VERY general rule conservatives tend to be active Christians or inactive Christians who still "believe" to a degree.  Liberals tend to reject religion or place much less emphasis on it.  If you watch debates on issues like abortion, prayer in school, the theory of evolution VS Intelligent Design, etc., you'll generally find (but certainly not always) that liberals tend to favor the the view taken by people who are not religious.  Hence they will favor abortion, keeping prayer out of school. the theory of evolution etc.
1157701
I'd like to warn you that my opinion about abortion is based on reason, and very few people approach the abortion debate using reason. For most people, it's an emotional debate fueled by guilt. The emotions on the issue tend to run so deeply most people forget which is which. So I do apologize for any hurt feelings which result from my dealing with abortion reasonably.\n\nI support a woman's right to have control over their reproductive capacity. Abortion does not affect citizens (a person is not a citizen until they are born) or the intrinsic assets of the nation, so there is no legislative basis for there to be any laws taking rights away from a citizen (the pregnant woman)\n\nFurthermore, abortion is not murder. Murder is the willful taking of one human's life by another human. I've seen pictures, and the fetus might look vaguely human, but physiologically a fetus is more like a salamander than a human. I know that sounds harsh, but there's also a degree to which deep down you know that it's true.\n\nNeurologically, the child isn't complete until it's a year old, and continues developing for about 25 years. So while it's still in the womb, it's certainly not a developed human. It's a part of our natural development for the brain to be undeveloped at birth because otherwise the head could never have fit through the opening. \n\nI asked the question "What makes humans distinct from other animals?" I received many interesting answers: The awareness that we are different from other animals, the ability to make rational decisions, the ability to suppress our animal nature, the ability to conceptualize good and evil, large brains, the ability to create art, the ability to question one's existence, speech, self improvement, and so on. At a glance, it's fairly obvious that a fetus does not have any of these qualities. In doing further research, I came across this website which I strongly recommend: http://7e.devbio.com/article.php?id=162\n\nA fetus has the potential of becoming human, but being human is a very special thing and a fetus isn't there yet. Being human is more than just a matter of our genetic make-up. It's about the way we think. Without the way we think, we are like any other animal. \n\nGiven that most people believe in the existence of a soul, It becomes an issue to consider when a person gets a soul. If you believe that only humans have souls, then the fetus doesn't have one because it's not yet human. It has the potential to become human, but it's not there yet. If you believe that all creatures have souls, then it goes to wherever souls go. If you believe in Karma, then that life served a purpose which it was there to do and can karmically celebrate that it's life accomplished what it was destined to accomplish.\n\nDon't get me wrong, I don't want anyone to think that I'm advocating killing babies. Babies are cute and respond well to people, kinda like puppies, and I am also opposed to killing puppies. In fact I have often been very supportive of all things child related and puppy related. But when it comes right down to it, and we consider the neural biology, certain facts become apparent. But I want to make it very clear that I am in no way advocating infanticide, which is much nicer than the bible which doesn't even mention infanticide despite the fact that it was commonly practiced at the time. In fact, until about a hundred years ago, I can't recall this ever having been much of an issue ever in the history of the world. But now, as infant mortality rates are at an all time low, and population is soaring out of control, now is the time in human evolution when people decide to stand up and say that abortion is wrong.\n\nChristians claim to take truth from the bible, and the bible makes no reference to abortion (which according to Wikipedia did exist in ancient times http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aborti
70180
That's the million dollar question isn't it.  In my experience, the people who don't have logical issues with their beliefs are believing in certain abstract aspects of the religion.  if you take any given part literally, your beliefs will come under attack all the time, because of different interpretations of that aspect.
615415
It does.  But what it should NOT cover is those people holding at signs that say "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" at a soldiers funeral.  But on abortion, it's covered.
286196
You raise a perfectly valid point, and one with which I happen to agree. That's why I tend to avoid answering abortion questions. When I do weigh in, however, it is always on the side of choice, simply because the alternative contradicts my fundamental philosophy regarding the rights of the individual in society. It makes not one iota of difference what I personally think of abortion, unless I am directly involved in some way (i.e., I'm the potential father). \n\nMore to the point, however, I don't believe this issue is ANYONE else's business but those parties directly involved. In other words, it NEVER should have become a political or moral issue in the first place. It is an entirely personal and (very) private issue. So, when male politicians and religious leaders jump in with both feet, that's when I get really angry. It could not be any LESS their business, and no amount of sanctimonious moralizing is ever going to change that fact.\n\nOne final point. I think every abortion is a tragedy, but not for the reasons the pro-life zealots say it is. The tragedy is that a young woman is going through personal hell and is making a choice that may well haunt her for the rest of her life. She may be having the abortion for any number of reasons (rape, incest, health dangers, personal choice, whatever) and she will doubtless suffer for whatever decision she makes. That sad fate is plenty bad enough without having perfect bloody strangers blundering in to voice their disapproval on top of all else. \n\nThe bottom line is that this is rightly her decision to make in the end. Sure, if there is a father present who actually wants this child, he should have a say in the outcome. And doctors clearly have some role to play here, too. But how did such a deeply painful and personal choice ever become fodder for hypocritical politicians and pious religious leaders (whose primary responsibility is to preach tolerance, surely)? It is madness, pure madness...
760758
But the base idea is still there that life has intrinsic value. Also, conside the passage in Hosea that speaks of abortion as a punishment for sin (Hosea 9:14) and the passage that shows God's disgust at the Ammorite practice of killing babies in the womb (Amos 1:13).\n\nGod makes it clear that life begins in the womb, that we are made in the image of God, and that human life is more valuable than animal life. Put all those together and you can see that God has a very negative view of abortion.
314177
Well, our reasoning is based on the idea that there isn't a simple answer for every situation. You can't just label abortion "mindless killing," because it might NOT be mindless. For example, what if you got raped? Would you like to go through the pain of birthing the baby and putting it up for adoption just for something that entirely WASN'T your fault? Don't you think that could breed depression and neurotic tendencies in anyone? Don't you think a kid separated from his mother or adopted experiences emotional pain? \nAbortion is done to guard against future harm. If there's a mother who knows she won't be able to care properly for a child, it would be merciful to both her and the growing fetus to undergo abortion. \n\nI do agree with you that the sanctity of a life should be preserved however. Abortion shouldn't be encouraged in women who have sex and think there's just an easy way out. It should be PERMITTED, however, because it is a RIGHT and because in the case of rape it is not a case of a woman having made a bad choice; it is a case of BAD LUCK.
262191
I'm a democrat and social liberal who is against abortion, but not on religious grounds.  I just firmly believe that individuals should not have their opportunities, including life, denied based on their parent's choices.  Often opponents of abortion imply that the mother should just give her child up for adoption if she is not capable, monetarily, mentally, or physically, of providing an adequate life for the child.  With that said, there are hundreds of thousands of children, eighty-percent of whom are black, who live in horrendous conditions in foster care without ever being adopted by a loving family.  What leaves me dumbfounded is the fact that quite a few of these christian pro-lifers are also firmly against the notion of allowing gays the opportunity to provide loving homes based on their conviction in jewish folklore.  Point being, if you are against abortion you should at least favor providing the best care possible for these children.
1162561
I think there is truly a moment of conception (or a day of conception if you wish), but what that means exactly is open to interpretation. The argument is more about when that group of cells becomes "human" or "is inhabited with a spirit" than merely about when cells began to divide. \n\nTo the strictest abortion opponents, not only does life begin at conception, but "consciousness" does. For others, "consciousness" begins somewhat later, perhaps when the heart starts beating, or when the fetus begins to resemble a human, or when the fetus can sense pain. \n\nIn other words, the discussion of when "life" begins would more intelligently be framed as when "consciousness" begins, but, as you point out, the strictest abortion opponents want to confuse the issue by linking the idea of human consciousness to the point at which life itself begins so as to push the consciousness issue back to its most elementary moment. And for some, it goes back even farther! After all, Catholics consider not only the fertilized egg as holy, but the sperm and egg themselves as holy, even prior to conception!\n\nI personally think late-term abortions should be illegal, but I see no problem with early term abortions performed when the fetus is only so many cells and has not as of yet developed the ability to sense pain.
162644
it wont change true christian minds. Abortion is wrong...period.  It doesnt even matter to me if they are born that way or not.  We are told not to engage in homosexual activity.  They might not be able to help their desires but they can control their actions.  Some people are genetically prone to be controlled by a substance ie, drugs or alcohol. Their desire for that will be very strong but that does not mean its ok to act on that desire.
484087
right to life extremists are arguing on grounds that once you become pregnant you are responsible for another life. it does not matter to them if you want, can care for, or are responsible enough to handle another life. they assume that any life is better than no life. obviously these people have never realized true poverty and abuse. not only do they want to control your life and choices, but they generally not interested in adopting any of the children from the pregnant women standing outside the abortion clinics. these right to lifers only want these women to know that they of course will go to hell because they are murderers, and the ignorance goes on. now, if you really wanna know how i feel, send me an email.
91099
Your equation of Hitler and someone seeking an abortion is totally illogical, just the sort of empty emotional appeal that Nazi propaganda perfected.  You may disapprove of a woman getting an abortion, but there's no way you can make that the moral equivalent of rounding up Jews and murdering them en masse.
396381
Interesting point, but somehow I don't think it will fly. As to your question, I think that life begins at conception, yet I do not believe that a fetus is viable until the point where it can survive outside the womb. I think that the fetus should be protected, but I am also pro-choice. If a woman decides to terminate a pregnancy, then it is her choice. I do not however, feel that women should use abortion as birth control. If one does not want to conceive, then they should prevent conception. There are too many ways to do so in this day and age. If a fetus is endangered by the mother's gross neglect, such as drug abuse, and the end result is the death of a viable fetus or damage to the child upon or after birth, then the fetus should be protected. Proving gross neglect however, is rather difficult.