I recently posted: "Can someone be persecuted if they don't exist?".   The response I recieved were...well, amazing.  \n\nOne write suggested that yes people were persecuted by Nero etal...but they were not followers of Jesus.  Christians didn't come on the scene until a couple hundred years later.  So if I understand the writer correctly....ROME called them Christians during the persecution, but they really were not Christians. 200 hundred years later they decided to BECOME Christians?!  Madness...\n\nAnother writer attempted to "scold" me for not `knowing history'.  This same writer misspoke the facts and said of Roman Historian Tacitus, "Tacitus wrote about Christians too, almost 100 years after he supposedly died. It means nothing."  Hmmm.  Tacitus lived from 56 AD - 117 AD Look it up for yourself.  Tacitus made mention that the FOLLOWERS of CHRIST were in ROME.  What is difficult to understand about this?  Sigh... I wish there was room to write more...
209471
People don't like to appear ignorant and so will post to get the 2 points even if they have no idea what they are talking about.\nNever let the truth get in the way of a good 2 points seems to be the motto of this place.\nWhat worries me are the people who can't tell the difference and are accepting answers from people who have no clue.  \nKeep up the good fight
150243
There you go again, treating these ancient legends as if they were literally true, in the sense that we hope our newspaper stories are true.  But then, even newspapers generally acknowledge when they have made an error, or said something that was mis-interpreted.  How can you expect an author so long dead as to be a Biblical author to have control over the mis-translations, mis-interpretations and outright distortions of subsequent centuries?  Christians and Jews should count themselves lucky they have any scripture at all.\n\nWell, Jews maybe not so much lucky as proud of their job of preservation, since their religion is centered on protecting the Torah.  Good work, fellas!  (It WAS the fellas, too; they only recently got women involved to any extent.)
497884
Christianity has a long history of converting people "by the sword".  Just because they've decided in recent years that talking people to death is a better way to convert them doesn't mean that they don't have a long and violent history.  As for users of this line seeming content with accepting that any and all Muslims are terrorists, it's been my observation that most of the people who use this line are incredibly narrow-minded and blind to anything beyond what they believe, so are you really surprised that they'd rather stereotype all Muslims than hear an honest depiction of another religion?
353441
Thanks for debunking that baby smashing issue.\n\nIt strikes me as odd that the God-haters can find none of this negative text to rant about  in the new testament.\nWonder why that is?\n\nYou suppose its because the ancient world was filled with horrible evil people and God had to be harsh with them because they were downright wicked?   Huge  armies roamed about, plundering and pillaging everything they found. Maybe God knew things were going to become more civilized (at least for a little while) after Jesus came with the new message. \n\nGee, Jesus taught turn the other cheek, pray for your enemies. That doesn't sound like a hateful God to me.\n\nToo bad atheists can't come forward to the 21st century. \nThey accuse Christians of being stuck in the year 1000BC and yet the only part of the bible they care to quote comes from the BC era.  \n\nWonder why that is??\nBile spewing, hatefilled God haters. Sad, so sad.
559022
This is what Dan Brown would have you believe, but there is no historical evidence to back him up.   In particular,\n\n1) The Council of Nicea (AD 325) did not even discuss the question of "canon" (that is, what belongs in the Bible)!!   In any case, well before this time there was widespread agreement on which books were accepted  (evidence going back to the early 2nd century).   There is NO evidence of authorities "inserting" or "removing" stuff.\n\n2) Not only did Constantine not foist his own view of the deity of Christ on others,  ALL those at this Council (representing the viewpoing of churches throughout the Roman world) agreed that Jesus was divine!   The only question was precisely how that idea was to be UNDERSTOOD.   \n\nAlso, contrary to various insinuations, the vote was not even close!   The Council of Nicea was almost unanimous in its final statement (two out of over three hundred disagreed... though again, they did NOT disagree that Jesus was divine!)
650780
As a Pagan, it really makes me sad to see my fellow Pagans take history out of context and ignore the parts that make our own predicessors look bad.\n\n#1. Christianity is full of Pagan concepts, much more than Jewish concepts- Virgin birth, child of a God born of a mortal woman, the trinity, all Pagan concepts. Therefore, why we feel the need to throw up an impenetrable wall, I don't friggin know!\n\n#2. Umbanda, Voodoo, and Santeria are three Christian/Pagan blends with HUGE followings that have been around since long before you were born to complain.\n\nI am not going to even address your dubious history except to point out that Pagans also killed Christians, and most of these killings were political in nature, rather than religious. \n\nThank you. Move along.
187548
Absolutely!  every one of them!no matter how people try to twist the facts to support what they believe it doesn't change the facts.  where did his body go? if he didn't raise from the dead.  oh i know....the deciples (who were so afraid that they ran for their lives) suddenly maned up and over took the 20 or so roman soldiers and took him.  and the fact that the roman soldiers weren't killed for admitting they fell asleep ( as was custom to be killed for falling asleep on duty) means nothing? and they 500 that saw him after the resurection?  and they thousands of first century christians who willingly went to their deaths saying that they saw him when all they has to do is admit that they lied or exagerated?  The fact is Most Jews are looking for the messiah to look and be a certain way and he didn't come like they thought he would.\nLook up Dr. Micheal Brown,  he is Jewish Christian,  if you can talk with him and still not believe then somthing is wrong with you
353128
That’s just what the original christians (the gnostics) believed (and still do). To them it was Jesus’ life and teaching which “saves”, not his suffering and death. All this god-men and miracles and eveyone’s-a-sinner and virgin births and crucified saviours of the world business was added by the Romans. Do some research, it’s all there.
127522
I think that whoever is to be blamed, it makes no difference, because Jesus HAD to die somehow in order for everyone to be saved.  If Jesus didn't die, we would all be condemned to Hell.  It so happens that the Jews did it.  Perhaps they did not get the brunt of the blame.  But does it matter?\n\nTo some of the above posters, yes, there have been many injustices that have occurred at the hands of Christians as well as many other religious folks.  But that does not change the basic fact that Jesus died for our sins and that we are human.  We make mistakes.  But God does not make mistakes.  Everything happens for a reason.  And God knows infinitely more than you or I, whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not.\n\nTo another poster--Heron By The Sea...your logic is good but some of your facts are wrong.  Yes, Rome did control the land where the Jews lived.  But they knew little about Jesus.  They were the most powerful civilization in the world...and do you really think they feared anyone?  Much less one man (Jesus) and his movement that polarized Jews of His day?  I don't think they really gave much of a d@mn about Jesus, OR the Jews, for that matter.  Pilate basically did not care anything about the trial until the Sanhedrin and the Pharisees said that Jesus claimed to be "King of the Jews."  Once he heard that, if Jesus was really a threat to Rome, do you think he would offer to release Jesus?  I don't think he would.  At that point, the Jews wanted Barabbas released.  So yes, it was the JEWS who wanted Jesus dead.\n\nSecondly, the Bible was NOT altered by Rome or Romans.  The Bible is a collection of books that were selected for the truth and sincerity and accuracy of the faith.  Yes through time there are many different translations today, but I would say the major translations have not been altered to the point where such central ideas have been warped and distorted beyond their original meaning and truth.  I see that you are a religious studies major, so I am not going to fully dismiss everything you say, but based on our Christian faith, God would not allow such things to be distorted (that's where the Holy Spirit comes in).
469818
to those that quoted Tacitus his accuracy on the subject is quite suspect considering that he was not even born until 20 years after the supposed death of Jesus. \n\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Jesus\n\n\nalso the description of Jesus by Josephus has been proven to been corrupted by Christian scribes especially when compared to copies kept in Muslim lands.
515491
Where was the "Christ" in Christianity during the witchhunts? During the several Crusades? Where was the "Christ" in Christianity during the horrific Inquisitions, where non-Christians, Jews, Muslims, homosexuals, pagans were brutally tortured in the name of Jesus, and slaughtered by the thousands? And the list goes on, to the Native Americans, who were forced to convert  or die.\n\n"Christian" extremists may have claimed "Christ", but it should be obvious that "Christ" would never have claimed them. They don't care, though. They think they own "God" and can make "God" anything they want "him" to be.
355854
Yes it is!!!!!!!!!!!\nIf they are Christian because of Jesus the Christ, they must be all sinners, because Jesus preached and talked about non violence (among many other things), and lived according to that as well...\nOf course , what do we know about it?, since ever since Constantine "embraced" Catholic Religion, they´ve been chopping off the Bible to make it more "convenient" to their interests.....\nThey don´t even care about what they call the "Gnostic Gospels" that have so much info about the real thing instead.\nJesus teachings were about Love, forgiveness, understanding, loving your neigbors as you love yourself.If you loved your neigbors just as you love yourself,you wouldn´t wish dead penalty for them, because that would make absolutely no sense.\n(Would you wish death penalty for yourself or your family?)\nPeople should remember every day which one is the True Jesus , take a look inside and listen to their own hearts and sould isntead of letting Governments and huge Multinational Corporations brainwash their brains.\nUnconditional Love, folks! Practise some more!\n(Gosh, what a great discussion/ conversation we would have if you were here!)
670591
Ban Chick Tracts? Are you nuts?\n\n Where else can you get something that funny for FREE? Those things are a riot. My favorite are the ones about catholics note being real Christians(TM). That chick guy should be kissing the catholics feet for keeping the Jesus myth alive as long as they did. It cost them a lot of money and they murdered plenty of innocent people so he could eventually become an angry Protestant. If it was not for the catholics, the chick guy would probably worship Mithras and nobody would have ever heard of Jesus.\n\n Have you seen the ones about witchcraft? Hilarious! They are written by someone with a crazy imagination that seems to be jealous about witchcraft.\n\n It is better to let this guy operate in the open than to ban his brand of hate speech humor.
629559
Man, I understand where your coming from.  I've studied other religions and looked into this Jesus and I've asked the same question and many more.  Jesus is special for a number of reasons.  Yes, there were many people who crucified as saviors before and after Jesus.  We still get people popping up claiming divinity.  The real question isn't so much as is Jesus the savior because he got a few books written about him, its why were there books written about him in the first place.  The most basic point anyone can show you is this...its not that Jesus died, its that he rose after his death.  And there is more evidence that he did actually rise 3 days later and not just Biblical evidence.  First off, the fact that the Roman leaders and armies wanted him gone, because it was the time of Pass Over which is the celebration of Jews getting out of Egypt, and at this time of year, the Jewish community gets a little out of hand, for the are now under the Roman rule.  So when Jesus comes in, and he's claiming to be their savior...the crowd thinks he's going to be a king and run the Romans out.  So, if Jesus didn't rise again, why did the Romans say nothing?  Why did the Jewish Pharaseas (please excuse my spelling) who pushed to have him killed, not stand up and say..."he's still dead!"?  What was it that gave Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John the confedance to step out of their hidding, for fear they were going to be crucified, and boldly speak of a living God, Jesus...and welcome their death?  These questions may seem weak, but if you really think about them and look at the history and try to get in the minds of all these people...only one thing makes since...Jesus is not dead...he rose, becoming a savior that no one expected, but a savior from ourselves.  Thats why Jesus is special, the others were saviors...they were fanatics.  There are a lot of other reasons why Jesus is special, but I honestly have the feeling that if this thought doesn't at least make you rethink the history, then anything else I say, will truly be pointless.
104651
Time to crack open the history books there...\n\nWhen the Roman Empire adopted Christianity as the state religion, they made it illegal to participate in any other religion (to control the population...that message of "render unto Ceaser..."). When new areas were conquered, the leaders, both secular and religious, were eliminated by conversion...accepting Christianity and the dominion of the Roman Empire, or dying. In order to control the conquered people, the old faiths were made illegal. \n\nNow, add in mysogeny. Males sought to control and enslave women. A woman who knew herbology and had a healing hand was a threat to male doctors' practice, or who was 'wise' was a threat to the role of the priests as givers of moral rules and advice, etc. Many of the old faiths were matriarchal, as well, and the knowledge of wise decisions, of herbology/medicine, etc. were passed woman-to-woman.\n\nWicca stems from European nature worship prior to the controls placed there by patriarchal Christianity introduced during martial conquests by the Romans (and their splinter kingdoms after the fall of the empire).\n\nAdd in the mistranslation of "do not suffer a poisoner to live" (in the Hebrew) with "do not suffer a witch to live" (that tie-in to herbology, again)...\n\nSo, modern Wiccans tap deep-rooted generational fears by Christians raised in the ancient prejudice against the "old ways." Part of it is the unfortunate choice of self-naming modern celebrants of ancient pre-Christian pantheons/nature awareness to call themselves witches.\n\nGood luck on your report!
455439
Wow...like some prozac?  Calm down, son.\n\nI'm a Christian.  Were I an atheist, my argument would be that nobody debunked Christ in 33 AD because there was nothing to debunk...as he did not exist.  I would argue that in the 50's there were just letters written from one person to another or to a group, and that it was a cult doing it.  Why bother debunking it?  By 100 AD, you have so many groups persecuting these Christians that you don't have to bother debunking...the Romans and Hebrews will kill them anyway.\n\nAgain, I'm a Christian...but the arguments are easy.
280950
Whoops, I mean true!\n\nJesus came down on the Religious leaders with Righteous Indignation. He told them that they were "Whitewashed Tombs", and that they were going to Hell!\n\nMatthew 23:26-28\n\n26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.\n\n27 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.\n\n28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.\n..........................................................\n\nAlso, He healed on the Sabbath, against the Religious Law.\n\nJohn 5:15-17 \n\nThe man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well.\n\nSo, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him.\n\nJesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working."