What is the rule, if you are female it is legal to kill your unborn ofspring, but if you are male it is murder. And dont even say that the fetus is a part of the mothers body because that is like saying the earth is flat. It has long been disproved. So should we not make it legal for a woman to kill her children up until say 2 years old? I meen they are still dependant on her right?
210001
Actually, I think both should be illegal!!!! \nAt what point these days does society think that life begins? It seems that answer is directly related to the value the mother puts on the child. \n\nIf it's not a baby....you're not pregnant!
137635
Blingme - Her question was stated correctly. She is essentially trying to determine why states allow abortion if it is illegal to kill a human being. And if a state charges a murderer with two murders for murdering a pregnant woman, what is the exact definition of life. \n\n1) Either a baby is alive and the two murders is correct. In this case, abortion should be illegal; or,\n\n2) A baby is not alive and only one murder should be charged. In this case, abortion would be okay.\n\nShe is pointing out a convenient catch-22 in the abortion debate.\n\nEDIT: bree123 - I do not believe she is calling out the hypocrisy of the double homicide law. She is calling out the hypocrisy of abortion.\n\nAnd citing the ACLU does NOT make me put a lot of trust in your judgment. It is a little like me citing all the evidence the National Right to Life cites proving that life starts at conception. You aren't going to buy that. Any evidence cited should be from a) a disinterested party, or b) a source that gives BOTH sides of the argument - like my initial assessment of her statement above.\n\nSource(s): Debate 101.
481921
No, I doubt there's a "special law" for it. It would be considered murder, homocide or voluntary manslaughter.\n\nBut if the pregnant woman kills her own child after birth, then there's a law for that.
26252
They should not be allowed to have an abortion unless it is to save the life of the mother. I understand accidents happen but practice safe sex and if you still get pregnant give it up for adoption. Killing your own baby in an effort to ease the problems in you life is sick and wrong. It is a sad reflection on our society that we have made this discusting act into a simple procedure like getting a tooth pulled.\nFurthermore why is the biological father not a part of this choice.\nThese pro baby murder wack jobs have just gone to far. Then they have the nerve to call it pro choice! The choice was made when you decided to have sex. Unborn children should recieve the same protection as any other citizen.\nI like your question.\nHowever it damn near has my blood boiling. I have both a daughter and a son. The fact that there are doctors out there that would do this without my consent to my child is discusting. I find it hard to believe the liberals have led this country that I love so much down a path of disolving morals.
624970
Three separate points in time, so three separate issues.\n\nFirst, sex and conception. Both parties have the right to make decisions on whether they are being involved. Non-consensual sex is called rape, whether it's male or female. \n\nThird (yes, I'm skipping second for now), there is after birth. Again, both parents are equally involved and have the same rights and obligations. Both are liable for child support, based on what they can afford.\n\nSecond, we have the period during pregnancy, after conception but before live birth. Let's split this into two separate periods.\n\nIn the last few months, called post-viability, the fetus is capable of living on its own (with medical help). So, who has rights during this time. The two lives directly involved -- the fetus and the mother. The father is not directly involved, since he's not contributing anything to helping the fetus grow. So, he has no rights to affect this part of the process.\n\nSo far, during these stages, there's no real argument about who is involved, and whose rights are at issue.\n\nThe argument comes during the first part of the pregnancy, pre-viability where there is just an embryo that cannot survive on its own. Because it cannot survive on its own, it is not an independent life. It's irrelevant for this discussion whether it's a human life at all or not, because whether it is or not, it's not an independent life. Thus, it does not have independent rights. So, the only person directly involved with independent rights is the mother.\n\nNow, many state governments say that even if the embryo does not have independent rights, the state can still assert rights on its behalf. Thus, you have arguably two parties involved -- the mother and the state (on behalf of the potential future baby). \n\nHowever, in no other legal situation anywhere does a possible future potential person or controversy merit legal protection. Maybe this situation is unique, and special rules are in order. Maybe it's not. \n\nBut either way, the sperm-donor is not directly involved during the first few months of the pregnancy (after conception), and so has no rights. Also, no legal obligations during this period.\n\nSo the only question is whether the government should be allowed to assert rights, on behalf of the future potential fetus. And personally, I don't trust the government to make those kind of decisions, so I'd rather leave it up to the mother alone during that time.
601537
I can not understand,  if it's a woman's "choice" to have a baby, why should a man be held responsible for the 'fetus', if the woman 'chooses' to turn it into a baby?\n\nIf they are going to use the argument that it isn't a baby, they should not be able to change that argument later.\n\n(for the record, I think its a baby, and I think both parties are responsible for it.  I am just pointing out the hypocrisy of their logic)
173226
AMEN!!!! Abortion is killing. Most people aren't aware that the little heart the female is carrying starts beating 23 days after conception. Yes 23 DAYS!!! It is murder. Adoption should be mandatory and be made law for those mothers who feel they can't care for the child they conceived. It is far more responsible to give the child a chance of life then to kill it because they couldn't keep their zippers done up.
242563
That quote you have posted is just wrong in so many ways.  Why would any woman be so stupid as to degrade herself in saying men are not responsible for pregnancies and other parental issues?  Sex is not something that deserves punishment! It happens in nature, people were intended to do it, and there is nothing wrong with it.  NO ONE should be punished for acting on natural instinct.  I just hate it when people always act like it is so wrong--it's not! And as far as the pregnancy thing goes--people make mistakes.  Although you may be responsible and careful, it can happen.  It's just like driving a car: you may be a good driver, but it doesn't mean that you'll never crash.  Abortion is an upsetting thing, but it's just not practical to make it illegal.  Women can't always provide the support a baby will need, and I personally don't think it's up to men in the government to make decisions about abortion.  Men don't get pregnant, so why should they be able to decide? They have no basis for judgement.  As far as this Karen lady goes, why would she act to stop her own access to her rights? It just doesn't make sense to me.  Anyway, after that long rant, the answer to your question is NO.
549729
I’m agnostic and pro-life, but would not have abortion completely outlawed.  Lt me say upfront that I do not judge or blame any individual for having an abortion, what ever the reason.  Society has made it completely acceptable and it is the fault of all of us collectively, not the individual.   Unfortunately, people use rare exceptions which end up making abortion common place and a method of birth control.  How does that happen?  Just like the rape and incest exceptions they also use abuse by a parent as a reason for not having parental notification.  If you really want to think of all of the rare exceptions out there then there are just as many damaging one’s from making abortion easy as from outlawing or limiting it.\n\nStarting with your example of a girl who is raped by her father, it could be traumatic for her to go on with a pregnancy, but if she doesn’t isn’t it more likely that her father will continue to rape her?  If she were pregnant her father could be caught.  If the evidence is destroyed he can continue to rape her.  Also isn’t it at least as likely that a girl who was raped could be traumatized by the “decision” to kill the baby?   Even if she isn’t at the time she makes the “decision” she could be at a later time.  I’ve known many people (way too many) who have had abortions and most of them regret it to some degree or another.  I’ve never known anyone who regretted having their child even the one’s who  gave them up for adoption (they might regret that they gave them up, but not that they had them).\n\nThe abuse by a parent for the parental notification is another common exception people use to make abortion free and easy.  People who use this exception don’t really understand abusive homes.     I have had close friends who lived in extremely abusive homes to the point of being beaten to near death.  The thing with an abusive parent is, it has nothing to do with what the child does. Anything and everything triggers the abuse.  People, who think that the child gets beaten because of their actions, don’t understand abuse.   If an abusive parent finds out about a pregnancy, will they most likely abuse?  Yes.  But they will find another reason if the child doesn’t get pregnant.  Having an abortion will not stop a child from getting abused.  In addition, it is very rare for both parents to be abusive and the non abusive one is usually very protective and even encourages the beatings to be transferred to them.  The non abusive parent is the one the child would tell.  In the extremely rare case where both parents are abusive, most parental notification laws give an exception for a judge to overrule the requirement.  \n\nI hope you don’t take offense to my answer and I hope it doesn’t come across as critical of you personally or of your intentions.  I know this is a sensitive topic for people.   I used to feel the same way as you do, until I had a child and felt the miracle of the whole process.  It made me start questioning things more and not buy into the position being fed by the media and by pro-abortion groups that have a larger agenda than women’s rights.
455806
I think you're on the right track here in pointing out the hypocrisy of the "personal freedom" argument that baby killers use. How is killing an unborn child in support of the CHILD'S freedom? They always come back with "but it's not a child, it's a clump of cells". That's all they have, but I think they do know better in their hearts. They're just in denial, which is really sad.\n\nBTW, it is also not hypocrisy to be anti-abortion but pro-death penalty. Those folks who believe this are making the distinction between the taking of innocent life vs. taking the life of a person guilty of the heinous crime of murder. However, I personally do not support the death penalty either in ANY case. All people were put on earth for a reason and it should be left up to God to work his magic in their lives and help them come to see why their actions were wrong and change their hearts. They should be put in jail for life simply to protect the public from them in case they never change.\n\nEuthanasia is wrong as well. Those who are not inside a person's head to know for sure what they are thinking and what their wishes are should not make a decision to actively or passively take a person's life. Who are they to make the judgment that this person's life is no longer worth living?\n\nAnyway, I like that you are standing up for what you believe in. It's important that we all do that, no matter how persecuted we are by those who would silence us.
500361
There is no difference other than the one you pointed out--if the baby is not wanted, it is not considered murder.  Imagine if we applied this same logic to others who are "unwanted" in our society.
174786
Interesting point, but somehow I don't think it will fly. As to your question, I think that life begins at conception, yet I do not believe that a fetus is viable until the point where it can survive outside the womb. I think that the fetus should be protected, but I am also pro-choice. If a woman decides to terminate a pregnancy, then it is her choice. I do not however, feel that women should use abortion as birth control. If one does not want to conceive, then they should prevent conception. There are too many ways to do so in this day and age. If a fetus is endangered by the mother's gross neglect, such as drug abuse, and the end result is the death of a viable fetus or damage to the child upon or after birth, then the fetus should be protected. Proving gross neglect however, is rather difficult.
303699
14 year olds are minors and shouldn't be able to choose to have any major surgery without consent from their parents, including abortions. Abortion is not a harmless removal of tissue from a woman's body. It's the ending of a human life, plain and simple. To allow her to choose to end her baby's life for any selfish reason (and they're all selfish reasons) is very wrong. Abortion also can cause a number of health complications and emotional trauma. Of course so can raising a child, but countless people are waiting for a child to call their own and would be happy to raise hers. She CHOSE to have sex, she needs to deal with the consequences of it. She is not a victim - she made the choice. Many adoptive parents will even pay for the entire pregnancy and birth and will help make her comfortable as possible throughout. Bottom Line: There is NO excuse for murder.
43492
I don't believe anyone has a right to dictate what a woman should or shouldn't do with her body, including governments or churches.  Adoption is an option too, but having an abortion does NOT make you a bad person.  If anyone were being honest, they'd admit there is already too many people around today anyway, so creating another child to put into the system just doesn't seem like all that great a solution.  \n\nAnd my daughter was born Nov 26th 2003, and her mom and I split up a year ago, and were never married.  And I sleep just fine, knowing that the only reason my daugther is alive today is because her mom and I decided to give it a shot.  So I have all the right to be pro-choice I want.  :P\n\nOK, I had to edit this after all the god-freaks started going off.  Where the hell do you people get off preaching to people or passing judgement?  Didn't your god say Judgement is Mine?  Well, practice what you preach, you ignorant, hypocritical, blind fools.  If we want to believe what you do, we'll join your cult.  I don't go to your little sundy circle-jerk sessions trying to convince you that you're all a bunch of moronic sheep to believe all that crap.  You are entitled to believe what you want, just don't get any on me...  \n\nAnd as for those of you who quote morality, who's to say your moral stance is the right one?  Morally speaking, the muslims think all the women in the US need to be covered head to toe at all times, be completely subsurvient to the men in their lives, and do as their told, NO QUESTIONS.  To do otherwise is immoral in their culture.  So you can take your 'moral' arguement, and choke on it, because its all a matter of personal perception.   \n\nSo anyone who can't support their arguement without a moral or religious basis has no business posting it, or is just being ignorant, or spouting off what they've been trained to like the good little lemmings they are.
142020
To all those saying that abortion is killing an innocent child and the death penalty is killing a murderer, making it justified. \n\nAbortion is not killing a reasoning human being with cognitive skills. Yes, it can potentially become one, however, by using that argument, one can say that by not having sex with your spouse at this very moment, you are wasting innocent eggs and sperm, thus killing potential life. The line can be drawn anywhere. The bottom line is, until the society can provide a safe and harmonious upbringing and support for the potential child, abortion is by all means justified. It is quite easy to be a male in a nice little house with a backyard and a church next door and say that abortion is wrong. But you see, not everyone is in that comfortable position. \n\nAs for the death penalty, haven't I heard some Christian people speak of this "thou shall not kill" deal every now and then? So it is alright to take life as a form of punishment? Revenge, is that what we've scooped down to? As Mr Gandhi put it so eloquently, "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". Not even speaking of the other side of the death penalty, i.e. the victims. At least one person a year is wrongly executed in the United States. At least one. Every year. That's some 10 people's lives you destroy there every year. Think about it. \n\n\n\n\n\nEdit, as a response to comments posted below: \n\nSee, but that's where we differ. I don't see abortion as equal to murder. I just don't, because in my opinion, it's not killing. See my argument above in the second paragraph. You just can't draw a line. Second of all, so if abortion is to be illegal, are YOU willing to take care of the child? Apparently you are. An ideal world is one thing, I too wish there was no need for abortion, but the real world is something different. Let's abolish the REASON for abortion, not abortion itself. \n\nBy the way, in my arguments, I am speaking about abortion where the mother's health is not endangered. If it is, then abortion is justified even in the ideal world. \n\nAs for the death penalty, I am sticking to my argument. The ones that kill for killing are just as bad as the killers. If it is right to murder for murder, then, basically, anyone can murder you, as you support the death penalty, making you co-responsible for a couple of deaths, a lot of them innocents. And then, anyone can murder your murderer. And so on... Killing as a form of punishment is quite the barbaric practice that has no place in the modern world. And if you look at the list of countries that still implement the death penalty, you'll see that I'm quite right on that point.
464484
Well Dr. Lifemaker, may I ask why you are so bitter?  Do you agree that murder is wrong?  Is your argument simply that you do not believe a fetus is life?\nI just wondered because you seemed really angry in your answer, but did not explain your views.\n\nIn my view, I agree that abortion is murder.  I had a choice once, when I was a teenager.  Thank God and all that is decent in the world, I decided on adoption, not murder.\n\nI can honestly say that I have never murdered anyone.
559976
First of all, i don't think anyone is pro-abortion...they are prochoice, as in its for you to say one way or the other.  \nMe personally, i believe it is murder, but there are such things as justifiable homicide.  I agree with you that most of the time women have abortions for less than good reasons....but who decides whats justifiable?  you? me? the govt?  It has to be each woman that decides for herself; she is the one that has to live with the decision and face whatever God she believes in.  What may seem like an inconvenience to you, could be lifealtering for her.  the best that can be done, is for the gov't to make sure the procedure is available and safe...after that the rest is up to the woman.\nbut it is murder, like killing in war is murder, yet many people don't think soldiers are going to hell for killing in war.  \nnote that abortions have been going on since the beginning of time, whether legal or not.  most of the time when there is not a doctor available to perform the procedure, both the fetus and the woman die.  Now if its senseless to lose the fetus, wouldn't it be doubly so to lose both?  just because its illegal, doesn't mean its not going to happen.  \nwhile i do believe that its a woman's choice, i also believe that its murder, and i also believe that if i were in those shoes, i wouldn't be able to make the choice to have an abortion without seriously extenuating circumstances, like my death, a brutal rape (which shouldn't result in pregnancy very often anymore due to the morning after pill) or some very serious disease the child has.