police traffic driving michigan speeding
Can a court uphold a traffic ticket for speeding in school zone if the sign was blocked by a truck and not possible to be seen?
<p>I was given a ticket for speeding in a school zone. I was unaware that there was a school zone because as I was traveling in the left lane there was a rolling road block of several trucks that were turning onto a street right after the sign. The sign is a flashing light that says &quot;speed limit 25 when flashing&quot; and I had no knowledge the sign existed because it was impossible to have seen it with the trucks that obstructed it from my view. Is there any case law about this or what would I say to the judge to explain that I am not liable as it was not possible to have known due to the sign being blocked. After I was ticketed I went into the neighborhood and found the trucks (there were several large moving trucks, so I had reason to believe they were still there loading or unloading) and I took a picture showing them and also the street sign was in the picture showing the location. I also had another person in a different vehicle several hundred feet behind me that was able to see the sign and was a witness to the trucks creating a rolling road block. This is in Michigan if it makes a difference. Thanks!</p>
<p>Edit: The road I was traveling on the speed limit is 45mph which is what I was doing. There was a single sign that flashes a light only when the school zone is in effect. There was no reason to believe it was not &quot;prudent&quot; to travel at 45. There was also no reason to believe there was a school zone as it was impossible to see the ONLY sign indicating such. I have a witness traveling behind me that can contest to the inability to see such a sign and I went back and took pictures of the moving trucks in the neighborhood to show what it was that prevented me from seeing the sign. The only way for anyone to know there was a school zone in effect was seeing a flashing light which was not visible with the trucks traveling next to me.</p>
<p>By rolling road block I did not mean any sort of construction vehicle or anything such that would warn of any changes or anything. It was simply several trucks in the right lane which obstructed my view of a sign on the other side of the trucks. Not like the trucks that have flashing lights behind workers filling potholes or anything. Just a giant vehicle directly to my right that prevented me from seeing the only sign informing me the speed limit had changed.</p>

<h2>If the judge is kind, yes</h2>
<p>However, this is at the discretion of the judge. Even if the judge believes every word you say, you still broke the law.</p>
<p>The speed limit in Michigan is “a careful and prudent speed not greater than nor less than is reasonable and proper” and that is not “greater than that which will permit a stop within the assured, clear distance ahead.” (MCL 257.627(1)). The posted speed limit is an upper bound on what is “careful and prudent”.</p>
<p>Given you description of trucks obstructing your view, it’s arguable that the speed you were travelling at was not “careful and prudent”.</p>
<p>The speed limit in school zones may be set at “not more than 20 miles per hour less than the speed limit normally posted but shall be not less than 25 miles per hour.” (MCL 257.627a(2)). And the speed limit on a local street in an area zoned for residential use is 25 mph “unless another speed is fixed and posted.” If you were in a residential street, the school zone speed is no different from the normal speed - the lights just serve to warn drivers that children are about.</p>
<p>Finally, you are responsible for knowing the law. You are on that road at that time, it’s your duty to know what the posted limit is as well as determining what speed is “careful and prudent”. It doesn’t matter if it’s hard to know, the law presumes you know it.</p>
<p>All that said, if you catch the judge in a good mood, they might give you a break. You don’t have a legal right to one so ask, don’t demand.</p>

<p>The flashing sign does not create the legal obligation, the statute (<a href="http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(wxhmx5ueavdzhstya2cfvne0))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&amp;objectname=mcl-257-627a" rel="nofollow noreferrer">MCL 257.627a</a>) does. The crucial terms &quot;Regularly scheduled school session&quot;, &quot;School&quot; and &quot;School zone&quot; are defined without reference to any environmental markings. Para 2 defines the school zone speed limit in the statutorily-defined context, without reference to markings or notification. There is a requirement to post notification that a school is an &quot;All Year School&quot;, if that is the case.</p>
<p>Para 6 says that</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Louvered signs, digital message signs, and flashing lights may be
installed to supplement or replace permanent signs required under this
section. Signs erected and maintained as required under this section
shall conform to the Michigan manual on uniform traffic control
devices.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>But such a sign is not required (may, not shall), and there is no provision that such a sign overrides the statutory obligation. The flashing sign is a helpful additional indicator, and not a statutory trigger.</p>

<h2>Possibly</h2>
<p>I am a civil engineer by trade, but do not have much traffic experience myself. But I do know that the installation of roadway signage is actually very carefully prescribed by something called the <a href="https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices</a>. It is for this reason that, in general, you do not have a a litany of different stop sign designs (there actually are several, but they all follow the same rules regarding shape and dimensions; but ultimately are all a red octagon).</p>
<p>That said, I am aware that when municipalities install new signage, they are obligated to ensure the signage is installed in conformance with the latest version of the MUTCD. Failure to do so might serve as a defense in a legal proceeding because there is an obligation on the municipality to create consistent signage for drivers.</p>
<p>Presuming the MUTCD at the time of installation obligates additional signage beyond just the single flashing sign described in your question might serve as a valid defense because whatever local ordinance was passed to create the school zone would have been contrary to the federal requirements (since MUTCD is published pursuant to 23 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Part 655, Subpart F).</p>

<p>Depends. A traffic control sign that is not displayed in a proper fashion is no traffic control signage at all.</p>
<p>&quot;Any official traffic control device placed pursuant to the provisions of this chapter and purporting to conform to the lawful requirements pertaining to such devices &quot;</p>
<p>e.g. Don't put a one way traffic control device in the middle of a block.</p>
<p><strong>However</strong>, if the last sign you saw was 45 mph, and there was a rolling road block, and you kept traveling at 45 mph, most likely this would not be considered a prudent speed. I presume this roadblock had signs and flashing lights as well, yes?</p>
